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Nick Diaz gives the middle finger to American fight fans
By Zach Arnold | August 18, 2009
The man who proclaimed that he could beat any drug test and still smoke pot somehow couldn’t find any measure of respect for Scott Coker, Showtime, or Jay Hieron to take a test to get a license to fight in California for Strikeforce’s August 15th card. Diaz had a title shot in place and instead of showing up to take a drug test, he ended up hiding ‘in the mountains’ and away from the California State Athletic Commission.
The reaction to Diaz’s antics from Coker and company make Strikeforce and Showtime look like pushovers. Listen, it’s the fight business — if you can draw money, you get more leeway, and we know that Diaz is a cult-like superstar. However, we also have learned from Dana White and UFC that like professional wrestling, the one tactic that changes and influences behavior in MMA is fear. Nick Diaz doesn’t fear Scott Coker. He doesn’t fear Ken Hershman of Showtime. He doesn’t have to fear anyone because he knows there will always be another sugardaddy ready to give him a second or a third chance and tell him how great he is.
So, with all of this in mind, it should come as no surprise that Nick Diaz now wants to fight in Japan. Coker is playing the “I don’t mind that he fights in Japan, but he fights in December for me” line. Fine. We know that DREAM and Strikeforce will have a co-promotional relationship. However, Nick Diaz and his camp are the same group of people that bitched a while back about DREAM stiffing him on money. So all of a sudden Diaz and company are going to do a U-turn and fight for DREAM again, a company they accused of stiffing them on money in the first place? What a joke.
We all know there’s no drug testing in Japan, so it’s obvious why Diaz is fighting there. What is curious is why Strikeforce, Showtime, and the California State Athletic Commission are willing to sit around and go on Cesar Gracie’s timetable here. Diaz escaped immediate suspension from the CSAC because he failed taking a drug test while getting licensed. However, you would think that the athletic commission would not be so forgiving of a man who has often made a mockery out of drug tests in such a public fashion like he did in The Los Angeles Times.
So, we will likely see Diaz versus Hayato “Mach” Sakurai in a fight that Nick will likely win, which would theoretically set up the fight with Jay Hieron that should have happened last week. Diaz has publicly stated that he wanted to fight Sakurai over a year ago.
Meanwhile, Hieron has to stay on the sidelines for the next four months and somehow put his trust and faith in Nick Diaz a) not getting hurt in Japan and b) actually bothering to show up in November or December for a drug test in order to get licensed. Why should Hieron play this game and end up with no political leverage here? With the news of Diaz fighting in Japan, it’s time for Ken Pavia (Jay Hieron’s manager) to step up to the plate and force the hand of both Scott Coker and Cesar Gracie. Why should Jay Hieron have to wait around for four months and not earn a salary? This is a man who doesn’t have time to waste in his career and has lost out on a lot of money over the last two years.
If Nick Diaz wants to watch his MMA career go up in smoke, fine, let him do it. But why should Ken Pavia let his client, Jay Hieron, sit around and watch his fighter’s career go up in smoke, too, based on what Nick Diaz is up to?
Topics: Media, MMA, StrikeForce, Zach Arnold | 65 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
Actually I don’t understand the hype about Diaz at all. What did he do that he is interesting for any promotion in the US? Especially after obviously using pot?
I don’t want to see him fight in Japan either. He is not incredibly talented nor has he ever shown any respect for his opponents. He is just a mediocre fighter who clearly shows that he does not honour the sport and the fans. Just let him be who he wants to be – a nobody…
Is 4 months an unreasonable amount of time between fights? I’m being serious here. That’s 3 fights a year, which is all that is promised to guys in the UFC. I mean, I feel bad that Hieron is the victim of circumstance, but alternatively;
-Hieron is not guaranteed of success anywhere in MMA, especially in the UFC
-Strikeforce will also have plenty of time to book another welterweight onto the card with an eye for replacing Diaz. They should go book Nick Thompson or Dan Hornbuckle. Neither guy is like super stupendous but they’re certainly passable with similarly strong wins to Diaz of late.
