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UFC 100 (7/11 Las Vegas)
By Zach Arnold | July 11, 2009
Reports: Sherdog | Observer | Jake Rossen | MMA Torch | MMA Weekly | MMA Junkie | Bloody Elbow
Post UFC 100 editorial note
I have to go through about 20-25 audio and video clips to analyze and transcribe comments and remarks. Hang with me and I promise I will get some new articles and material here and at MMA Memories in the next couple of days. It’s not hard work but it’s work that takes some time to get done in a meticulous fashion.
One favor needed — I wanted to play the audio from Off The Record in Canada with Dana White. However, when I went to the web site of the show and tried to play the clip, it gave me a message that it couldn’t play ‘in my region.’ I’m just looking to download or play the audio so I can transcribe anything news-worthy said in the interview. If you can help out on this front, please contact me personally. Thanks.
Personal thoughts on the show – thought it wasn’t a bad show overall. Although I will say that right after the PPV telecast ended, I did receive a few messages from people (casual, hardcore, across the spectrum) who thought the show sucked. I disagree with that notion, but then again I’ve spent the last couple of weeks writing articles on most of the fights on the card so I’ve had tunnelvision, admittedly.
As for the commentary on Brock Lesnar and his antics in the cage, look… this is a guy who used dogfighting references on the UFC 100 Countdown show on Spike TV and no one blinked an eye. (If you recall, he was talking about being taken off a leash when describing how he would go after Mir.) You know what you’re going to get with Lesnar. He’s the company’s ace right now, with St. Pierre as the second biggest ace. Everything has fallen right into place for Zuffa.
UFC’s RSS feed is broken
Which is why headlines from their web site aren’t showing on the left sidebar.
Topics: Media, MMA, UFC, Zach Arnold | 140 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
But Brock’s takedowns are something special. That guy looks like a speeding Mack Truck shooting in sometimes. he may stuff some of them, but he won’t stuff all of them. I agree that Carwin is his toughest challenge. But I still say he out-wrestles him and dumps on the ground n pound for the win. But you’re right, Carwin has shown better striking. Then again, he doesn’t have to remind himself not to pull the punch like Brock does….
Either way, Lesnar will be tested over the next year or so. The winners of Couture/Nogueira, Velasquez/Carwin, & Cro Cop/Dos Santos could all fight for the title and will likely be the title challengers for the next year. After that, is even the next wave which could include Hague, Russow, Duffee, & Chris T. Not to mention likely a few prospects coming off TUF 10.
I also think if Barnett beats Fedor, we will see Lesnar/Barnett in the UFC by the end of the year.
I had Akiyama winning 30-27 but could understand Akiyama at 29-28. I really don’t understand the uproar over the 30-27. Akiyama won rounds 1+2, with round 3 being 10-10 close. Since we don’t see 10-10 rounds, I thought Akiyama just edged Belcher out in the 3rd.
I think re-watching it with sound off will help people understand what really happened.
Brock’s attitude is similar to Tito Ortiz and Nick Diaz. So what’s the problem. Oh wait, Brock is Germanic. Germanic fighters are all supposed to be submissive. Brock should not change his attitude. He should keep on beating opponents and taking those checks.
A very entertaining card. Lesnar makes a great heel. And he really sells tickets and PPV’s. Ultimately, this is all that counts.
It was a pleasure to finally see Akiyama win in the Octagon. Despite the close decision, he did manage more points standing up, along with more take downs. Rogan & Goldberg skewed the entire by mainly focusing on Belcher’s effective kicks
I’ve seen in Boxing way too many times that commentators can skew a viewer’s perception of a fight. This was obviously apparent with Holyfield-Lewis II as Lewis was dominating entire the fight. Unfortunately, the commentators (who were paid by Don King – Holyfield’s promoter) conned themselves into thinking Holyfield was winning the point war. Good thing the judges thought otherwise. Unfortunately, I can’t say the same thing about Holyfield-Lewis I.
