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A few random thoughts (news & notes)…

By Zach Arnold | May 28, 2009

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Topics: Media, MMA, StrikeForce, UFC, Zach Arnold | 43 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |

43 Responses to “A few random thoughts (news & notes)…”

  1. 45 Huddle says:

    I was thinking about the same thing with Trigg. This is his last run. He will give it everything he has, and then retire soon afterwards. He doesn’t seem like the Ken Shamrock type that will stick around to get his brains bashed in well into his 40’s.

    What this also does is put Jake Shields in a position were he is basically forced to sign with Zuffa. I think with the signing of Pyle and Trigg. And Thompson fighting at Middleweight, and even saying on the UG that he is open to signing with the UFC later this year. What it does is give Jake Shields basically zero options at Welterweight. He will either need to become a full time Middleweight where they are a lot of fights for him, or sign with the UFC.

    As for Strikeforce attendance numbers, they were saying that their ShoMMA event already had something like 2,400 tickets sold a month before the event. And the final tickets sold were around 2,400 (I might be off on the exact number). I don’t think Strikeforce is going to do well with ticket sales outside of their main market. The only way they can, is if they offer really cheap tickets in college towns and get all the college kids to go to the event (like EliteXC did at least once).

  2. Yahoo MMA …..where bankers are bakers (hi mr alves) and a guy saying dana is coming of HGH turns into him saying Chuck is…

    there is a lot of beef there tween Chuck and Greeneway over MMAJacked from what folks tell me….

  3. Alan Conceicao says:

    Arlovski/Rogers is a decent fight, albeit nothing special. Hey, it would be great if Arlovski was in the UFC and fighting top end competition regularly. Of course, there’s zero guarantee he would be if he was, and that’s why he’s here in Strikeforce after making a swimming pool full of money.

    If Shields wants to head over to Japan, they’ll have a 167lb champ in DREAM soon enough. I think he’s less concerned with whether or not he gets to fight Matt Serra as whether or not he is compensated in a fashion that he prefers. I don’t see how listing a bunch of guys like Thompson and Pyle that Shields has already beaten really matters though. Nick Diaz is right there. KJ Noons would likely be at 170, and he’s all but there. Hieron is around too.

  4. 45 Huddle says:

    The point is that the talent pool of potential opponents for Shields at 170 is constantly getting smaller. And beating Noons at 170 would mean nothing. And Hieron is the king of losing to better fighters. That would leave the winners of the the Bellator or DREAM Tournaments, and neither would be ranked in the Top 15 (nor the Top 20).

    It’s not like Shields is getting paid huge money by Strikeforce at this point in his career. He might have to take a slight pay cut to go into the UFC, but there is much more overall earning potential between FOTN money and also just the upper UFC fighters make more once they have proven themselves inside the UFC.

    Rampage & Evans are the two coaches for the next season of TUF. I could see them giving Machida a fight during this time period, which would make sense. Unless they want Rampage to rush a training camp and fight Machida in the early fall.

  5. Mark says:

    1) I’d watch another Hughes-Trigg. I doubt there would be different results, since Frank has fallen off as much as Matt has. But as long as it keeps Frank Trigg from announcing for a while, it’s a good thing.

    2) Rampage wasn’t entertaining as a coach the last time, so what would be different? And Rashad doesn’t have any television presence.

    3) Even if Rogers got every Sam’s Club card holder at the one he works at to come watch him fight it still wouldn’t be close to 10,000. I’m calling papering on this one.

    4) For the possible lulz, yes I am excited to see Sylvia-Mercer. But it’s probably going to be a turtle-paced boring clinch-fest in reality.

    5) Everybody knows Liddell stored the HGH in his love-handles like a camel stores water in its humps.

    6) Your sister is hot, Zach.

  6. Alan Conceicao says:

    The pool changes and shifts with regularity. Matt Hughes may say he’s going to stay with the UFC forever, but what happens if the money isn’t right, or if Strikeforce offers him way more? Never say never in sports. Then you’ve got a potential megafight for Shields. There’s also Frank Shamrock and maybe Cung Le.

    There’s a lot of guys out there and they can develop a couple of them into contenders with a little time. I think as long as Shields feels he’s getting paid what he wants, he’ll do this instead.

    On the Hughes thing, I doubt anyone cares about Hughes/Trigg 3. Trigg has plenty of good fights that can be made with him though. He’s an excellent benchmark.

  7. Mark says:

    I think people would care. Not that Hughes wouldn’t win this fight as well, but you’re guaranteed an entertaining fight with them.

  8. Chris says:


    1) Hughes v.Trigg. Don’t care.

