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UFC 12/10 North Carolina event results

By Zach Arnold | December 10, 2008

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Results here.

Update: I assumed that Spike was airing this on a delay on the West Coast per usual, but much to my surprise they aired this live on the West Coast with no delay.

Speaking of the main event… where did Yoshida go after the KO? Did he get stretchered out? The cameras didn’t show…

Addendum: After the Koscheck interview, Spike TV went to a commercial. Coming back from the commercial, Mike Goldberg is doing a wrap-up and a set-up for showing a dark match. While panning the cage, on camera you can clearly see several doctors and attendants over Yoshida on the cage mat. I can’t tell if they were stretchering him out or what kind of medical assistance they were giving to him. I’m not down with UFC and Spike TV not updating their fans on what happened to Yoshida.

With 5 minutes left to go on the Spike TV telecast, Mike Goldberg and Joe Rogan are talking about They talked about Mike Swick’s dominating win over Jonathan Goulet and they even showed the knockout of Yoshida a few times. Koscheck was shown signing autographs. You guessed it — there was no update on the medical condition of Yoshida. Nope. Nothing about the health and safety of the ‘random Japanese guy’ who main-evented the show. Goldberg went on-and-on about how what UFC presented tonight was ‘sports, it’s not real life.’

Ivan Trembow wrote two articles in 2007 (here and here) about UFC’s handling of fighters knocked out on television/PPV.

There was a horrible irony about the way UFC handled the Yoshida situation on television. They dedicated the entire show to the Intrepid Fallen Heroes fund, which is a charity to help out soldiers who have suffered from brain trauma. Yet, Yoshida suffers what was no doubt a concussion (he was on the ground for at least seven minutes after the KO happened — Koscheck’s knockout was a traumatic blow to the head), and UFC acted as if he didn’t exist — no updates on his medical condition, no cameras to check on his situation, nothing. UFC wants to be treated like a real sport by the sports media, and yet they have shown over the course of several years that when a fighter gets brutally knocked out to not show what happened to the fighter afterwards or give updates on the fighter’s health status (unlike all pro-leagues like the NFL, NBA, etc.). When the Yoshida knockout happened on the Spike TV telecast, there was over 20+ minutes left of TV time to fill. UFC chose to air a dark match (Steve Bruno vs. Johnny Rees). When Goldberg and Rogan did their final wrap-up, they had over five minutes of TV time left. There was no mention of Yoshida whatsoever, other than the brutal knockout by Koscheck being shown over and over again.

I would be interested in seeing other MMA writers comment on this situation (either in favor or against UFC’s policy of the way they cover fighters brutally knocked out on TV/PPV).

There will be critics who will whine about me bringing up this issue, claiming that I’m manufacturing a ‘controversy.’ Nothing could be further from the truth. My thoughts here in this post was real-time commentary on a show that I was watching. If the best ‘defense’ someone online can come up to this situation is ‘you’re just looking to criticize UFC while they’re doing a charity show,’ then that’s a pretty weak defense.

Update: This story says that Yoshida was stretchered out, and later added that he was released from the hospital. CBS Sports is reporting that Corey Hill is out for 12-18 months with a broken tibia. His fight is the first fight available for viewing at

For those of you claiming that I am ‘whining’ here, read this response.

Topics: Media, MMA, UFC, Zach Arnold | 75 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |

75 Responses to “UFC 12/10 North Carolina event results”

  1. rainrider says:

    It’s hard to visualize Koscheck fighting Yoshida. I don’t know if it’s because Koshcheck’s never fought Asians or because Yoshida has a history of sending psychic waves to his opponents so they drop out of or throw fights.

  2. Matt says:

    Looking forward to seeing Yoshida guillotine choke Koscheck so hard he flops onto the ground, bald, and Yoshida stands up with a clump of multicoloured hair in his hand, screaming in triumph.

