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Tim Sylvia shows up in blogger shape and pays dearly against Ray Mercer
By Zach Arnold | June 15, 2009
Showing up at 310 pounds, Tim Sylvia in TV commercials leading up to Saturday night’s event in Birmingham, Alabama said that he was fighting for the honor of MMA against a former boxing champion. Even Jens Pulver questioned what Tim Sylvia was doing in a match against Ray Mercer… a match originally scheduled to be a boxing contest in a cage. It turned into an “MMA rules” fight.
Ray Mercer knocked out Tim Sylvia in 10 seconds on Saturday night. Bad Left Hook has video of the KO. The video is glorious to watch in that Mercer, who was supposed to be the heel here, was completely 100% cheered by the Birmingham crowd. You can audibly hear a fan on the video before the KO happens say, “…going to knock his ass out.” Then, boom, the KO. Even better is watching Mercer, acting as spry as a pup, celebrate like it was the biggest win of his career. I don’t blame the man one bit for celebrating. What did he have to lose going into this fight? Nothing. Sherdog described Sylvia as someone ‘who went down like a giant California redwood.’ As someone who knows a thing or two about California redwood trees, I would say yes, in fact, Tim did go down like a redwood tree being cut by a bunch of loggers.
Mark La Monica described this whole incident in the best way possible — “9 seconds of shame: Tim Sylvia vs. Ray Mercer.”
We know what kind of damage this will do for Sylvia’s fighting career. What I am more interested in is seeing how much damage Monte Cox has suffered to his reputation for a) the way he’s managed Tim Sylvia in my opinion and b) putting Sylvia in this kind of position against someone like Mercer, who was having to box in Sweden for the last couple of years. My take is that Cox should not go away from this ordeal unscathed. This whole ordeal is a huge stain on him professionally. Everyone will rightfully rip on Tim, but Monte Cox is the one who deserves the biggest spotlight of public shame here.
Update: Keep an eye out for the California State Athletic Commission this week. They may very well tell Sylvia that he can’t fight Paul Buentello in early August for Affliction if they use a 60-day medical suspension for his KO loss to Ray Mercer in Alabama.
Update (6/15): Sylvia has been pulled off the Affliction show.
Topics: Media, MMA, Zach Arnold | 35 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
Agreed, Cox should take the hit here. Sylvia is just doing his job, fighting who is put in front of him. Then again, its also his job to train hard and show up in fighting shape, something by all accounts he has not done this time around.
Cox is his manager though, its his job to seek out the best fights for his client. Comming off a very humbling loss (albeit to Fedor) and with a fight against Buentello penned in for later in the summer, you have to question the decision to put a man who has had his chin exposed by AA, Fedor and Randy in against a former HW boxing champ…
Nise Butterbean
As someone who considers himself a fan of Sylvia (I know… I know… and I’m not even related to him), this is just sad. Where does he possibly go from here?
I can’t help but note the similarities in the quick and devastating fashion that Arlovski and Sylvia lost in their post-Fedor fights. Both guys suffered a bit of a post-Fedor letdown and were not prepared for their next fight.
I have to agree with the opinion that it was a terrible decision to fight Mercer in the first place. Was there big money involved? I can’t imagine there was considering the fight wasn’t even televised.
Just a sad day for Sylvia. I cannot see him re-emerging a legit contender after this.
I actually disagree, Zach. Monte did a hell of a job getting Sylvia his payday for the Fedor fight. I mean, really, the guy made more in guaranteed money that night than he had in his previous 8 fights combined in the UFC or something crazy like that. The problem is that Sylvia took the stance afterwards that he was a big money fighter and demanding premier matchups instead of recognizing his placement in the sport and rebuilding. He could have gone to Japan or fought on independent shows like a lot of guys had. Hell, I bet he could have gotten on M-1 Challenge with little effort and picked up some easy Ws.
