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Report: UFC wants to run shows in Japan… again
By Zach Arnold | August 22, 2008
That’s only the first wave of planned expansion. Fertitta leaving his post as the highest-paid casino executive in Las Vegas to work full-time for UFC was with the goal of trying to duplicate the company’s U.S. success on a worldwide basis. There are even serious talks of running a regular schedule of events in Japan, now that the company has a television deal, although that is more on the long-term radar.
If UFC thinks that getting back on WOWOW means anything in the Japanese marketplace, then they are totally clueless. They would be fortunate to sell out a building like Yokohama Bunka Gym (5,000 seats) and be lucky to get 70% capacity at a place like Ryogoku Kokugikan (11,000 seats) if they tried to run in the Kanto area.
A WOWOW television deal didn’t mean much for SWS in the early 1990s, it didn’t help RINGS survive in the mid-to-late 1990s, and it likely isn’t going to give UFC much exposure at all in 2008-2009. Why even bother trying to go back to Japan when the MMA scene has fallen off a cliff? Even the native players can’t muster up any juice whatsoever in the marketplace.
Some advice to UFC: Give Japan a two or three year break so you can wait and see what Kazuyoshi Ishii does. If Ishii reinvents DREAM or creates a new MMA project to test the waters, then maybe consider co-promoting shows with K-1. Otherwise, don’t bother.
Topics: Japan, Media, MMA, UFC, Zach Arnold | 28 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
i think i would have to agree with meltzer on this one. if their own countries fighters cant keep the fans interested, i dont see how the ufc’s mostly non-japanese fighters can. although if anyone does stand a chance its gotta be the UFC. maybee BROCKZILLA can gap the bridge.
Brockzilla was involved in a 3-way main event (against Chono & Fujita) for New Japan that drew one of the lowest paid attendance figures ever (if of all-time) at the Tokyo Dome.
How were the ratings and attendance for his IGF appearance with Angle?
Horrible.
ZACH. i stand corrected. but that was pro-wrestling right. i guess it doesnt matter though, i think the japanese like the fake stuff better. oh well, maybee they’ll come back around someday. how does K-1 still do? i havent watched that in awhile, seems like im watching half a fight compared to mma. one would think the martial arts would have some sort of place there. it originated in the far east i believe. what about sumo and judo? those still have to be big japan right?
The Japanese people are looking for a change of entertainment from their current redundant display. They need someone like BLAF to the rescue for shock and awing them into purchasing all things UFC.
Actually, sumo has been on a decline in Japan. There are a lot of foreigners in the top ranks, which is never good in Japan, and there have been match fixing controversies as well as a relatively recent hazing death in one of the stables.
Sumo isn’t going away…but something is going to break at this rate. Maybe they will decrease the number of grand tournaments.
WWE has had success running occasional tours of Japan even with Japan’s pro wrestling promotions dying slow and painful deaths. Combine 1) Japan’s historical interest in combat sports, 2) Japan’s greater wealth and willingness to pay high ticket prices vis-a-vis a lot of the other places they are considering, 3) the novelty of UFC running in Japan for the first time in many years, and 4) UFC’s status as the top MMA company in the world after purchasing Pride, and I think a UFC Japan show could do quite well once or twice a year. Obviously a better TV deal is imperative if you want to rely on the market as a regular stop, but I think you’re way too pessimistic on how well UFC would do as a novelty, Zach.
News stories about a Zuffa run UFC talking about going to Japan borders on meme status now, its been brought up so often. They have not one of the major draws in Japanese MMA nor do they really have access to any of them at the moment. Meanwhile, boxing has been doing fantastic the last 3-4 years with Sakata, Naito, and the Kameda Bros scoring big ratings on a fairly regular basis. Sakata/Naito has been heavily rumored for awhile now and that would pull a 30+ share with relative ease, 10 times what a DREAM show peaks at.
The UFC’s talk of international expansion is smoke and mirrors anyhow. They’re gonna expand to Germany? Intersting, given that you still can’t see their shows unless you’re at Rammstein Air Force Base. Phillippines? Yeah, I see a developing nation with no naturalized MMA stars of serious value with an arena MMA show (no, Vera doesn’t count). India? China? Don’t make me laugh.
Agree that the WOWOW TV deal might be over rated. I dont think it will reach other than the die hard fans.
Hope they try to get back into Japan though, might create some attention around the sport. They wont make money on it though.
From memory their last event in Japan was in Differ Ariake, they should sell out that.
