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The UFC Middleweight title situation
By Zach Arnold | August 31, 2009
Naturally, one would think that Nathan Marquardt would get a shot at Anderson Silva’s Middleweight title after his dominating performance against Demian Maia at UFC 102. You’d be wrong.
And you’d be wrong too if you thought Yushin Okami would get a title shot in the near future.
Lots of interesting happenings going on with Anderson Silva these days. Dave Meltzer said that Silva’s camp isn’t keen on a fight with Dan Henderson for November (either for the UK show or the Las Vegas event) and that all Middleweight booking is up-in-the-air right now in UFC.
Okami, who is the legitimate #1 contender in the Middleweight division, has been sitting at home in Japan. The closest he’s getting to UFC these days is doing color commentary for their shows on WOWOW (which he did for the UFC 102 event). Marquardt, meanwhile, also deserves a Middleweight title shot and may not end up getting it against Silva.
The big question for Silva is what’s next for him? If he isn’t all that interested in a fight against Marquardt or Henderson, then who at 205 pounds interests him? Rampage Jackson wants to do a movie and Rashad Evans is ‘married’ to him in terms of matchmaking, so what’s next?
Topics: Media, MMA, UFC, Zach Arnold | 55 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
Not interested in Henderson or Marquardt. Unwilling to fight Machida. Silva’s being a pain in the @$$, that’s what he’s being. He needs to choose…. either stay at Middleweight and fight the top contenders (even if they are rematches). Or vacate the belt, move to Light Heavyweight, and be willing to fight Machida if that fight ends up happening.
Isn’t Yushin Okami fighting Chael Sonnen next at UFC 104? The next in line should be Marquardt, with the winner of Okami vs. Sonnen following that. If Anderson Silva is being a pain in the ass, then they should just have an interim title (as much as I HATE those) with maybe the winner between a Marquardt/Henderson fight being the interim champ, and the winner of the aforementioned Okami/Sonnen fight getting first dibs at a title shot. Oh, and in the meantime, let Anderson Silva go to light-heavyweight and turn the interim title to the full title.
I also hate this “I’m too good for rematches” stuff that some fighters pull. Imagine if Matt Hughes pulled that against GSP and avoided a 2nd fight. Or Mir did that against Lesnar. While the majority of rematches in the UFC do end the same way, there are still solid cases that showcase why rematches are good. And Marquardt & Henderson have both earned those rematches.
Anderson Silva is as good as people say he is, I don’t see the problem of him fighting Henderson, Marquardt, & Okami/Belfort (in that order) over the next 8 months and then just being finished with the Middleweight Division.
Another note…. I don’t think he would be willing to fight either of the Nogueira brothers, so a move to Light Heavyweight or Heavyweight becomes that much less attractive for Dana White or Joe Silva.
Ed Soares said in an interview that UFC was receptive to the idea of a fight against Frank Mir. He also said that Lesnar vs. Silva would be interesting. Sounds like Silva could care less about the middleweight title and just wants big name/money fights with heavyweights and light heavyweights.
I’ve said for a long time Silva should drop the 185lb belt and move up to 205 or HW.
What are they going to do have him clean out the 185 division a second time? He destroyed Marquardt and Henderson. Let those two fight for the vacant belt. 185 will be one of the best if not the best division in UFC at that point.
Let Silva kill Randy, then fight Mir or vice versa and send him in against the champ.
I also think not fighting Machida won’t be a problem after Shogun beats Machida. Silva/Shogun would be a really great fight.
Okami will never get a title shot even if there are no other viable contenders. Sad, but true.
Let’s get 1 thing clear it doesn’t matter what interests Silva and what doesn’t if the UFC wants him to face Nate that’s exactly what will happen. The UFC will humor Soares but the idea that he has any say in who Anderson fights next is beyond ridiculous and wrong.
Spider should face Couture (who needs to go back to 205). If Couture by chance wins, that sets up Couture/Machida and Machida getting revenge for his friend (a long shot).
Couture has a limited time left and this is an interesting match up. The thought of Spider/Mir is just yuck.
I agree with Ivan quite pathetic how Okami will not get a title shot ever
Correction, Okami will never get a title shot while Anderson Silva holds the belt.