If UFC lays out a card and says here are the dark matches, here’s the main card, and here are the possible ‘swing’ bouts, I’d say at the very least the organization would be able to be up front and tell Jay where he stands. If he’s told he’s on TV, he’s on TV, unlike what happened on the Showtime broadcast where he and Taylor were supposed to be on, then were moved to dark match territory at the last-minute which allegedly cost Hieron sponsorship money.
Right now, at this very moment, trying to compare how UFC and Strikeforce does business is apples and oranges – you pretty much know you’ll fight 3 times a year in UFC and it’s a stable booking. With Strikeforce, the track record on stability is up in the air at this point and why should Jay Hieron sit around and have his career determined by what Nick Diaz is up to?
Neither of those guys have a serious ‘history’ with Strikeforce and would draw less interest than Diaz would.
I get that it sucks that he was bumped to the untelevised portion, but at the same time, he did get to fight. As I said then – there was no guarantee he was getting in a ring a couple weeks before.
Neither of those guys have a serious ‘history’ with Strikeforce and would draw less interest than Diaz would.
That is true. I’m not stating that Strikeforce would outright book them, just to have a backup (as they did with Taylor) in case Diaz doesn’t fight again. I understand the Strikeforce position wholly, and I get that they’re between a rock and a hard place with Diaz. They have to offer him fights, and he’ll likely take them (even if he has no ultimate intention of showing up). Its part of their contract with him. The alternative is letting him loose to sign with the UFC, and they’re not about to do that.
I agree that Diaz has no fear of SF or Showtime. SF has no leverage because they need the name value. However, Coker does need to be tougher with his athletes.
Diaz vs. Sakurai is a pointless fight. Sakurai is not a threat at 170 to most fighters these days.
As for the Nick Diaz hype…. I don’t get it. And his record certainly doesn’t back it up. Outside of beating up a gassed Gomi, he doesn’t have a high level win. He lost to now Lightweights, Noons, Sherk, and Sanchez. He has never beaten a Top 10 Welterweight. And his co-called high level striking is comical. It’s different but not good. And beating a washed up Frank Shamrock doesn’t change that fact.
How can you not get the Nick Diaz hype?
He is a charismatic, entertaining fighter that continually improves his game. His jiu-jitsu is great and his boxing is ever-improving. He doesn’t have a ton of hand power but has great hand speed.
It is a lot of character though, kind of like Melvin Manhoef. Sure, Melvin isn’t the most talented fighter, and he has next to no ground game, it doesn’t make him any less awesome.
Nick Thompson & Dan Hornbuckle are already fighting each other on September 23rd for Sengoku.
Diaz DOES have talent.
But he is not the fighter many hype him up to be.
Can he be that fighter?
Possibly so,…but without the true disipline needed that he has NOT shown, he probably won’t be.
Having charisma is a big plus, but it means nothing if you are going to blow off a drug test and even a fight.
I’m not so sure the UFC would sign him at this moment anyway. They run a very tight ship and to sign a guy that has pulled what he just has wouldn’t make sense or make them look smart.
And even if he did sign with the UFC, it might be the best thing for Diaz himself, as Dana White & Co. would not put up with this type of nonsense, especially if he was under a contract, as they would have total control. He, or his camp, couldn’t say “We’re gonna fight in Japan” with that contract signed.
That may be what Diaz needs to get his head in the right place, a stern hand, but I don’t think the hand wants anything to do with him right now.
If the next SF card is in November, that might be enough time. If not them, find somebody else. I’m just telling you what I see.
Its funny too; the bloggers loved to talk about how the UFC shouldn’t let Couture go when he was having his contract dispute and turning down the Couture fight over and over and cheering them on. I bet you anything if this turns into exactly that with Diaz that they will blame Strikeforce for not letting Diaz go to fight in the UFC. No actual moral difference between the two. Its just completely predictable at this stage.
Agreed with Dave that Diaz has potential to be a superstar. His fights are always exciting, and while he’s a disrespect prick as we’ve seen from Brock Lesnar that sells in MMA, people love to pay to see the prick get his comeuppance.