Todd, I think we all get that Japan has a pretty good base of interest in MMA. The problem is that its not big enough at the moment for someone like the UFC, particularly given that as an organization, they’ve never drawn significant interest, they have none of the Japanese draws, and have a TV deal that is comparable to the first season of Bodogfight. The thing is that they can’t realistically make money there and as an MMA organization, they can’t run tours. Talking about running Japan is blowing smoke up the asses of the fanboys willing to believe anything. They’ve already displayed that they have no idea how to do business there before and they clearly don’t want to share. How are they going to accomplish anything?
It was at Yoyogi National Gymnasium, and it didn’t look like they were running the whole place. The ring walk from the stage to the cage was incredibly short.
As for the WOWOW deal, well, they were on WOWOW for most of the decade, including during the boom era. It didn’t seem to do much then. Now MMA is still popular but not nearly so popular it demands the TV coverage it once had. I don’t know that those circumstances help them.
They ran a show at Yokohama Arena on 3/1/03 that did around 12,000 paid and it scared everyone to death. WWE had a deal with Total Sports Asia. However, every other show in the market (after Yoyogi with Hunter vs. Tajiri) did 50% or less for houses. They were touting 7,000 for Budokan shows. WWE also had a key ingredient when they first went to Japan with TSA — they were on Fuji TV. Once Fuji TV canceled them, the houses went down in a hurry for spot shows. WWE recently opened a new office in Japan, but don’t expect them to go back to do serious business there.
None of the major TV players are thrilled about putting money into combat sports right now in Japan.
The ticket prices for UFC shows these days in North America are higher than most Japanese fight shows ever charged.
The image of UFC amongst the hardcore fight fans in Japan is that they were the greedy gaijin company that killed off PRIDE.
Look at UFC’s past track record in Japan. The vaunted Ultimate Japan show with Sakuraba vs. Conan Silveira did 10,000 max at Yokohama Arena. After that, UFC struggled to draw in places like Tokyo Bay NK Hall and Differ Ariake for goodness sakes.
That strategy will get you nowhere in Japan unless you are on broadcast television. Hell, UFC would have better coverage if they bought paid programming air time on TV-Tokyo than relying on WOWOW at this point.
You’re missing the larger point, which is that UFC attracts little or no interest in Japan amongst *both* casual and hardcore fans. In addition, you should know by now that without major muscle on the ground, you can’t promote anything in Japan without major interference from the yakuza.
Which goes back to what I initially wrote, which is that UFC should wait to see if Ishii can get business back on track and then co-promote with him. If they try to run in Japan on their own, it will be a giant headache and another regrettable moment in doing business in Japan.
What would the strategy be for UFC… call up Koichi Kawasaki (agent) and ask him to run the show? I would laugh if that happened. Given UFC’s track record, they’d book Hiromitsu Miura, Yoshiro Maeda, Kaoru Uno, and other Japanese fighters who never drew significant money in Japan and then wonder why their spot show in Japan can’t draw money.
damn. you guys blow me away with your japanese marketing knowledge. now just who to belive. D.CAPILATED. i think the ufc is really tring to globalize the ufc and the sport of mma, but your probably right, it will take a very long time if ever, but i do agree with TODD that with pride fc’s former success there and the right maketing, the ufc and mma could become relavant in japan again. plus theres always canada,(already pretty big there) mexico,england and australia. ive talked to quite a few brazillian fans and surprisingly even with their great brazillian contingent, mma isnt really preveleant there either. its all about soccer(futbol).
Canada’s problem is that outside of Montreal, the major population centers have MMA banned. Mexico and Australia are outrageously overrated in terms of the fanbase. Couple all this with the fact that the UFC historically refuses any copromotion and has actively refused to take any such help (in part why no UFC took place in Japan back in 04/05, M-1 copromotion in Russia) even in the US should lead sane people to realize that the UFC wants to control every aspect. Right now, globally, to try and do this sort of expansion without TV and without significant numbers of local shows or without lots of local fighters, they are doomed. And inevitably we will hear that there were complications and that someone was an asshole and didn’t do business the right way or whatever and then Dana will write off country after country.
D.CAP. in the end you may be right, but the one thing, the main thing, is that the ufc has succeeded in the sinlgle biggest market in the world, the U.S. market! once you have made it in the u.s, youv’e made it. everywhere else is just icing on the cake. and if mexico and australia’s fanbase is outrageouly overrated, then so probably is germany’s,india’s and yes china’s. (i dont care if china has more t.v’s, they are still a 2nd world country and that is not meant to be an insult)
Wouldn’t some sort of deal in South Korea be a safer and relatively lucrative bet at this point?
