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Rashad Evans vs. Forrest Griffin for NYE likely
By Zach Arnold | September 6, 2008
This according to Dana White. Will it draw big numbers on PPV?
Here’s the KO of Chuck Liddell that set everything in motion…
Topics: Media, MMA, UFC, Zach Arnold | 27 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
Rich Franklin vs Chuck Liddell @ 205!? Forrest vs Rashad should theoretically be a big fight because of the success of TUF but we will just have to find out…
RIP Iceman đ it hurt me, emotionally, to see him not throw a potential match ending overhand right, only to succumb to such a devastating blow. Good card, I liked it, worth the money. How about Hendo!?
Decent show, I thought.
I don’t think Chuck should retire, but I think he needs to find a new camp. Hackleman isn’t cutting it anymore. Super props to Rashad for proving that he’s got some true talent. He’s progressed at an astounding rate.
damn chuck got KO’ed. Evans had much quicker hands and was very smart in round 1 making chuck miss.
I think that it is safe to say that everybody, hardcores and newbies alike underrated Rashad. We have all known that Rashad has quick hands, but it never seemed like he had the power to go with it.
Well, he does. Hell, he showed more knockout power than most people have shown in ages.
Chuck could use a new camp. This was a case of a good camp vs. a comfortable camp, and the results speak volumes.
Rashad Evans vs. Forrest Griffin makes the most sense. It will be a decent PPV Draw, and Evans really is the #1 Contender at this point. I’m sure the Machida fans will complain and moan, but he is next in line after Rashad anyways.
That was a hell of a shot from Evans. But Liddell was stupid for not putting his hands up and/or slipping that shot. You could have seen that shot coming from China…
Then again, the best part of that punch was that it was a counter shot, so Liddell was out of place to block. Props to Evans for picking that shot carfully and perfectly.
“Chuck could use a new camp. This was a case of a good camp vs. a comfortable camp, and the results speak volumes.”
Monday morning quarterbacking, with all due respect.
Rashad caught Liddell with a good punch. Liddell is an old fighter. That’s that.
Pretty average card. No fights really stood out for me. But seeing Chuck go down like that was sad. I’m not a fan, but to see the guy who built the UFC go down like that was sad. If Chuck fights again, he should fight Franklin. In my opinion Evans has earned a title shot for December.
Rashad is not THAT good. Liddell is just not at the top of his game anymore and everybody has the book on him. Rashad is a credible fighter, I will admit, but let’s not get all carried away.
I wouldn’t think personally that Griffin v Evans would be a huge draw, but I never really watched TUF. The generation that did watch could answer that question, I suppose.
As commonly seen in the sport of boxing, youth and speed will eventually catch up to an aging boxer. Since Liddell is mainly regarded as a stand fighter (boxer), his limited skill set and battle against father time has, once again, been exposed.
Eventually, fans will still pay to see him fight, like the millions who still watch “De La Hoya fight”, even though the Golden Boy is a shadow of his former self.
In retrospect, Chuck’s defeat is what makes MMA so exciting but his ascension to the top of the light heavyweight ladder is a distant memory from the past.
Rashad is a Top 3 Light Heavyweight in the world. I would say to be Top 5, you have to be pretty darn good. Here is my Top 10:
1. Forrest Griffin
2. Quinton Jackson
3. Rashad Evans
4. Lyoto Machida
5. Chuck Liddell
6. Wanderlei Silva
7. Keith Jardine
8. Thiago Silva
9. Sokoudjou
10. Antonio Rogerio Nogueira
Notes: Shogun hasn’t fought in about a year, so he is out of the rankings until he competes again. The only thing keeping Liddell at #5 is his win over Silva. I honestly don’t think he could even beat Silva, Sokoudjou, Nogueira, or Franklin at this point in his career. And Evans/Machida are interchangable in the my rankings.
The LHW Top 10 as I see it:
1. Griffin
2. Jackson
3. Evans
4. Liddell
5. W. Silva
6. Jardine
7. Rua
8. Machida
9. Sokoudjou
10. Nogueira
Here are the fights already booked:
Griffin (#1) vs Evans (#3)
Jackson (#2) vs W. Silva (#5)
Jardine (#6) vs Vera
Sokoudjou (#9) vs Crane
Some logical match-ups would be:
Liddell (#4) vs Franklin
Rua (#7) vs Machida (#8)
45 Huddle,
I understand the logic of discounting Rua due to inactivity but the parts of your list I don’t get:
A) Why is Machida ranked higher than Liddell, Silva and Jardine when he has fought none of them or anyone who has recently defeated them?
B) Why is T. Silva in the Top 10 when he has never fought a Top 10 fighter?
klown: I have Machida ranked at 3. Basically the argument against putting him in the top 5 relies on MMAmath: he hasn’t beaten these top guys, therefore he can’t be put near the top. While he hasn’t beaten those top guys, he has beaten several guys at or near the top ten. He made both Sokoudjou and Tito look foolish. Just about everyone in the top ten has been exposed by someone else either high or low in the top ten. The fact that Machida has been smashing quality competition without showing real signs of weakness suggests he should be at least in the top 5.
I would move the Machida fight back a bit and have him fight Rashad for a title shot. This really is Evans’ first win against a quality opponent. Bisping is now at 185 and Rashad barely won that fight. I don’t see him being the top contender right now.