MMA, Boxing or any other fight sport will never reach a mainstream status equaling the big three sporting organizations (MLB, NFL & NHL). They won’t even get close to NASCAR.
MMA is a blood sport catering mainly to an older demographic. Plenty of socially conscious parents out there would rather bring their kid to a New York Yankees game than see a Brit get bashed to the head while he’s already comatose on the ground. Like it or not, don’t expect the UFC to get that multi-billion dollar network TV deal anytime soon; the standard bearer of mainstream acceptance.
“Alan and Ivan have probably been waiting up all night for weeks waiting to post on the Internet smarky comments about Brock Lesnar as soon as the show was over.”
This sentence is worse than Belcher’s tattoo.
No matter how you score Akiyama vs. Belcher…. It’s obvious that Akiyama is not at the highest level. He would get beaten by basically all of the top level UFC Middleweights.
No matter how you score Akiyama vs. Belcher…. It’s obvious that Akiyama is not at the highest level. He would get beaten by basically all of the top level UFC Middleweights.
From my perspective (a dude who thinks Akiyama lost), there is no doubt about that. He’s going to fall into the category of “Japanese Guys who Fought in the UFC and lost” really quickly if they up the quality of opposition to folks like Marqhardt or Okami. Looking at the rankings, I would only feel comfortable (among the “name” fighters) having him face Quarry or Sonnen. Both of those guys are pretty lousy on the mat and are likely to end up there, either from awful gameplans or because Akiyama could just pull guard. Dude cannot beat Almedia. Cannot beat Maia. Cannot beat Leites. Probably can’t beat Palhares. Probably in a dangerous fight against gatekeepers like Grove or Cote.
I had Akiyama winning rounds 1 and 3. Belcher had good leg kicks but I feel leg kicks and jabs are a means to an end and not a sign of true effctiveness by themselves. Meaning the leg kick isant to slow the opponent so to can KO or take him down. I though Akiyama did more damage and was more effective overall in1&3. I don’t see how he won round 2 though. I bought that was clearly for Belcher.
I really liked the show. The opener was exciting, Hendo-Bisping had an amazing finish, GSP v. Alves was exciting, and Brock prison-raped Mir. I have no idea what anyone is complaining about. It was a very good show, and I really liked the new overhead camera view the UFC used in the walkouts and occasionally in the fights.
Brock’s promo was amazing; for all the talk about how classless it was, I say who cares? He is a fighter not a tennis player or golfer. Mike Tyson used to talk about eating his opponents’ children and that only added to his drawing power. Lesnar winning is the best thing that could have happened for Zuffa. He is a HW champ who is incredibly scary and borderline crazy, just like Tyson, and like Tyson he has that aura of invincibility/violence. Everyone is going to be talking about the fight and his comments after, and all those people will pay to watch his fights.
The bar in nyc where I watched the fights was entirely packed (as it is for every UFC show, even Franklin-Wand coming from Europe mid-afternoon), and most people were booing Lesnar before the fight started, booing after he won and got in Mir’s face, and then laughing hysterically after his interview. They are all going to watch his next fight.
btw I had Akiyama 29-28, but first round could have gone either way. 30-27 for either fighter is retarded.
The comparisons with Tyson are crazy, you guys. Yeah, he talks a ton of crap. That’s basically where it ends. Tyson went through and demolished the entire division in a long tournament, completely uniting the lineage of the world heavyweight title (not just the Don King Invitational Heavyweight Championship) and then dominated the division for years at a time when the sport was still viewed strongly in the media, well entrenched roots culturally in this country, and had huge viewership. Lesnar is in the position of attempting to legitimize the sport to people on the outside, and I can’t see that happening. While Tyson’s explosiveness and significant results allowed him to assert the crown once held by Muhammad Ali, there is no cultural figure like Ali to bestow upon him that honor.
As financially successful as he’s gonna be and as financially successful as the UFC will be with him as champ, the general populace isn’t going to look to him in the way it does Tiger Woods, LeBron James, or Peyton Manning in this country. Hell, I seriously doubt he’s ever going to engender the support that a Dale Earnhardt ultimately recieved. He’s gonna be looked at in the same way that Stone Cold Steve Austin was for wrestling 15 years ago; A great figure among the kind of people who go to monster truck rallies and enjoy the comedic stylings of Gallagher.