  3. 45 Huddle says:

    Koscheck/Yoshida & Wiman/Edagr interest me. I guess watching Cantwell to see if he can perform in the UFC. The rest of the main card and the entire undercard have no interest to me.

    Zuffa is holding 3 cards in 10 days. WEC 37, Fight For Troops, & TUF Finale. Feels like a little bit of overkill…. Especially when there doesn’t seem to be enough talent to fill in all 3 cards….

  4. Jeremy says:

    Interesting card. None of the bouts have jazzed, but several have the potential to be damn good fights.

    It looks like one of those cards that you are more excited about afterwards than you were going in.

  5. Yoshida vs. Koscheck is a very good thermometer for Yoshida. Koscheck has some good wrestling to counter Yoshida’s cage controlling style. I think that’s a fight that will determine if Yoshida can even make a run for a title shot later on.

  6. Rollo the Cat says:

    Farber v Fioravanti will be fight of the night. It isn’t a big name fight, but who cares.

  7. Kelvin says:

    Sucks I’m 40 minutes away from this event and can’t attend…and No I’m not bidding on those 30 tickets.

  8. Zack says:

    Can’t wait for the McCulley/Sanchez super fight!!

  9. george says:

    hell yeah, McCulley and Sanchez is going to tbe crazy, both hungry and tough. it is hard to picture koscheck fighting/winning/losing against Yoshida, that is just a weird fight, coming off that loss to Alves, talk of him lealving the UFC, really weird fight for kos. i think wiman is going to get beat, as much as i like the basturd, i think edgar is too good, we’ll wee though.

  10. Grape Knee High says:

    Was there a visible size difference between Yoshida and Koscheck at the weigh-ins?

    I have a feeling Yoshida will have a hard time with Koscheck’s strength and wrestling, but I’d love to be proven wrong.

  11. David says:

    Yoshida beats Koscheck

  12. The Gaijin says:

    In other news – apparently Meltzer is going to be breaking the news story that UFC 91 broke the 1 million buy mark.

    I will be the first to admit, I am both completely amazed and stand corrected!

  13. spacedog says:

    George, don’t wee on me 🙂

    45, nice to see you taking a little smack about the UFC.

    Really I have not been excited about any of the cards Zuffa has put out in a while. I guess Brock/Randy had some interest but for whatever reason there has been a LOT of blah lately.

  14. Ivan Trembow says:

    Gaijin— As Meltzer notes in the story, the UFC was also saying “one million buys” to anyone who would listen (and print it) after Jackson-Liddell. That ended up drawing 675,000 buys. In general, don’t believe any of the UFC’s PPV buyrate estimates until the final numbers are in from cable industry sources as opposed to UFC sources.

  15. Zack says:

    They were saying 1 mil buys until Jackson/Liddell wanted their % from the PPV sales.

  16. 45 Huddle says:

    If I donate $50 to the Fallen Fights fund, will they actually show a fight? 20 minutes so far and no fight.

  17. Zack says:

    45 you should know better by now to not watch these shows live…DVR it and start an hour or so late so you can fast forward to the fights. I’m starting right now.

  18. Chuck says:

    It’s almost sad to see Samuel L. Jackson telling people to donate money…..and showing ZERO emotion, almost like he doesn’t care. It’s like his thought process was “Arrive. Read teleprompter. Cash check. Leave.”. Man “celebrities” suck!

    And it’s funny that this show is a charity show for former troops who suffered from some brain injuries…….from a sport that has brain injuries and no medical insurance for fighters. Smell the hypocrisy!

    Oh, and it’s fun to watch two fights in a row were the undefeated guys lose to journeymen fighters. You gotta love that.

    Oh, and 45 Huddle? Tim Credeur was showing crappy striking (he won BTW). Was that because of “stance changes”? Or because he has NO punching skills whatsoever and was just winging windmills? I go with the later, but what do I know?

  19. 45 Huddle says:

    Mick Foley? We should be donating money for this brain damage.

