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The MMA clipboard for Thursday – Champagne wishes and Hollywood dreams for Wolfslair
By Zach Arnold | September 10, 2009
Shayna Baszler and Noah Inhofer are about to get eclipsed in South Dakota MMA lore by this man, Jon Madsen, who will be on next week’s Ultimate Fighter show. He wrestled against Brock Lesnar in High School.
A list sure to generate heat – the 10 best fighters not currently in UFC.
Is Michael Bisping ‘going Hollywood’ like Rampage Jackson?
Sean Sherk really did get hurt in training.
Andrei Arlovski wants back in MMA and wants to fight Tim Sylvia.
Boxing fans are getting pissed about Dana White bashing Juan Manuel Marquez.
Bob Arum says Manny Pacquiao vs. Miguel Cotto could draw 1.5 million PPV buys.
Yoshihiro Takayama will face Naoya Ogawa in a cage death match at JCB Hall in Tokyo on 11/3. Josh Barnett, who will likely fight at Sengoku’s Ryogoku Kokugikan event a couple of days later, reportedly has an offer to work the IGF show.
Topics: Media, MMA, UFC, Zach Arnold | 43 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
some quick thoughts:
Boxing dudes (and everyone else) need to stop giving Dana White free bandwidth every time he opens his mouth. Yeah, no shit Mayweather/Marquez is a better card than UFC 103. Trying to sustain some farcical argument with a phantom is stupid.
Pac/Cotto probably does 1.2-1.3 million. Mayweather/Pacquiao is really the big money fight and that’s coming up next if both win.
If MMA promotions want guys to stop filming movies, pay them more. End of story.
I doubt Pacquiao vs. Cotto does over 1 mln.
Boxing fans have no reason to be angry, and I agree 100% with Dana White’s assessment: people pay $60+ dollars to see Floyd Mayweather NOT fight. It’s literally like watching Dancing with the Stars, but less physically taxing.
I don’t understand why there wasn’t more mainstream backlash after the Floyd/Oscar fight, where Mayweather turned in the most embarrassing combat sports performance I’ve ever seen, especially for a main event.
MMA needs to pay people more to not go into Hollywood?
Most people in Hollywood are working 2 to 3 jobs to just cling on and hope they get their big break. The number of stars who make big money are very slim, and even some who do have a short reign while at top.
If anything, Brock Lesnar is better compensated then 99% of actors out there.
MMA will always have a small problem with fighters wanting to be stars. It’s the type of athletes they attract, and the lack of a season makes it easier for them to justify down time where they can pursue it. But it has very little to do about money if you really look at the numbers…
I doubt Pacquiao vs. Cotto does over 1 mln.
You can doubt it if you’d like. I’ll be stunned if it doesn’t beat Lesnar/Carwin. You can even quote me and bring it back up later if I’m wrong.
MMA needs to pay people more to not go into Hollywood?
Yes, obviously.
MMA will always have a small problem with fighters wanting to be stars.
Of course. Stars make money. Wouldn’t some guy that’s creating millions of dollars of revenue want to cash in? Seems stupid not to.
“It’s literally like watching Dancing with the Stars, but less physically taxing.”
Watching Mayweather or doing what he does? Which is less physically taxing than Dancing with the Stars?
Carwin/Lesnar should beat Pacquiao/Cotto. It will not beat Pacquiao/Mayweather if that fight ends up happening. But I think Floyd is going to lose his September fight anyways.
As for the Sean Sherk story…. It’s just another example in a long line of them of the internet taking a partial story and assuming the worst of a fighter. This is a constant theme that gets played out week after week, month after month. And more times then not it is based on partial facts that don’t allow people to really develop a true opinion on the topic.
Alan,
Typical post where you cheery pick comments out of context and reply to them. My whole post points out why your premise is wrong. MMA Fighters could be paid $20 Million a fight, and a few would still want to do the cross over thing.
Another point…. Not having somebody try and strike or submit you, and still being able to make money will always have appeal to some fighters. Quinton & Gina are actualyl very similar. They both don’t like to train but still enjoy the spotlight. The transitions to acting make perfect sense in that regard.
This is one of the UFC girls?
http://www.mmaconvert.com/2009/09/10/natasha-wicks-day-job/
MMA Fighters could be paid $20 Million a fight, and a few would still want to do the cross over thing.
