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Heat-up week for The Ultimate Fighter with Kimbo Slice
By Zach Arnold | September 14, 2009
Bloody Elbow (Randy Couture central) says we should expect Couture vs. Brandon Vera at UFC 105 (Manchester). Speaking of Couture, he will be in a new movie called The Expendables with… Governator Arnold, Sylvester Stallone, Bruce Willis, Mickey Rourke, and Jet Li.
Kimbo Slice is on a major promotional tour to hype up the launch of The Ultimate Fighter, which starts this week. Now that it’s football season in the States, the hype for ex-NFL players on TUF this season is picking up. TUF contestant Marcus Jones says UFC is tougher than the NFL.
Speaking of the new season of TUF, there will be an Ultimate Fight Night event preceeding the show on Spike TV. Meet the company sponsoring UFC’s event in Oklahoma City.
An interview with Cole Miller.
Boxing Scene hires UFC.com editor Thomas Gerbasi.
According to MMA Unlimited, Dan Hardy has dumped his management team. MMA Unlimited also has an interview with Frank Trigg.
Lyle Beerbohm wants a title match in Strikeforce.
Topics: Media, MMA, StrikeForce, UFC, Zach Arnold | 34 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
Not really interested in the Vera-Couture matchup, but it seems like everyone else in the mid to upper tier of LHWs is already booked except Forrest, Thiago Silva and Wanderlei.
My ability to feel bad about Couture getting beaten senseless depreciates by the day. Its gonna be amazing to see people talk about what a huge win it was for Vera to take out Couture also, since apparently we still cannot talk about him being old or shot.
Come to think of it, Vera would then have wins over Mir and Couture. Would he be a top 5 heavyweight? LOL.
Why can’t Kimbo just fight Dana White?? I’d pay if that was on a PPV and I never buy UFC’s crap.
Couture/Vera is a very good free show main event. Not sure where all the negativity is coming from. If it was on PPV I might understand, but not with it being on SpikeTV.
The match-up is perfect in terms of looking forward. It will set the winner up to make a run for the title.
There is also a huge difference in beating the Mir of 2 years ago and the one of today. It hardly has any relevence on anything. If it did, shouldn’t Vera be ranked above Noguiera? See, it makes no sense. Just more of the same old negative from Alan.
Its better as a free show main event than a PPV main, that’s for damn sure, LOL. Plus it gives the internet a chance to talk about how great Randy is again and whether or not he can BEAT THE ODDS~
There is also a huge difference in beating the Mir of 2 years ago and the one of today. It hardly has any relevence on anything. If it did, shouldn’t Vera be ranked above Noguiera?
If he beats Couture, why shouldn’t he?
Why would he be? Nogueira beat Couture more recently.
And just because you may beat someone it doesn’t necessarily mean you leapfrog them in the rankings. Was Houston Alexander ever ranked above Keith Jardine?
More recently than Mir beat Nogueira, and Vera’s win over Mir is dated.
Couture/Vera has a good possibility of being an awful fight. I don’t know why people are still intrigued by Vera. He is a boring fighter who rarely engages. It’s like his win over a one legged Frank Mir put everyone in a trance. His fight with Kristof was like watching paint dry.
Randy is going to try to take him down and lay on him. One good combo from Vera and Randy will be out cold.
UFC is probably looking at this as the one matchup against a name opponent that Randy can win. Then they can give Randy to Anderson.
I agree with Roadblock, Vera is a failed prospect. If he wins nobody is going to think it’s a big deal because he beat up a nearly 50 year old man who has lost twice in a row already. If he loses and then Randy gets destroyed by Lesnar or Silva in his next fight nobody is going to take him seriously again.
It would do a good Spike rating for the novelty of seeing a legend fight for free, but it won’t build Vera. UFC got away with doing this kind of thing with Ortiz-Shamrock because the majority of the fanbase was so new they didn’t realize Ken had been washed up the entire decade. But the fans saw Randy’s history this time and won’t buy Vera.
Why would he be? Nogueira beat Couture more recently.
If Vera beats Couture, doesn’t that argument fly out the window? Then what? He was old for Vera but not for Noguiera?
I still laugh about the Mir win being outdated. What, is Fedor’s win over Noguiera outdated? Does he need to fight him again? LOL.
And just because you may beat someone it doesn’t necessarily mean you leapfrog them in the rankings. Was Houston Alexander ever ranked above Keith Jardine?
I think a lot of people ranked him above Jardine after that win. If not then, probably after the win against Alessio Sakara. Not saying it turned out to be 100% correct, just that it was what it was.