    As for the stance change… That had nothing to do with Tim. He is just a bad striker. Way to take my comments to the extreme. I think you missed the point, which is that even at the highest level of striking in MMA, the stance itself changes the dynamics of striking enough that it will never look as clean or crisp as boxing.

    Goulet has the most exciting chin in all of MMA.

  20. skwirrl says:

    uh… They show a fight that starts off with a nut shot in the first 5 seconds?

  21. skwirrl says:

    I blame it on the groin shot – he never recovered

  22. 45 Huddle says:

    I blame it on Ben Saunders being a very good prospect.

  23. Tomer Chen says:

    One word: owned.

  24. Zack says:

    Good night of fights…now onto the main event: Lakers vs Suns.

  25. Chuck says:

    Holy crap Yoshida was knocked out! That is a knock out of the year contender for sure! And I saw the Arlovski kayo over Roy Nelson! And look at that! No stance changes! How about that?

    Sorry 45, I am going to bust your balls for a while over that.

  26. Grape Knee High says:

    Zach, what exactly do you expect the UFC to say about Yoshida? He’s not dead, so what is there to say?

    He got KTFO. Probably got a concussion and looks like he also got his nose broken.

    45, your Goulet comment is pure comedy. And spot on.

  27. Zack says:

    Zach…that’s really nothing new unfortunately. I remember being there live at whichever UFC had the James Irvin/Terry Martin & Tim Sylvia/Tra Telligman knockouts…both dudes got stretchered out, and were out hard. No update…we seriously thought Martin may have been the first UFC death. Dude was stiff like Matua.

  28. Ivan Trembow says:

    The UFC did a classy thing tonight by raising money for the Intrepid Fallen Heroes Fund. Unfortunately, they continued their classless policy of how they treat fighters when they have just been brutally knocked out and are unconscious in the cage for an extended period of time.

    The things that I wrote in 2007 after the UFC’s classless handling of Rashad Evans’ brutal knockout of Sean Salmon still hold true tonight:

    “Name any other sport where someone has a potentially serious injury and the response is to not acknowledge it or update the viewers on the injury.

    It would be the equivalent of an NFL player going down from a big hit and not moving for several minutes, and the camera on the television broadcast cuts to a crowd shot or commercial break, and then the injured NFL player is never acknowledged again during the broadcast.

    That’s exactly what happened in the UFC when Telligman and Martin were knocked out (and in both of those cases, they had hours to offer any kind of update or acknowledgement to the PPV viewers), and that’s exactly what happened tonight. It was classless and it’s not something that you’re going to see in other sports.

    If you’re the UFC, you don’t have to say, “He’s okay!” You don’t have to put the camera on him non-stop and “play up the spectacle” of it. That’s not what I was suggesting at all. What I was suggesting is that they acknowledge the fact that someone is unconscious and that the fighters’ safety is the most important thing, and that whether Sean Salmon ends up being okay or not is ultimately more important than the fact that Rashad Evans just scored a highlight reel KO. It would take maybe two sentences and it would make a world of difference in terms of the image that the UFC is portraying.”

  29. IceMuncher says:

    This was a brutal night of fights. Ben Saunders knees, Cantwell’s armbar, and Kos’s KO were three of the most cringe-inducing finishes I’ve seen in months. Apparently, Corey Hill also broke a leg in the pre-lims.

    I’m interested to see how much money the UFC manages to raise with this event. It’s nice to see the UFC dedicating a show to such a worthy cause.

    Ed. — Dana White told Kevin Iole that over $4 million USD was raised.

  30. Michaelthebox says:

    Agree about the UFC’s handling of Yoshida’s KO. Its high time they improve their handling of nasty fighter injuries. They talk a big game about being less brutal than football, but you don’t see football hiding from the injuries that happen in its sport.

