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What to make of the Josh Barnett story regarding a reported failed CSAC drug test
By Zach Arnold | July 21, 2009
Sherdog reports that either Vitor Belfort or Bobby Lashley will get a chance to face Fedor. If I’m Belfort, I take that fight immediately no matter what the outcome is. This would be a golden ticket for him and could you imagine what Dana White would be willing to pay him if he somehow pulled off the upset? UFC would mark out like crazy. As for Lashley, avoid this fight at all costs. No reason to take it. I disagree with Dave Meltzer’s assertion that Lashley would be in a no-lose situation taking the fight.
Fightlinker sums up the Barnett story in a simple manner.
Barnett was scheduled for day two of a two-day conference call session that starts on Wednesday to hype up the upcoming Affliction event. When asked whether or not audio of the conference call would be available to members of the media, the PR staff said ‘no audio.’
There is a bigger lesson to be learned here when thinking about this story. The lesson to be learned is that out-of-competition drug testing works and that drug testing right before and right after a fight is nice and everything, but it doesn’t ultimately catch a lot of the cheaters. Drug testing at events makes for nice PR more than it does make for great policy.
Which is something that Ivan Trembow has long-focused on and deserves a lot of credit for. Nevada was the first to push for out-of-competition drug testing, but the commission (lead by Keith Kizer) has been all over the place in terms of being inconsistent of enforcing the policy. You don’t know what events or if/when it will happen with the NSAC, whereas California (a bankrupt state I know much about) even in a bad fiscal situation managed to do out-of-competition drug testing.
So now that out-of-drug competition has allegedly busted a prominent fighter, let’s see which MMA writers want to step up to the plate and actually start asking legitimately tough questions to athletic commissioners about the implementation of out-of-competition drug testing. If MMA wants to be taken as a serious sport and athletic commissioners want to be fully trusted by the public as opposed to being little more than glorified PR spokespeople for promoters who pay a % of the event gates, then the focus by hardcore MMA fans and writers should be on enforcing a consistent out-of-competition drug testing policy. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.
Topics: Affliction, Media, MMA, Zach Arnold | 89 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
Bobby Lashley would be killing his career with a loss to Fedor Emelianenko. Plain and simple. The UFC would be hesitant to pick him up after that blemish. If he had lost to another fighter, it probably wouldn’t be half as big of a deal. But because the loss would be to Fedor…. If Lashley were to win the UFC title, White wouldn’t be happy.
I agree about Belfort taking the fight. He has nothing to lose. He already has some big losses in his career, and there is much more upside to a win then downside for a loss.
With that said, it still stinks. Belfort/Santiago was a huge fight for that card. And Fedor fighting ANOTHER Middleweight doesn’t do anything for his standing as the best Heavyweight in the world.
Also expect Dana White to have hours upon hours of sh!t talk about Fedor for now fighting another smaller fighter.
Vitor poses a very interesting matchup to Fedor. Fedor hasn’t fought a lot of southpaws. CroCop gave him some trouble with standup early in that fight, before the restart.
Vitor is also extremely fast and can throw combinations. Vitor has also looked increasingly confident in his last two fights. This is a complete no-lose fight for him. He’s going to be outweighed by 20-30lbs and it will be no shame to lose to Fedor. Vitor can go out guns blazing from the start and look to land the big shot.
out-of-competition drug testing is the only real way to stop the drug cheats. This sux as I was really looking forward to this fight but rules are rules. Bobby Lashley would be out of his mind to fight Fedor!!
Hypothetical…
Vitor Belfort beats Fedor Emelianenko. Vitor Belfort signs on with the UFC, but as a Middleweight.
The linear title would have been broken. Does Brock Lesnar become the #1 Heavyweight in the world at that point?
Yes, he does. Barnett for failing a drug test would be yanked out of the Independent rankings. Fedor would be #1, but if he lost to Belfort, he goes down and Brock takes over.
I bet Fedor won’t accept a fight with Vitor. If so I wonder if Affliction just sells its assets to UFC. They’ve cancelled half their shows already.
If Dana can work out a deal you can have Fedor save the Sept show and fight Brock on New Years.
My anti-spam word is juiced!
Now then….
