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Quote of the Week – Hyping Brock Lesnar’s Importance
By Zach Arnold | July 16, 2009
From this week’s edition of The Wrestling Observer Newsletter:
It was the most eventful week in the history of North American MMA. It was the biggest show, the biggest gathering of fans, and by far the most publicity and media coverage.
When the dust cleared, Brock Lesnar became the most talked about fighter in the history of the sport.
Kazushi Sakuraba was just a figment of our imaginations. “Royce, can you hear me?”
Topics: Media, MMA, UFC, Zach Arnold | 29 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
Is the Brock Hype really as significant as Sakuraba becoming a cross over Japanese Hero? Surely not!!
Now, now, Zach we all know that anything that happens outside of America doesn’t count!
If anyone wants more proof that pro wrestling fans are pushing the idea that Brock Lesnar’s success in some way validates pro wrestling just read Joe Babinsack’s article at WO/F4W.com. Here’s the key excerpt:
Keith – the more the Lesnar pro-wrestling boosters talk, the more they validate everything I’ve argued post-UFC 100 about why they are pushing him so hard and trying to use the Sakuraba template as the conquering pro-wrestler who became the face of MMA and the ace of UFC.
The greatest irony in all of this is that the Lesnar pro-wrestling boosters (fans and media types who see $$$ signs both for them and for UFC) are basically throwing under the bus the original pro-wrestling ace of the MMA era in Sakuraba who accomplished so much more than Brock has and ever will on so many business and fighting levels.
I hope someone tries to make the argument that Lesnar is ‘more talked about’ than either Royce or Sakuraba. It may end up being the dumbest ‘mainstream’ media argument in a long time.
Babbysack is seriously the worst person to post stuff on the WO site, which is crazy when you think about it.
I thought Dan Severn validated pro wrestling in mma? Dan put on a much better show than brock(5 fights/no suplex)lesner.
Once again Meltzer is correct.
Sakuraba was big in Japan and nowhere else, Lesnar is more well known and brings in more $$$$.
I don’t remember Sakuraba’s fights being shown live on Televisa in Mexico, or packing bars in Canada and the US to see his fights, when was there a Sakuraba fight that was show cased in over 70 countries, and when has Sakuraba ever been close to being the most web searched subject in the world like Lesnar has recently after his fight.
I’m glad someone is bringing up the “news” argument here.
Sakuraba had nearly a decade-long run as an ace in PRIDE (and then when he jumped to HEROs when PRIDE started to sink) where he was a headline story in all the major broadsheets (Tokyo Sports, Nikkan Sports, Sankei Sports) and also occasionally in major papers like Asahi Shimbun. The circulation of these papers is enormous in sheer numbers and Sakuraba also had a significant television platform (first with Fuji TV for PRIDE, then TBS with HEROs/K-1).
Sakuraba headlined shows that drew in the upper teens and early 20s for ratings on free TV (not cable). And when it came to newspaper coverage, he was often a headline story in one or all newspapers for: a) training sessions or press conferences to hype up a fight, b) the day of the fight, and c) the day after the fight (or two, even).
I hope to God your reply was a parody. The claim is that Lesnar “is the most talked about fighter in the history of the sport.” No he’s not. You can name a laundry list of guys who’ve received as much if not more ink than Lesnar – from Royce to Ken (Shamrock) to Sakuraba to even Liddell or (gulp) Tito.
BTW, Lesnar’s run in Japan was disastrous. He headlined probably the lowest paid attended show in the history of the Tokyo Dome in October ’03. FWIW, his win over Mir got miniscule coverage in Japan in the newspapers.
What happens in Japan, stays in Japan. They have little relevence in the rest of the world.
The UFC has a larger presence around the world, even in their early stages of global expansion. This would make Lesnar a bigger star.
More people in the world know Brock Lesnar’s name than Sakuraba’s name, that is not even a question. UFC is global, whereas Pride was big in Japan and to a tiny number of MMA hardcores. UFC and Brock have been the biggest topics on Twitter and on various search engines and the UFC videogame has sold 3 million copies already. UFC 100 probably did 1.3 million ppv buys. It is a juggernaut. Nobody is disputing that Saku was an amazing fighter and hugely popular (need only look at the TV ratings or the number of asses in seats there were) but really I don’t think he is anywhere near as famous as Lesnar or Royce or Chuck or Tito or even Fedor, who was popular enough in his home country to carry the Olympic torch.