If Elite weren’t morons, they would have turned that Diaz vs. Noons Family confrontation into the biggest feud of the year, that was awesome footage and they just sat on it. Imagine what running that clip on CBS would have done (and this was before Noons went AWOL.) If he got his shit together he’d be a big name. Is he the greatest fighter in the world? No, but that doesn’t mean he couldn’t be a big draw.
But agreed wth 45 that it’s time for Coker to develop some balls. Between this and the “Cyborg is pregnant” rib, that guy is going to be done in by getting trampled by his own employees forget what Dana does.
The best defense I have for Diaz sometimes is watch the Diego fight, while Diego won, Diaz puts on the most spirited, scrappy fight that was completely entertaining from start to finish.
Couture still had a fight on his contract…
White is what a promoter needs to be like. Fighters can be a real pain to deal with. Having a little fear put in them by White makes things run smoothly. The only problem is that to get a guy with White’s personality, there also comes extra baggage.
I keep laughing at this co-promotion nonsense. Basically Coker wants to use DREAM guys, but can’t afford to let his stars fight over there because he needs to fill main evnt slots. That will make any pact last less ten 6 months.
The other downfal lfor Coker is how thin he us spreading himsel. 20 shows next year and he still has to work with Showtime, M-1, and DREAM. Does he have the staff to pull it off? What will end up suffering is the matchmaking. SF will have solid fights, but they will see too random for casual fans to follow it.
Lastly, back to Diaz. His fanfare is limited to a specific kind if fan. I don’t think he has mass appeal.
Couture still had a fight on his contract…
If Diaz is trying to get out of his contract without fighting again for Strikeforce by trying to screw them (and that is my ultimate interpretation here), so will he. Like I said, no difference, except I anticipate a totally different reaction from people down the line.
Coker may have no choice — his office and administrative staff is so small, he has to rely on co-promotion simply to help get him bodies to help produce shows. You live by the sword, you die by the sword — he has to co-promote events, but you die by it because you aren’t a self-maintained operation that can control all business decisions and production. Part of that is matchmaking control, as well.
There is no doubt in my mind that the UFC would snap Diaz up if Strikeforce released him from his contract. Dana absolutely loves the way he fights and has said he would love to get him back in the UFC on numerous occasions.
However, what the UFC would not do is invest a lot of money in promoting his fights, at least not initially. He would still make the main card, but he would be in the third or fourth fight on the bill, not the first or second. They wouldn’t build a Countdown show around one of his fights until Nick proves himself reliable.
I am a Nick Diaz fan so my opinion is tainted I know it, but how bout holding Scott Coker and Strikeforce more accountable.
That is my view. They allow Diaz to do this, He is vocal about it but I am sure for every honest fighter like Diaz their are many more silent about their abuse and management allows it.
That is were I tend to not be on the same line as the public. I think many judge the messenger(Diaz) instead of judging the message.
People will read the message differently some will say he is challenging authority, others like me will say he is the most honest person in a hypocrite system
Diaz would be back in his previous position headlining UFNs and stuff like that, and that’s fine. He wouldn’t rise above it either, more than likely. But there’s a big place for him there and lots of action fights to make.
My guess is someone got in his ear and told him what the UFC was willing to pay him (theoretically) and he’s looking for any out he can get. Adding to it that Strikeforce offers guys who can beat him and make him look bad like Hieron and the choice of staying and losing or leaving and making FOTN bonuses with Chris Lytle sounds good.
People don’t hold Coker accountable, not because they’re biased against all of Dana’s rivals (Gary Shaw certainly got raked over his coals his whole MMA career), but because nobody takes him seriously as a leader. I’m not saying he should lose his dignity and act like an embarrassing buffoon like Dana, but he needs to stop acting like a doormat and tell his fighters and their agents that if they’re going to cash his paychecks they’re going to play by his rules.
Here is an interesting article from Sherdog relating to possible CSAC rule changes to compensate for the use of marijuana. I wasn’t aware Diaz had a previous agreement with Elite XC for testing.
http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/diaz-eyes-oct-dream-rep-meets-with-csac-19178
I can speak for myself and the few fans I know – I have no interest in seeing Nick Diaz fight again. He is not even close to a serious athlete and this latest charade proves it. And don’t mention his talent, lots of talented guys have thrown it away for nothing (Mark Kerr, Ricco Rodriguez). Due to his chosen path, which he obviously does not want to change, he will never rise about the cult status he has gained while his more serious brother will continue to do well as long as he remains a legitimate athlete. I could care less about his pot addiction, but he must play within the rules – like everyone else.