Instead, ego got a hold of him and told him that he could be a world class boxer. He looked at the Klitschkos selling out soccer stadiums and thought he should be doing the same. And that’s what put him in this position.
Ultimately though, Cox should have done a better job either talking him out of it or refusing to promote the fight and cut his losses with Timmy. No one is blameless. Hell, Ray Mercer is only here because he didn’t take his boxing career seriously enough when he was in his prime and spent all his money. Maybe if Merciless Ray Mercer had spent more time in the gym and less time audibly trying to throw a fight on camera (Jesse Ferguson), none of this would have happened.
The 265 lbs limit in the Heavyweight Division is looking brilliant right now. Except for an occassional freak like Choi or Sapp, even very very large athletes can make that limit. And it forces them to stay in shape.
I do think Monte Cox has shown his limitations as a MMA Promoter over the years.
Tim Sylvia’s career is basically over. I can’t even see Strikeforce touching him at this point.
\”Tim Sylvia’s career is basically over. I can’t even see Strikeforce touching him at this point.\”
Not even for a CBS card? Most of that audience probably wouldn\’t know about the Mercer loss, they\’d just remember the \’UFC Fighter\’.
Not saying thats by any stretch a good thing, but I think Sylvia still has his place in this sport as a journeyman.
If only he would agree.
It’s not Monte’s fault at all. Unless you think he should have forced Big Tim to train harder.
But on paper it should have been an easy win for Sylvia, so it‘s not like Cox was putting him in over his head. He’s younger, has a much longer reach, has KO power, and a decent chin (we thought.) If the Tim Sylvia of 2006 showed up, he would have beaten Mercer more than likely. But he is either mentally broken from only being able to get a sorry excuse for a win against Vera (in the infamous cage humping fight) but losing to anybody who really mattered. Or he just didn’t take Mercer one bit seriously due to his age. Either way he messed up royally, since everybody was saying this fight shouldn’t happen since Sylvia was going to destroy Mercer for no good reason until they saw his weigh in. But that’s all on Tim Sylvia, not the guy who gets him fights.
I don’t know how he can come back from this, though. I can’t think of any fighter capping off a string of losses with something this embarrassing. Outside of Mark Kerr DDTing himself in his PRIDE comeback fight, but that was embarrassing for another reason.
That was embarassing for Tim. This is a small sample of course and difinitive proof of nothing in the boxing vs MMA debate. But it bolsters my theory that a middle of the road boxer would pummel a top MMA fighter. You teach a boxer to sprawl and defend his neck and limbs and he wins any MMA weight class.
“But it bolsters my theory that a middle of the road boxer would pummel a top MMA fighter. You teach a boxer to sprawl and defend his neck and limbs and he wins any MMA weight class.”
I disagree. It still comes down the the athlete and how well he can transition his game for MMA. It is no different with guys coming over from wrestling. There are guys like Josh Koscheck and then there are guys like Jake Rosholt. Both are NCAA Champions. Koscheck has transitioned nicely. Rosholt could afford a punch or submission to safe his life. Same with BJJ. Lister has failed miserably. Maia has shined. There has never been one combat sport that has come into MMA and had pure domination. I don’t see boxing changing this.
A guy like Calzaghe would get wrecked in MMA no matter how much grappling he was probably taught. Cintron would likely transition over well.
To make a blanket statement middle of the road boxers would pummel top MMA fighters just isn’t true. Now, I do think Heavyweight Boxers would find the most success in MMA, but the lower the weight divisions get, the more of an even playing field it would be. Boxing would be no different then Wrestling, BJJ, Judo, Muay Thai, Kickboxing, and Karate. They all have equal footing in MMA.
“But it bolsters my theory that a middle of the road boxer would pummel a top MMA fighter.”
It shouldn’t. Sylvia is known for being really easy to punch in the chin in the first 30 seconds. He fought a pro boxer with bricks for hands. It happens.