Maybe, but I doubt we’d be seeing hella dudes making that cross over right now if they were. I’ll say this though; you see anyone skipping out of the NFL to make a movie? Or golf? Williams sisters take time off when they’re hurt from tennis, but at least they have a reason.
Think of it this way….
Anybody who has made it in tennis has gone through years of training and youth athletics in order to make it to the top. Anybody with less desire to play tennis is naturally going to be weeded out before they even become professional. Same thing with Football, Baseball, Hockey, etc. All of the athletes start at such a young age that they really have to have a love for the sport to make it to the highest level. Those people who have this passion are much less likely to want to pursue anything else. And even the guys who do, like a Bernie Williams (with music) will do it on the side during his playing years and then make a run for it AFTER they complete their athletics.
MMA is different for two reasons. First, the point of entry is not as great. Fighting is a natural human instinct. It isn’t something that has to be taught like swinging a racket or throwing a baseball. Therefore, there will always be a few people who have true natural ability that can flurish. Secondly, is the depth of MMA….
Women’s MMA has no depth, so winning a few fights against undersized opponents like Carano did can automatically put her in a title shot. Carano was not weeded out early on because there just isn’t enough competition to do so. Realistically, if women’s MMA was strong, she wouldn’t have even made it close to a title shot with her work ethic. Same applied for Quinton when he first started his MMA career. Back then, the depth was weak. Even some of the top guys had huge holes in their game. Men’s MMA has much more depth now and it can be harder to rise to the top without that drive.
At the end of the day, money has little to do with it. Most serious actors do it for the love of acting, and sometimes they happen to stumble on the money. Most serious MMA fighters fight for the love of fighting and if they are good enough they stumble onto the money. It would be one thing if Quinton wasn’t being paid a lot. He is. He likely won’t even get the MMA paydays he is getting in movies. And Carano has been looking for a way out of fighting since she signed on with American Gladiators.
My point was that Floyd was running the ENTIRE fight vs. Oscar, and it was an embarrassment. He probably worked up more of a sweat dancing on a reality show.
That fight shows the mainstream media’s love of boxing is alive and well – there was virtually no backlash for that train wreck, where it should have been laughed at.
A lot.
Pacquiao is a bad ass, and a legitimate fighter. If Floyd actually decides to fight him he’ll get killed. Pac is too fast, and Floyd won’t be able to run away the whole fight and sneak out a decision like he did vs. Oscar.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Floyd ‘retires’ for the 12th time, says he has nothing left to prove, and takes the now-popular route of fighters appearing in mainstream movies.
I’m curious to see what Floyd/Marquez does. It’s a real intriguing fight. Marquez brings the 400,000 buys for a big Mexican fight. Anything over that is from Floyd and 24/7. This should tell us what kind of a draw Floyd is.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Floyd and Pac both lose. I heard Manny refused to leave the Phillipines for his training camp.
Real quick on the type of fighter in MMA and how it relates to Hollywood. The guys you have in MMA weren’t good enough to play team sports and a lot are loners. Vert few of these guys have loyalty to anything and almost nine of their words mean anything. Of course they’ll jump on whatever they feel is a good hung fo them. Even if it means making a terrible business decision. Look how many guys bolt their camps after a loss. It’s always someone elses fault. LOL at anyone thinking Hollywood is a good place to work. You think Dana is rough on guys? They let actors starve to death in Hollywood.
Plenty of athletes enter new sports or dedicate themsleves to sports that were secondary to them “late” even on an elite level. There’s examples of that playing tight end and O-Line in the NFL and center in the NBA, past and present. I don’t buy into that being a difference maker, otherwise Tony Gonzalez would be fielding calls about a sitcom or something.
At the end of the day, money has little to do with it. Most serious actors do it for the love of acting, and sometimes they happen to stumble on the money.
Most serious actors do it as a job, not because it has social benefit that they play a role. In the case of someone like Rampage, he’s using his fame as a fighter to make money as an actor (which he will probably not be good at) in the hopes that it comes with more money later from additional acting gigs. The idea that Quinton Jackson is embarking on some quest to become a serious thespian is laughable.