Wow, wow.
There are people here who honestly believe that the marketing wing of Zuffa ever had any intention of doing anything other than getting the most possible people to tune into and purchase their events?
This is the freaking UFC people. If anything you’d think the old school fans would be thrilled because Lesnar is the second coming of Royce Gracie’s boring win at any cost fight attitude and Tito’s WAR TITO antics.
Add in a big healthy slice of Pride self-promotion and “he’s a crazy fucking American! OMGWTFBBQ! He could snap you in half!” and this is a winner.
There’s a lot of great things about MMA, guys who take it seriously, treat it like a sport, there’s been a continuous development in fight styles and techniques. This is just another phase in that.
But the marketing has been bloodsport from day one, except when it comes to doing just enough in the mainstream media to convince localities that they should let you have a show in their backyard.
That’s the tightrope: bloody and vicious enough to get the event crowd, safe and sporty enough to get the soccer moms and politicians.
I get entirely that its a bloodsport, Jeremy. Its just amazing to watch people who’ve spent countless hours arguing that this isn’t some sort of insane spectacle draped in brutality that Dan Henderson trying to cave in Michael Bisping’s skull was actually good for the sport or that Lesnar’s actions bode well for the long term future of MMA as a respectable athletic contest. This gets a pass and Kimbo/Thompson does not, in essence, just because people liked it more.
I have no shame. I will gladly watch any MMA or boxing at this stage, and frankly, if the opportunity arose, I’d probably watch monster trucks and pound Millers while I do that too. But hell if I’d go to a cocktail party with people at work and talk about how awesome it was when Grave Digger drove through a school bus anymore than I would the Michael Bisping’s involuntary introduction to a catatonic state.
Last night was not a good one for social acceptance of our favorite sport.
I say this as a fan who really enjoyed the show, myself. I’m not too bothered by the antics because I understand their marketing context and I am less shocked by the violence than someone who is not really a fan and may even harbor prejudices against the sport.
I often invite non-fans to watch shows with me in the hopes they will gain some appreciation of the sport. This makes me overly sensitive to how the sport is perceived by first-timers, non-fans, and prejudiced people.
For the non-fans, two things will stand out above else last night. And it’s not GSP’s brilliant strategy and execution in shutting down Thiago Alves. And it’s not Henderson’s capitalization on Bisping’s glaring errors in boxing, footwork and strategy. Fans will only remember, first: Henderson’s post-knockout flying punch on Bisping’s prone, convulsing body (and Rogan’s comment “That one stiffened his toes”) and his casual confession after the fight (met with a roar from the crowd.) And they will remember, second: Lesnar’s gloating, crudeness, and lack of sportsmanship.
And it gives me no pleasure to say this.
I think the key is that it isn’t JUST “some sort of insane spectacle draped in brutality.” Because it clearly is an insane spectacle draped in brutality, just as it was in the 90s.
If we escaped that, then the sport would enter into that same impotent artistry world with Ky?d? and Kendo, descended from violence, but not representative of any of the visceral attraction that makes it a commercially viable spectator event.
This feeds back into the Machida discussion nicely, the return of Karate from that arts and points world to something integrated into a style designed to inflict pain, to force the opponent to quit or to render them incapable of continuing.
That’s UFC’s zone, not Zen MMA. Just barely safe enough to be legal, and violent enough to be edgy and counterculture. It’s the Jolt Cola of fighting sports to Boxing’s Coke and Karate’s Prune Juice.
Because it clearly is an insane spectacle draped in brutality, just as it was in the 90s.
If we escaped that, then the sport would enter into that same impotent artistry world with Ky?d? and Kendo, descended from violence, but not representative of any of the visceral attraction that makes it a commercially viable spectator event.