  31. David says:

    “They were saying 1 mil buys until Jackson/Liddell wanted their % from the PPV sales.” – Zack (VERY clever response to UFC Management)

    ZACH with the ch and all – Great op ed.. and it doesn’t have to only be “mma writers” replying.

    I think Yoshida (as in his pre-fight super double quotes -produced- “”interview””, said he wanted to show a good entertaining fight for the fans) was timid and wanted to throw and realized Koscheck was too quick.

    He looked great in previous fights.. the whole night was a sham.

    WHO THINKS they paid the fighters a “bonus” to order viewers to donate??

  32. David says:

    Another comment, after reading through the comments before my previous:

    Regarding Garcia’s resignation, what is the role of the athletic commissions these days?

    1) Newbie Refs (excuse the termanology, it fits) – like Josh Rosenthal (who maintains an awfully awkward quirk when informing fighters of the rules before a fight).

    2) Judges

    3) Rule enforcement – grabbing shorts, grabbing cage, and most importantly, shots to the back of the head during a flury, I think Swick may have thrown some close calls.

    I want to know where the athletic commissions stand in the safety of fighters, obviously nowhere in the promoters broadcast!!

  33. IceMuncher says:

    Thanks David. I was wondering who would be the first person to try to turn the charity aspect of this show into a negative remark about the UFC, and your comment about the UFC paying fighters a ‘bonus’ to tell viewers to donate will qualify you.

    Not quite as inflammatory as I wanted, but I’ll take what comes.

  34. 45 Huddle says:

    The real story coming out of 2008 is the downfall of Japanese MMA. I’m not sure what is falling faster… Their organizations or talent. It use to be Japan, USA, and Brazil as the 3 major countries for talent. With recent performances by fighters in the WEC, Yoshida getting KO’d, and Aoki & Gomi losing…. It feels like the highest level of competition is no longer coming out of Japan.

  35. Grape Knee High says:

    There will be critics who will whine about me bringing up this issue, claiming that I’m manufacturing a ‘controversy.’

    Funny, the only people whining here are you and Ivan.

    Head injuries are notoriously hard to deal with and diagnose. Other than saying “He’s not dead”, both of you have extremely unrealistic expectations of what doctors can reasonably and accurately release about a fighters condition 10 minutes after getting KTFO.

    You mention the NFL, but it’s clear you’ve never watched a football game in your life if you really think injuries are announced immediately. Sometimes they announce them much later in the game, sometimes days later. Concussions, in particular, are usually NOT announced publicly.

  36. ttt says:

    no one’s asking for a thorough medical evaluation here, just some acknowledgement that the fighter is receiving attention as a show of respect

    i also didn’t like cantwell celebrating about breaking an arm and saying that he always wanted to do that. that’s royce gracie levels of jerkness.

  37. samscaff says:

    As far as UFC not showing guys on stretchers, I dont really have a problem.

    Its certainly better than having situations like when Sylvia KTFO Tra Telligman and as he’s being stretchered out Mike Goldberg screams “Tra ‘TRAUMA!’ Telligman!!!” That was pretty classless.

    And as for 45Douchebag’s comment about waning Japanese talent. I only have one thing to say: Typical.

  38. Garp says:

    Ivan and Zach,
    I think you both have a valid point but I agree with Grape Knee High the only information that can be provided minutes after a knockout (or the brutal injuries of Corey Hill and Razak al-Hassan) is preliminary and presumptious.
    I recall the knockout of fellow Texan Sammy Vasquez. Once the fight was over he was taken to the hospital and, although many were genuinely concerned for his health, it was hours before the severity of the injury was apparent.
    What can we be told just after a brutal KO or injury? That the fighter is OK? That the fighter is not OK but sorry folks, we’re out of time?
    I don’t know if there is an easy answer here. They certainly could show us the fighter being moved to a stretcher or carried out on the shoulders of his teammates but I believe without the context of an informed and reasonable commentary, both of which are impossible only moments after one of these events, the sight of a stretchered fighter is gratuitous and further open to derision and complaint.

