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Dave Meltzer’s comment on UFC bonuses
By Zach Arnold | October 16, 2008
Cryptic, evasive, whatever you want to call it (from this week’s Wrestling Observer newsletter — go subscribe if interested):
UFC has all sorts of bonuses, some that you hear about and most that you don’t.
So, name them. Why mention this item in this week’s newsletter and then not go into detail with your paying customers about what these bonuses exactly are? MMA Payout and other web sites who have focused on UFC contractual clauses and bonuses aren’t afraid to discuss what they can surmise as fact from fiction, so why the apprehension?
On a separate note…
Reading the Observer this week in terms of trying to justify or place Elite XC’s bonus situation with what UFC does was frustrating. Fine, MMA is just as much about ‘entertainment’ as it is ‘sport.’ What that has to do with the specific allegations against Elite XC management, I have no clue.
In regards to trying to historically compare the Kimbo/Petruzelli situation to what has happened in the past in Japan… we know that Japan is the Wild West when it comes to the fight business. I would like to think that American MMA fans have higher standards and hopes for how the US side of the business is ran in the States than it is in Japan (with rampant drug usage, mafia financial backing and money laundering, etc.)
Furthermore, we know that historically-speaking, Japanese MMA evolved from the professional wrestling scene there (UWF, UWF-Inter, RINGS, Pancrase, etc.) To try to compare the MMA scene in America versus the scene in Japan… I don’t see where it really fits into the Kimbo/Petruzelli scandal as far as adding ‘historical context’ to the scandal.
Topics: Media, MMA, Pro Elite, UFC, Zach Arnold | 11 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
In Chuck’s book he talked about how Dana ran out to the ambulance before Babalu got wheeled away and handed him a bonus check..for what…I don’t know.
You said ” I would like to think that American MMA fans have higher standards and hopes for how the US side of the business is ran in the States than it is in Japan (with rampant drug usage, mafia financial backing and money laundering, etc.)”.
Well, I’d like to think if I ate alot of veggies, I could take a dump and crap out bars of gold and platinum.
MMA in Japan along with boxing in the US and along with pro-wrestling in the US have had a heavy influence on MMA here in America.
I don’t like what eliteXC did, and I’m not to keen on some of these “bonuses” or some of the subtle ways UFC tries to influence things.
I have to agree. Comparing what EXC allegedly did in regards to ‘Standgate’ isn’t equivalent to what the UFC does with their bonuses. It’s just people manufacturing an excuse. If the UFC does something shady with undisclosed bonuses then someone needs to come forward with some kind of proof. Otherwise, I can’t just assume they’re doing something unethical or illegal.
EXC needs to provide some sort of coherent answers. What any other promotions may have done in the past is irrelevant to this situation. Nothing justifies giving a KO bonus before a fight. That’s a clear incentive for a fighter to abandon part of his skill set, and conduct the fight in the manner that the promotion desires.
Because Meltzer wants to keep his in with the UFC, and they don’t want those secret bonuses becoming not-so-secret.
Imagine Joe Silva going on record insinuating Lyoto Machida needs to be more exciting for a title shot(he has), Lyoto begins attempting more risky maneuvers compared to his traditonal style (he hasnt), and gets KOed for it. While the consumer thinks Lyoto is fighting a normal fight hes actually attempting more explosive advances making himself more open to dangerous positions, rather then control until his usual points victory.
supposedly matt hughes received a million dollar undisclosed bonus after his destruction of royce gracie at ufc 60. And I read this in his book. This is nothing new – Even Randy was complaining about not receiving a bonus after beating gonzaga, stating that it was normal practice for the winner of the main events to receive a special off the books bonus.
Nothing I’ve heard about the locker room bonuses leads me to suspect that they have influence on the fight, outside of encouraging action. That’s a far cry from what EXC did.
To the guys talking about UFC bonuses AFTER the fight…
Dana paying guys bonuses for putting on exciting fights is much different than paying a guy BEFORE a fight TO KEEP IT STANDING with a guy who sucks on the ground. That’s an attempt at influencing the outcome. That’s illegal.
Huge difference, and if you can’t see that, you’re a tool.
Because Meltzer wants to keep his in with the UFC, and they don’t want those secret bonuses becoming not-so-secret.
Dave is all but saying right here that the UFC essentially engages in the same activity, and if anyone knows, its him. By the same token, just as with Ring of Hell, Dave can’t been entirely honest. With that book, Dave essentially had to brush off as best he could the fact that professional wrestling was utterly abhorrent, filled with corruption and illegal activity, allowing domestic violence, drug use, rape, and scores of other atrocities to occur. Why? Because he runs a wrestling news letter. Kinda tough to sell that to people wondering about star ratings.
Same applies for MMA, except now he’s getting paychecks on two ends for that. If he decides to be totally honest with what he knows, he’d probably get a cease and desist and permanent ban from Zuffa, regardless of whether or not it was actually true. Instead, the mindles zombies will now demand “truth” from him when he’s often been the evidence they provide for their own theories.
Couple of things:
First to D.Cap: The UFC has paid extra bonuses, as Jason pointed out, AFTER the fights.
Those bonuses are generally paid out for exciting fights or to fighters that worked hard and often go to guys that fought on the ground.
Also, I don’t know everything Dave said about the Ring of Fire book, but he has regularly reported on the drugs and violence behind the scenes. He is hardly one to sugar coat pro wrestling.
I do know that he has made some comments on some things being factually inaccurate, with some stories told about Benoit that Benoit was not actually a part of.
Second: Most fighters have little interest in everyone knowing exactly how much they make.
I have been told some fighter pay, both in the UFC and in Pride, and virtually every time I have been asked/told not to give numbers.
If Dave, or anyone else, repeated EVERYTHING that they had been told, nobody would talk to them any more.
I realize the UFC wants to keep the pay a secret, but many fighters have little interest in having everyone know exactly what they make.
How many guys talk about what they get in Dream or WVR?
First to D.Cap: The UFC has paid extra bonuses, as Jason pointed out, AFTER the fights.
And you know what? No one knows what they are or when they’re paid. Why do you think that is? If they were all perfectly legit, why didn’t Dave just say that they were all within reason? He’s a little bit smarter than that.
Also, I don’t know everything Dave said about the Ring of Fire book, but he has regularly reported on the drugs and violence behind the scenes.
Listen, when it came to the book in its final form, Meltzer decided to, you know, try to brush off stuff about pro wrestlers being sexually assaulted (which were garnered by first hand accounts) by trying to argue over minor details about Benoit. If Dave really cared, his writing would be borderline interchangable with the Mushnicks of the world. Its not, and it can’t be. Instead, he often uses incredibly vague statements (“too nice for the business” being a popular one) that underlie the bigger issues.
Same goes here. If the UFC is only handing out perfectly legal bonuses, why not say it? The ambiguity follows a long history with his writing. Don’t be so dense.