I think there’s ways to promote a combat sport without delving into the lowest reaches of humanity. I don’t think that’s the UFC’s goal anymore, though. I see them and I remember now that Limp Bizkit was supposed to play the Fan Expo, and suddenly it makes even more sense than before. People talk about the attraction of Mike Tyson in this thread, but Mike was an attraction long before he became a freak show. What happened after the rape conviction with the ear biting, arm bars, late punches, crazed interviews, and so on kept him in the public eye after his talent eroded, but it did not make him a big star. He was already an immense and respected star when he defeated Michael Spinks. He devolved and took the sport with it in many ways, not the other way around.
I hit “submit” before I was really done, so feel free to merge this:
What I’m getting at is that Boxing was once one of the three biggest sports in the country. Its still respected in great way because of its history and all that. It had image problems early in its history and worked very hard to overcome them and present itself in a more respectable fashion. I didn’t get that with UFC 100. I got that the sport of MMA is well on its way to killing professional wrestling and replacing it on the cultural scene, and while its completely predictable (I remember saying that on DVDVR long before TUF), it doesn’t make me any prouder to be a fan of it.
Lesnar seems like a really good striker…but he’s only faced Couture, Mir, and Herring. Two wrestlers and a BJJ guy – none of whom I’d classify as top shelf in the striking department.
I THINK the key to solving Lesnar at this point is a really hard, accurate striker that can avoid getting taken down (or be more dangerous than Mir on the mat if he does).
Fedor is this guy. No doubt.
The fight on top has to tell some kind of story. It doesn’t always have to be a semi-pro wrestling gimmick, but the UFC would go nowhere if it was purely the athletic contest these purists who know nothing want it to be. As long as they’re charging on PPV to see it, it’s a business as much as it is a sport.
What’s wrong with Brock shit talking anyway? Ali remade boxing in his own image by doing that, starting personal feuds out of nowhere to sell tickets. And he also taunted KOed opponents like Brock did too (well, maybe not getting in their face.) But he’s the paragon of what an athlete is, even Eddie Goldman says so! If you’re really this obsessed about UFC “becoming the 4th biggest sport in America”, then why are you getting mad at the guys helping that pipedream?
PS, Fuck Dana for making Brock apologize at the post-fight press conference. Boo hoo he hurt a sponsors feelings, go charge them 100 grand to make them feel special.
What’s wrong with Brock shit talking anyway? Ali remade boxing in his own image by doing that, starting personal feuds out of nowhere to sell tickets.
Ali didn’t become the most adored sportsman on earth just because he had eloquent and witty putdowns. Good lord, what a horrible interpretation of history.
If you’re really this obsessed about UFC “becoming the 4th biggest sport in America”, then why are you getting mad at the guys helping that pipedream?
A) I’m not one of those guys. If you want to read that sort of piece, there’s plenty out there about how the UFC is a bigger success than the NFL internationally or how the UFC might actually be able to eclipse soccer on god knows how many blogs.
B) He did nothing to help that. He basically established that the UFC has a long and successful future ahead of itself co-opting professional wrestling fans. Lots of them are flipping out as we speak. I’m sure Dave Meltzer practically had an erection thinking about all the awesome southern wrestling comparisons he could make. But you know what? Wrestling at its most popular was still considered crap for morons/rednecks. That’s what MMA is shooting for right now.
Great article by “Total MMA” author Jonathan Snowden:
UFC 100: Bad for the Sport
http://mmapayout.com/2009/07/ufc-100-bad-for-the-sport/
Jesus, I don’t like Dana White, but ripping him for making Brock apologize to a giant corporate sponsor is not a bad thing. This is the real world, not Vince McMahon’s fucking sideshow.
UFC has to understand that the freakshow stuff will get monster buys for a while and then fizzle out into nothing. It is dangerous turf they are heading into. Short term Brock and his shitty attitude, poor sportsmanship and all around oafish behavior will draw a lot of attention, but a lot of it won’t sustain after the sideshow is over. This isn’t how you build your sport into prominence. I really wish more people saw this. This will line the Fertitas pockets, no doubt, but helps nobody else.
