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About that UFC merchandising agreement…
By Zach Arnold | June 24, 2008
Josh Gross at Sports Illustrated sounds the alarm and Rob Maysey has further comments on the UFC merchandising contract being offered to fighters.
Topics: Media, MMA, UFC, Zach Arnold | 26 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
this story makes it sound like gross was the original publisher of this information. I believe in giving credit where credit is due, and if you check dates on both gross’ articles, and the MMAFA blog site, you will see Rob Maysey was the one who originated it.
1. Does anybody know how the big sports like MLB, NFL, & NBA share revenues with athletes for jersey’s and uniforms and such? Without this comparison, it is nearly impossible to say if the deal is good or bad.
2. Have to laugh at Josh Gross a little bit. The only person he could get to speak negatively about the program is Cesae Gracie. Yet he makes no point in saying that Gracie is generally a pain in the a$$ when dealing with any organization.
They share them on the basis required by their collective bargaining agreements.
Article 25 of the NHL agreement (first one that I have at hand, you can find it easily enough on the internet) where the players created the “NHLPA Group Licensing Program” and the NHLPA (their union) is thereby authorized to license out hte players names, signatures, pictures, biographies, records, playing numbers, and likeness in any situation where three or more of the players are used on any single product, advertisement, or series of products of advertisements.
The logos and uniforms are the properties of the clubs, of course.
That’s why you see that games etc are branded with the logos of both the players association and the league.
Of course, MMA fighters still haven’t set up a union, so their individual contracts are going to determine those terms, and they basically have the choice of playing along or going elsewhere. If they had any sense, they’d see how they could organize a union.
Athletes in football, basketball, baseball, and hockey make between 53 and 59 percent of gross revenue. Mixed martial artists make less than 10 percent in the #1 organization in the world, the “Super Bowl of MMA.”
It also should not be surprising that there are far more people willing to talk about the merchandising situation off-the-record than there are people willing to talk about it on-the-record, given the fact that the co-president of Zuffa recently said in a Rolling Stone article that he will destroy anyone who he deems to be an enemy.
How many people do you think are going to want to go on-the-record with their concerns about the merchandising situation, or about ANYTHING, under those circumstances? Not to mention the fact that they have no union or even any informal collective bargaining, so there’s no leverage.
The fighters must form a union, there are no 2 ways about it.
I wish Randy Couture, Tito Ortiz and others would focus their energy on kickstarting this effort rather than quibbling over pay and “respect”.
The way to claim better pay and more respect is to organize a union.
A union sounds good in theory. But I don’t think it’s realistic in an individual sport like Boxing or MMA, where the fighters are independent contractors with their own business managers and agendas.
I think the real solution is competition. If fighters have other organizations where they can fight and make comparable money. They won’t feel obligated to sign contracts or merchandising deals they are not comfortable with.
This is exactly the kind of deal you’d expect from Zuffa.
Ivan, for you to continually trumpet those figures for the NHL, NBA, MLB and NFL just shows your lack of business knowledge and history.
MMA is a different sport that is in a completely different stage of the industry life-cycle than these other sports that have been unionized for years and have been established for decades and in some cases over 100 years.
Instead, why not ask yourself how it even took them to become unionized and for them to even hit those revenue figures? (Hint: it took a hell of a lot longer than the 15 years the UFC has currently been around.)
Just to avoid confusion (and getting back on topic), if everyone is accurate about that licensing deal, I hope none of the fighters sign it.
The “in perpetuity” clause in particular is unconscionable.
Love Cesar. I can just imagine him getting Nate all hyped up about this.
Also I read both articles but I’m still not sure if I can believe this, but does this agreement really mean that they own the rights to these guys forever? Even if they fire them? Join another org? Leave MMA? Can something like that stand up in court?
That it took other sports a long time to create unions doesn’t exactly prove a lot now that they have existed for at least a couple decades each. I think if there was a serious attempt to create a fighter’s union, Dana saying “It took baseball 100 years for Curt Flood!” wouldn’t be too meaningful. Curt Flood, afterall, already happened.
I don’t think there will be organized labor, however. I do think a lot of top fighters will look at these clauses and tell the UFC to forget it. What happens to them will be telling.
Here is a question I have; what kind of contracts are UFC fighters under, anyway? Are they actual employees, if so, of UFC or of Zuffa? Are they independant contractors?
If the clause is truly “unconscionable” then it’s going to be unenforceable as well. I don’t know if it is or if it isn’t, but my sense is that any clause that is said to apply indefinitely probably is not enforceable (certainly not indefinitely since no IP lasts indefinitely, although congress certainly has been doing their best to ensure that nothing ever enters the commons again lately), and if Zuffa has intelligent lawyers, then they’ll pare that back quite a bit. Frankly, I’m starting to have my doubts.
It took MLS about ten years to get a labor agreement, largely because the players (backed by the NFLPA) decided to sue the league based on it’s structure as a “single entity.” The lawsuit was clearly just an NFL proxy war, and cost the players a lot of time that they could have used in negotiating better pay and conditions.
Labor contracts are the norm in professional sports. If the fighters had any sense, then they would form a union and get a hard-nosed back-biting asshole to be their representative.
