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« | Home | »

Roy Jones, meet Kermit Cintron

By Zach Arnold | May 7, 2009

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Granted, there’s a big difference between the two fighters as far as their backgrounds go, but at least Dana White is consistent – no boxer vs. MMA fighter match-ups.

Jones, realistically, is no longer a major marquee draw. Cintron wasn’t, either, so from a pure business standpoint there is no real reason for White to accomodate either man. (If Roy Jones means a lot of money, then where are the buyrate numbers for the March Badness show from Pensacola?)

However, it does not mean that White isn’t acting hypocritically here — remember, it was White crowing about MMA around the time of Rampage vs. Liddell when everyone and their mother was pushing the “Is Boxing Dead?” storyline. Cintron, to his credit, made a challenge to fight in the cage and White backed down from it.

Other than that, I can’t really muster up much emotion on this topic. I will say that even though it’s the wrong messenger, the irony of NY politician Bob Reilly saying Dana White isn’t a person you want to do business with is amusing.

“I don’t believe this is a person who really would be a person that you’d want to enter into business with,” Reilly says.

White isn’t willing to change to appease a lawmaker. “There’s nothing I can do about that,” he says. “Am I not going to be me?”

Topics: Boxing, Media, MMA, UFC, Zach Arnold | 24 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |

24 Responses to “Roy Jones, meet Kermit Cintron”

  1. sunshine says:

    Roy Jones is just looking to cash in. Cintron was, and still is, legit. His only losses as a professional fighter are to Antonio Margarito and we all know now that those fights have to be in question. Cintron is a big, strong welterweight with a wrestling background who would do some serious damage in MMA. Roy Jones is not and would not.

  2. Fluyid says:

    Surely Jones has some one to advise him that this may not be the best of ideas.

  3. Shane says:

    Would any reputable athletic commission even sanction the fight in the first place? Even if Dana wanted to go ahead with the fight I doubt he’d run it in Birmingham, Alabama…

  4. Robert Poole says:

    Sunshine – In fairness even though he got a gift draw, Cintron clearly lost that fight with Sergio Martinez a few months back on HBO.

    I don’t see why Dana White would turn this down. Once the MMA guys shot in on them, whatever boxing skills they had would be nullified. Obviously it would make zero sense to have a stand up only UFC fight without it looking like a sham, so sign the fight for full MMA rules and let them go. If Silva’s stupid enough to try to stand up and throw fists with Jones then he deserves to lose.

    Rp

  5. 45 Huddle says:

    I enjoyed watching people’s reactions online when it was reported that Dana White said no to Anderson Silva vs. RJJ. People were bashing White to no end. Then the news came out that Strikeforce was also not interested in RJJ, and then many people’s tunes changed, and they thought it was the right move. Typical MMA crowd.

    My opinion…. If RJJ or any boxer was serious about getting into the sport, they should be picked up by the UFC or Strikeforce. However, these one time fights are pointless. Not to mention that RJJ has done NOTHING to earn a shot at the #1 fighter in any weight class.

    With that said, I have no problem with guys being fast tracked towards a title shot if they do change sports. Brock Lesnar was after his win over Heath Herring. I wouldn’t be shocked if Arlovski got a few wins under his belt in boxing, and he got a ABC Title Shot quicker then most fighters. That is to be expected. There is a certain element to fight sports that require the bigger draws to move up faster. But each fighter must show some worth in that sport before they are put in that position.

    Imagine Arlovski demanding a title shot in boxing right away? People would laugh at him, not be getting mad at the boxing champion’s promoter for saying no.

    From a business point of view, Dana White is also doing the right thing. There is so much down side to a Silva/RJJ fight, and not much upside.

    1. RJJ in his prime competed at a lower weight class then Silva.

    2. RJJ is over the hill and with a built in excuse if he loses.

    3. Silva is not the type of guy you want to put in there with a boxer. I think with kicks and knees, that he would win, but why risk it when he has a ground game?