There is still a certain level of fanboyism going on in MMA. The long time fans (which I am one of them)…. Want to hold onto the glory days and act like it has great importance then today. It didn’t. The sport today, on so many levels, is much better then it was during the Sakuraba era. Not to mention Sakuraba was built up with some real trickery on Pride’s part. He was talented, but never as good as they wanted to make him appear. He had literally the perfect style to fight one dimensional BJJ guys. He was a fish out of water against competent strikers and more well rounded athletes.
This is the same people hating on Zuffa while supporting Fedor as their last grasp at something special.
Let’s face it, what is happening now in the UFC is the biggest that the sport has ever been. And these stars are the biggest in the sport. They are well tested, superior athletes, that are on top of the sport due to winning and being better fighters…. Not crooked refs, officialls, and really crafty matchmaking.
PRIDE was televised in Brazil and South Korea, and I want to say their events were on Eurosport too along with K-1 and Hero’s. Could be wrong there. It really doesn’t matter though. If 20-30 million people in Japan were watching Sakuraba matches (and they were), that’s pretty much insurmountable. Doesn’t mean that people didn’t see it. UFC 100 had a 13.3 rating overall in Mexico. I have no idea what the hell that means and neither does anyone else, but it beat a nationally televised league soccer game by a couple tenths, so I assume its probably pretty decent. But it ain’t 20-30 million.
Thanks Zach for cleaning up my earlier post. I think Zach’s point, that the amount of mainstream publicity UFC 100 and Lesnar garnered in his culture is a mere fraction of the publicity that Pride and Sakuraba garnered in their culture in their heyday, is a fair comparison to make. Want to make a more recent comparison? Then compare the media coverage of UFC 100 in America to Misawa’s death in Japan and consider which was the bigger news story in their respective countries. I’m sure if you’re in the Zuffa bubble it’s easy to ignore these things.
“He was a fish out of water against competent strikers and more well rounded athletes.”
One must remember thast Sakuraba, who stood about 6’0″ and, walked around at 175 had to gain 25 lb’s to fight in the Pride Middleweight division. That weight gain hobbled his speed and, reflexes. In addition, he fought a brawling style completly out of his skill level and, paid for it.
Had he insisted on fighting guys in his weight class and, use limited brawling and, lot’s of grappling, he’d have been much better.
I don’t think the Sakuraba vs Lesnar argument is all that valid now. Let’s see what time of longevity Brock has.
People are really grasping for straws on this one. Any way you look at it Lesnar dwarfs Sakuraba in notoriety and as a draw. Most of the buyrate info so far says that UFC 100 will end up at around 1.5 million buys, which is one of the top 5 biggest PPV’s ever. This show also had more than 5000 bars buy a PPV license to have the right to show it which is a record for any PPV. The amount of people who watched this PPV in America is probably 5-10 million people.
It was also broadcast in Mexico, China, UK, Brazil, France, Korea, and about 70 other countries. Sakauraba can never came close to being seen by such a wide variety of people. Does anyone really think Sakuraba could headline a card in a foreign country and actually draw? I’m willing to bet Brock can.
I can’t believe everyone is passing up on the opportunity to say that Brock headlined over Sakuraba @ the K-1 show in LA, which holds the North American attendance record.
The most laughable thing is seeing people on sherdog reacting to Dana White’s comments about Japan saying the UFC can go there and have Brock headline and draw. People assume just cos Brock was in New Japan and held the IWGP Title he was star over there. Brock didnt draw a dime in Japan. New Japan made no money with Brock as there champion.
You might as well be comparing apples to oranges. Saku was on free network TV in Japan, which has fewer channels and attracts a significantly larger percentage of the population than their American counterparts. On the other hand, Lesnar has been PPV only. Obviously Saku is going to have the sheer numbers advantage (just like EXC had over the UFC), but in terms of their inherent fame and drawing power, I give the edge to Lesnar.
I don’t think Saku could pull in nearly as many PPV buys. Sure, a lot of Japanese watch him when he’s on free TV, but do they care enough to pay $50 to watch him? With Lesnar, well, we already know the answer to that question. Also, I think that if the UFC did a live show on CBS next week and put Lesnar as the headline, and you tallied all the numbers it pulled in all the countries it aired in, they’d do better numbers than Saku.