There’s a great discussion on the latest Inside MMA with Josh Barnett, Ken Shamrock and Dave Meltzer intelligently weighing in on the subject of a fighter’s union. It’s really worth checking out, at minute 32.
http://www.mma-core.com/videos/_Inside_MMA_Fedor_Emelianenko_Josh_Barnett_Ken_S?vid=10005559&tid=107
To the folks that think that Hendo’s second punch or Lesnar’s tirade “helped”, lemme ask you guys something: If someone gets hurt badly at UFC 101 or UFC 102, hell, UFC 110, what do you honestly think will happen to the sport as a whole? I’m serious. Imagine if Bisping didn’t wake up from that second shot. It shouldn’t be that hard to imagine, because people can and have died from taking blows like that while unconscious. Where do you think we’d be within a matter of a couple months?
Guys does anybody know the song that Paulo Thiago came out to?
Shooting for? That’s what it already is.
The difference being that these same morons/rednecks have somehow convinced themselves that it is — or miraculously will be in the near future — high-brow entertainment.
Alan, I agree with you, but I’m surprised at the sudden outrage. The UFC, with the exception of some of the recent Countdown shows, is about as lowbrow and redneck as any sport can possibly be. It amazingly still has not outgrown the shameless gladiator/nu-metal intro.
And it’s embarrassing to be a fan when people are NOT upset at Henderson’s post-KO shot and especially his admissions afterwards. Punches after a clear KO should be grounds for fines and/or suspension, especially in obvious cases like Rampage/Silva 3. What Rampage did was infinitely worse than Babalu holding a blood choke a little long.
http://mmajunkie.com/news/15490/ufc-president-dana-white-says-ea-sports-responsible-for-current-mma-video-game-war.mma
Dana White discussed the issues with EA Sports. Love or hate their strategy, but Dana White is very big about having people who are on their side when they do business with them.
They are like this with the arena’s they choose in Vegas. They are like this with their sponsors. With SpikeTV & Versus. With their video game makers. And even with their fighters.
In the long run, it will help the UFC. If you get into a deal with a company that doesn’t see it as a two way street, when things get a little rough (which happens in all business), they will be the first to go.
As for Lesnar & Henderson…. Most people who don’t whine all day on the internet don’t really care about their antics. It’s fighting. It’s two guys beating each other up. That’s what the UFC is selling. Having 1 or 2 guys go over the top will just get people talking about it.
People need to forget about MMA being as big as MLB, NFL, & NBA. It just isn’t going to happen. However, it can have a solid level of success like it is now. And that is good enough for me. Especially in this culture, fighting is not for everybody.
“What’s wrong with Brock shit talking anyway? Ali remade boxing in his own image by doing that, starting personal feuds out of nowhere to sell tickets.”
Comparing Ali to Lesnar is a joke. Lesnar doesn’t even deserve to be in the same sentence with Ali.
From a cultural point of view, Ali’s charisma, actions, eloquent put downs or trash talking is immortalized due to the status America was in at the time (Civil Rights Movement, Vietnam War, etc). Plus, Ali is truly a great fighter who fought great wars with top boxers during this special era. Unlike Lesnar, Ali didn’t fight for the title with only 2 fight into his career.
The perception of Lesnar is commonly viewed as a vilified punk or asshole. A WWE, IWGP, NFL washout who burnt his bridges, only to finally find a place in MMA. Nevertheless, I still think Lesnar is a physical beast who will probably keep the title for quite a long time.
But he’ll never be a cultural hero or half the man Ali has become. Not even close.
Keep in mind that Ali also had the help of ABC & Howard Cosell to build him up in the public’s eye. Most casual fans today would call him the best boxer ever. And yet, he wasn’t even the best Heavyweight ever.
What he had on his side was a TV station that featured his fights. An announcer (Cosell) that he was good friends with who helped hype him up and basically help set up his great interviews. And then lastly, there is Ali himself who has a specific type of personality.