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
*RAGE*
The athletes not knowing exactly when they may be tested (ie, on the day before the fight or day of the fight) is vital to the effectiveness of catching dopers in any drug testing program.
Even with the out-of-competition drug testing programs for MMA and boxing in Nevada and California, fighters have 48 hours to submit to a drug test from the time that they’re notified that they need to take a drug test.
In any other major sport, they would be required to take the drug test immediately.
Obviously, the NSAC and CSAC can’t send people to fighters’ homes to collect urine samples, but they could certainly require fighters to provide a urine sample at a nearby lab within a few hours.
I am just going to copy and past a post I mad eon another message board about this issue:
“It’s funny that two big heavyweight MMA matches (Alistair Overeem vs. Fabricio Werdum in Strikeforce and Fedor vs. Barnett in Affliction) have both been canceled.
Let the UFC and Dana White conspiracies begin!!
Oh, and a suitable replacement for the injured Overeem? Who else than Brett Rogers? Actually, now that I think of it, he would be a good opponent for Fedor. A big man who hits hard with a puncher’s chance against Fedor? Yes please!”
Anyone else agree on Brett Rogers? And you know if this happened in Strikeforce, they would just have Nick Diaz fight Fedor. Hell, I’m half-surprised that they didn’t throw Nick Diaz at Werdum and have him pull double duty!
“There is a bigger lesson to be learned here when thinking about this story. The lesson to be learned is that out-of-competition drug testing works and that drug testing right before and right after a fight is nice and everything, but it doesn’t ultimately catch a lot of the cheaters.”
That is assuming of course that Barnett who’s tested positive beforewouldn’t have tested positve after his fight with Fedor which I don’t. I’m going to be very interested to see what Josh did get popped for and I pray it isn’t weed because then i’m going to have to go on a rant defending him.
Anyways for me the Strikeforce show has nothing going to for it at all, thank god the WEC has a show I need my mma fix. And as far as Affliction goes good ridance after they pulled their latest press release stunt, it’s time to put the final nails in their coffin see ya t-shirt guy.
It’s strange that Brett Rogers name didn’t come up. This early in his career and with a week notice, people would forgive him for a loss to Fedor.
But Affliction is screwed. That must be the final blow.
It would be really silly of Rogers management to take such fight in 10 days notice.
I don’t think you guys understand what is being done with Lashley. The dude is being heavily protected with the idea that at some point, the UFC or someone with money would need a heavyweight capable of drawing a couple eyes based on freakshow buys from wrestling fans. Seriously. They were never going to take a 12/12 contract. If they get enough money that it becomes a “cash out” scenario with Fedor, they will take the fight. Period. And they should.
It would be really silly of Rogers management to take such fight in 10 days notice.
It was silly of them to take a Arlovski fight. Fedor is a much bigger theoretical prize and the payoff will likely be much greater too. They or anyone else outside the UFC offered this fight would be fools not to take it.
Also: Zero interest in Belfort/Fedor. I don’t think Vitor can beat Santiago, much less Emelianenko.
Assuming this story is true (e.g., Kimo)-
What if:
CSAC botched the test: collection, transport, processing or interpretative error.
The fight is then canceled, is CSAC or the contracted labs liable for negligence/malpractice?
@ Alan
Arlovski fight wasn’t a 10-day notice, and it was good stylistic match-up. Even if Rogers was training for Overeem, AA is also a stand-up fighter. And with Andrei’s chin, Rogers people could count on that, that once he puts hands on him, it’ll be over. For Fedor you need some serious all-round MMA training, clinch takedown defense, sub defense, stand-up defense for his awkward style and with Fedor’s massive chin you also can’t anticipate a flash KO.
What’s more Rogers is under contract with Strikeforce, I guess Coker would have to agree to let it happen. I don’t know if ruining your top HW prospect at other promotion event is smart thing to do.
He has a punchers chance. That chance is enough that I’d gladly send him in against Fedor. Worst case scenario, he loses, just like pretty much any of the other guys you have under contract would. Best case scenario, one of his big ol’ paws lands and you’ve got yourself the consensus #1 heavyweight among rankings systems not belonging to 45 Huddle.
lol, my word was “Juiced” as well.