I say good riddance to a thug portraying himself as a ‘warrior’. Enjoy Japan – they love freakshows.
Zach do you have a man crush on Jay Hieron? It seems like half of your posts recently are about how he has been mistreated. Maybe you should friend him on facebook..
Ed. — Enough, already.
I think the UFC has gotten in the ear of many fighters. And not just Diaz and Shields…. But the Heavyweights as well.
With Affliction the gameplan was simple… Don’t match the offers and let Affliction hang themselves on their overpriced fighters.
With Strikeforce it’s completely the opposite. Make strong offers to all their credible fighters. Strikeforce has two options:
1. Match the UFC and pay above market price to keep the fighters they have already invested in. This will hurt them financially, and likely can only do this once or twice.
2. Lose fighters to the UFC, making them seem weak (and a feeder system). And trying to build up new stars every two years from scratch is nearly Impossible.
Either way, I don’t see how this can work for Strikeforce. The guys like Diaz will continue to duck solid opponents until their contracts are up. So not only will Strikeforce be losing a fighter, they won’t even get a good fight out of him before he leaves.
If you need some proof of this…. Why haven’t they signed Fedor’s opponent yet? Even if a guy like Brett Rogers (who has 1 fight left on his contract) were to agree to fight Fedor… Strikeforce won’t do it without a contract extension (and lose the #1HW title). And Rogers is unlikely to accept the fight without a big money offer from Strikeforce…. And he will definitly het one from the UFC as long as he doesn’t lose his next fight….
Difficult times for Coker….
Anyone still doubting that Diaz is ducking Jay Hieron?
“Diaz escaped immediate suspension from the CSAC because he failed taking a drug test while getting licensed.”
when did this happen?
In spite of me not watching, Strikeforce got a big rating, but to the surprise of no one, the UFC 100 replay was watched by more people. What did I say last week?
The Carano/Cyborg fight could be a success by the standards of Showtime and the predictable running counter will be how many more people watched the replayed fights and the doom it spells.
And that’s exactly what’s playing out. Again. Yawn.
People need to read Mark’s comment (#18) carefully, because that sums up the deal with Coker. Coker is basically the little cousin nobody fucked with because he just wanted to hang out with the big kids and was a cool little guy.
Now somebody gave him a chance to be on their level and he might not be ready and isn’t going to be taken seriously unless he stops acting like little cuz and more like the man in charge of the #2 MMA promotion in the US.
Very good rating for Showtime. As Alan said, it’s still a fraction of what the UFC got.
First, the UFC 100 wasn’t even advertised that well, and was only announced I think within a week of it’s airing. I don’t even remember getting an email from it from the UFC. If it was properly advertised, it could have done probably closer to 3 Million.
Second, that rating for Showtime is likely not going to be reproduced for a while. Kind of like what we saw with Faber/Pulver. It will be a spike in the ratings due to a fight people really were interested in, and that’s about it.
What was the Strikeforce rating?
Around 576,000 viewers. UFC 100 got around 2 Million. And in the all important males 18-34… The UFC beat them 513,000 to 181,000.
The REAL Issue for Jay Hieron is that Strikeforce showed only 4 fights. This is COMPLETELY unacceptable…
A fish rots from the head down. Nick doesn’t care because Scott doesn’t care
Basically, the number is good enough to guarantee that Strikeforce will end up on CBS as is ranked as a “success”. A pretty big one, in fact.
I’m not really interested in refuting or arguing the other talking points about this leading Strikeforce to doom or it proving the inability for Strikeforce to reach an audience when they reach a peak of over 800K on Showtime. No one wants to hear that anyways. Guys like 45 want them to fail, and if they had a 50 share on CBS, they’d still repeat that the UFC will crush them.
Until some company starts stealing a large number of UFC fans away, it makes no sense to think any differently.
Carano made $125,000. Melendez & Werdum made $50,000. Hieron made $55,000. Babalu made $75,000.