    2)I don’t think Evans and Jackson coaching TUF can generate and additional heat for an eventual match. Their excahnge in the Octagon after the Jackson-Jardine fight pretty much tells the story and sells that fight.

    3) As the first big MMA show to come to St. Louis, I would not be suprised if they pulled in 10,000 fans.

    4) I’m actually excited for Arlovski v. Rogers. I think Rogers is a legitimate prospect. But I don’t agree with putting him in with Arlovski this soon. If he actually pulls off the upset it would be a nice “underdog” type of story.

  9. Fluyid says:

    I just heard Riggs call Baroni a “faggot.” Somebody call GLAAD.

    (It was during an interview on the trainwreck/podcast known as Carson’s Corner.)

  10. […] to Chris for misrepresenting what he said. Thanks to Robert Joyner for pointing this out at Fight Opinion. Read more about: Chuck Liddell, […]

  11. Michaelthebox says:

    “The pool changes and shifts with regularity.”

    The collection of fighters out there shifts a little bit, but the overall tide is clearly to the UFC. If the pickings are slim for Shields at 170 right now, its unlikely they will ever be better unless a total sea change comes.

  12. 45 Huddle says:

    You really think Hughes will leave the UFC? You are grasping at straws to give Shields potential challengers. Hughes is UFC for life. It’s just in his personality. Guys like that don’t change. It’s not about the money or fame. It’s about staying loyal.

    The Top 20 Welterweights are:

    UFC: GSP, Fitch, Alves, Hughes, Koscheck, Thiago, Kampmann, Condit, Davis, Swick, Serra, Parisyan, Hazelett, Hardy, Kim, Trigg (based on what he has done at Middle), & Yoshida.

    Outside UFC: Shields, Thompson, the last spot is up for grabs. Could be Sakurai or Diaz likely.

    And don’t tell me Hieron is on that list, because there are a few guys in the UFC who aren’t even in the UFC’s top 20 that have beaten him.

    Shields has already beaten Thompson. He proves nothing by fighting Hieron.

    So as I said before, he is either left with fighting Lyman Good (likely Bellator winner) who is not even Top 20…. Or fighting the winner of the DREAM Tournament, who is probably ranked between 15-20. Or he can move to Middleweight full time. And really, he would have a very hard time in that division. He would have a harder time securing takedowns and got pounded on the feet.

    To me, the only real option is the UFC. Unless he wants to lose all credibility and continue to fight non worthy challengers at Welterweight…

    Trigg signing with the UFC took away 1/3rd of his potential actual challengers at 170, that pretty much says it all.

  13. Alan Conceicao says:

    Alright, who are the best two or three guys after Lawler?

    -Nick Diaz. No one will complain about this.

    -Hayato Sakurai. No one will complain about this.

    -Potential other winner of DREAM GP: No one would likely complain about this.

    Then you’ve got Frank, Le, Scott Smith, and whoever else they can borrow at middleweight (Belfort? Lindland?) or from the lightweights (KJ Noons can’t make 155, Aoki could be loaned out, etc). So they have a decent number of potential challengers every bit as good as the guys he’s already beaten that have been signed and that he wouldn’t have fought again anyways. I return to the same thing as before: Money. If the UFC doesn’t want to pay him 50/50, he probably won’t go there. Has no reason to financially, otherwise he’d already be there.

  14. Mark says:

    (one of my comments is held up in moderation for some reason)

    Is Rogers from MO? If he is and he got every Sam’s Club card holder from the one he works at to come, then maybe they could do a legit 10,000. Otherwise it sounds like papering. But maybe.

    For the possible lulz, yes I am excited to see Sylvia-Mercer. But it’s probably going to be a turtle-paced boring clinch-fest in reality.

    Everybody knows Liddell stored the HGH in his love-handles like a camel stores water in its humps.

  15. Ultimo Santa says:

    – Trigg vs. Hughes = boredom. Pretty much ‘instert opponent here’ vs. Hughes = boredom these days, though.

    – Evans and Jackson as TUF coaches = ratings. After the human Ambien known as Dan Henderson I’ll take virtually anyone.

    – Andrei Arlovski vs. Brett Rogers will at least answers some questions about both men. Interesting fight.

    – Mercer vs. Sylvia means nothing. Tim beating an old man in boxing does nothing for his MMA career OR a possible boxing career. Mercer beating a former UFC fighter in his pro boxing debut does nothing to cement his status. But a loss makes both men look bad.

    – Why is taking HGH such a bad thing? Who cares.