I think it’s difficult to categorize the fighters as UFC employees, because of the nature of the fight contracts.
The UFC basically reserves the right to cut a fighter at anytime, regardless of how many fights are left on the contract. And they can do so without any compensation to the fighter. If the fighters were employees, I think they would be entitled to some compensation if they are cut from the roster with one or two fights left on their deal.
Why do that when it’s much easier to get bloggers to sit around and whine about it incessantly?
Hey, I’m all for the lazy option, believe me.
I’m not known for my good sense where my own welfare is involved either.
“Also I read both articles but I’m still not sure if I can believe this, but does this agreement really mean that they own the rights to these guys forever? Even if they fire them? Join another org? Leave MMA? Can something like that stand up in court?”
Yes, that is what the contracts say, and no, that would never hold up in court if a fighter ever sued the UFC to challenege it. Like the “no-compete clause for life” deal with champions, it has no legal legs on which to stand. The UFC wouldn’t be able to use Brock Lesnar right now if a court hadn’t dealt WWE a setback in every step of the process when they tried to enforce a six-year no-compete clause on Brock Lesnar’s WWE contract (which would have prevented him from doing any MMA or pro wrestling until June 30, 2010).
However, even though it would never hold up in court if a fighter sued, this brings us back to the quote from UFC co-president Dana White in Rolling Stone that he’ll destroy anyone he deems to be an enemy. These circumstances mean that the “cost” of filing such a lawsuit for any given fighter would be far greater than just the attorney fees.
Grape Knee High, rather than whining about whining, why not contribute something productive to the discussion?
What is the best way to protect fighters’ interests in today’s MMA industry? Should we even care about that and try to think of solutions?
Solutions? Why do we need to think of any? Personally, I don’t think there is even a problem with regards to salary.
If fighters get paid shit, it’s because they’re not worth more. If they’re still unhappy, form a union.
“If fighters get paid shit, it’s because they’re not worth more. If they’re still unhappy, form a union.”
Or the fighters are getting payed shit because the owners are cheap pieces of shit. And about starting a union…..a hell a lot easier said than done, especially when it comes to combat sports. Because if fighters decided to try to form a union, and the bosses find out, then the fighters could get released from their contracts. I’m pretty sure Jesse Ventura got fired from the WWF in the eighties because he was ratted out to Vince McMahon because he wanted to start a union. It was rumored that it was Hulk Hogan who ratted out Ventura.
Oh, and you think there is no problem with the fighter salaries? How would you know? You are not the one making the money nor fighting for them, how do you specifically know how much the fighters are worth? How would you like it if someone said the salary you make isn’t worth as much as it is? It’s kind of arrogant of you to say there is no problem with any of the fighters’ salaries, whereas there are guys that are clearly underpaid by the UFC. Especially the prelim fighters. Many of the prelim fighters would probably make as much money fighting a swing bout in the UFC as they would the same card position on any other medium to medium-big promotion in North America. It seems like fighting for UFC is best for getting the best exposure, not exactly the best for earning potential for the most part. For earning potential I am sure K-1/DREAM is best in that regard. I think…
Fighters make plenty of money. The only ones that don’t are the so-so fighters that are easily replaceable.
I don’t like to spend time arguing whether people that make more money than I do should get paid even more, especially when they’re famous, on TV, and do a job I’d take a significant pay-cut to have.
You’d take a significant pay cut for a 10-15 year career that would leave you with no retirement benefits, no realistic future earning options, and probably next to nothing in savings? Uh huh.
“You’d take a significant pay cut for a 10-15 year career that would leave you with no retirement benefits, no realistic future earning options, and probably next to nothing in savings? Uh huh.”
10-15 year career if you are lucky and decent at the very least. Why would anyone take a paycut to be a fighter or pro wrestler? The only exception is if you are an up-and-comer of course. I have heard quite afew stories (and even talked to one such guy) who are fighters or pro wrestlers (the dude I talked too, he is actually both believe it or not. He doesn’t really wrestle anymore) he was telling me that he got his master’s degree, got his teaching certificate, and got a job as a first grade teacher somewhere in New Jersey. He was a really cool guy, and his brother wrestled on the show that I met him at. He told me he became a first grade teacher so he can make enough money to take a trip to Thai Land to train in Muay Thai.
Which brings me to a question. If you have a master’s degree, and a teaching certificate, then why the hell would you want to fight? Fighting is a way out for most people. I hope he doesn’t face a huge culture shock in Thai Land, on the grounds that he is a white guy with blonde hair with money, and he probably never trained in a barn with a hose in the back to take baths with..
Ah, stupid me! I forgot that many people in the fight and wrestling game have college degrees. My bad! But most of what I said still stands. Why would anyone take a paycut to be a fighter? How about you train, and train hard at that, pay your dues, work your way up from the bottom, and go from there? Last I checked there were no fight genies that would grant you awesome fighting prowess and abilities on the grounds that you give up something important (whether it be a pay cut,your first born, etc.).
If the fighters aren’t happy with their pay: GET ANOTHER JOB.
No one is forcing them to fight for the UFC or even be a fighter at all.
What next, you guys gonna go on a crusade on why McDonald’s cashiers are underpaid? Fighters that bring in PPV buys are very well compensated. Fighters that don’t, are not.
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