Furthermore, why then has this never happened to boxing? Ever? I don’t remember Tim Witherspoon deciding to check out and go act. Don’t remember Wilfredo Gomez deciding that he didn’t want to fight, but that telenovelas were his gig. Its ’cause they got paid more at the top. You note Lesnar is getting paid more than most actors, but Rampage, Gina, Le, and Bisping ain’t Lesnar, are they?
I’m curious to see what Floyd/Marquez does. It’s a real intriguing fight. Marquez brings the 400,000 buys for a big Mexican fight. Anything over that is from Floyd and 24/7. This should tell us what kind of a draw Floyd is.
I’ve been pretty good with my guesses these days for boxing, and I’m guessing 700,000 for this. Mayweather wins and picks up a lot of momentum. Too big, too fast.
Look how many guys bolt their camps after a loss. It’s always someone elses fault.
That’s true everywhere though. You see father/son teams in boxing hate each other for years over “bad coaching” or whatever. Diego Corrales cut his dad off all the way to his death for throwing in the towel against Mayweather.
LOL at anyone thinking Hollywood is a good place to work. You think Dana is rough on guys? They let actors starve to death in Hollywood.
Who says that?
Alan
I think Lesnar vs. Carwin PPV sales will be in the same range as Pacquiao vs. Cotto, 800k-1mln.
I also believe that there is a better chance that Pacman loses against Cotto than Floyd against JMM.
Poor Arlovski and Sylvia. Who in their right mind wants to see those two bozos fight again?
“Plenty of athletes enter new sports or dedicate themsleves to sports that were secondary to them “late” even on an elite level. There’s examples of that playing tight end and O-Line in the NFL and center in the NBA, past and present. I don’t buy into that being a difference maker, otherwise Tony Gonzalez would be fielding calls about a sitcom or something.”
I think you missed the point. Even if they switch over, that love of sports and dedication is still there. And most of them have been in multiple sports as a kid, so that is nothing new. When did Gina Carano ever have to showcase high level worth ethic in order to accomplish a sport? And if you cite Nevada Girl’s High School Basketball, then I will have to laugh. The answer is she has never had to.
“Most serious actors do it as a job, not because it has social benefit that they play a role.”
This is just flat out untrue. Most serious actors prefer stage performing and a lot of them started off doing such. Most of them stumbled into Hollywood that way. Look at all the great British Actors that fill up the blockbusters each summer. Almost all have come from stagework, where there is little money involved in them. And I’m not talking about the Pitt’s & Clooney’s of the world who are just great looking faces with moderate acting abilities. I’m talking about the real actors like Ian McKellen, Patrick Stewart, Hugo Weaving, etc.
As for Rampage, he has clearly stated that he is very happy with the UFC money in the past. It has been reported that he gets PPV Bonuses, which means his paycheck could have easy hit 7 figures. So money is not the issue. It’s the daily grind of being a fight most likely.
“Furthermore, why then has this never happened to boxing?”
A few reasons. First, back in the first half of the 1900’s, boxers boxed and actors acted. Even getting more towards the 1970’s, most of the athletes had no acting potential. Marvin Hagler was a great boxer but could you ever see doing a drama? Not really. The guy with true movie appeal was Ali, and he was more interested in the Civil Rights Movement. Ray Leonard always tried to cross over in some capacity and failed. And George Foreman admits he was a bumbbling idiot with his words until he got older. He was hardly movie material.
Not to mention that boxers in general have always been less articulate then their MMA counterparts. The difference in a post fight MMA and Boxing interview is like night and day.
“Real quick on the type of fighter in MMA and how it relates to Hollywood. The guys you have in MMA weren’t good enough to play team sports and a lot are loners.”
This can apply to the larger weight classes. It really doesn’t have anything to do with Lightweight or below. Those sports leagues barely have anybody 5’9″ or below…
Scott Coker would love to have Arlovski and Sylvia
Let’s not forget about Layla Ali and Mia St. John.
Ultimo;
Are you serious? Floyd did what he did to win. Were you expecting a Gatti/Ward style slugfest or something? If you want to see a true embarrassing performance, check out the Bernard Hopkins vs. Morrade Hakkar fight. Hakkar literally hid BEHIND THE REFEREE in that fight. Hopkins won via 6th round TKO. Pitiful. Hopkins did good and did what he needed to do, but Hakkar? Ugh!