I think he should definitely quit MMA and fight Roy Jones Jnr, now thats a fight the world would love to see.
I don’t think it has anything to do with Silva being the champion. It’s because they view Okami as “boring,” and it’s not really about “the best fighting the best.”
I just saw this on MMA Junkie (I would have put in my previous post if I had seen it earlier).
Not only is Yushin Okami never going to get a title shot, but guess who’s in another prelim fight? That’s right, it’s Yushin Okami. The same Yushin Okami who is 7-1 in the UFC, and all but three of his eight UFC fights have been prelims.
What do you guys think of Kang vs Bisping?
Why should I be interested in seeing Anderson see beat two guys he beat in the first and second rounds? I keep hearing that Nate has improved, but I don’t see him at Silva’s level. Hendo certainly doesn’t seem any better, and he looked awful against Silva last time.
And if Okami couldn’t hang with Silva-light (Rich Franklin), are we deluding ourselves into thinking that DQ loss means he stands a chance?
So when Fedor chose Strikeforce instead of UFC it was ok that best weren’t fighting the best, but when Okami is not getting a title shot, Ivan is the first to criticize UFC. š
Seriously Okami was scheduled to fight Silva at UFC 88, he got injured, fought atrocious fight against Lister and got injured again. He fought once in the last 18 months. I don’t see why he should be first in the line for the titleshot before Marquardt or Henderson, who both have had really impressive wins recently.
VACATE THE TITLE.
Anderson has cleaned out the Middleweight division, period.
Have a four-man MW tournament (Marquardt vs. Henderson, Okami vs. the winner of Belfort/Franklin) and booyah touchdown, you have a fresh new champion and a wide open field of new matches.
Let Anderson test the waters at 205 where he has a new crop of guys to annihilate. Or hell, Mir at Heavyweight.
Just get his ass out of MW because it’s stupid and pointless.
Interesting stuff from mmalogic…. as always, his stuff needs to be taken with a grain of salf…
The plan is 12 numbered shows per year that will not be on PPV. (4 on network and the other 8 (mostly overseas shows) with a broadcast partner other than spike).
12 numbered shows per year that will be on PPV
up to 12 fight nights on spike.
I dont know what the new deal turned out to be but the original one was 4 on ABC, and the other 8 on espn major for the non-ppv numbered events.
The 4 may now be moved to a different network (but I dont know for sure) and the other 8 remaining on espnā¦ unless the āotherā network decides to gobble up the entire 12 and Zuffa is able to get out of any commitment that was made.
No matter what spike has a ceilingā¦ so you have to look at the other broadcast deals as additional āadvertisiingā value.
The over saturation argument really doesnāt apply as long as thereās an equal āunit of timeā of non live UFC programming.
For example: if you get laid every week. Miss a week and you get a feeling of longing. Hence the magic of 3 live events per month and 1 week of āUFC longingā.
Also the ānumberedā event produces a āzeigarnikā effect which compels the viewer to ākeep up with the sportā.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspense#Zeigarnik_effect
You feel something is missing if you watch UFC 103 and miss UFC 102 and UFC 104, etcā¦
So over saturation is less of a concern than being limited with only having live programming on spikeā¦ both form a width perspective and depth perspective especially with the new market dynamics and demands that has been generated by the game and will be by Kimboās tuf season .
For Silva, drop the belt and move on. I don’t give a shit about him against those guys again.
The division is actually better and more competitive without him.
I agree that Middleweight is better without him. But what will he do after that? Just pick off contenders at LHW to keep away from Machida? Or move to Heavyweight where he won’t fight Noguiera?
Not to mention the UFC has added motivation on keeping him champion…. They need the clause in place to keep him from fighting RJJ…. At least outside of the UFC….
As for Okami, I’m a huge supporter or his…. But his body has been very fragile lately. I don’t even think he has fought in 2009 so far. It’s the same as if the UFC has Josh Thomson. It’s very hard to book around a guy who is always getting injured. Putting him on te undercard is actually a smart idea for this one fight. If he wins and doesn’t get injured from there…. They need to start making the push towards the title shot for him.
possibilities at 205:
Shogun (if he beats Lyoto)
Luiz Cane
Jon Jones
Brandon Vera
Tito
“Okami will never get a title shot even if there are no other viable contenders. Sad, but true.”