Cyborg made $25,000.
There is definitely a limit to how much Strikeforce can pay to it’s fighters….
856,000 viewers in the main is really a tremendous number. If they went longer the whole show would have done better, but that’s the nature of MMA ratings.
The success is still more for Gina than Strikeforce, but I think Strikeforce can build on these numbers for Fedor. Will be very interesting to see what Fedor’s first fight draws compared to Carano, seeing as he’s probably making 10 times more.
That’s a real solid number. Especially on Showtime. You have to figure a lot of households had several people over since not many people get Showtime.
I’m curious to see what the gate drew. Anyone know what SF’s rights deal is? It’s going to be tough for SF to pay Fedor, a legit opponent, have a decent undercard and turn a profit. Especially if M-1 has it’s hand in the kitty.
You can’t really compare the ratings a basic cable channel gets compared to a pay television network that is far behind HBO for subscribers. Showtime has 13 million subscribers compared to HBO’s 30 million and the over 100 million who have basic cable.
If its anything like what was rumored before, they get something like 800K for the rights to broadcast. Given that they spend like $4 on the untelevise portion of the card (other than the bumped Hieron fight) along with their live gate, which was apparently under a million but pretty strong still, I wouldn’t be shocked to find out they made money. They aren’t paying off $50 million in debt from buying club show promotions, so that helps.
I’m not sure who that is aimed at, Mark. I agree with you. That’s why I say 800,000 on Showtime is really probably well North of 1,000,000 since a lot of people had to go over someone’s house to see it. Instead of maybe having 2 people in the house you have 8. Same holds true for UFC PPVs when you’re talking numbers of eyeballs vs numbers of buys.
I’m sure Showtime is very pleased with the rating.
It was directed at 45 bragging about the Spike numbers beating Showtimes numbers, not to you.
Ah, got ya, Mark.
Alan, thanks for the info. They should have turned a healthy profit here. They’re going to need to get to PPV or get big money from CBS to afford Fedor and an opponent though. Fedor is going to basically eat up the gate. Anyone who fights him is going to want considerable money.
Coker is a pretty smart cookie though. I’m curious to know what his co-promotion deal with M-1 is. Was he clever enough to make them pay for Fedor’s purse in exchange for Japanese and Russian TV rights?
Good for Diaz.
In his forcing the issue of medi-cann, he is fighting the bigger battle against corporate hypocrisy and their frequent re-interpretation of the law.
The guy is hyper, he smokes pot to focus, it works, its a legal drug in many states including Ca.
It’s against the US constitution for the csac to prevent Diaz from pursuing happiness and his work because he uses a legal herb. The CSAC should be fined and forced to pay Diaz’s purse for this fight. Its not Diaz’s fault they are “not with it”
If the CSAC was in fact “concerned” with fighter safety they could look into the possible production of a pre-fight pot pill as a neural protective for fighters brains.
grafdog actually has a good point that Nick Diaz didn’t get paid due to all of this as well. I’m pretty sure he isn’t happy with that. Not a great excuse, but still a truth.
As for the Strikeforce numbers, you knew 45 was going to be the elephant in the room and give us UFC numbers because, well, that is what he does.
Ok, I don’t think that is fair, so let’s compare Strikeforce with WEC. Strikeforce is on a premium cable network and did better numbers than WEC on a basic cable network (on most, not all networks).
WEC has been around longer, gets promoted on air during UFC events and shares talent with UFC.
The last WEC drew a larger TV audience then the last Showtime card.
And CA is not breaking the law or getting the way of his constitutional rights. There are many legal substances that are banned for use in competition. This is perfectly legal.
People weren’t making a huge deal of the WEC during te first Pulver vs. Facer fight. Not sure why they are here. Not are huge variations in the ratings to see one super fight, and not a trend in TV ratings.
Antonio Rogerio Nogueira likely heading to the UFC according to his brother and manager.
Mousasi is officially out of challengers at Light Heavyweight.
“It’s against the US constitution for the csac to prevent Diaz from pursuing happiness and his work because he uses a legal herb.”
I think you are confusing you state and federal governments.
