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« | Home | »

Monday night headlines (1/28/2008)

By Zach Arnold | January 28, 2008

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  1. The Glasgow Daily Record (UK): UFC cage fight chiefs start Scottish venue hunt
  2. The Baltimore Sun: Sanctioning in Maryland won’t be quick for MMA
  3. The Houston Chronicle: UFC is hoping Brock Lesnar can do heavy lifting
  4. Herald Net (Washington): Bob ‘The Beast’ Sapp is coming and might be Japan’s biggest export since Godzilla
  5. MMA Payout: UFC 81 preview – the pro-wrestling push
  6. Dave Meltzer (Yahoo): Looking at wrestlers and MMA
  7. The Canadian Press: Ex-wrestler Brock Lesnar finds his calling in MMA
  8. The Canadian Press: UFC fighter Tyson Griffin says bring on another Brazilian black belt
  9. The Fight Network: IFO is finished
  10. MMA Memories: The brand or the star?
  11. MMA Analyst: Ortiz vs. Machida, Tito’s nail in the coffin?

Topics: Media, MMA, StrikeForce, UFC, UK, Zach Arnold | 50 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |

50 Responses to “Monday night headlines (1/28/2008)”

  1. PizzaChef says:

    No coverage of Shogun, Ninja, and Dida forming Universidade da Luta, Zach? It’s on MMA Weekly. Huge news a Chute Boxe seems to be falling apart.

  2. Sergio says:

    Any word on who Shogun is facing in Montreal?

    Is he even still rumored for that card?

  3. The Gaijin says:

    I think we’re starting to see the bubble burst with a lot of these upstart mma promotions, fronted by the money marks, circling the drain.

    * Bonecrunch Fighting: done
    * IFO: done
    * WCO debacle
    * IFL is on its last legs; and
    * Pro Elite bought up a few of the actually successful regional promotions (ROTR, KOTC, Cage Rage)
    * I can’t see a bunch of these other guys who jumped in for a quick buck lasting much longer (i.e. UAFC – Art of War) unless people are content to lose their shirts – heck even the UFC’s numbers are down, but they’re solid enough to take the hit.

  4. The Gaijin says:

    @ Sergio:

    the last rumour I heard, he had been moved off of that card and onto the 84 or 85 card.

    The Montreal card is looking less and less appealing each time out. They seem to be holding off a bunch of previously rumoured fights and inserting all the Canadian guys on their roster. I guess they figure the power of their first Canadian show w/ GSP’s title shot is going to sellout the joint anyways and they’ll just serve up a bunch of the Canadian guys b/c they’ll get hometown pops.

  5. klown says:

    I liked one of the early “leaked” cards which had a good mix of top fighters and local fighters. I believe it featured Parisyan, Rua, Cote, MacDonald…

  6. Jeremy (not that Jeremy) says:

    ProElite bought up the successful promotions and now they’re looking pretty shaky too.

    Seems rather like the worst case scenario for that venture, IMHO. I’m not sure it could work out much better for UFC than to have a rival promotion pop up, buy out most of their competition, then fold.

  7. Chuck says:

    It’s a shame to hear about these promotions folding. That’s less work for fighters to get. Not everyfoghter is going to get in the UFC you know. And Pro Elite buying out regional promotions that are actually very succesful for being regional feds can be bad, because what if Pro Elite ever goes under? I pray to GOD Pro Elite doesn’t buy out Strikeforce, who are still succesful just staying in California and doing shows in Washington state.

  8. Its unquestionable that Zuffa is rooting for the rising Machida and hopes to make him a star by defeating a legend, but Zuffa is also aware that they can’t determine the outcome of fights and would glady have Ortiz back into the title picture because of his drawing power. Its a win-win. Such is the genius of Joe Silva.

    What I find laughable is Ortiz’s recent comments on Fight Network radio about how he wants to fight for an org that will get behind him. Let’s not forget that this isn’t the first time Ortiz left the UFC much to the same tune. The UFC achieved even greater success and exposure without Ortiz and when Ortiz was given a gift by being a coach of TUF, he gladly accepted and achieved his biggest paydays to date.

    If Ortiz wants to higher profile matches and wants to be the poster boy, he needs to convincingly rise above his peers (like his good “buddy” Chuck). He has no one to blame for that but himself and to complain that the UFC hasn’t promoted him or given him opportunity to shine is just ridiculous and dishonarable.