Leave Alan alone. He’s right, Vera should be a top 5 HW.
Also, Spencer Fisher is a top 5 WW for submitting Thiago Alves.
What happened in 3 years since those fights is completely irrelevant.
LOL, you guys. Results don’t matter unless they do. When Vera beats Couture, the comedy will continue to pour in about how even after beating two “top 5 heavyweights”, he couldn’t possibly be ranked. I still don’t think Couture will take much of a fall for some either. He’s gonna need to drop 7 in a row before people realize that wins over him don’t mean much anymore.
The Ken Shamrockization of Couture is sad
Very ain’t beating Couture, the guy is a shell of the fighter he was before he turned diva. Randy is going to dominate him and put himself back in the rankings as a top LHW. This is a great fight because the UFC is putting the heat on Vera to either perform big time or take his services somewhere else. Sadly for him he’s going to come up short against Couture and be another fighter who had great potential but never lived up to all the hype.
Vera’s losses to Sylvia, Werdum and Jardine prevent him from entering the top 10 HW. Couture probably isn’t a top HW anymore, but he beat a (then) top 3 or 4 Sylvia and a #6 or so Gonzaga to earn a place in the top 5, and has only lost since then to the current #2 and #4 ranked HWs. It’s hard to objectively drop a guy in the rankings for losing to 2 top fighters. However, since Vera is a proven mediocre HW talent, if Vera wins, Couture’s rank rightfully takes a nosedive. Note too that if Couture manages to win, you look like a tool.
But yes, as long as you ignore all of Vera’s losses at HW and LHW, and the fact that Mir had a life-threatening bike accident (I guess you’re one of those people who thinks that there aren’t any long-term, lingering effects from something like that), then you could make a case for ranking Vera. It’s a laughable one though.
However, since Vera is a proven mediocre HW talent, if Vera wins, Couture’s rank rightfully takes a nosedive.
Note: This is what should happen. I’m just playing a little numbers game for those who seem to think that Randy is still a decent fighter or that Mir is absolutely for sure deserving of a high ranking. They’re there because people have arbitrarily decided that results matter when they want them to. You do it right in your defense!
Note too that if Couture manages to win, you look like a tool.
I’m willing to take that menial risk and bet heavily on it with actual money.
Bas Boon, head of Golden Glory and Overeem’s manager’s quote of the day….. Got this from BE…
“It hasn’t escaped my notice that we are dealing with a bunch of crooks who wish to brand their name onto someone who has managed to build up a successful organization on his own with a good network deal.”
“Our deal with Strikeforce was made before this bunch of robbers came along, but now we were planning on asking our money in advance. In fact, I see this as the ideal opportunity to say no to the contract that was signed earlier; we don’t want to fight on any M-mini Cons & co promotions.”
“Is this the same organization that let Tommy Depret fly to America for nothing without having the decency to phone him to let him know it was cancelled?”
“I wonder what happens if Fedor loses a couple of times, or can’t fight due to circumstances, to all those enforced `Co-Promotions` that do not benefit the fighters in any way.”
This is not good news for Strikeforce. When Fedor Emelianenko signed with Strikeforce, the biggest 5 names in my opinion available to fight Fedor were:
Alistair Overeem, Fabricio Werdum, Brett Rogers, Paul Buentello, & Jeff Monson.
Monson’s loss to Rizzo knocks him out of the running. Buentello is going to the UFC. Overeem’s manager is talking about trying to get out of the contract. That leaves Werdum & Rogers left….. Not good!!
Alan,
Nobody is saying results matter only when we say they do. However, a most recent win is more important then something that happened 3 years ago.
Even if 3 fighters each beat each other, it is the most recent win that will put that guy above the other 2. Simple as that.
Mir beat the consesus #2 HW in the world. He gets that #2 ranking. End of story. klown has posted here before the linear Heavyweight Rankings. For the most part, it lacks any bit of opinion and is purely results based. And in that, Mir is #3 right now in the world.
Nobody is saying results matter only when we say they do.
Lemme see if I get this right:
Vera’s win over Mir (old) and a potential win over Couture (who himself is old) wouldn’t put him in the top tier of the heavyweights. Meanwhile, by comparison:
-Randy hasn’t won in two years, but lost to a guy now ranked #2 (was ranked below Randy) and to a guy who was ranked…well…something at the time and is now, in your estimation, ranked #4. His last win is to a guy who was ranked in the top 5 then but no longer is even a top 10 heavyweight, but because he was #3/4/5 then over two years ago, it is meaningful now to the point of Couture being a top 5/6/7 heavyweight.