This really is the scenario that can lead to a big upset. A usually focused fighter has been spending months maping out a strategy against a opponent, that opponent pulls out and suddenly they’ve got a matter of days to figure out who they are fighting and how they’re going to do it. Suddenly they’re out of that comfort zone. And their opponent is coming in with a “nothing to lose and everything to gain” attitude. When you come in like that you’re much looser and tend to take chances that could lead to the big upset you wouldn’t usually have.
Now, I’m not saying Belfort or Lashley is going to beat the #1 heavyweight in MMA history. But if it did happen, if the Fedor enigma ended on this lackluster note, I wouldn’t be that shocked.
Fucking Barnett.
If Barnett vs. Fedor is off this is a huge disappointment.
This was the last non-UFC fighter I believe would have a chance at dethroning Fedor, and this would have been a perfect last show for Affliction.
Dammit.
There is no one they could throw in there at this point that would make any sense. Overeem vs. Fedor makes sense in Japan, but not in the US.
Belfort is making an awesome comeback at 185 but let’s get serious: Fedor WILL end up on the ground with him at some point if they face off, and from there it’s academic.
Crap.
What I find most telling in all of this is that Barnett has, from what I have read, never really came out and flat-out denied the test results. He has said “it will be straightened out” and “I will not be defined by this”. To me, that sounds like a guilty man talking.
And Barnett’s previous doping incident gets rid of his “innocent until proven guilty”
Would CSAC even sanction a fight between Vitor and Fedor given the weight difference?
The Strikeforce issue is a big one but Affliction and Strikeforce are partners you never know.
But one thing is for sure, Rogers is the best HW they can get. By a mile.
@ Alan
Did you notice what happens to fighters after Fedor beats them? In my opinion chance of landing one big shot on Fedor is too tiny to risk such fight in 10-days notice. Although I must say, I’d prefer any decent HW like Rogers, Monson, Werdum or Affliction contracted Rothwell or Buentello than MW Belfort or totally green Lashley.
I feel like saying “out-of-competition drug testing works” is just re-iterating a statement that everyone should already know.
I mean, when doesn’t out-of-competition drug testing not work. And who would actually oppose it? I can see sports going head-to-head with it in fear of having star athletes exposed, but ultimately… it’s ALWAYS a good idea if the money is there to support it.
I’m sure there are a lot of fighters who are successfully working the system by cycling off before they know they have a drug test coming up. You’re not going to get the major benefits of steroid use by cycling off a few months before the fight to be able to test clean, but you will get some benefits. And MMA promotions assume it, I’m sure they’re more jaded about doping athletes than fans are since they’re behind the scenes. But they can’t oppose it. Even if it means answering questions about suddenly-shrinking fighters, or having star fighters branded dopers, opposing it would hurt the sport worse.
But the biggest question I have, even more so than who is going to face Fedor is: Is Barnett going to be granted a license again after his second steroid positive test? Is he heading back to Japan for good now?
State license doesn’t make sense for full time professional fighters. If all the AC would put the money they allocate to drug testing into a national fund, they could test every fighter every 2 months, healthy or not.
I don’t blame fighting Fedor for Arlovski walking straight backwards, and I think its silly to think that fighting last second will make him hold out in the future for 6 figure payouts.
Honestly, I’d like to see Monson. He was supposed to fight Fedor before. He’s in shape, has some good recent wins.
Why don’t they just pay Strikeforce and get Werdum? He was training for a fight, so he is going to be in good shape, and he has great jits and is very tough.
> let’s see which MMA writers want to step up to the plate and actually start asking legitimately tough questions to athletic commissioners about the implementation of out-of-competition drug testing.
Josh Gross did it and his statement was easily confuted and outdebatd by Dana White of Zuffa, who’s probably behind Josh Barnett’s case with CSAC as well as Ken Shamrock’s withdrawal from Kimbo fight.
> drug testing right before and right after a fight is nice and everything, but it doesn’t ultimately catch a lot of the cheaters.
Cheating is part of MMA business. Like Bas Rutten said on the internet years ago, those who know how to schedule right cycles of taking anabolics are the ones considered “pros”. If you can’t accept that, then go back to 9-5 routines.
