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Does this man sound like he’s confident to you?
By Zach Arnold | March 2, 2009
Michael David Smith interviewed Tom Atencio and asked him whether or not a third Affliction show is going to happen. You have to read the full interview for proper context, but this paragraph is striking:
I’m kind of between a rock and a hard place. The fans and the media treat me like I’m on my 10th show. I’m on my third show, and I’m just trying to make sure I don’t make the same mistakes that I made in the other events. If there’s things I’ve made mistakes on I try to fix them. I’m trying to be methodical about everything. I’m just trying to make sure that whatever we do, we’re doing it right. And then on the other hand, sponsors and everybody else are treating it like it is my second show and trying to make me prove myself, and that’s what I’m doing. So I’m kind of between a rock and a hard place. It’s only my third show. It’s not like I’ve done this before. It’s not like we come from another organization of smaller fights. This is right out of the gate, we showed up, we did a huge show, we did a second huge show, now I’m just trying to figure out how we do our third show.
Remarkably, Atencio says in the interview that he still talks to Dana White and has ‘no problems’ with him. Also, he claims that Tito Ortiz is still under contract to UFC — true or false? Or, is this a tip of the cap to a contractual clause in UFC in which if Affliction makes an offer to Tito that UFC can match it?
MDS presses Atencio on several topics in the interview and there’s no way, in my opinion, that you can feel confident about the Affliction MMA situation after reading this. What’s so strange is that Atencio claims that the second PPV did 50% better than the first PPV show last July and the first show reportedly did 70,000-80,000 buys, which would mean you’re talking about 100,000-110,000 PPV buys for the second event. If that’s a legitimate number, why isn’t he trumpeting it? For a no TV play, that’s astounding.
There are some amazing quotes in the interview, including why Atencio hasn’t brought back Tim Sylvia or Ben Rothwell yet. Remember — there was six months of time between the first show and the second event. The tone that Atencio strikes of saying out of one side of his mouth that his debut event was the greatest MMA show ever produced and then on the other side of his mouth, “This is only my 3rd show coming up,” makes no sense whatsoever.
Topics: Affliction, Media, MMA, Zach Arnold | 21 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
I noticed that Tito seemed to be featured in the UFC fights that they showed on Spike TV last night. At least that’s what it looked like from reading the program description.
I wondered why they had Tito seemingly featured. Could this be why?
“Atencio says in the interview that he still talks to Dana White and has ‘no problems’ with him”
I’ve got to call bullshit on that.
The behind the scenes stories of the Affliction ban all suggest there is some serious bad blood there. Affliction reps were supposedly using their access at UFC events to try and poach UFC talent prior to being banned, and not just the big names we all know about (Randy, GSP, Arlovski). Supposedly, they were working their way up & down the entire roster trying to get guys to defect.
Atencio might not feel any animosity towards Dana, but I suspect the feeling is NOT mutual.
If Tim Sylvia stuck with the UFC, he would have already made around $500,000 (assuming he went 2-1). He would also still have a spot in the organization instead of likely having no chance of coming back now (cause it would look bad for him to clean out the division after he was beaten by Fedor). Quick paydays almost never pay off in the long run (minus Arlovski who is the only winner in this entire situation).
As for Atencio…. I think it is obvious that one of 3 things will happen:
1. There will be no 3rd show.
2. The 3rd show is the last show.
3. They will scale back so much in the future, that they will eventually go out of business anyways.
With Strikeforce around…. The need for Affliction is nearly zero. I would rather see the talent consolidated into UFC/WEC, Strikeforce, and DREAM. The the rest of the big players either become minor leagues or just stop running shows. That is the best thing for MMA at this time. I still would rather see one major organization with a fighters union…. But having 3 major organizations is much better then 5.
How did you come up with that $500,000 sum? You know, since the UFC was looking for Sylvia to take a paycut and all. Even then, its still, what, almost half what he made to fight the best fighter in the world? That silly Tim Sylvia, daring to fight the best competition in the world for big money…doesn’t he know that’s bad for the sport?
Show me where the UFC was looking for Sylvia to take a paycut. To my knowledge, that was never reported. He asked to be let go, and they granted it to him. That is the extent of what was released on that split.
And $500,000 so far. More in the future as well (not to mention sponsorship money. He really has no place in any MMA organization at this time. So by taking that one fight, he is pretty much out of MMA. Hence why he took that boxing match.
Zach, the first show was said to do from 65K to 100K. It is not far fetched that they did 100K or close to it.
So 50% of that number would be significantly higher. The reason they are not trumpeting that number is that Atencio promised to keep that number private that their costs significantly outweigh the PPV revenue.
So, to be clear, if he just fought maybe 5 times in the UFC against increasingly youthful and risky competition over a two year period and won the majority of his fights, he might have made the same that he did last year in one fight against the greatest heavyweight on the planet. Maybe. $800,000 guaranteed in a fight you really want…..$800,000 maybe-sorta if everything goes right against whoever. Hmmm. I’m gonna go on a limb and say you aren’t an agent.
1. Their is sponsorship money behind UFC fights that would make it closer to 4 fights.
2. Those 4 fights would have occured roughly in only a little longer period then he was signed to Affliction.
3. AND THE BIG ISSUE…. He has absolutely no market for his talents in MMA now. Nobody in Japan would touch him. He is likely too expensive for Strikeforce. And Zuffa isn’t going to sign him back.
He basically has no MMA career…. That is a bad business move. Quick money? Absolutely!! But that was extremely short cited and over the course of the remainder of his career…. Will likely cost him more then it made him.