@Chuck
Well, not the most embarrassing performance of ALL TIME maybe, but for the amount of hype surrounding that fight, and the billion dollars of free press Oscar vs. Floyd got from every media outlet in the English-speaking world…it was bad.
Phantom Menace bad.
I’ll take your word on the Bernard Hopkins vs. Morrade Hakkar fight…but I might try to find it now just to compare horribleness.
Check it out. It was nothing short of surreal…..besides the second Lennox Lewis/Oliver McCall fight.
I think you missed the point. Even if they switch over
I’m not just talking about guys who switch.
This is just flat out untrue. Most serious actors prefer stage performing and a lot of them started off doing such.
Some do, and even then stage performance isn’t done for free. You’ve got guys who do community theater and you guys who never graduate from amateur MMA. Big deal.
Marvin Hagler was a great boxer but could you ever see doing a drama?
Note: You picked the one guy who left the sport over what he considered a bad decision and then went to film.
Not to mention that boxers in general have always been less articulate then their MMA counterparts. The difference in a post fight MMA and Boxing interview is like night and day.
LOL whut. Yes, clearly Aaron Pryor had nothing on Sean Sherk or BJ Penn when it comes to their ability to articulate speech.
When will Alistair Overeem defend his Strikeforce Heavyweight Title? The answer he’s giving now: After his upcoming K-1 fight, and after another MMA fight in Holland. While he’s at it, he ought to enter the Scripps Howard Spelling Bee or perhaps a Butter-Churning Festival & Jelly-Off (Copyright Mr. Show). What’s the rush, right?
Wow, I cannot believe people are being harsh on Mayweather in a sport where Machida is one of the most beloved fighters. You can’t bash one guy for being elusive but love the other. Machida is pretty much universally accepted now, but I remember a very impassioned debate on “running versus good defense” on places like this one.
1.7 million is pretty steep. I don’t recall boxing doing back-to-back blockbuster numbers like UFC this decade. I say they split the audience and do under 1 million each.
I’m still amazed people are so shocked fighters would want to make movies. You can make millions of dollars sitting in a trailer until your scene is up, do a couple of takes and then go back to your trailer. Or you can be paid an amount of money that depends on your placement on the card and how well it sells to train until your body is ready to give out for a month and then get beaten up. Your fighting success window is less than 20 years if you start young whereas you can be an actor well into old age. What is so hard to understand about that?
Ivan — Overeem didn’t have a championship clause with Strikeforce. This is completely their bad. His injury, while suspect, really doesn’t matter. He had a contract with FEG and with Golden Glory longer than he had a Strikeforce contract, which was just right before the fight he got injured for last month.
It is funny to see anybody deny that this Mayweather/Marquez card will do well. Ridiculous. I’m sorry, but boxing still attracts a whole different audience that MMA hasn’t even tapped yet. Yes, it involves people who are willing to spend money.
As for that top 10 list, it is on examiner.com, I could beat 45 over the head with a baseball bat until his brains were seeping out and they’d let him write as a local examiner.
@ Ivan: Who have they had for him to defend against up until recently?
Want to talk about the UFC talking smack about fighters: From Sherdog.com….. Paul Buentello is going to the UFC. This is what Scott Coker had to say about it:
http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/buentello-out-of-strikeforce-likely-to-ufc-19624
““We offered Paul a six-figure contract to fight Fedor, but he turned it down,” Coker said. “His decision is understandable considering Fedor’s level of skill but, at the same time, Paul didn’t really fit into our plans. He’s been a solid journeyman fighter and we wish him the best of luck in his future endeavors.”
Buentello says a whole paragraph of stuff in his response, but the last line says it all:
“But to say I turned down Fedor because of his skill level is a slap in the face.”
Note that this is the second time Strikeforce has crapped on a leaving fighter. They had a press release on Phil Baroni bashing him as he went to the UFC. Obviously Dana White gets a lot of crap for talking badly about certain fighters. This is just to point out Coker is doing the same…
I think its sad that Buentello was even considered. He’s a horribly ordinary fighter who presents nothing interesting to the table and has nothing really amazing in terms of skill.
Alan is correct.
What’s even worse is how dumb Scott Coker is. I don’t think he realizes he made himseld and Strikeforce look even worse. In one sentence he says Buentello was a potential challenger to Fedor. In the next he calls him a journyman.