I’m not saying Lesnar is Ali. He isn’t. But both did “WWE” like antics to get people to watch them. I think if Ali did that stuff today, people would be laughing at him. It’s a different society. People aren’t as gullable anymore to buy into manufactured hype.
The UFC is going to have its biggest year in company history, and Alan is spending the entire time yelling “The Sky is falling!”
Numerous UFC controversies have sprung up on this website for years, and nothing has ever come of it. If nobody cared about Rampage’s rampage, nobody is going to care that Lesnar was a meanie head during his post-fight antics. Zuffa has it really, really good right now, no matter how much you wish otherwise.
Here’s how it’s going to go down. Lesnar is going to get a freebie for his comments. He’s already apologized and played the “bad habits left over from the WWE” card. As long as there isn’t a repeat then there won’t be any long term harm and judging by the post fight conference, Dana’s straightened that out already. It’ll be water under the bridge after Lesnar’s next fight. In the meantime Lesnar gets all the publicity that comes with being a huge heel, and he’s easily the UFC’s biggest star right now and probably for years to come. Expect very high buyrates for all future Lesnar fights, and the UFC to continue its growth and expansion without missing a beat.
Also, remember the whole corporate sponsors controversy? I remember some people bringing up One More Round, and saying that Stitch had a part in that company and they would be alienating him.
Well now, what do you know? I’m really asking, that isn’t an empty transitional phrase. What do you know? Because I’m watching UFC 100 and without missing a beat Stitch is on the sidelines wearing a custom Tapout shirt with his name on it, as were the other cutmen. It’s always the worst case scenario on this website, you never consider that Zuffa might make amends behind the scenes and reciprocate loyalty. They take care of their own, that’s how they operate.
Shooting for? That’s what it already is. The difference being that these same morons/rednecks have somehow convinced themselves that it is — or miraculously will be in the near future — high-brow entertainment.
You’re right. Seriously. One hundred percent on the money. I swear, I’ve even said these things long ago. I don’t know why I ever could have expected differently either consciously or unconsciously. I’m saddened at this point that I even had that as a possibility. Seriously.
The UFC is going to have its biggest year in company history, and Alan is spending the entire time yelling “The Sky is falling!”
LOL, oh lord. Dude, you’re obviously not even actually reading my posts at this point. You want to go show some posts where I describe how the UFC is crumbling? Please. Their financial success is guaranteed and I as much say it. You know who else has been hella successful financially? Larry The Cable Guy. Monster truck rallies are primarily run by a massive conglomerate and fill stadiums with a national TV deal. Wrestlemania is a huge financial success every year. If you want the UFC to have the reach, quality of fanbase, and cultural respect of the WWE, awesome. I’m not so excited at the prospect.
I didn’t mean Brock was on Ali’s level, of course he isn’t. Just comparing the fact that a lot of people said Ali was a brash asshole who was bad for the sport in his day too. Read press on Ali as it happened in the 1960s and not just the documentaries made on him in later years: he was just as hated as he was loved.
And Lesnar is one fighter out of dozens, one champion out of five holding probably the least respected belt. He’s not going to turn people off to the sport, he’s going to turn people off to Brock Lesnar. People hated Tito’s attitude as well, but they didn’t stop watching UFC because of it.
Before Brock even fought his first fight, UFC fans let it be known that he was going to be hated by them. So what would you rather have, Lesnar doing what he’s doing or blowing an opportunity to make money like Tim Sylvia did by getting teary eyed when people booed him instead of running with it?
And think back to 2 of the 3 things that put UFC where it is today: 1) Ken Shamrock & Tito Ortiz dragging out a pro wrestling feud over 3 record breaking shows (UFC 40, UFC 61 and the Spike special in October 2006) and the drama of Chris Leben/Josh Koscheck/Bobby Southworth on The Ultimate Fighter. (the third being obviously the Griffin/Bonnar fight.) Those two events did more for MMA than years of going the sportsmanship route. Because you can do both. You should do both. There’s room for Kimbo silliness and Machida’s no-frills technical mastery under the same banner.