Marijuana is not a legal herb according the US federal government. The fact that California has a medical marijuana law does not matter one whit as far as they are concerned.
Why Hasn’t anyone in the MMA media covered this angle of the story?
Return of the King. Elite xc
Jay Heiron throws 3 or 4 sucker punches at Nick Diaz while he is trying to leave the cage.
I would have done the same shit to Heiron If I were Nick.
45 – You are comparing apples and oranges…
Showtime is a paid subscriber service one which most people buying a paid subscriber services pass on to get HBO. Their viewership is extremely limited. Spike and Versus are on basic cable. It’s EASY to outdraw a Showtime show with basic cable.
Your numbers aren’t a fair comparison and I’m sure you’re aware of this but still happy to parrot the Zuffa company line today anyway.
Let’s compare Kimbo’s CBS rating to UFC 100 if we’re going to compare ridiculously stupid numbers. Kimbo outdrew the biggest UFC event of all time! Wait, UFC was on PPV so that limited viewership? Doesn’t matter since all numbers are relative in 45’s eyes.
Rp
graphdog, You will not find anyone who is more for the legalization of marijuana than me. However, your argument is outlandish. Competing in MMA is not a right protected by the Constitution.
I don’t want to get too involved in Constitutional Law here. Fighting is a privilege. It is also regulated, at this time. There are many limitations as to who can and under what circumstances a person can compete.
Would you allow a mentally disabled person to compete in MMA. What about Kyle Maynard? Would you let a person in a vegetative state fight if their legal guardian signed the contract? How about a paraplegic? Would you let a fighter who had been knocked out cold last night fight today?
I would hope you answered “No” to all of the above possible situations. We then have established that MMA is not a right granted by the Constitution.
I don’t think the CSAC should test for pot. I also don’t think they should test for pain pills, Adderall or steroids. However, at this time they do. Those are the requirements to compete professionally in California as pursuant to the standards of the CSAC.
Nick Diaz can go fight in Japan or an Indian Reservation or one of the unregulated or lax U.S. States.
When Marijuana gets legalized, and I believe it will, there will still be jobs that forbid you from smoking it. Just as there are jobs, airline pilots, tug boat captains and others that specify when you can and cannot consume alcohol in relation to your time on the job. Those are not violations of the Constitution.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I seem to remember Diaz’s marijuana test for the Gomi fight being so high (no pun intended) they were almost certain he had smoked pot that day, or even immediately prior to the fight. Alcohol is legal, but you can’t fight drunk so medicinal use is a non-issue. Also remember that anti-depressants that hamper reflexes are banned as well, so medicinal use is a non-issue to the CSAC. He’s free to smoke pot between fights.
RP,
It’s not as different as you might think.
Taking boxing for example. A fan of boxing is much more likely to have HBO because that is how they can watch their sport. So a boxing match on HBO that gets 1 Million viewers wouldn’t automatically get 2.25 Million if it was on cable (40 Million for HBO and 95 Million for Cable).
Same rule applies for MMA on Showtime. Many of the people who know about Gina Carano and want to watch her likely already have Showtime.
As for Kimbo…. Of course he was a big draw. But he was not a money maker. Plus, those ratings were impossible to continue over time once Kimbo was proven to be less then championship level. Same principle applies to Gina Carano. And the most important concept here, is $$$$$$$.
The Carano/Cyborg fight did not have the highest attendance for a Strikeforce card, and the average ticket price was ~$53. The average price of the UFC 101 ticket was slightly above $200. Not to mention those fights could be sold on PPV for what some think will be north of 800,000 PPV Buys.
At the end of the day, Strikeforce suffers from the same exact problem the WEC does. They have already given away the big fights for free. It is now very very hard to expect people now pay for them.
CBS will only provide so much income, mostly likely a flat fee for Strikeforce. That can’t compete with the revenues the UFC is pulling in from PPV.
Just look at the revenues for this event. It’s obvious Strikeforce has a limited budget. They can’t afford what a lot of these fighters will be offered from the UFC in the future. They can hold onto a few, but will likely lose more of them.
At the end of the day, ratings need to equal revenues. And while Strikeforce is likely making a small profit, that’s not enough….