So to summarize, more people may have watched Saku, but Brock is the bigger star, and I’m sure that last Monday more people were talking about Lesnar at the water cooler than Saku has ever had.
Where are all the Sakuraba comparisons for Brock coming from? I’ve read a zillion takes on UFC 100 and I have yet to read one comparison to Sakuraba that didn’t come from Zach Arnold saying people are comparing Brock to Sakuraba. And since the key element to the Brock-hate here is that it’s pro wrestling marks creaming their jeans over Brock, I highly doubt any of them even know who Sakuraba is. They probably don’t know who Okami is.
Examples, please.
I think Saku was one of the best p4p fighters in mma history; I think if he had stayed at 170 or 185 he would have gone down in history as a legend for beating everyone instead of a legend for beating the Gracies and getting slaughtered by much larger opponents, as well as known for working a fight with Vitor, receiving a despicable gift decision against Mezger, and benefiting from Pride forcing Rampage to cut 20 pounds the night before the fight or forfeit his purse.
Everyone I know who is a sports fan knows who Brock is; not just fight fans. He was on yahoo’s front page, espn’s front page, cnnsi’s front page, number 1 on twitter, number 1 on google searches…come on, let’s be serious. Saku was probably more popular in Japan at his peak than Brock was (Brock hasn’t peaked in mma yet though), but in total number of people, Brock is clearly more popular. As far as most of the world is concerned, UFC = MMA
And plus in context of the entire article, Dave Meltzer is clearly saying UFC 100/Brock are the biggest MMA moments in AMERICA, not worldwide. Hence why at the top of the quote it says “It was the most eventful week in the history of North American MMA”
Obviously he knows about the size of the K-1/PRIDE supershow and all of the huge Saitama Super Arena shows UFC hasn’t come close to drawing an equal amount to, or the monster Yoshida/Ogawa rating. But in America, Brock’s officially bigger than Tito, Chuck, Ken, Hughes or Randy.
Why are Meltzer and Alvarez so excited over UFC 100’s buyrate? With the way they’re reacting you would think this is the highlight of their lives or something.
Seriously, I don’t see why anyone would really experience happiness over these things unless they’re involved with the company. So buyrate numbers influence whether you enjoy something or not?
So do Meltzer and Alvarez have a business relationship with UFC? Could this be them thinking the number somehow validates what they think makes for a good combat sports product(real or fake)? Are they marking out cause they think they finally found the answer as to what they think will take down Vince?
They’re coming off more and more like the Bob Ryder of UFC.
I would bet my house, car, riding lawnmower and microwave oven that Bryan Alvarez, Dave Meltzer, or any other person associated with F4W/WO (Vinny V, Dr. Keith, Granny, Missy Hyatt, Joe Babinsack, or Dave’s legally blind and illiterate proof reader) do not in any way work for Dana White and Zuffa. Dana probably can’t stand either of them (especially SUPER CHICO~!) let alone pay them. Zuffa isn’t paying anybody in the media period.
Why would he need them? Alvarez freelance writes articles nobody reads and Meltzer is with Yahoo where he isn’t even the first runner up to Dana White asskissing at that organization. It’s a total stupid conspiracy theory to believe they’d give a shit about paying anybody to say nice things about them. Maybe Bob Meyrowitz gave Meltzer some kickbacks in the 90s when WO was sadly one of the biggest thing giving UFC coverage, but I can say with all certainty Dave Meltzer, Bryan Alvarez and associates do not get paid or even asked to say nice things about Zuffa.
So why do they gloat? They’re fans. Not big enough fans where they go 45Huddle and explain away all of the misdeeds, they did call Zuffa out on the Fitch situation, EA Sports situation, ignoring Ken, Tito and Royce at UFC 100, ect. If they were paid shadow-publicists, they wouldn’t. Maybe there’s a little bit of glee in UFC embarrassing Vince McMahon’s embarrassing programming, but nothing sinister. They’re just happy for the sport.
I completely agree with Mark that it is unfathomable that Zuffa pays Dave and Bryan money in return for favorable coverage in the Observer.
That said, you’re burying your head in the sand if you think Dana White can’t stand them. Dave is pretty open about the fact that he regularly talks to Dana and even gives him business advice. We all know if Dana couldn’t stand him, he wouldn’t be speaking to him and would be cutting promos on him on the Internet.
