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UFC 86 (7/5/08 Las Vegas)
By Zach Arnold | July 5, 2008
Reports: USA Today | Sherdog | Five Ounces of Pain | Bloody Elbow | MMA Junkie | NBC Sports
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Topics: Media, MMA, UFC, Zach Arnold | 28 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
Holy crap that was a bloody mess.
Could see Almeida/Cote going either way. Neither really deserves the win.
After 1 round, Quinton looks chubby and slower then normal, yet he still won the round.
Only way Quinton loses this fight is if he gasses.
I feel like the judges and I were watching a different fight.
It was a good call by the judges.
Forrest knew he Forrest won. Quinton knew Forrest won. 3 Judges knew Forrest won.
Quinton Rd 1. Forrest Rd 2 (10-8). Very close round 3, but if I had to choose, it is Forrest. Round 4 Quinton. Round 5 Forrest.
Which means 48-46 for Forrest, which i believe 2 of the judges had.
I’ll have to rewatch the fight. I had Rampage winning at least three rounds and couldn’t justify 10-8 for the second round as Forrest did very little damage after he mounted Rampage.
On the plus side, Rampage vs Wanderlei 3 will surely happen now.
A close fight. Forrest was the agressor and I think that won him the fight.
As I said, it was close. While you may not agree, it could have gone either way and the decision was hardly a robbery.
Once again, Forrest rises to the occasion when everyone counted him out.
I really think that Rampage underestimated Forrest, and that may very well have cost him the fight.
Some scorecards from around the internet:
Kevin Iole: 48-46 Forrest
Dave Meltzer: 47-47 DRAW
Dave Doyle: 47-47 DRAW
Bryan Alvarez: 48-46 Forrest
Sergio Non: 47-47 DRAW
BloodyElbow: 47-47 DRAW
Dan Stupp: 48-47 Quinton
Sherdog has crashed so i couldn’t get their scorecards.
But so far that is:
Forrest: 2
Quinton: 1
DRAW: 4
It comes down to the 3rd round, but its hard to see on TV who connected better. Either way, Quinton at best got a DRAW.
i have never seen anybody be so unhappy winning a world title. forrest answered questions like he had lost (moreso than his usual demeanor). i’m pretty sure he felt like a non champ.
I had that 3 rounds to 2.
immediate rematch please.
Todd Martin, on CBS, had it 48-46 for Forrest.
From the Wrestling Observer:
Adalaide Byrd who scored it 48-46, gave 4 and 5 to Jackson and Griffin 1, 2 and 3 with 2 as 10-8
Nelson Hamilton had it 48-46 with 1 and 4 for Jackson, and Griffin getting 2 10-8
Roy Silbert had it 49-46 with only round 4 for Jackson.
Sherdog:
TJ De Santis: Quinton
Jordan Breen: DRAW
Mike Fridley: Forrest
Saw a few sites who didn’t score it, but said it was an extremely close fight and they are glad they weren’t the judges.
I thought Forrest won. It doesn’t matter, it wasn’t a robbery in either case. Rampage needs to fight Wanderlei again, and then rematch with Forrest.
I would pick Rampage in a rematch.
Cote did not look like a predator, it looked like he was hitting the heavy bag. Thought Rampage would dominate, but he looked like he just woke up from a nap when he stepped in the cage. Forrest appeared to be pushing the action, but Rampage was connecting much more and harder. Wasn’t surprised where the judges went on this one.
Exciting fight. I had also had Forrest winning 48-46. 1 and 4 were all Rampage, 2 and 5 were all Forrest (10-8 2nd) and the 3rd I barely gave to Forrest. Even if you give Rampage the 3rd, it’s at worst a draw for Forrest.
LOL @ anyone giving Forrest round 1.