    Just makes no sense. And I think Scott Coker realizes this too. After reading Coker’s comments about RJJ, I really like his attitude. He seems to come from the same mold as Zuffa does. In that he wants to build up his organization as more of a sport, and not as a freakshow. It is so easy to put a Jose Conseco on a card to get attention. Or build your company around a street fighter like Kimbo Slice. It will get ratings, that is for sure. But it is a short sighted way of doing business. And it’s nice to see both Dana White and Scott Coker realize this and stay away from it.

  6. 45 Huddle says:

    After I wrote my comments here, I noticed Mike Rome wrote a very good article on this topic. He said it better then I could, but generally makes the same points.

    http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/5/7/867785/the-ufcs-measured-approach-to

  7. skwirrl says:

    Huddle – Rome is gargling from the Dana man fountain.

    How fast he forgets that Dana was the #1 push to have Sean Sherk challenging Floyd Mayweather in the 8 sided chainlinked enclosure (Octogon is the intellectual property of ZUFFA I don’t wanna get sued for using that word). The only difference is Mayweather is a draw and stood no chance when Sherk eventually got ahold of him. When Cintron who had no drawing power and dynamite in his hand + a strong wrestling background offered to take that fight it came off the table real quick. Dana doesn’t have any problem with freakshow fights so long as they will make him money.

  8. Mark says:

    People still want to see a good example of how a world class boxer would survive in MMA. Is Dana White right that they’d be eaten alive? Is Teddy Atlas right that their stand up is so vastly superior they’d win?

    I believe a boxer, no matter how talented, with no grappling would be destroyed in modern day MMA. But since Anderson Silva fights aren’t exactly grappling clinics I think it would be interesting to see MMA stand up vs boxing stand up.

  9. Alan Conceicao says:

    These articles are great. Does anyone remember how Kermit Cintron came into the picture? LOL

  10. 45 Huddle says:

    Marcus Davis had a great interview a few months back were he goes into detail about how much his style had to change when he switched from boxing to MMA. He also talked about the myth of boxers coming in and knocking guys out with one punch. Basically, there are too many other elements to a fight, that a traditional boxers stance has to be greatly changed up, and many of his weapons can’t be used due to knees and kicks.

    We already have a GSP in MMA, who is taking down wrestlers. I would have to assume the same would be done to boxers in MMA as well, where they would be outstruck.

    Not to mention the Gonzaga/Cro Cop effect. Where a striker is beaten up on the ground, and when they are back on their feet, he is dizzy enough to get KO’d by a guy who is, by K-1 standars, half the striker he is. Same thing would happen to boxers.

  11. Alan Conceicao says:

    I don’t think anyone here is arguing whether or not Roy Jones belongs in the cage, 45. Of course he doesn’t. I just think the dude who threw challenges to Floyd Mayweather to fight Sean Sherk and threatened to send Chuck Liddell to a WWE event if Kurt Angle threw out any more open challenges starting to talk about how he wants to “defend the sport” from freak show matches is hilarious. Equally hilarious: The people who buy into his talk.

  12. Fluyid says:

    Here’s a what if:

    What if they made the fight and all RJJ did was run and jab?

    Anderson has definitely shown the tendency to not press the action. Could RJJ take it to a close and unbelievably boring decision?

  13. brent says:

    Alan. Cintron’s name came into play back when mayweather was bashing the shit out of mma before his fight with odh. dana brought sherk to the fight and stated that sherk could beat money with ease at mma (which is true). cintron then decided to throw in his own 2 cents and said he would fight and do well in mma because he had wrestled in college, so then cintron’s name was bandied around a bit on alot of mma websites.

  14. Fluyid says:

    ^Yep. Cintron pointed out, correctly, that he had a better amateur wrestling pedigree through high school than Sherk, for whatever that’s worth.

  15. Ultimo Santa says:

    MMA was founded on the principle of finding out which discipline is better than another, no? Why is it so crazy?

    Roy Jones Jr. vs. Anderson Silva, under MMA rules, would answer an interesting question: who would win between a slightly over-the-hill (but still great) boxer, or a BJJ Black Belt with great Muay Thai skills?

    We’re assuming we all know the answer, but it could be an interesting fight.

    Of course Dana White is only interested in Ultimate Fighting and not MMA, so no surprise there…but I’m surprised no other promotions are picking up on this.