That is simply preposterous.
The UFC has already given him a title shot (which he backed out of due to injury) and a #1 contender match (which he lost to Rich Franklin). To claim they will never give him a shot, when they have already given him TWO shots is just silly.
If Anderson vacates the title and two guys that he beat decisively fight for it, that kind of makes the title illegitimate. Then again, you can’t blame Anderson for only wanting big fights. It’s definitely a mess.
Since 6/17/07, Okami has had 4 fights. He went 3-1 with wins over Lister, Tanner, and MacDonald, and a loss to Franklin.
Since 3/1/08, Hendo has had 4 fights. He went 3-1 with wins over Franklin, Bisping, and Palhares, and a loss to A. Silva.
In 2 years Okami has had as many fights as Hendo in 1.5 years (don’t forget Hendo also coached TUF during that time), and his opposition pales in comparison. Anyone who says Okami has done the most to earn the next title shot out of all the current UFC MW fighters is being intellectually dishonest. Just admit you *want* Okami to be the #1 contender because it’s a title fight you haven’t seen yet.
And who booked Okami to face those opponents, and put three of those four fights on the prelims?
Also, Steve4192’s statement is factually wrong. He wrote, “That is simply preposterous. The UFC has already given him a title shot (which he backed out of due to injury).”
Silva-Okami was never announced, booked, or had bout agreements signed. It was only after Okami broke his hand that the UFC said via their surrogates that Okami would have gotten the title shot instead of Patrick Cote if not for Okami breaking his hand. As for Okamiās standing with UFC management, they gave Thales Leites a title shot ahead of him, deciding instead to book Okami on the December cardā¦ in a prelim matchā¦ against Dean Listerā¦ while C.B. Dollaway vs. Mike Massenzio was on the main card.
Also, here is the URL to the MMA Junkie article about Yushin Okami being on the prelims yet again, which is the sixth time in his nine-fight UFC run that he has been in the prelims (despite a UFC record of 7-1).
http://mmajunkie.com/news/15972/ufc-104-main-card-nearly-set-middleweight-contender-yushin-okami-again-on-prelims.mma
So, Ivan you’re saying that Okami should of been on the Main Card in December? You do recall, how that fight went and why it was not on the main card?
Ivan,
What do you expect the UFC to do in this situation? Not only is Okami boring, but he is coming off a long layoff, only increasing his chances of being boring in this fight.
Two major misconceptions about the UFC that have continued to be proven false are:
1) They don’t support boring fighters.
2) They would never have two foreigners in a title fight.
Fitch & Maynard are very boring by casual fight fan standards. That has not stopped the UFC from putting them on their main cards.
And Machida/Rua is further proof that foreign guys will get a push in the UFC.
Yes, the UFC does favor guys who are exciting. They are also the most friendly organization in the world for “boring” fighters. They have put Fitch & Leitas in title fights. They are now going to be promoting Gray Maynard for a title push.
A good portion of the blame is on Okami here. He is unreliable due to his constant injuries. And during fights, he has 2+ minutes in a row where he sometimes does absolutely nothing. I enjoy his fights, but lets be honest. He needs to actually fight.
That doesn’t mean he needs to be wreckless or throw wild strikes. But he does need to engage more.
Henry: Well, that depends. Is the sport about “the best fighting the best,” or is it not about “the best fighting the best”?
Silva vs. Okami rumours were definitely after he broke his hand, are you sure?
http://www.411mania.com/MMA/news/79869/UFC-News:-PPV-Schedule,-Anderson-Silva-vs.-Yushin-Okami,-More.htm
http://mmamania.com/2008/06/18/ufc-88-anderson-silva-vs-yushin-okami-title-fight-still-possible/
It took me, 10 seconds and google to prove you wrong Ivan.
Armando Garcia now works for Fertittas.
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/9/1/1011062/armando-garcia-works-for-the
Is the sport about āthe best fighting the best,ā or is it not about āthe best fighting the bestā?
Of course the sport is about the best fighting the best, what Okami backers don’t seem to understand is that he’s not even close to being the best. Hendo, Nate, Maia, Franklin, even Cote have all better claim than Okami’s ever had at a title shot. Maybe start dominating his opposition and actually proves all this hype surrounding his dq win over Silva he’ll get his shot until then he’s no where near the discussion for a title shot at MW.