  16. brent says:

    i’m from the st.louis area, already have my tickets and would be shocked if they did any LESS than 10,000. i have seen tons of local advertising, Not much national, but the tickets are cheap, ranging from $30 to $100. Mo, and most of the midwest is a hotbed for regional shows, and i have been to quite a few where there people from neighboring states fron all over, (illinois,iowa,kansas and indiana). you see alot of the mfs and hitsquad stars there as well(hughes, militech,jens, lawler). not to mention chicago is only about a 4hr drive from st.louis. so with fighters like diaz and arlovski, i look for this event to be a huge success gatewise. you never know about the ratings. 🙂

  17. 45 Huddle says:

    Rampage & Evans on TUF. The probably fight at the year end show. Winner gets Machida. Machida will likely fight Shogun now. This from Meltzer.

    It makes sense. I think everybody knows that Rampage is going to get KO’d against Machida, or at least made to look foolish. Mine as well get Rampage/Evans while it can still be a hotter main event.

    If there is a guy right now to beat Machida, it might be Shogun. Styles make fights.

  18. Mark says:

    Maybe 2003 Shogun under PRIDE rules. But 2009 Shogun doesn’t stand a chance, he has nothing Machida can’t avoid. I really think people need to wait to proclaim “Old Shogun is back” until he fights somebody not at their career’s end like Liddell.

    Actually, Rampage is probably more dangerous than Shogun would be for Machida. If any style is going to beat Machida it’s going to be a wrestler who can keep him on his back and G&P out a TKO. But so far Tito nor Rashad were able to do that. I doubt Rampage will be the one to do it, either.

  19. robthom says:

    Shoguns got the best chance. I think he has a slight tendency to rise to the occasion.

    IE: He’s better when you push him harder. I wasn’t surprised at all that he was lazy a lackadaisical against coleman, nor was I surprised when he finished chuck.

    Oddly enough Evans has a similar disposition, which is why he starts so slow and gives rounds away. Machida is not the kind of guy that you can wait to get pushed first by, he’s already figured you out and going for the kill by then.

    But Shogun is much more technical than Rashad. Rashad is more instinctual, but when you cant figure out what the hell Lyoto is doing there’s not enough info for instincts to react with.

    Also Shogun plain ole has the best chance in the field and it will be an awesome fight. It might be another blow out, but still awesome for its significance at the very least.

    I like Rashad/jackson on tuf. I might watch that season for the first time in years. I think it wall also be a good exponential rebuilding process for both of them to prepare them for lyoto.
    It seems to me that whenever the coaches come off a season for the end season fight, they usually put on one of their best performances.

    Really smart and strategic matchmaking once again by Joe Silva.

    (Now if he could just squeeze in Brock Lesnar vs. Frankie Edgar we’d all have a merry festivus. 🙂 J/K)

  20. doem says:

    dont know how you could not be intrigued about an AA v Rodgers.

    a more relevant fight than huges V Trigg in my opinion

  21. Jeremy (not that Jeremy) says:

    Rua, really?

    I’m not seeing it…buuuuuuut…guess who’s the next rated UFC LHW (excluding Henderson and Franklin) according to those synthetics that I occasionally bring up? Yeah, it’s Rua.

    Machida hasn’t fought him, you can’t rematch Machida with Evans for fear of destroying the Rampage/Evans fight, and Babalu isn’t fighting in UFC. Rua’s got two consecutive wins (against a scrub and against a guy who is still pretty good, even if he hasn’t had good luck lately, take a look at the guys that Chuck’s been fighting and tell me that he’s had five more difficult consecutive fights at any point in his career)…you could do worse.

    I think Rampage and Evans on TUF makes sense, because they love to make it about title shots, but I don’t know that I would want to put Rampage in that situation again…I don’t watch the show except the finale, so I guess it doesn’t particularly matter, but at least it helps rebuild Evans a bit (I don’t regard him as “damaged” but he did just lose a belt fight).

    HGH lives in one of those weird grey areas in US drug laws. It’s permitted for specific purposes (supplemental therapy for those with low levels of HGH), but not for others. Enforcement is not a high priority. If Chuck was taking it, I think that his doctor would have some ‘splaining to do.

    Remember about a year ago when everyone was talking about UFC pruning their roster?

  22. Chuck says:

    It’s hard to prove someone is doing HGH. You can only do blood tests to find HGH in a person, and blood tests are usually only done on dead people, or people wanting to check their cholesterol levels.

    Oh, and I am pretty stoked for the Rogers/Arlovski fight. The Strikeforce card next week should be a good show. But speaking of that fight card….why are Nick Diaz and Scott Smith all ready fighting again? And against each other? Especially Smith, because he took a decent beating from Radach before Smith pancaked Radach with a hellacious right hand. I’m calling it now, Smith wins via third round TKO. Diaz has shown to blow it against guys with decent striking skills (KJ Noons anyone?).