Machida has beaten: Stephan Bonnar, Rich Franklin, Sokoudjou, & Ortiz. That is a solid list of wins. Not to mention he has made each of them look like amateurs. That is why he is ranked #4. Both Liddell & Silva are 1-3 in their last 4 fights. Jardine is 2-2, but has been knocked senseless in under a minute twice. So really, Machida’s ranking is a combination of him winning, making his opponents look absolutely horrible, and the guys near him in the rankings having a lot of losses.
As for Thiago Silva, he beat Houston Alexander at a time when Houston was in my top 10 (based on his two wins in the UFC). Now that I think about it, I could put Thiago down to #9 or #10, but he is still Top 10.
Giving Rashad the next title shot makes sense to me. He’s undefeated, well known to the fans, and has momentum coming off the big KO of Liddell.
Machida doesn’t have a top win or casual fan support, and the division is too saturated with talent to give Rampage an instant rematch. Let him earn a title shot and give some rising fighters a chance to break out and make a name.
If Chuck is going to change camps, I think he really needs to swallow his pride and go down to Albuquerque for a few months. There aren’t “no distractions,” but they certainly aren’t of the same class as the ones in Vegas.
“Monday morning quarterbacking, with all due respect.
Rashad caught Liddell with a good punch. Liddell is an old fighter. Thatâs that.”
I look at it this way; Greg Jackson’s camp has two victories over Liddell, one with a not-so-great fighter, and one with a really talented fighter. Sometimes having somebody different in your corner and feeding you different strategies can be exactly what you need to rejuvenate a career.
Lets face it, Machida is the best 205 pounder out there.
Liddell’s best days are behind him. He’s still a good fighter, but his age is catching up to him. It happens to everyone. He seems slower, and his muscles look slack in comparison to three years ago. He still had a belly back then, but his physique underneath looked solider than it does now.
Unfortunately, I don’t see him doing anything but drop further down the ranks as he continues to age and the up-and-comers continue to improve.
I agree with Icemuncher.
Also, compare Liddell to Couture. Couture has physically declined but I think he may be technically better than ever. He has continued to learn and develop his game. Chuck’s progress technically seems to have come to a halt. And for whatever reason, he also seems to have somatically aged beyond his chronological age.
I’d say the biggest difference between Couture and Liddell has to do with the styles. Because he’s primarily a striker, Liddell needs to be fast, accurate and explosive on his feet, and the difference between winning and losing is usually small. A couple inches or a quarter of a second can make all the difference in the world.
Couture is more of a grinder, utilizing dirty boxing in the clinch to get takedowns for ground and pound. He uses his striking to methodically work his way inside, and once he’s there strength and conditioning matter more than explosiveness. As a result his effectiveness as a fighter is hampered less by his older age.
Really, I don’t know if I’d blame Liddell’s quickness at all. He doesn’t seem any more sluggish than before. He has never been a nimble guy. His head and foot movement seemed about on par for a Chuck Liddell fight, too.
His biggest problem was his stance and how he was (or in this case wasn’t) protecting himself. If you’ll notice, his left hand was kept in jabbing range at all times, and his right hand was continuously cocked. He wasn’t using either to defend, his right hand was just poised to unload the whole time. While this isn’t vastly different compared to the Chuck of old, it is a wide, wide opening, which we saw him fall victim to.
http://mma4real.net/wp-admin/post.php?action=edit&post=164
I’d just like to say that…
Whoops…I mean this..
http://mma4real.net/?p=164
This won’t add much to the conversation, but I got a kick out of the sportscaster saying, “This is the whole fight right here…second round knockout.” So it’s the whole fight, but it started a minute into the second round? Then again, I guess that punch was really the only action in the match, making it the only part that could be considered fighting.
“Sugar” Ray-shad Evans. At least that ads a bit more of a ring to the nickname. On Inside MMA a week ago, Tito Ortiz kept calling him “Sugar Shane,” then correcting himself.
Dave Says:
“Really, I donât know if Iâd blame Liddellâs quickness at all. He doesnât seem any more sluggish than before. He has never been a nimble guy. His head and foot movement seemed about on par for a Chuck Liddell fight, too.
His biggest problem was his stance and how he was (or in this case wasnât) protecting himself. If youâll notice, his left hand was kept in jabbing range at all times, and his right hand was continuously cocked. He wasnât using either to defend, his right hand was just poised to unload the whole time. While this isnât vastly different compared to the Chuck of old, it is a wide, wide opening, which we saw him fall victim to.”
Thank you for saying that, you are right.
Liddell didn’t loose because he’s old or has gotten more sloppy lately. He has always been sloppy. Couture, an average striker at best, beat him standnig up in their first encounter. Chuck has never been unbeatable and he has always had the same vulnerabilities, people have just always ignored this because he kept winning.
Now that he has lost a few the bloggers are allowing themselves to see his flaws.
But now the critics are going way too far in the other direction, overanalysing and pretending that Chuck’s loss in this fight was almost inevitable, given the circumstances. They are grossly overstating Rashad’s abilities, as if he’s some fighting genius who knew exactly how and when he was going to stop Liddell.
The truth behind this outcome is simply that both men swung att each other at the same time.
Rashad threw the right overhand, Chuck threw the left uppercut. Chuck missed by two or three inches, Rashad landed. The opposite could just as easily have happened. Both men threw punches leaving their non-punching hands out of position, not just Liddell, Rashad was not protecting himself either.
Now, the pundits are pointing out the flaws in Liddell’s game but ignoring the fact that Rashad was just as open in that exchange. If the roles were reversed and Liddell had landed that lead uppercut and knocked Rashad out you know that the same experts would keep on ignoring Chuck’s flaws, as the y have done for so long.