LOL, not exactly the same deal that Ratner got when he left the Nevada commission:
“Armando Garcia is now head of security at the Boulder Station Casino in Las Vegas, officially working for the Fertittas in Nevada.”
I wasn’t saying that Okami is “better” than every other middleweight fighter. I was responding to Henry’s comment of, “So, Ivan youāre saying that Okami should of been on the Main Card in December? You do recall, how that fight went and why it was not on the main card?” If the sport is about showcasing the best fighting the best, then Okami would have been on the main card instead of CB Dollaway vs. Mike Massenzio.
It’s not Okami’s fault that he’s only fighting gate-keeper types. UFC keeps saddling Okami with C level guys. In all seriousness, if I were Okami I would try to get out of the UFC contract and go over to DREAM or Sengoku. It’s pretty clear that UFC has ZERO plans for Okami.
And no, I’m not being a Zuffa hater or anything. But you have to be blind to see how crappy Zuffa is treating Okami. I mean, it could be treating him right if you look at giving Okami light opposition as being treated right. But otherwise they aren’t doing shit with him. But his constant injuries aren’t doing him any favors either.
Okami had to pull out of one fight in 2008 and one fight in 2009. He’s far from being David Terell when it comes to pulling out of fights frequently.
Also, nice job by Wolverine of changing what I said. What I wrote was, “Silva-Okami was never announced, booked, or had bout agreements signed.” And after his broken hand recovered, Zuffa showed just how much they intended to give him a title shot by putting him in a prelim. Again, six of his nine UFC fights will have been prelims. Does no one think there’s anything wrong with that?
Why all the blame on the UFC here? If anything, you should be praising them for even having him as a fighter.
The guy’s UFC contract ran out and nobody in Japan wanted to touch him. I bet if it ran out again, nobody in DREAM or Sengoku would care much either. If anything, these are the true villians here. They are not looking for the best, just for entertaining fights….
The UFC is really the only home for guys like him…..
Anyone see the anemic ticket sales and gate for the last WEC? Coupled with a possible Direct TV hit, is the merger into the UFC starting to look more and more like it’s going to happen very soon?
Why all the blame on the UFC here? If anything, you should be praising them for even having him as a fighter.
The guyās UFC contract ran out and nobody in Japan wanted to touch him. I bet if it ran out again, nobody in DREAM or Sengoku would care much either. If anything, these are the true villians here. They are not looking for the best, just for entertaining fightsā¦.
The UFC is really the only home for guys like himā¦..
You can\’t be serious. Wow guys like you are too much into the ufc
wec is definitely going to be absorbed into the ufc. I expect that to happen once they get the flyweight division set up.
This comment is directed @ 45 Huddle for his #37 Comment:
What in the heck are you smoking and tell me you cannot be serious? Are you SUCH a mark for the UFC (I know that you are) that you actually contend that a fighter who is 7-1 inside the UFC should be CUT?
Seriously, what are you thinking…or are you absolutely blinded by the UFC to see any common sense or reason? Because with comments like that, you show that you have none or either.
Ivan you say that Zuffa told that Okami would have recieved the title shot after he had broken his hand, which is obviously not true, the fight had been rumoured before Silva fought Irvin.
What fighting on prelims has to with best not fighting the best? Do you blame HBO for not showing Klitschko vs. Chagaev, two of the best HWs fighting for the undisputed championship? Do you blame HBO for not showing Adamek vs. Cunningham?
Okami would have received the title shot last year after he had built some momentum ko-ing Tanner. Even after he had had this awful fight against Lister he was scheduled to fight Dan Miller on the main card at UFC 98, but he got injured. How can you promote a fighter who’s not only extremely boring, but also injures himself whenever he has a big fight.
#41
First – He didn’t say cut. He said – when Okami’s “ran out” (free agent).
Second – Fighters can only be cut from the UFC after a loss. Okami rarely fights/loses, so he isn’t at a big risk of being cut.
He has had a couple of chances (outlined above), which is more than you can say for some fighters. He just hasn’t managed to capitalize, and otherwise, the opportunities have been few.