At least with Arlovski, he made a good $2.5 Million or so, which is far and away much more then he would have made during the same time period. He won out on this situation.
Okay, so again, we arrive that if he maybe won 3 out of 4 fights in the UFC against dangerous and generally unheralded competition, he *might* make as much as he did guaranteed for fighting the best fighter in the world. Mind you, if Sylvia had won, he would have been guaranteed waaaaaay more money than he was ever gonna get from Full Tilt Poker. The logic you use is that because Sylvia would be used to making less, he would demand less from promoters. That way, if he was out of the UFC and faced with only 20,000/30,000 paydays, he’d accept them instead of turning them down as he does now. Again: I would guess you are not an agent.
Yeah, because I have always claimed to be an agent… End Sarcasm. Agents don’t always have the best interests for their fighters.
Whether you agree with me or not…. Sylvia is now a total non entity after one fight. He has no real MMA career left. That is not a good thing.
Sylvia can have a career if he wants, its just a matter of not expecting 50,000 a fight right now. If he wants to build himself back up fighting on XFC shows or whatever, he can do it. He doesn’t want to, and so he doesn’t.
Any agent that wouldn’t have suggested he take the money would have to be under Zuffa payroll. The upside was huge: More money than he was gonna earn in the UFC for some time, the chance to dethrone Fedor. If he stayed in the UFC, he could have blown his knee out in his very next fight and been washed up with no payoff.
Brandon Vera’s story is like that: He could have made Arlovski money the last 18 months, but people got in his ear. Now he’s a fight away from being out of the UFC, having made a small fraction of what he could have, while being considered a failed prospect and nonentity. Smooth move, Vera.
Lets see, against Nogeria it was reported that Tim Sylvia made 100,000, which is probably an accurate number since he got in such a huff over the reported 250,000 Lesnar was going to make.
this site reports he made 800,000 for one fight with affliction
http://mmamania.com/2008/07/21/affliction-banned-salaries-top-a-reported-33-million-tim-sylvia-earns-800000/
looks to me tim made a pretty good move
As regards the original post, it seems to me we would be criticizing Atencio if he was out there doing the usual promoter BS of trumpeting how great his shows allegedly did and how sure he is of the next one’s success. Tom continues to be what he is, a fan at the helm of a show that has put on some damn good match-ups.
We can parse PPV numbers and salary sheets all we want, but only Affliction knows the value of running these shows to their fashion business.
Have to echo Alan’s sentiments insofar as it is odd to me to bemoan the fact that Sylvia took on the best competition available, and with a healthy premium to his paycheck. 100% upside to his decision as it seems to me Sylvia was an unwanted non-entity or close to it at the end of his UFC run. I’m always glad for good matchups, and I believe very few people are terribly concerned with the ‘storyline/booking’ aspect of matchmaking. If Sylvia returned to UFC and cleaned house it would be seen primarily as a great comeback story begging for a conclusion (Fedor rematch), not some form of black-eye on the UFC or it’s titles. If Sylvia is locked out of UFC it must be for personal/monetary reasons, not because ‘it looks bad’ for him to succeed having lost to Fedor…looks bad to who?
Zach can you clarify what you mean by “no TV play?”
Sylvia probably wasn’t looking at his career over two or three years, he was looking back at his history of injuries and wondering how many fights he had left before he couldn’t compete at all.
$800k isn’t a fool’s bargain by any stretch for a guy who has spent so much time unable to fight.
“no TV play” = Japanglish terminology for a fight show (think: wrestling) that means an event that was driven without major TV revenue. Like Affliction.
To claim 100,000 PPV buys with no TV, if it’s true, is astonishing in this day and era. It’s remarkable.
Maybe the Showtime network plugging the second Affliction show had something to do with their solid buyrates? If those numbers are true, then most of us (especially you Zach) definitely ate our own shit and look foolish. And I say especially you Zach because you said they will get no more than 20,000 buys, and even 45 Huddle of all people (no offense man) even thought they would do better than that. Personally, I said between 50-60,000 buys, and most (including the one and only 45 Huddle) predicted that.
I already added the Affliction PPV buyrate issue (re: what I predicted versus reality) a few weeks ago on the site.
If they drew 100,000 PPV buys, that’s something that I think they should be proud of. And yet, they probably lost money producing content to draw those buys. I know it takes money to spend money, but…
I agree. There is no way they even broke even. But at least the solid (as we know thus far) buyrates say good things and may give them hope. The only issue now is that of over saturation on the national level in America. We have everything Zuffa related, we have Strikeforce, and that should be enough for the most part. But Affliction being around at the grand scale that they want to be at might spread the fanbase out a bit. Most people only have so much they can spend on MMA. At least it wasn’t as bad even two years ago (with Zuffa, EXC, BodogFight, IFl, etc.).
Affliction should really look into running smaller shows with cheaper talent, especially to build up to their bigger shows. They could only go so far with running two events a year. Oh, and the Showtime plug is probably over now because Strikeforce is going over to CBS and Showtime, so Affliction takes a hit there.
I don’t get the “Strikeforce removes the need for Affliction” talk. They aren’t even trying to do the same thing. Not to mention that Affliction clearly is interested in co-promotion. I can’t imagine Strikeforce turning down another Nelson/Arlovski style fight if offered.
But Affliction had the HDNet run in show, and they had the EliteXC CBS exposure from the Arlovski fight that they placed on that card. Together (or CBS alone) that’s millions of people who saw Affliction before Day of Reckoning that had never heard of it.