So Scott is even admitting that he is feeding Fedor journyman (by his own definition)?
How dumb can he be to admit that?
Lesnar’s the biggest star in the UFC, and he knows how to sell a fight. For that matter, so does the UFC. Selling Carwin is easy too; he’s a giant monster just like Brock, he’s undefeated, and nobody has ever lasted more than a round with him.
I just can’t see Brock and the UFC getting getting less than a million with their hype machines at work. I’d consider 800k a moderate failure.
So Coker basically admits Strikeforce books journeyman fighters on six figure contracts to fight the best heavyweight in the world.
Shane is correct. I made the same comment in a 2nd post but it got held up by the automatic moderator. Many other people have pointed out the same thing on various websites.
Coker is stupid to be admitting that. Didn’t exactly think his comment through.
From GoldenBoy from The UG…. A guy who knows Buentello and has been very reliable source of information in the past:
“And it would appear you just have an opinion. Try this….
You sign a fight for X amount of fights for X amount of $$$. You win the first fight on the 4 fight deal and then your opponent get hurt. You take a short notice fight for 20k less even though your contract calls for X amount of $$. You win that fight only to have that fight not count as one of your 4 fights that you signed a contract for…for X amount of $$.
Now, you have a fight left on your contract that you honored and took less money to do so. You get a chance to fight a guy whose last oppononets got 800k and 1.5 mil to fight for a low six figure contract? Why not Overeem (lol, I’m not going to touch that one..yet) Werdum? (who is ranked higher than you even though he has lost to unranked fighters in more recent bouts) Cause they want to pay you pennys on the dollor on what those guys will get.
Now, I know most Brock haters don’t like Brock because he’s been a fake wrestler. And we all know that the same haters would never take a job fake beating people up and stand their ground. They wouldn’t quit their current job making 20k at the local car wash over the millions Brock made. MMA fans are above that. I pay the guy that mows my yard $50 a pop. Now, if you know anyone that will mow my yard for $5.00…let me know.
Coker offers Paul (his words not mine) a six figure deal to fight Fedor yet when Paul turns him downs than says Paul is just a journyman and doesn’t fit in his plans? Have Scott call Jan Norte or Bob Sapp. He payed them double what he payed Paul and we say what kind of a piece of shit that was. It ain’t rocket science folks. Has nothing to do with anyone ducking anyone. Its not like Paul was asking to co promote the SOB or anything… “
I feel bad for Buentello. I mean, I agree that he is a journeyman and really has no business being in the ring with Fedor, but that means you don’t book him against Fedor.
Plain and simple.
Disrespecting fighters is bush-league when the UFC does it, and it’s bush-league when Strikeforce does it. No good can come of it when any promoter badmouths a fighter.
Floyd will beat JMM. I think JMM is a terrific fighter but I don’t think he has enough speed to counter PBF and stay out of the way. I think PBF will land quick combinations and put JMM down a few times.
Biggest boxing promoter behaves exactly the same as Dana (MMAFanhouse interview with Bob Arum), what should we make of that?
In just 15 fights Machida evolved from an elisuve fighter who sent for decisions, to a forward-moving KO machine.
After 35+ fights, Mayweather talks like he’s going to kill people like Tyson, and then runs to avoid any and all contact. He did manage to KO Hatton, but vs. Oscar looked pretty ridiculous.
When a fight is pretty much hyped as the Fight of the Century, and then Mayweather runs for the ENTIRE fight, it IS an embarrassment tot he sport. Its baffling to me that a) boxing didn’t lose 75% of it’s fans that night, and b) the media didn’t rip that performance to shreds.
Don’t forget he stopped Diego Corrales and Arturro Gatti as well. Shit, and I just realized both are dead. How much shit changes in just a few years, let me tell ya….
Mayweather has 25 KOs and 14 Decisions. That’s not a bad record. Tyson had 14 Decisions in his career as well, so I guess he sucked too, right?
Oops, that was Tyson’s amateur record, he had 5 decisions professionally. But the point that 25 out of 39 fights ending in KO is not bad. I agree the De La Hoya fight wasn’t great (although some fault of Oscar missing so much should be taken into the account as well) but you shouldn’t write someone off on one fight.