What needs to happen is for Okami to be booked with a quality MW to put this argument to rest. Maia looks like he’s free. Having Okami UDing C-level fighters and doesn’t really give him any momentum within the UFC’s unofficial rankings. It’s entirely a waste, except for ensuring that the UFC can cut his opponent after the fight (for losing + being boring).
As usually Ivan’s blind hatred for UFC is on full display here. The best point made in this thread is by Wolverine. Where he points out that Fedor going to Strikeforce to avoid the best competition in his weightclass is great, it’s heroic, fight the power, yadda yadda. But when UFC won’t let Okami put everyone to sleep during a 5 round snoozer against Anderson Silva it’s the UFC won’t show the best, UFC isn’t about the best according to Ivan fighting the best according to Ivan.
Somehow Ivan always tries to say UFC “isn’t a sport”. Is Stirkeforce a sport Ivan?
MMA isn’t simply about winning and losing. It is about how you win and compete. How aggressive you are, how entertaining you are. Did you think John Ruiz or Chris Byrd were the best boxers in the Heavyweight division four years ago?
Fighters compete 2-4 times per year at the UFC level. It is the promoters job to put on the most compelling events and shows.
Nobody cares to see Okami fight. Nobody. It is his own fault. He had a shot against Franklin and squandered it. He should have won that fight but didn’t do anything the first two round.
A fighter getting injured one time in 2008 and one time in 2009 is not getting injured constantly. By that logic, Georges St. Pierre gets injured constantly. He’s had to pull out of fights before as well. He’s certainly not trying to get hurt, nor is Okami. Also, a fight being rumored is a lot different than a fight being signed. Okami vs. Silva was never signed, booked, or announced, and Zuffa never said anything about it until Okami suffered a broken hand.
In response to your question, “What fighting on prelims has to with best not fighting the best?”
If the sport is about showcasing the best fighting the best, then Yushin Okami’s fight should have been on the main card of the December PPV instead of CB Dollaway vs. Mike Massenzio. If that’s not what the sport is about, let’s be upfront about that.
Regarding boxing, yes I would have liked seeing Klitschko vs. Chagaev and Adamek vs. Cunningham on HBO. But it’s an apples-to-oranges comparison because with the boxing business model, HBO is negotiating how much they are willing to pay for a specific fight and the fighters’ promoters are negotiating to try to get the highest bid for their fight from various networks, whereas the UFC is matchmaking a bunch of fighters who are all under exclusive UFC contracts.
I just read the comments below Wolverine’s. Strikeforce has the same problems as the UFC. It’s certainly not just a UFC issue, nor did I ever say that it was. And it doesn’t mean that MMA isn’t a sport, it just means that it’s not truly about “the best fighting the best.” Strikeforce has done their fair share of highly questionable things as well, such as booking Phil Baroni in a main card fight with his MMA record, not having Fedor’s first fight in Strikeforce be for the Strikeforce Heavyweight Championship (or for an Interim Title if Overeem is still holding out), etc.
The fight wasn’t signed, because Okami broke his hand July 22nd, 3 days after Silva had beaten Irvin.
I’m not saying it’s Okami fault he’s getting injured, but I don’t understand how a guy who fought once in last 18 months and the fight was horrible to watch should have a guaranteed place on the main card. He’s not getting cut, he will get paid, but he’s definitely not a fighter who UFC fans want to see on the PPV.
You act like ‘best fighting the best’ is UFC’s only responsibility. When the best HW in the world chooses lesser competition and signs with Strikeforce it’s perfectly fine.
My, my, I am a little behind on my reading!
Shogun/Machida for the LHW Title.
C’mon 45, You’re supposed to be the UFC schill. š
Damn! Pressed submit by accident! It isn’t often I agree with something that 45 says. Foreign guys do get a good push within the UFC sometimes. Where I disagree is “Okami is unreliable.” I don’t think he is next in line, but injuries don’t make a fighter unrelaible, nor do losses to opponents. They make one not next in line for the belt. No more, no less.
I really don’t see how Okami has proven himself to beany less boring than Brandon Vera. Apparently KOing a post-injury Frank Mir years ago cements a huge contract and a position on main cards for life, even after having four snoozefest decisions (Sylvia, Andy, Jardine, Soszynski), an unimpressive win over a nobody (Patt), and a KO loss (Werdum) on the books!