  39. I’m still a bit dumbfounded that the UFC would be the organization that would support the Fallen Heroes fund. I mean, they are currently trying to get funds to help out victims of traumatic brain injuries, yet we are trying to donate money by watching people give each other traumatic brain injuries. It kind of rubs me the wrong way, but whatever… it’s all for a good cause I suppose.

    Yoshida is obviously hurt badly, and the UFC likely didn’t want it to be a huge deal as they were pushing the Troops fund all over the place. Yoshida basically took a damn “FINISH HIM” shot right in the kisser after he was already KO’d standing.

    Sucks for Yoshida, man. He’s a decent fighter.

  40. JT says:

    Last night I finally realized that MMA is not for me. I thank Steve Cantwell and Ben Saunders grotesque post-fight remarks for bringing me to that realization. They both exhibited a lack of basic human respect for their opponents…who were being treated for serious injuries behind them as they bragged and let all of us know how macho they are. I am done. No class or respect. Dana White should require a basic level of professionalism….it separates us from the apes.

  41. dave2 says:

    Last night was incredibly brutal. Especially Corey Hill’s tibia breaking like that. When Corey Hill recovers he should move to 170. He is way too thin for 155. Having a huge reach at 155 won’t do you any good if you have weak legs. I knew that his skinny legs would be a problem at 155 but I never imagined before that he would break his leg in two with a checked leg kick.

    Man what was up with the brutality of this event? Wolff getting a huge knot on his forehead after the knees (hopefully no brain damage), Cantwell breaking Al-Hassan’s arm, Corey Hill’s tibia snapping in two and Yoshida being KO’d brutally and having to go out on a stretcher. So much for MMA being so incredibly safe compared to boxing. And all this happened in an event that raised money for the Intrepid Fallen Heroes Fund.

  42. 45 Huddle says:

    I think my comments on Japanese talent are spot on. It was a hotbed for the sport for so long, but lately it hasn’t been doing much:

    1. Kid Yamamoto: Hasn’t fought in 2008
    2. Yoshiyuki Yoshida: KO’d by Koscheck
    3. Hiroyuki Takaya: Beaten by Swanson & Garcia
    4. Akitoshi Tamura: Submitted by Fabiano.
    5. Takanori Gomi: Beaten by Goylaev.
    6. Shinya Aoki: TKO’d by Hansen
    7. Misaki, Okami, & Akiyama: All solid fighters, but have done relatively nothing in all of 2008.
    8. Tatsuya Kawajiri: Lost to Alvarez.

    Not to mention the organizations themselves. I have always thought of Shooto being overrated, but at least some fans could hold onto their lighter weight divisions. The WEC is now the central hotbed for lighter fighters. Sengoku always seems one show away from going out of business. And DREAM isn’t exactly doing Pride like shows.

    I don’t think England is there yet, but within a few years, it will have surpased Japan as the 3rd most influential country in the sport.

  43. […] said the event was ‘marred’ by these endings. Zach Arnold was annoyed by the fact that injured fighters were carted off the screen, never to be mentioned […]

  44. Kelvin says:

    “Funny, the only people whining here are you and Ivan.

    Head injuries are notoriously hard to deal with and diagnose. Other than saying “He’s not dead”, both of you have extremely unrealistic expectations of what doctors can reasonably and accurately release about a fighters condition 10 minutes after getting KTFO.

    You mention the NFL, but it’s clear you’ve never watched a football game in your life if you really think injuries are announced immediately. Sometimes they announce them much later in the game, sometimes days later. Concussions, in particular, are usually NOT announced publicly.”

    Indeed…it’s not like they can diagnose what happened in 5-10 minutes while still in the cage.

  45. Zach Arnold says:

    Funny, the only people whining here are you and Ivan.