The comparisons to Tyson and Ali are off base if for no other clearly obvious reason than that the sport they participated in had a much larger impact socially during that time period than it does now, or in comparison to the impact MMA has ever had in North America. What I take issue with is the idea that Lesnar will “grow the sport” in the sense that Ali and Tyson did through his antics. But in neither case was it wild animalistic antics that somehow brought credibility to them and their sport. In Tyson’s case, his controversial acts probably killed what remaining good will boxing had with mass media forever and did irreparable damage to the sport. It wasn’t even why he became famous in the first place!
You’d have a point if the UFC as a whole turned into a bunch of Brock Lesnar’s. But his antics are isolated, so I don’t understand why you’re so worried about one guy turning UFC into a white trash favorite. I tend to agree with you on a lot of things, but I really think you’re making much ado about nothing.
And BTW, Tyson was into his cartoony psycho role even before he went into prison. He started it in 1991, after the media clearly wanted him to go that route after allegations he beat his wife and other controversies.
Either way, I agree that Lesnar isn’t selling 2 million PPVs like Tyson did. I don’t even really like the guy, but I think he’s going in a direction that he should. Just because one guy is going that route doesn’t mean we should all turn into a bunch of Eddie Goldman’s decrying UFC ruining MMA by being too angle-heavy.
By 1991, he was already starting to fall apart under the pressure of the rape charges and claims by his ex-wife of battery. Again: Mike didn’t become famous because he beat the crap out of Robin Givens. He became famous (extremely famous!) because he was a hyper dominant champion who was compared to the all time greats. Lesnar isn’t even the top guy in the world yet.
Its not so much that it happened, because hell, its not as if it was impossible to see coming. Its the overwhelmingly positive reaction from the very insular MMA blogosphere and downright ignorant responses around towards even mild criticism.
I should note too that no one came out of last night saying that Jon Fitch or GSP are going to push this sport into the mainstream. Even if most of the guys in the UFC are classy folk, their public face is this:
http://i30.tinypic.com/14m88sn.gif
Wait, boxing was more important in the 1960s than UFC is now? I find that hard to believe. Without Ali, boxing would have been even more of a footnote. For all intents and purposes there’s no Memphis scene without Elvis in the 1950s and there no boxing without Ali in the 1960s.
And no Ali without Wagner for that matter.
Brock Lesnar is good for the sport.
There, I said it.
He will bring in more fans. He is part freak show, but also have a legit amateur background to defuse any naysayers. And he makes Tito Ortiz by comparison seem boring. People want to see him fight. Lesnar/Mir 2 was boring. Yet people will still want to see him again. Why? Because he is one scary guy. And people want to see what happens next.
And as the UFC grows, it will only help out the rest of the guys, including the top guys like GSP, Silva, & Penn…. And even the undercard guys.
You know what’s always awesome? When Dave Meltzer repeats the ol’ chestnut that George Wagner essentially invented fight and sport promotion, usually not long after he posts about the debt of gratitude that guys like George owed to Tex Rickard.
Wow, the pretentiousness is strong in this thread.
Some of you need to pull your head out of the sand. People who are horrified by Hendo delivering an extra punch to Bisping after he was KO’d were never going to be a fan of the sport. MMA is by it’s nature a violent sport, people sensitive to violence aren’t meant to be fans.
Do I really need to remind you people that this is the sport whose fans boo guys for grappling too long, and shout at derogatory comments questioning their sexuality when they do? Or that reward bonuses are given to guys who participate in sloppy (poor technique) kickboxing matches in which guys excitingly tee off on each other?
Like him or hate him, Brock Lesnar knows how to sell fights. And while some of you might prefer Lyoto Mahida’s “sacred honor” stuff be utilized, the sad fact of the matter is that it doesn’t work as well.
Brock Lesnar being a physical freak talking about demolishing guys will generate buzz and interest. Significantly more interest than Machida talking about honor or whatever.
And to the elitist who is aghast at the thought of “low brow” fans becoming a fan of the sport, perhaps you should consider taking up golf. I’m sure that “sport” has the demographic you want to be associated with.