A boxer SHOULD be able to beat an MMA fighter whose whole game is about keeping it at boxing distance. Thats a much different situation than a boxer fighting a clinch fighter, a wrestler, or a jiu jitsu artist, or somebody who is actually good in multiple fields (not Sylvia).
45 Huddle makes a lot of sense on this issue. Boxers will win and boxers will lose, based on a variety of factors. No blanket statements can apply, even the one I just made.
However, I am obliged to point out that Mercer is now the undisputed lineal MMA heavyweight champion of the world for this stunning win, based upon absolutely no reasoning and logic whatsoever.
Mercer is #1!
“But it bolsters my theory that a middle of the road boxer would pummel a top MMA fighter. You teach a boxer to sprawl and defend his neck and limbs and he wins any MMA weight class.”
That certainly makes for a nice topic of conversation, but these guys have it right, imo. Some boxers have great styles to match up well with some MMA fighters, even under MMA rules. However, that’s because of the way a particular MMA fighter fights. That same boxer is ill-equipped to fight on in MMA, though. A few months of sprawl and sub training won’t change it, imo.
Mayweather injures ribs, postpones comeback fight
LAS VEGAS (AP) — Floyd Mayweather Jr.’s boxing comeback has been postponed because the boxer suffered a rib injury while training.
Promoters says Sunday that the July 18 fight against Juan Manuel Marquez in Las Vegas will be rescheduled.
Mayweather (39-0, 25 KOs) says in a statement that he had been training hard and was disappointed. Marquez (50-4-1, 37 KOs) says he will remain focused, in shape and ready to fight a rescheduled bout.
Poor boxing. Manny vs. Hatton which is really the only major fight of the 1st 6 months of 2008, underperforms on US PPV. Klitschko vs. Hayes can’t seem to happen. Now Mayweather gets injured, and I wouldn’t be shocked to see his fight postponed until at least September. And all this during a year in which the UFC is doing record business on PPV (so the recession can’t be used as an excuse).
On a side note, I wouldn’t be shocked if Mayweather just realized he wasn’t ready and wanted to push it off.
The problem with the whole “just teach a boxer to sprawl and learn good defensive JJ” meme is that at that point he would no longer be a boxer but an MMA fighter with a boxing background/base. And we have those. Some do well, some don’t.
Well, here is the thing, a heavyweight boxer with some strength wearing little MMA gloves can be dangerous. Tim most likely did not train for this at all, which is outright embarrassing to everybody involved.
The good that comes of this? Well, we might see yet another Andrei Arlovski vs. Tim Sylvia fight in Strikeforce or Affliction if they decide to do a fourth show for some reason. Two guys who were beaten by the consensus best HW (what does this say for Fedor then?) and were then pretty much made into fools in quick order, messing up future plans and proving they didn’t train for their last fights seriously. Basically, one of them is going to drop off into obscurity and one of them will have another chance at the top with that fight. Somebody book it.
The reason I feel the way I do about this is that a boxer has a finishing weapon. The thing with bringing wrestlers to MMA is that while wrestling is probably the best base to have for MMA it doesn’t provide a method for ending a fight. Therefore the wrestler has to learn striking or jiu jitsu to be a force. The problem for a lot of BJJ guys like Lister and Charuto Vermissio is that their BJJ leaves them susceptible to getting hit and many of the advanced gi and no gi techniques are nullified when the opponent can punch you in the face.
The boxer if he is aggresive will always have the opportunity to land a punch. Even vs a clinch fighter the boxer can land a shot on the way in. Unlike a fighter who relies on kicks, a kick needs to be thrown from the perfect distanc to have full effect, a boxer’s punch from midrange or that is partially blocked still has the power to stun with MMA gloves on.
I think we will start to see boxing managers bringing over mid level prospects soon.