Let me also say that rescheduling the card to some other date would be acceptable to me too. I know there’s a lot of fans out there that will say that the UFC always carries through with the show, but that doesn’t make them promotional geniuses just because they’ll put together a two bit main event to fill out a card. Bob Arum is still running his stupid Latin Fury PPV and both of his headliners are off the card. Doesn’t mean its smart.
This is why it is so dangerous to build a MMA company around one fighter. Yes, Affliction signed a bunch of guys, but without Fedor, there business plan (which made no sense to begin with), would have been an even bigger failure. MMA organizations need to realize that they must build promotions off of MULTIPLE STARS. Not 1 star like WFA (Rampage), EliteXC (Kimbo), or Affliction (Fedor). And especially not like the IFL which built it off no stars.
When that star gets injured or beaten…. Or his opponent gets injured…. The card (and the company) is in ruins. This happened with Kimbo. This happened twice now with Affliction. This isn’t boxing. It just doesn’t work.
Alan C said: “Best case scenario, one of his big ol’ paws lands and you’ve got yourself the consensus #1 heavyweight among rankings systems not belonging to 45 Huddle.”
Um no. If a Heavyweight beats Fedor, then the rankings look like this: 1.??? 2.Fedor 3.Lesnar….. If Fedor loses to a guy who is not a Heavyweight, it looks like this: 1.Lesnar 2.Fedor.
rainrider said: “by Dana White of Zuffa, who’s probably behind Josh Barnett’s case with CSAC as well as Ken Shamrock’s withdrawal from Kimbo fight.”
I love it when people have these crazy things to say about Dana White…. Especially when the lack any credibility. Just shows how much people just WANT to hate on White. These companies are failing on their own. Plain & simple.
Alan C said: “Let me also say that rescheduling the card to some other date would be acceptable to me too.”
That makes no sense. They have already put money into this show. Not recouping any money now would give them 0% chance of booking a next show. Not to mention how downright wrong it would be to the fighters. And, when would they rebook it for? It would have to at least be 6 months if not a year from now if they want Fedor/Barnett. And no other Heavyweight outside of the UFC makes sense for selling PPV’s. Affliction is screwed here.
What a plonker. Glad he’s been caught and hopefully a lot more get caught too… assuming that a lot more are cheating.
That makes no sense. They have already put money into this show. Not recouping any money now would give them 0% chance of booking a next show.
Personally, I’m a bit sick of hearing about Affliction’s impending death. Its getting close to “MMA in Japan is collapsing! Everyone will be out of business any day now!” type hype. Look, if you don’t have a main event, you don’t run the show. It should be basic, but instead people argue that its not because UFC 85 went on anyways or whatever. They aren’t the UFC.
There’s other options with a cancellation that aren’t available just hotshotting Belfort/Fedor. But it doesn’t matter, because it seems likely that’ll be what happens.
As a non-smoking, pro MJ guy myself… Even if he got busted for smoking, it would still be beyond stupid. Once you get caught, you need to be extra careful not to use around the time of a fight.
I think this put Josh Barnett in the same catagory as Alexander Emelianenko. Two talented Heavyweights who due to issues with the commissions will likely never be taken as serious contenders again. Little Fedor with his Hep B. And Barnett with his second positive test.
I didn’t think Barnett had a chance. Actually, I would give Belfort a better chance at beating Fedor. Still, if he won, he could have been in line for a huge UFC contract. He threw that all away…..
“Personally, I’m a bit sick of hearing about Affliction’s impending death.”
Just because it has been a slow, painful death… Doesn’t mean it wasn’t worth talking about.
And the likely only reason they have continued to put on shows is because a lot of their contracts required 3 paydays per fighter, whether they fought or not. So putting on a show means recouping some of the losses, but never actually breaking even.
The option of canceling it isn’t an option. If there was another Heavyweight to make a new PPV out of in 3 months it would be. Even Tito Ortiz would not fight Fedor right now, and Ortiz is the only big draw as a free agent.
They have to put on the show and let the chips fall….. It’s the lesser of two evils.
When will we find out what he tested positive for?
Just because it has been a slow, painful death… Doesn’t mean it wasn’t worth talking about.
And the likely only reason they have continued to put on shows is because a lot of their contracts required 3 paydays per fighter, whether they fought or not. So putting on a show means recouping some of the losses, but never actually breaking even.