  9. The Gaijin says:

    If not for Ortiz drawing in a lot of the initial fan interest at the beginning of the “Zuffa” UFC would still be doing shows in New Jersey with 35,000 ppv buys.

  10. To be honest, Tito recent rise to Hollywood is probably going to his head. He’s now on national television, and probably feels his value has only increased.

  11. 45 Huddle says:

    Even Strikeforce is going to eventually dry up the San Jose Market. I have a feeling their WA show is going to flop.

    Really, MMA has never taken off in America. Only the UFC has. Most of the organizations can’t make it in the market. The fans just aren’t there for it. People want to see the big show 16 to 20 times a year, and then go back to their other sports. They don’t have the time or money to make these other companies a financial success. And the hardcore fanbase is far too small to keep any MMA organization afloat.

    As for Tito Ortiz… Keep in mind this is the same guy who was basically claiming he needed more money before fighting Chuck Liddell the first time. The same guy who basically left the UFC after UFC 51 because he didn’t feel like he was being paid enough. And yet, when the truth came out, Zuffa was actually losing money.

    And now he is saying the UFC isn’t giving him a good fighter. I think Machida is favored in this fight. Machida is a huge prospect. I think the STD’s that Jenna has given him has messed up his mind.

  12. The Gaijin says:

    On the same token, he’s up for a contract and probably (and rightfully) feels that his contribution to the success and growth of the UFC should be reflected in his next contract.

    It’s basically the same idea as Couture’s complaints, except that he’s actually fully free to negotiate a new contract. It will be interesting to see the UFC’s stance on bargaining with him, given that he’s a true free agent, one of their few remaining big name draws and he’s made the company a sh*t load of money over the years.

  13. The Gaijin says:

    Sorry 45, but the Fertittas aren’t the only “businessmen” involved in the mma game.

    Tito demanded more money b/c he knew how much that fight was going to sell and he wouldn’t fight until he got what he felt he deserved. What is wrong with that?

    Go to MMA Payout and look at the numbers that Ortiz’s PPV & tv fights have brought in and compare them to everyone else’s. They’ve tried to “Arlovski” Ortiz as much as they could over the last year or so, but I really don’t think it’s going to be in their best interest to let him walk to a competitor either.

  14. D. Capitated says:

    Tito, for all the talk about how the UFC helped him with the resigning, was on his way to starting his own promotion if the $300,000 guaranteed a fight he wanted didn’t materialize. Intelligently, the UFC gave him everything he wanted and ended up with the two biggest buyrates in the history of the promotion, as well as a pair of lesser cards getting nice boosts. If he walks, he just gives someone like ProElite (who will gladly pay him every dime and then some) the biggest name in the history of the sport and a license to make money.

  15. The Gaijin says:

    *Bingo*

  16. cyphron says:

    Tito was a star when the UFC had a shallow talent pool. It was much easier to promote him then when he was a world beater. Tito helped the UFC and the UFC marketing machine helped built his popularity. It’s not a one way relationship as they both helped each other.

    Ultimately, MMA is about winning. The UFC has plenty of fighters that are better than Tito at this juncture in his career. As good as the UFC is at marketing, how do you promote a guy who doesn’t win? Look at what Chuck’s losses have done to the growth of the organization.

    Besides, Tito is a whiney little bitch.

  17. The Gaijin says:

    Hey I dislike Tito as much as the next guy, but you’re naive if you’re trying to deny his “star power” and ability to draw PPV buys.

    Say what you will about Ortiz, but even in his less than spectacular recent performances he still pulled in huge buys for the UFC. Other than Liddell (whose star was legitimized by Ortiz) and Rampage they don’t have anyone whom they seem confident in popping a buyrate at 205 – their bread and butter division.

    The draw for PPV buys is not ultimately “all about winning” – Roy Jones Jr. and Tito Trinidad haven’t been winning the big fights lately, yet they just pulled in 500,000 buys. If Tito walks, he’ll be boosting the status of whatever organization he goes to and giving them a legitimate and known PPV-buy magnet(while putting as much $ in his pocket as he can).

  18. D. Capitated says:

    Tito came into a talent heavy pool in the UFC, beat a guy who is now the #1 contender, faced the dominant champion, and then went to a super tight 3 round draw against a top 10, hell, top 5-7 light heavyweight. He may very well beat Machida (whom has never faced a wrestler the size or skill of Tito), and then he’s done with his contract. And he beat up Ken Shamrock really bad twice. Let’s think about this for a moment. How is that a worse situation for someone picking Tito up than it was the UFC signing him in 2006, when he hadn’t fought in like a year since the Belfort fight?