-Mir lost to a bunch of people who aren’t ranked. He then beat 1-0 Lesnar who was not ranked in the top 50. After that, he rose some thanks to Lesnar’s bounce back. Then, while way below virtually everyone and considered a failed contender, he beat Noguiera, which catapults him to #2 and makes him a legit heavyweight. This is because it is unfair to ask why Noguiera lost to a guy who was barely top 20.
Following that, Mir got hurt again and then lost to Lesnar, who was also, again, ranked below him according to many. In spite of beating only one person who was top 10 when they fought in, well, 5 years and 3 months, Frank Mir is the #3 heavyweight.
So, what was that again about picking and choosing?
If Fedor Emelianenko loses to Ricco Rodriguez, Ricco becomes the #1 Heavyweight in the world. Doesn’t matter how his record was before that. Now, future fights can alter those rankings, but beating somebody in your last fight automatically puts you ahead of t It’s very simple.
Take that same principle and apply it to each ranking after that. So to be the #3 fighter in the world, you have to beat the #3 fighter in the world.
Ranking based on that system takes away almost all opinion. So start with that. Then a small amount of opinion needs to be put into the equation. For example, Chuck Liddell technically could still be ranked Top 10 based on that system. However, it is obvious that he is completely shot as a fighter and is no longer the same. Same goes for Tim Sylvia. I do think it takes multiple bad performances in order to prove that.
Now, when fighters are inactive, it does complicate the issue, as it is hard to know where to put them back in, even if they lose on their return. Like I said, no system is perfect.
Mir is #3 in the world based on this system. Now, if Mir goes and loses to Kongo, then I could understand the logic that Mir only beat Nogueira due to Staph infection and doesn’t deserve to be ranked higher due to that.
With all this said, most of the discussion becomes pointless when most or all of the Top 10 guys fight in the same organization.
The UFC Light Heavyweight Division has not been perfect when it comes to matchmaking or giving the highest ranked fighters title shots. However, it really doesn’t matter because everybody knows the best will continue to fight each other, and the winners will get a title shot. So Rua fighting Machida instead of Rampage is not a big deal at all…..
This is why I hate the entire idea of rankings: all they do is cause pointless arguments and the UFC doesn’t even go by them most of the time. Clearly the UFC goes by what fighter can bring them the most PPV buys without the fans boycotting them in outrage. Sometimes non-UFC wins count (Henderson’s two title shots) sometimes they don’t (Machida not getting a title shot until they had no choice.) And there’s nothing wrong with that, as a business you should do what is going to make the paying audience the happiest; which is why you’d be hard pressed to find someone shedding a tear Okami hasn’t gotten his Middleweight title shot: very few want to see it.
And reading fans online argue about rankings for a long period of time will give you a migraine. Sometimes it’s all about the win-loss percentage, sometimes it’s all about the quality of wins. Sometimes victories in separate weight classes should count, sometimes they should be discredited. Sometimes you should be allowed to count your non-UFC wins towards a title shot, sometimes you should have to start fresh. Sometimes your losses will be excused in the future if the guy who beat you has another good fight, sometimes if he gets beaten in his next fight you look worse.
Perfect example of all of those wrapped into one is the Shogun situation. Should his PRIDE record carry into UFC? Should we discount his victory against a washed-up Liddell? Should his loss to Griffin be discounted? Should he jump ahead in the title shot list because he’s a bigger name and a more exciting fighter than some?
Congrats to Alan for hijacking yet another thread and turning it into an argument about nothing.
That article really undersells the upcoming UFN. An audience of 500k? If it does that, it will be a major bomb.
Rankings = whatever Dana White says they are.
If Dana woke up tomorrow morning and had a brain fart to have Brock Lesnar defend the UFC title against Bobby Lashley, everyone would be calling Lashley the #2 fighter in the world.
Why? Because that’s how the UFC would sell it. The UFC didn’t become the #1 promotion on earth because they had the best fighters (although they clearly do now) – they got to the top by pushing a narrative, and *convincing* everyone they had the best fighters.
Can’t wait for TUF Heavyweight season. Perfect move having it all in th HW division, and I like having some NFL players in there, too. It will answer some questions about NFL athletes in general.
And yes, I want to see Kimbo. Admit it – you all want to see him just like you can’t look away from a train wreck, or a Ken Shamrock fight.
Well Ultimo, to avoid the train wreck, one has to not be where a train wreck is. So, therefore, I will not watch this season except for the fights. Even then I will probably only watch the finale.