  23. Grape Knee High says:

    Actually, Rampage is probably more dangerous than Shogun would be for Machida. If any style is going to beat Machida it’s going to be a wrestler who can keep him on his back and G&P out a TKO.

    Kind of ironic how these guys get pidgeonholed, but I believe Shogun has better, quicker takedowns and prefers grappling way more than Rampage these days.

  24. Mr. Roadblock says:

    I think Jackson will have the same problems against Machida he did against the Chure Boxe crew. Machida’s style is made for guys coming right at him. Rampage will eat a bush of body kicks the get KOd.

    Shogun can mix up his looks and attack Machidas lead leg. Muay Thai vs Shotokan under MMA rules. I’m pumped.

    You can’t fight Machida by moving toward his chest toy have to go toward his back like you would a southpaw and make him turn toward you. Shogun has the lateral ability and combos to do that.

  25. IceMuncher says:

    My first thought was that Shogun was undeserving, but as I looked through the list of contenders, he’s the only top LHW besides Rampage that’s not coming off a loss. Forrest, Rashad, W. Silva, Liddell, Jardine, T. Silva, and Franklin all lost their last fights. It’s crazy that there are so many at the same time.

  26. robthom says:

    “I think Jackson will have the same problems against Machida he did against the Chure Boxe crew. ”

    Shad will get first in line.


  27. robthom says:

    The trick may be right out of the movie!

    The movie where marv had to finally get him down.

  28. klown says:

    While I share the consensus viewpoint on Rua being overmatched against Machida, I do also believe that he is the most deserving LHW of a title shot right now.

  29. JStein says:

    Thanks for the love, Zach. As always, I appreciate it, and I know Val does too.

  30. Mark says:

    The talking up Shogun here reminds me of all the people who were completely certain that Arlovski was going to own Fedor. They’re talking about a fighter he stopped being years beforehand. In the case of Arlovski, it was the fighter he was before Sylvia knocked him out. And in the case of Shogun you’re talking about the faster, more aggressive fighter he was before Coleman had him laid up for months. He definitely lost a few steps coming back. And I’ve been saying that even before the Forrest loss, he looked rough in his last PRIDE fights too.

  31. Dave says:

    Arlovski looked good against Fedor, just made a dumb, dumb mistake. He looked bad on his back against Nelson, though.

  32. Mr. Roadblock says:

    I think people make too much out of the this guy is no longer the same fighter stuff. It’s all styles make fights. Sure guys can drop off. But the Arlovski that go KOd by Fedor is the same one that beat Sylvia. Shogun looked back to form against Chuck. He landed combos, moved well and covered up when Chuck threw.

  33. robthom says:

    “Affliction will have two months to market Barnett vs. Fedor.”

    I’ll believe it when I see it!

  34. jr says:

    Bragging Rights in Birmingham is as exciting as going to the dentist

  35. IceMuncher says:

    “But the Arlovski that go KOd by Fedor is the same one that beat Sylvia.”

    That also means he’s the same Arlovski that was KO’d and lost a decision to Sylvia in the two rematches.

  36. \”He definitely lost a few steps coming back. And I’ve been saying that even before the Forrest loss, he looked rough in his last PRIDE fights too.\”

    Does that include the fights where he subbed Randleman and KOed Overeem, each in the first?

  37. skwirrl says:

    The reason Shogun has the best shot of anybody in the UFC. WELL ROUNDED. Dominant GnP, excellent and very slick jiu-jitsu, very unpredictable, Quality Muay Thai and good power and most importantly. The biggest difference between Rashad and him. Shogun can take a punch. Rashad had never got popped by somebody that could punch. We just found out he has a glass jaw. Shogun has an ironclad jaw. Aside from his much improved head movement he showed against Chucky, when Shogun gets caught coming in he can take it and still get the clinch.

    He’s bigger and more powerful than Lyoto and the clinch will be the key to this fight for him. Shogun needs to conserve energy then pounce and explode on Machida when the opportunities present themselves. That will only happen in the clinch so when he gets it he better rain down knees and then drag Lyoto down.

  38. rainrider says:

    Trigg…..Frank Trigg……

    He reconsolidated his legit status by convincingly beating 2 world ranked MWs in the last few years. If both Miller and Misaki are allowed to fight in the main event, Trigg should at least deserve a new contract with the major league.

  39. Mark says:

    @sergio: Okay, I’ll give you Overeem. But Randleman was in the the middle of his insane period and in poor health at The Real Deal, which was 2 years removed from the last relevant win he ever had (Cro Cop). And he had some rough spots against a complete jobber in “The Snake” Diabate and couldn’t finish Kaz Nak at Shockwave.

