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Why the weight issue matters (Diaz vs. Corbbrey)
By Zach Arnold | June 16, 2008
Video link from Pancrase.org
Just some visual evidence to support the arguments I presented in my new article at MMA Memories.
Topics: Media, MMA, Pro Elite, Zach Arnold | 11 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
As I said previously on this subject: Two weeks ago, it made EliteXC look bad to have created a weight class (140-pound women) specifically to favor Gina Carano, only to have her fail to make weight to a ridiculous degree.
This weekend, it made EliteXC look even worse to have created a weight class (160-pound men) specifically to favor Nick Diaz, only to have Diaz fail to make weight to an even more ridiculous degree.
I was a really huge fan of Nick Diaz, but some of his decisions as of late I am not impressed with.
It was hard for me to watch his last fight, given that he was so much bigger than his opponent – it was like a heavyweight fighting a light-heavyweight.
For all of the problems with boxing, at least they make it a point to have weight limits and stick to those limits.
Unfortunately, we are at the stage in MMA where not making weight seems to be the new “fad”.
I also heard about the incident with Diaz and Noons and that is not cool – from the reports, it seemed like the Diaz brothers were being “punks”, and Noons and his father were on the receiving end, and all this on Father’s Day weekend. What a disgrace.
If this supports your case then what about the numerouse old school UFC and mix matched PRIDE fights that completely go against the bigger = better idea? I just see no need to call for blood when someone misses weight. Take a bit of their purse and move on, make it harsher and people might as well pull out of fights claiming illness or injury. If your new rules were in place Alves would have been better off pulling out due to his injury, even though he’s clearly superior to Matt Hughes and his weight likely had no effect on the outcome. The same is clear even in the Diaz and Carano cases. They were just better.
However, Lutter still got pummeled by a superior fighter. We saw Silva work over heavyweights in PRIDE. I’m not saying it’s clear cut that weight doesn’t matter, I just don’t think this one example is proof of much when we’re talking a rookie taking on a favored vet.
Coming in at a higher weight gives you an unfair advantage over your opponent.
Replace weight in your post with steroids, which is a considerably worse variation of the same offense, and you’ll notice the faults in your logic.
How is steroids a considerably worse variation?
There’s no hierarchy of evil.
Daiju Takase taking the fight to Terry Martin’s junk and Nick Diaz coming in nine pounds overweight are equivalent, with the exception that Takase wasn’t allowed to win his fight.
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Just got an email confirming UFC 88 Liddell vs Evans in Atlanta.
Well, for starters steroids are illegal. Also, you make an intentional decision to cheat when you take steroids, whereas you might accidentally miss weight despite having honest intentions the entire time. I think that makes it a considerably worse offense.
And, if you’re Sean Sherk, then you’ll argue that you accidentally (or never) ingested steroids.
I’m not going to take someone’s word for their intentions when it comes to gaining an advantage in a sport.
Oops, I missed weight. Oops, then you can’t fight.
The solution to not making weight is to fight in the proper weight class. If someone can barely make 170, the answer is to fight in the 185 division where that fighter really belongs. Weight cutting was not in the early UFCs nor popular with Japanese fighters in the 1990’s. Weight cutting was brought into MMA by wrestlers. Weight cutting should be banned by MMA organizations. People who are raised in the wrestling culture are brainwashed into believing that weight cutting is just part of sports.
“Replace weight in your post with steroids, which is a considerably worse variation of the same offense, and you’ll notice the faults in your logic.”
Did you actually read my post? Or Zach’s article? Yes, I’m sure if you replace “steroids” with “weight” then the harsh penalties Zach proposes make sense. However, you just said steroids where much worse so this comment makes no sense. People are already punished for missing weight. Zach proposed penalties so stiff it would be better for guys to just claim they are too injured or sick to fight, then fight overweight. That would not be a good thing.
As all of reality has taught us (well everyone but conservatives) stiffer penalties don’t equal less violations. This is an especially bad idea when it’s based on examples of guys and girls (Alves, Diaz, and Carano) who had no incentive or need for extra weight, since they were clear favorites in their fights.
Have you ever watched a fight or cut weight in your life Leslie? The former possibly but the latter I doubt. All of the above people would not have been nearly as “impressive” as they were in their fights had they had to go through the strain of dropping weight. Gina may have some excuse as women naturally have a tougher time dropping water weight and she had a short camp. Alves and Diaz do not. Diaz came in nearly 10 lbs over weight, there is no way that was accidental. The amount of strain he saved his body is marked as when he fights at 160 hes sluggish and weaker from trying to put back on 10 lbs of water weight. Alves the question isn’t him cutting 4 lbs, its him cutting 4 MORE lbs. Those last lbs are the hardest and they take a heavy toll on your body. Both of these fighters wouldn’t have been the same in the ring/cage after doing that and it negates your entire arguement about them being just plain better.
“Have you ever watched a fight”
Do you read comments before responding with this sort of nonsense? I doubt it. Diaz and Alves looked the same as they always did. They were facing inferior fighters. There’s no clear incentive for them to pre-meditate missing weight, so proposing draconian punishments based on these examples would be a bad idea. The ideas proposed would be so harsh that people would benefit from just dropping out of fights due to injury or illness as opposed to fighting overweight. Do people actually want to see that? Or do they just want to see people punished harshly for perceived wrongs, with no concern for the actual consequences.