I shall call it now, Roy Nelson will either win this season or get to the finals. Quote me on that one.
I’m not sure exactly what the show will prove about NFL athletes. As no NFL athletes are on the show.
Former players , as in guys who couldn’t cut it in the NFL, are on the show. Right now every NFL player in the world is competing in the NFL.
There is no question that the guys in the NFL are the best and most rugged athletes in the world. There are lots of great soccer, basketball, sprinters and rugby players. But all in all I think it is only fair to say the NFL has the biggest, strongest and most explosive athletes on the planet.
If you held one of those crazy challenge shows like they used to run in the 80’s with every athlete on the planet I think NFL wide receivers and running backs would dominate.
Brock Lesnar is a guy who didn’t make it in the NFL. Just as a point of comparison. If the ex-NFL guys on TUF lose it doesn’t say UFC or MMA guys are tougher than NFL players. Just like Babalu losing in Strikeforce doesn’t prove Strikeforce guys are better than UFC guys.
Zach – any truth to the rumours (I’ve seen it commented on a couple of websites) that Couture – Nog only pulled in the neighbourhood of 400k buys?
That’s gotta be wrong right? If it is, that’s gotta be pretty concerning.
MMAPayout reports that Meltzer reports UFC 102 did 435k buys.
Zach – any truth to the rumours (I’ve seen it commented on a couple of websites) that Couture – Nog only pulled in the neighbourhood of 400k buys?
That’s gotta be wrong right? If it is, that’s gotta be pretty concerning.
It means people buy big fights and know the difference between ones that are big and ones that aren’t. Why is this so concerning? Its not any different than UFC 67 dropping back into the 300Ks after 66 did a million-plus.
Alan predicted 425,000 PPV Buys for UFC 102, so he was spot on. I predicted 400,000… still close.
I know we are currently in the world of UFC getting 1 Million buys…. but over 400,000 is still a successful PPV.
Couture has never been a huge draw, despite how much the UFC talks him up. This is further proof of this. I think UFC 103 gets about the same number of PPV buys…. around 400,000.
The obvious answer was that they put events too close together and their audience chose UFC 101.
Maybe it speaks to the fact that Couture stayed out too long and lost his relevance and the UFC audience doesn’t care about Nogueira.
But it could also speak to the fact that the audience doesn’t want to buy one-fight shows. Vera, Leben, Jardine and Marquardt aren’t stars and their respective fights weren’t highly anticipated by many people. Whereas at UFC 101 you got two huge main events to make up for the rest of the show.
If we’re making PPV predictions:
Mayweather/Marquez: 700K. Take it to the bank. Show is seen as a bit of a disappointment when Chris John and Mayweather both turn out dominant performances.
UFC 103: 345K. Franklin isn’t a big draw, but a good placeholder with other guys at his level. Vitor is nobody to the fans. Their fight is at the wrong weight class. Cro-Cop is a failure. Dos Santos is an unknown. Kampmann/Swick is off and now its Kampmann/guy no one knows who can’t beat him. Koscheck looks like a bum right now to most casuals. This is literally among the worst cards they’ve ever put together from a name perspective. Maybe worse than UFC 78. Its the kind of show that I actively root against because I don’t want other ones like it making PPV.
The Portland show really took the shine off Randy and shows that he isn’t a draw on his own.
400k on PPV these days is basically hardcores only. Despite claims of 16,000 tickets sold the Rose Garden was only slightly over half full. I think they just let folks in the upper deck move down to the lower bowl.
Looks like UFC overpaid for Couture’s services.
I agree w/ Alan that the Floyd fight will win the PPV battle. But I think it will be more like 500k for boxing to 400k for UFC.
There are a bunch of excellent fights on the UFC card this Saturday. But no one must see fight for people that aren’t obsessed with MMA.
Just to clarify – my comment that “it must be concerning” was in reference to Randy Couture only, not meant as anything regarding the UFC’s biz health (they’re up over 50% on the year to year ppv buys vs. 08). 400k is perfectly fine, especially coming off back to back big ppvs.
Randy was assumed to be one of their next biggest draws behind Lensar, wasn’t he? It looks like they over-estimated his current drawing power with fans, maybe he’s just been left behind due to his long layoff or maybe fans don’t take him as a viable top fighter. Maybe they just don’t care if he’s not fighting another big name, but that really dents his once bulletproof drawing aura.
Kinda makes me wonder how the free Spike show will go. Lots of sites were getting all jubilant about what huge ratings a card with Couture headlining it will pull…possibly fans will still watch in droves for free but won’t pay for him anymore.