    Combine that with looking like utter dogshit against Forrest and Coleman and I am not ready to get back on his nuts just yet. I like Shogun, but I have my doubts he’s “back”. And we’re talking about now unarguably the best pound for pound fighter in the world he’ll be going against. I’m not taking that bet.

    rainrider: People don’t even have good reasons for hating Trigg. All the hate I’ve ever seen stems from “he sucks as an announcer.” Of course he does, but lots of fighters suck at announcing, so what? What does that have to do with his fighting skills?

  40. skwirrl says:

    Mark… Complete Jobber in Cyrille? The guy wasn’t much of a mixed martial artist when he had his losses but his standup is world class. How long have you been watching MMA for? Also, Maybe you should double check… But Machida didn’t finish Nakamura either. As to Forrest and Coleman he fought Forrest on a knee with torn ligaments which he damaged over a month prior to the fight giving him time to get out of shape and Coleman he was coming off 2 surgeries in a 10 month period with only about 7 months after that to rehab and train for a fight. He had over a full year of downtime and a couple months to whip himself into shape… hard to look in top cardio shape when you’re wrestling against one of the biggest LHW’s in the world.

    This post sounds like its coming from a complete noob to the sport, which is weird because normally they don’t find this site and end up over at fightlinker or the like.

  41. Grape Knee High says:

    Combine that with looking like utter dogshit against Forrest and Coleman and I am not ready to get back on his nuts just yet. I like Shogun, but I have my doubts he’s “back”. And we’re talking about now unarguably the best pound for pound fighter in the world he’ll be going against. I’m not taking that bet.

    Mark, I’m with you; I’d like to see how Shogun does against someone else before anointing him as “back”. But I don’t think Rampage has a chance against Lyoto either. Also, I don’t think you should give Sergio Overeem 2. His standup looked terrible and it betrayed Overeem’s weaknesses more than Shogun’s skill.

    I’m still surprised you think Rampage is more likely to dethrone Lyoto than Shogun, given the “wrestling/gnp” reason you gave. Consider that not only has Shogun shown better ability to take people down in their recent fights, he has shown the willingness as well. Takedowns haven’t been the primary weapon in Rampage’s game for years now.

  42. Mark says:

    “How long have you been watching MMA for?”

    Started in 1996, I lost touch in ’99 until 2002 and have watched religiously non-stop since then.

    I have no respect for 1D fighters. So what.

    “This post sounds like its coming from a complete noob to the sport, which is weird because normally they don’t find this site and end up over at fightlinker or the like.”

    And with your forced MMA snobbery you belong on The Underground.

    I’ve found over the years, much like people who brag all the time about how much they get laid, the more people brag about how long they’ve watched MMA and deem everyone else “TUF Noob” they’re hiding the fact they’re full of shit. So I don’t resort to looking down on people.

    “I’m still surprised you think Rampage is more likely to dethrone Lyoto than Shogun”

    I didn’t say he would. I think Machida is going to retire undefeated. I said IF a style would beat him, it’s going to be someone taking him down and pounding him out, which was in comparison to someone saying Shogun’s leg kicks were what would do Machida in.

    Which means the style (not Rampage personally) COULD be his kryptonite. And just in comparison to Shogun’s style to Rampage if he were to revert back to more wrestling could do it.

    Now, I’m not knocking Shogun. I am a fan. But it’s going to take something really special to dethrone Machida. He seems to have an answer for everything. And I want to see more out of Shogun than beating on Liddell. I wasn’t expecting to hurt so many feelings by asking that. Hmmm.

  43. robthom says:

    Jackson could be a threat if/when he’s at his very best.

    He’s extremely fast when he’s on, and extremely powerful. Especially with those hooks.
    If he had been behind the 2 strikes that Rashad did get in, it might have wobbled machida a smidge more.
    Maybe a smidge enough to capitalize on.

    He’s also got a more staccato rhythm than Shad. Harder to read, very small and rapid.

    Machida will figure out his timing eventually, and within a round. But if jackson can somehow keep the pressure on enough so that machida cant sit back on the outside and study him, it might be enough.

    But its whether the greatest version of jackson shows up, or the unfocused and emotionally drained version that will be the difference between a chance in hell and dont even bother.

    I’m leaning towards the latter, especially considering the schedule. The great jackson may come out to get past shad, but that jackson never comes out twice in a row.
    Thats one reason why he dominated the prime chuck in pride and then had nothing left for vanderlei.

    If he fights machida after shad, he wont have enough left emotionally.

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