Has anyone actually heard that from a decent source? I’ve seen a bunch of message board posters talking about that. Big whoop. I’ve also heard that its the equivalent of why Red Bull runs a airplane racing series that bleeds money.
The option of cancelling it isn’t an option. If there was another Heavyweight to make a new PPV out of in 3 months it would be. Even Tito Ortiz would not fight Fedor right now, and Ortiz is the only big draw as a free agent.
Of course its an option. Its a better one than Belfort/Fedor, for sure. But like I said, its irrelevant because they’re gonna proceed.
I believe Cindy O on the UG talked about it. She has been very credible in the past.
[…] Zach Arnold and Josh Barnett seem tight, I was interested to hear what he had to say on the whole Josh Barnett popping positive thing. Surprisingly enough he took the tack that this […]
Not sure how credible these guys are, but it seems legit:
http://mma.fanhouse.com/2009/07/22/tom-atencio-josh-barnett-out-vs-fedor-emelianenko-card-still/
I believe Cindy O on the UG talked about it. She has been very credible in the past.
Well, that changes everything! LOL. When we’re relying on the credibility of message board posters on the UG, the media of this sport are in trouble. Hell, look at that embarassment yesterday that was Steve4192’s validation. He must feel like a genius this morning after lambasting everyone about how many websites just rely on each others echos as “sources”.
The conspiracy bug has infected this site big time lately. Last week it was revealed Dave Meltzer is the shadow owner of the UFC, like MMA’s Cigarette Smoking Man or something. This week Dana is back in power and has control over athletic commissions to order them to drug test fighters from other companies at his command. Wow.
hmm… looks like they’re considering Arona as well, not bad since some think he actually beat Fedor in their Rings match.
They’ve got a quote from Vitor as well here:
http://mma.fanhouse.com/2009/07/22/lashley-rogers-belfort-and-arona-considered-as-possible-barnet/
Don’t know why they’re not talking to Werdum & Strikeforce, seems logical, and at least he’s a heavyweight.
Doesn’t really matter where they post the information, it’s about the credibility of who is delivering it. Just like Loretta Hunt is the editor of Sherdog and lacks a lot of credibility when writing about the UFC. Posters like Golden Boy & Cindy O have shown on multiple occassions to be credible and “in the know” when it comes to solid information. And both are rarely wrong.
As for Ricardo Arona…. He hasn’t fought in how long? And wasn’t he supposed to come back as a Middleweight?
Arona would be the worst possible choice. Few in America know who he is (way less than know Barnett and Fedor) and he doesn’t have a good record of entertaining fights by any means. If he were to defeat Fedor, he would do it in a very lackluster manner with no possible way to plug him as your new star.
People freaked out about Elite having to push Seth Petruzelli after he beat Kimbo (before they went under.) I cannot begin to imagine the strategy anybody would use to push Ricardo Arona as a superstar. At least if Lashley were to beat him you could push him as your Brock Lesnar, or if Vitor were to beat him at least he has some charisma and is known in America. Arona, not so much.
STEROIDS!!!
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/7/22/957951/fox-fight-game-with-mike-straka#comments
Barnett has officially killed his ability to fight in America for at least a year. And likely ever again.
It’s one thing to get popped once for roids like a Sylvia, Sherk, or Marquardt…. If you get hit a second time, you don’t deserve to be fighting the best anymore….
I’m not particularly interested in arguing the credibility of various message board posters. If that’s what all we’re going on, then there’s a problem. Oddly, that’s what it looks like this newfangled MMA media is; an echo chamber.
Alan,
That’s like newspaper writers discrediting bloggers because the forum in which they choose to put out their information. In today’s world, it isn’t as much a matter of where the information is coming from as it is the credibility of the source.
Both have been credible on multiple occassions. I know you just want to be right here, but if the information came from her, it is credible.
Cindy O works for ZUFFA…
She can deny it all she wants but anyone with half a brain can see it.
According to Dave Meltzer…. Josh Barnett’s positive test did not come from a random drug test. Josh choose that test date because he needed to get his license again.
Makes Barnett seem even dumber.
Random drug testing is nice, but CA is in massive debt. I doubt they will do it again for a while.