  16. Zack says:

    I wish Cintron would have considered making the jump to MMA, although I’m not sure what level his boxing paydays are at now, and I’m not sure if he’d want to sign a restrictive contract.

    It would be cool to have a high level boxer come in who had a bit of a wrestling background and was committed to train and learn the ground game. I think it’s cool that Jeremy Williams fights in Hawaii sometimes but haven’t heard too much from him recently.

  17. 45 Huddle says:

    Ultimate Santa,

    Just like everything else with the sport, it has evolved. I wouldn’t say it is about finding out the best styles anymore. It is more about the most complete fighters, who are skilled in all areas (some better then others) seeing who is the better fighter.

    I think people wanting to see this fight (Silva/RJJ) are still hoping to see something special. Like when Vitor Belfort came into UFC 12 and shocked people with his hand speed. Or Maurice Smith beating Mark Coleman the unstoppable wrestler. They are looking for that shocking moment when the definition of combat sports has changed.

    I just don’t think that will happen anymore. Some of these guys might not be able to transition to pure boxing, but they all training in boxing and many have good fundamentals. Even Freddie Roach praised Andrei Arlovski’s boxing skills, and we all saw how well that worked out against Fedor.

    MMA is more then just one style. And I don’t see a boxer, who is even cross trained, coming into MMA and KO’ing people like never seen before. That is likely a myth.

    Doesn’t mean boxers couldn’t have success in MMA. However, their stances wouldn’t work for MMA. Their footwork would have to be motified because it would be in a cage (more circular) and not a ring. Their punching and clinching techniques would be useless as they would be taken down.

    That’s a lot for a boxer to change. And those changes would likely take away some power and technique, making them on more even footing.

    Lastly, we have already seen MMA guys get as good as K-1 fighters in terms of striking. It’s at least around the same level. Why anybody would think this isn’t the case for boxing is beyond me.

  18. IceMuncher says:

    With Anderson’s ego, he’d make an MMA fight with RJJ into a boxing match, and probably lose. It’s a big reason why this fight is a horrible idea for the UFC, but that’s not the only reason Dana isn’t taking the fight.

    If RJJ challenged GSP, Dana would be 100% positive GSP would absolutely destroy him, but he still wouldn’t make the fight happen.

  19. Zack says:

    It’s still exciting when someone is really good at one skillset and wants to go into MMA though.

    I may be on my own but the jack of all trades master of none ilk isn’t exciting for me at all. It’s awesome when someone like Jacare or Xande comes into MMA. Or even someone like Pat Barry coming in is cool…of course when Cro Cop made the crossover it was awesome, and Hunt had some big wins as well. Cintron if he was serious would be awesome.

  20. Alan Conceicao says:

    Jeremy Williams has been training boxers and MMA fighters of late. He’s basically willing to go anywhere money appears.

  21. Dave says:

    If Roy Jones Jr. wants to fight MMA he has the resources and connections to put on his own card, so why not just do it?

    If he gets a few wins he could look into a bigger promotion to book him.

    Dana White’s stance on freakshows is pretty respectable.

  22. jr says:

    “sign over your likeness to be in our video game”-Dana to Kermit in the shower

  23. Mark says:

    Well, what about all the pure-wrestlers (Lesnar, Couture, Griffin, Fitch, Henderson, ect.) who had to learn multiple striking styles, BJJ, ect. on the job. I think they did pretty well for themselves and think thats comparable to boxers having only one aspect coming into training.

    The problem is, the boxers interested have egos too big to take grappling seriously. Rahman’s agent said he isn’t even going to learn grappling until he signs for a fight, RJJ probably doesn’t know anything about grappling, and Mercer couldn’t even stop a Kimbo Slice takedown.

    But for the record I say Anderson KOs RJJ in the first round by clinching him up and kneeing him stupid.

  24. Steve4192 says:

    “MMA was founded on the principle of finding out which discipline is better than another, no?”

    MMA’s ancestors (Vale Tudo, NHB) were founded on that principle. That principal went out the window when they started adopting all kinds of rules and prohibited attacks. Modern MMA, with it’s 30+ illegal techniques and mandatory fight gear, no longer lends itself to discipline versus discipline matches.

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