You don’t need a gigantic base of support or big TV deal to be successful running once a year. You’re looking at the business sense of UFC running Japan as if they’re trying to do what Dream is. They’re not. They don’t need their revenue to be primarily coming from wherever they run the live show. It will still come primarily from the US. They’re just looking for places that will draw a good crowd at high ticket prices from time to time and expand awareness in that market.
The question is how Japan would do as a once or twice a year market relative to the Philippines, Germany, South Korea, Mexico or the other places UFC is looking. And I’m telling you, you’re getting so caught up in the doom and gloom that is running a full time promotion in Japan that you’re missing the issue at hand, which is foreign markets for sporadic UFC events. I’m sure all of these new markets have on the ground issues that make running shows tricky, from lining up the right TV deals to dealing with local promoters to finding the right places to advertise. Japan is richer than just about all of those places, it’s more aware of a lot of the UFC fighters than most of those places because of Pride, it’s got a larger hardcore MMA fanbase than most of those places (even if that base is getting smaller), and there will be a strong novelty factor to UFC running for the first time in Japan since they became a big deal. The rules are much different for UFC today than they were in 1999.
Doesn’t the article say they are looking at it down the line?
It’s hard for me to buy overly optimistic or pessimistic views of the expansion at this point. Nearly everyone that deemed the UK expansion a failure after two shows looks like a fool right now, and they do have a fantastic television deal in the Philippines.
What do you think that Ishii will be able to do Zach? Do you have any idea if he is going to try anything different to what Tanigawa has done with Dream?
I think it would be a bad move for the UFC to try and get into Japan,its hard enough for Dream and Sengoku to create interest in their product,but for a foreign company to do it would be near impossible.
DREAM, at this point, is not really a strong brand. Why prop it up when the track record so far is kind of lackluster? Sure, the fights have been good, but not a lot of people are watching.
Ishii will not give up on MMA, but how he redefines the business and what the role of it is in the K-1 landscape is certainly going to change in 2009. Ishii may not be exactly the most savory character on the planet, but he’s a terrific ‘big concept’ marketer in terms of coming up with hype for guys like Mirko Cro Cop and Bob Sapp.
If you asked me who I trust in Japan long-term for running an MMA show, Ishii or UFC, I think we all know what the answer is.
If I were Zuffa and I wanted to get back into Japan, I’d do it with WEC. I’d set up a fighter exchange with Pancrase and Shooto, co-promote, and work up from the bottom.
Dana wouldn’t do that, but Lorenzo might.
@ D.Capitated re: “Canada’s problem is that outside of Montreal, the major population centers have MMA banned. ”
Untrue. Calgary and Edmonton are among the top five most populated cities in Canada, and MMA is completely legal in both of them. Of the top five largest cities in Canada, only two (Ottawa and T-dot) have MMA banned. Outside of Ontario and the city of Vancouver, MMA is generally legal across Canada.
I’m not an expert on the MMA Market, but it just seems like it is more trouble then it is worth.
The two largest english speaking cities in Canada don’t allow MMA, and neither does the third largest. If you crunch the numbers, that’s half the population of the country and those in the densest regions thereof.
Hopefully Dana and Lorenzo will complete their due diligence thus time in working with the Japanese…I think that’s why Dave is saying it’s a long term goal.
The two largest english speaking cities in Canada don’t allow MMA, and neither does the third largest. If you crunch the numbers, that’s half the population of the country and those in the densest regions thereof.
No. That would make up a quarter of the country’s populace. It’s still besides the point though.
The UFC brand is already strong and well exposed to Canadians because of the U.S. media presence. The UFC derives the vast majority of its revenue from PPV buys. Canadians are already buying PPVs, the rest is just icing. If they want to reward their Canadian fans with a show in their city, fine. There are already large enough fan bases in several other Canadian cities to fill a 10k arena. A show in Calgary or Edmonton would sell out easily.
No. That would make up a quarter of the country’s populace. It’s still besides the point though.
I’m confused. Are you saying that Ontario has less than 25% of Canada’s population?
As for them being able to run Edmonton instead, I dunno, maybe. There’s been no MMA shows of that scale before in Edmonton and few boxing shows of that scope to compare to, not to mention having a much smaller population than Toronto or Vancouver.