    Head injuries are notoriously hard to deal with and diagnose. Other than saying “He’s not dead”, both of you have extremely unrealistic expectations of what doctors can reasonably and accurately release about a fighters condition 10 minutes after getting KTFO.

    You mention the NFL, but it’s clear you’ve never watched a football game in your life if you really think injuries are announced immediately. Sometimes they announce them much later in the game, sometimes days later. Concussions, in particular, are usually NOT announced publicly.

    I’ve watched plenty of football, basketball, and baseball games when injuries have occurred. I’ve watched many boxing fights where something traumatic has happened. In each case, the network that the fight was being broadcasted on stayed with the injury. They didn’t cut away from what was happening on the field or in the ring and they didn’t purposely ignore what happened to the athlete injured.

    Take for instance last July when boxer Oscar Diaz was fighting in San Antonio (home town area) and he collapsed after trying to get up off his stool at the beginning of a round in his boxing match (which aired on ESPN2). Diaz collapsed and ended up going into a coma. ESPN2 (lead by Joe Tessitore & Teddy Atlas) stayed the entire time with Diaz, from the minute they put him on the stretcher to when he was led out of the arena and to a local hospital. Tessitore promised viewers that he and Atlas would keep them updated throughout the night.

    In the NFL, when someone gets carted off the field, it is shown on TV. The announcers show the players huddling up in prayer, the fans standing in silence, and then the player being carted off the field.

    You didn’t even bother to address what has become an unfortunate UFC situation where a fighter got viciously knocked out and end up getting stretchered out of the arena, only for fans to not see this take place and not get any further updates on the health of the fighter from the commentators (no statements of “so and so went to a local hospital for further examination”). On last night’s telecast, UFC showed the knockout of Yoshida several times to close the show and yet didn’t discuss the fact that he was stretchered out or taken to a local hospital. The UFC’s only documented attempt so far to address the health of Yoshida is a short line in an official web site report. That’s it (as far as I am aware).

  46. Jeremy (not that Jeremy) says:

    I don’t think it’s necessary to have the cameras dwell on an injury. Are there any sort of HIPPA concerns or anything involved in this either? When you’ve got a three hour baseball game or something, it’s reasonable to expect that if someone who got hit with a ball in the first inning, you’re probably going to get some sort of update by the end of the game. Main event late in a charity fight event? Not so much.

    Ignoring it is bad, but obsessing over it seems a bit much too. Expecting more than “Yoshida took a nasty hit, doctors from the boxing authority are making sure he’s taken care of, and when we have more information, you’ll find an update on the UFC website.”

    They didn’t give us that, so I’ll ding them for that much, but no more.

  47. Michaelthebox says:

    While I stand by my statement that the UFC needs to do a lot better when addressing injuries on the live telecast, the number of injuries ironically reinforced my view of MMA as one of the safest contact sports in the world.

    I mean, last night’s card was basically as brutal as the sport gets, and after the dust is cleared all we really got were a couple broken limbs and a concussion. Yoshida got knocked out as badly as anybody ever gets knocked out in the sport, and he went home from the hospital that night. The sport is just a lot safer than boxing in terms of brain injuries.

  48. 45 Huddle says:

    Also pertaining to this Fight Night…. Winner of Fight of the Night was for Wiman/Miller. This was more ground war then standup brawl. Showing once again that the FOTN Award doesn’t have to go to a pure brawl.

  49. Jeremy says:

    December 10th, 2008 at 4:03 pm Zack Says:

    They were saying 1 mil buys until Jackson/Liddell wanted their % from the PPV sales.

    Not true. The Couture situation showed us that the ppv money starts going to the fighters a couple of months after the event, over the course of months.

    It is not that the UFC suddenly changed the numbers when they had to write a check. They pay the money as it comes in from the various cable companies.

    I remember them predicting it would do one million, but don’t remember them actually saying it did one million. It was a while ago, so I might be wrong.

    But there is no reality to what you are suggesting.


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