Finally, the notion that any misconduct by fighters places the sport in peril and jeopardizes its status among more traditional sports demonstrates an ignorance of those sports.
In the NHL, fighting among the players is common and one of the draws of the sport. Unsurprisingly, this had led to players getting seriously injured—and even criminal charges being filed.
Amazingly, the lockout had more of a negative impact on the sport than the violence.
A couple of years ago, Kobe Bryant was slapping white people for having the temerity to play defense against him. This year he was elbowing people in the head or throat.
He’s just a fierce competitor though, ask anyone in the media.
And that is to say nothing of Ron Artest going after a fan in the stands, or Kenyon Martin’s entourage going after a fan in the stands.
You’ll have to forgive if me if I don’t help you whiners prepare MMA’s eulogy… because in a sport in which knocking a guy out is a means of winning, a competitor got one extra hit in, or because a guy was obnoxious in his victory celebration.
I look forward to the laundry list of complaints you guys will have after you watch the next UFC event though.
Alert: “Push poll” in the Sunday update!
This endless struggle with the strawmen is bizarre, especially when the general premise is generally agreed upon. I’ll repeat the same basic issues I had before:
-I don’t think Brock Lesnar can bring any sort of long term credibility to the sport. The comparisons to past stars in boxing are generally off-base. This does not mean he cannot make them oodles of money and perhaps even a couple bigger buy rates at some point in the future than there were last night should he continue to be a reign as champion. I see varying arguments against this with a great haziness of where these theoretical fans will come from. I don’t and haven’t questioned that he’ll be a success and that the UFC can be a success with him.
-Oddly, we almost all agree that the sport of MMA is essentially a gladiatorial bloodsport, as was presented unabashedly last night. To that end: How is (as an example) Bob Reilly wrong? Save me that he’s a hypocrite. Its not pertinent to his larger point.
I made the comparison to Tyson and Hogan because thy transcended their spots. People who didn’t regularly follow wrestling and boxng tuned in when those guys perfomed. MMA may never be as big as wrestling or boxing were in the 1980s but already Brock is showing that brings an audience with him.
Alan you are so far out in left field on his ok it’s crazy. You’re usually rational. Ali called Joe Frasier a gorilla and taunted Sonny Liston with “what’s my name mfer” every time he hit him. How about Mir saying he was gong to make Brock famous by breaking one of his limbs. Mir said that in his post fight interview after beating Nog. Why haven’t you been complaining about that for months? I’m surprised you even watched.
Read my post carefully. I’m not “aghast” at the low-brow fans; rather, it comes with the territory (especially with the UFC carefully cultivating the moron/redneck fanbase). I just think it is ridiculous that these same moron/redneck fans don’t realize that the sport is low-brow and get offended when it is pointed out.
Athletes in other sports get suspended for infractions. Even hockey is getting better at cracking down. MMA fighters generally do not, Babalu being the odd exception. I accept the sport for what it is, but it doesn’t mean I need to agree with everything that occurs.
Also, the lack of merited suspensions and the bloodthirsty nature of most fans (like you, apparently) that don’t consider MMA to be a true sport will always mean that MMA will be a fringe sport for a fanbase that consists mostly of morons and rednecks.
Tell me about the NFL. For a sport that relies on defenders trying to basically incapacitate ballcarriers, what’s the difference between a tackle directed at the chest, vs one that is at the head or at the knees? What’s the difference, right?
Alan you are so far out in left field on his ok it’s crazy.
You’re right. I forgot all about that time Ali threatened George Chuvalo’s dad, told the fans to fuck off, and then trashed the sponsors of the event. Or that time he dropped Foreman in Zaire and made sure to him him again when he was down to make sure he wouldn’t get back up before the ref could jump in. Oh, wait.
hit him, rather.
For 90% of NFL fans there is no difference, it’s all “boom! that guy was hit by a mac truck!”
Jeremy, if you make a flagrant helmet to helmet shot in the NFL, you get ejected and fined heavily.