I thought it was obvious Jackson won based on damage. Forrest pressed the action, but never came close to finishing it or even hurting Rampage. Rampage had 1 knock down and a few more serious close calls. I don’t see how you can give a guy that much credit for “pressing the action” when he ends up getting hit so hard in the face that he can’t follow it up. I thought it was a robbery, but I’ve never been happy with the criteria or the method of US MMA scoring.
I didn’t find the show up to that point very interesting and the decision left such a bad taste in my mouth that I can’t see myself getting too interested in a UFC card until Wandy or Shogun return. Thankfully, there’s so many other shows going on it won’t be an issue.
Rampage was limping on his way out of the cage. While we can’t see the impact of the kicks, they did a fair amount of damage. Page’s knee buckled several timesin the first round.
As far as folks giving round one to Forrest, I would guess it was because of those leg kicks. By the end of the round, Rampage was clearly having trouble with that leg.
If Forrest is fit to fight in October, I want him to fight Machida ASAP. No reason for Lyoto not to have a shot if Forrest is the beltholder, even if UFC might have had reservations about potentially damaging one of their more expensive properties.
Next up would either be Chuck or Wanderlei, I expect.
Forrest did great with the leg kicks early, but was less effective over time and, most importantly to me, couldn’t capitalize when he had the chance. There’s not too many KO’s by leg kicks in MMA. There happen to a lot by getting hit in the head. I give more credit for doing damage in a way more likely to directly finish the fight than leg kicks which are most often a set up to put you in a position to finish fight.
Again, I freely admit my thinking is not how USA MMA bouts are typically scored. I feel with the countless ways one can finish a fight the most important criteria should be who comes the closest to finishing, how close, and how often. I don’t think every offensive move deserves equal consideration, or any consideration. It should depend on how it builds to the finish.
Forrest won the fight. People need to realise that punches aren’t the only scoring strikes.
The most damaging strikes in the fight were the leg kicks. It crippled Rampage so much that he became more defensive as the fight went on. That was the difference in the fight. Rampage could barely walk after the fight was over.
In a close fight like this, whoever you favor to win will likely have won on your score card. However, based on number of strikes thrown and landed, Forrest won 4 of 5 rounds. Striking power is subjective, so there is a lot of bias involved, including Fightmetric’s evaluation.
Forrest’s got KO power in his legs. He should try more high kicks. Cro-Griffin anyone? I can see how he broke the reporter’s femur with one kick to his leg.
That fight was a draw, no question.
Leslie,
So you’re not counting the near submissions at all?
I gave it to Jackson and at worst a draw for the champion. 1 & 2 went to each fighter. 3 I gave to Jackson as well as round 4. 5 Griffin. There were rounds that were close and difficult to score but I like to think the challenger has to take the title so if its close the champion should get the round.
Sad that you can lose your championship on a decision that is either a legit draw, or at best a marginal victory for the challenger.
The fact that the fight didn’t have a final sudden-death round is a travesty.
Boxing’s antiquated ’10 point must’ system – that belongs nowhere near MMA – strikes again, and puts yet another blemish on a UFC contest.
Hat’s off to both men for fighting their asses off.
Well 2 of the attempts came in Rd 2, which went for Forrest regardless.
The triangle I initially thought was close, but hell, Rampage got out of it rather quickly and it looked effortless. Rampage dominated the striking in that round as well. So even with a good attempt of my favorite submission, I didn’t think Forrest won that round.
If this was a boxing match Rampage would have won. But unfortunatly this is not boxing it is MMA. Rampage landed several good punches, Forest landed a few good punches. Rampage got the half mount and dropped a few punches. Forrest landed several good leg kicks and a couple of head and body kicks. Forrest also landed a knee. Forest also put him in a triangle, as well as the guillotine, he didn’t finish him but he put him in them none the less. Forrest also got the full mount and dropped elbows for half a round. Now I was for Forrest, but I figured that Rampage would win. The fact of the matter is that Rampage boxed Forrest, and Forrest dominated him with all other aspects of the fight.