The statement “Zuffa isn’t paying anybody in the media period” is also misleading, as Zuffa has a well known business relationship with Yahoo.
It’s also completely unfathomable that Dave Meltzer accepted kickbacks from Bob Meyrowitz in return for coverage in the Observer, for the same reason why he wouldn’t accept kickbacks from Zuffa. His journalistic integrity. It’s nice to see you throw Dave under the bus in your defense of Zuffa.
The explanation for the gloating that they’re simply fans is ultra simplistic. Dana is a very important news source for Dave and their relationship seems much closer to friendship than an impersonal business relationship. No-one is above criticism in the Observer, but his friends and key sources (Jim Cornette, Jim Ross, Mike Tenay, Bret Hart, Brock Lesnar, Dana White, etc) seem to be less likely to be criticized and when they are the criticism seems more tepid. Maybe that’s unfair but that is the perception his coverage gives, at least to me, having read the Observer for several years.
Talks regularly, sure. Dana probably talks to all the bigger names in MMA media every so often. Gives business advice? I find that hard to believe, if he does it’s unsolicited. What the hell does a wrestling journalist know about running a company? I guess Dave has done well for himself living off of WO since the 80s, but he doesn’t have a business degree, only has second-hand observations of what running a fight promotion is like, and more importantly Dana’s ego is far too large at this point to take anyone seriously but his bosses Frank and Lorenzo. I’m sure Dave tosses off factoids about what UWF-i or RINGS did, but that’s not being a business adviser. Dave probably does that in line at the supermarket. He can’t help tossing out facts.
I said he “maybe”, not for sure got kickbacks, since it was rumored back in the day both he and Eddie Goldman were under-the-table paid “official reporters” for the SEG events. Mentioning oft-repeated rumors isn’t throwing somebody under a bus. Meltzer, Alvarez and Dr. Keith are my three favorite people on the internet, I wouldn’t slander them after all of the entertainment they’ve provided me over the years. And trust me, I’m not defending Zuffa for the sake of defending Zuffa. I’m no Dana fan, far from it. But I will defend him when I think he’s in the right, which is very rarely these days. But this is one of the times.
I still say you’ve got your head in the sand. Dave immediately after the controversial finish to Tito vs. Ken II was championing a rematch on free TV. Joe Silva and Dana were convinced and booked the rematch. The result from Dave Meltzer’s own words: “What very slowly got the mainstream media into MMA, and as Dana White likes to remind me, took me from one place in life to another, is the media couldn’t deny the ratings of the Ortiz-Shamrock match in 2006 on Spike when in 18-34 males it beat several games of that year’s World Series.” Their relationship sounds a lot more like Dave is a confidant of Dana’s than Dana being some egomaniac who refuses to take Dave’s words seriously.
You might have a point if Tito-Ken wasn’t scheduled for free TV on Spike during the Ultimate Fighter I finale, when Franklin ended up taking Tito’s spot because Tito turned it down. So it wasn’t so much of a stretch to do it then. It wasn’t a fight that was going to get people to pay $40 again to see, but they were big enough draws to guarantee a big free-tv rating. I can’t see Dana going “Holy shit, I never thought of that! Thank you, wrestling newsletter guy!”
People always crap on other sites like the Torch and pwinsider with claims of bias towards certain groups or individuals. Yet, it is much more evident than it is with anybody else that Dave is like this with certain people and organizations. Follow his work and it’s very easy to figure it all out.
The thing about giving business advice to Dana is spot on. How do you think UFC got the idea to target certain international markets?
Dave has turned into what people always claimed he never was and would never be. That being another Bob Ryder type.
“How do you think UFC got the idea to target certain international markets?”
Um, because there’s fight fans there. And they have money. So if you go in a plane there and fight, they will give you said money to see said fight. And since Zuffa likes money, they thought this sounded like a good idea. And, you know, there was that whole “Ultimate Japan” and “Ultimate Brazil” thing I guess Dave came up with, too.
Yep, Dave Meltzer was the first man in world history to come up with the idea of touring internationally. Yes sir.
“Dave has turned into what people always claimed he never was and would never be. That being another Bob Ryder type.”
He handles travel arrangements and doesn’t pay Joey Styles’ webhost costs?