There’s too many new dangers in an MMA fight that negates the best boxer. If someone with killer KO power came into an MMA fight headhunting, they’d have to deal with leg kicks, takedowns, clinches the ref won’t break up to throw them off of their game. And the Octagon is a totally different animal of stand up strategy, even MMA fighters used to rings have severe issues adjusting, let alone a boxer. They would have to put in a whole bunch of work, and I don’t see any boxer wanting to do that if they can get paid (usually more) boxing.
Plus as a career move, boxing is much more wide open to make yourself a star than MMA is, since every major MMA promotion has stacked rosters and boxing has few stars to compete with you. Why would you want to make the switch?
that’s the best headline i’ve seen in a long time
“However, I am obliged to point out that Mercer is now the undisputed lineal MMA heavyweight champion of the world for this stunning win, based upon absolutely no reasoning and logic whatsoever.”
How is that possible, even to the warpedest of minds? Sylvia’s coming off a loss – how could he pass on the “lineal title” following his 2nd straight loss?
So…are we allowed to FINALLY take Tim Sylvia out of the HW top-10 list, and forget he exists?
“How is that possible, even to the warpedest of minds? Sylvia’s coming off a loss – how could he pass on the “lineal title” following his 2nd straight loss?”
Oh, really? I just read a Reuters report that WAMMA is about to confer its North American Heavyweight MMA title upon Mercer and order an immediate match between him and Fedor Emilianenko, provided Fedor gets by Barnett.
*bows in homage to Fluyid*
wow…insane. I guess I forgot to take into account the predictability of utter stupidity.
Man, I apologize. I was just messing around and I made that up. Sorry for coming across like a prick, Gaijin. I was just sitting here at work messing around.
Hahaha…you dick, I actually believed you!
I didn’t think you were coming across like a prick, I thought you were serious (i.e. abut how stupid/opportunist WAMMA could really be) and that should say something about how much faith I have in WAMMA and their credibility.
I’d actually like to see Mercer vs Buentello I Pedro Rizzo. Anyone else?
Different angle & post fight interview with Mercer:
http://www.cbs42.com/mediacenter/[email protected]&navCatId=22
Am I the only one who remembers Mercer ktting kicked once in the head by Remy Bojansky a few years back and quitting? That was three or four years ago, and he got absolutely handled and/or decided he did not want to fight “The Flying Gentleman” 2 seconds after the bell rang. All this fight proved, the one with Syliva, is tha Tim Sylvia has lost his reason or drive to fight…and he wants to sit back, take it easy, and collect some kind of paycheck….I guess. Training is probably not worth it to him now…
“Am I the only one who remembers Mercer ktting kicked once in the head by Remy Bojansky a few years back and quitting?”
Of course not. I remember it well. He took one kick and thereupon immediately quit. He later said that he didn’t get paid enough to take kicks. It was a goofy statement and a weird situation.
He’s probably messed up in the head from getting his brain rattled all of these years. Surely he had to realize that kicks were going to be permitted in that bout.
Similar to Trevor Berbick in UWFI. He took one kick from Takada and wanted out.
Mercer also bodyslammed Musashi in K-1. He’s a guy who is a headcase and I never in shape. But he sure hits hard. Sylvia went down face first. That means he was completely out before he fell.
That fight makes me want to see Mercer of Shannon Briggs start mixing it up with the Rothwells and Buentellos of the world.
[…] Tim’s agent / event promoter Monte Cox paid him to fight Ray Mercer. Lots of people have been giving Cox shit for running Sylvia’s career into the ground, what with allowing him to leave the UFC and […]
“Mercer also bodyslammed Musashi in K-1. He’s a guy who is a headcase and I never in shape. But he sure hits hard. Sylvia went down face first. That means he was completely out before he fell.”
He fell flat on his back.
You’re right. I just watched it again.
Sorry – I cut that rather short and didn’t mean to sound condescending.
He most certainly was completely out and it was quite bizarre to see him almost “levitate” before falling backwards like a tree, as if his feet were nailed to the mat.