  19. The Gaijin says:

    “As good as the UFC is at marketing, how do you promote a guy who doesn’t win? Look at what Chuck’s losses have done to the growth of the organization.”

    There’s just as much blame to be laid at their inability or unwillingness (depends how you look at it) to try and promote fighters other than your “poster boys” or best buddies in real life. It’s not like the case of having Jardine (a marketing nightmare) beat arguably your biggest star at the time – Rampage could have been made into a media star just like Chuck had been.

    They’ve dropped the ball in terms of turning an excellent marketable commodity in Rampage up to this point. This could easily change with the TUF season – but why they weren’t getting this guy out there after he demolished Chuck still baffles my mind. They inexplicably continued to push Chuck as their organizational and 205 flagbearer – and until Jardine derailed their plans, he was getting the fast track to another rematch.

  20. cyphron says:

    I agree that Rampage hasn’t been marketed more… but that’s about to change with TUF 7. Hell, Tito and the UFC exploded in popularity with TUF.

    With so many great fighters, which fighters should the UFC keep and which should they dump? They can’t keep them all can they? Between a fighter like Tito demanding 250k plus PPV and a fighter like Machida who demands considerably less with much more upside, I know who I’d pick. For the price of Tito, you can get both Wanderlei and Silva and a couple of Pride fighters as well (if you factor in PPV %).

  21. Psygone says:

    I think this is a good match up for both Ortiz and Machida and I think all the negative rhetoric is unnecessary. How else is Machida going to make a name for himself if he doesn’t beat notable guys and why should Tito be above fighting a legit fighter like Machida?

  22. D. Capitated says:

    Tito has all the upside, not Machida. Machida speaks no english and has been dishwater dull much of his career. Plus, only god knows what Machida might want whenever his current deal is up. For the talk about what they can get with the money they spent on Tito, Wanderlei, Thiago Silva, etc. aren’t going to sell PPVs like Tito can, nor are they necessarily even as good as Tito is. Plus, they already have those guys.

  23. Chuck says:

    “Even Strikeforce is going to eventually dry up the San Jose Market. I have a feeling their WA show is going to flop.

    Really, MMA has never taken off in America. Only the UFC has. Most of the organizations can’t make it in the market. The fans just aren’t there for it. People want to see the big show 16 to 20 times a year, and then go back to their other sports. They don’t have the time or money to make these other companies a financial success. And the hardcore fanbase is far too small to keep any MMA organization afloat.”

    I’m sorry but I have to disagree with you (there will be no name-calling this time, I promise!). Sure, UFC is THE big dog in the States, but there have been MMA promotions that have done respectable business, especially regionally. When Icon Sports (which has since been bought out by Pro Elite) was still Superbrawl they used to fill up building in Hawaii. Strikeforce does really well in san Jose (but you may be right that they will probably suck that territory dry) but I don’t know if the washington show will bomb. Actually, I will call it now. Their first show (with Bob Sapp on it) will do well business wise, but Washington shows afterwards will do significantly less business. And I think K-1 will always have an American home at the Bellagio Hotel in Las Vegas. But they should STAY FAR AWAY from Los Angeles for a long time, unless they get a smaller venue.

  24. Psygone says:

    Tito doesn’t need another star to draw interest; I thought that was the only thing we all agreed on. So Machida is foreign and defensive and needs help selling tickets, that’s why you put him in with a guy who can draw. This seems like basic promoting to me.

  25. The Gaijin says:

    I think the idea is that it’s pretty transparent that they’re putting him in there with a “sleepwalker”, in a less than high profile fight and from the sounds of it, in hopes that its going to damage his rep/draw right before renegotiations.

  26. I think the idea is that it’s pretty transparent that they’re putting him in there with a “sleepwalker”, in a less than high profile fight and from the sounds of it, in hopes that its going to damage his rep/draw right before renegotiations.

    Its sad to see Zach’s timeout hasn’t helped Gaijin and Dcap reevaluate their beliefs and continue with the same misinformation.

    Myth #1: Arlovski was buried. Loretta Hunt has gone on record along with some other journalists that Arlovski was offered two fights that fell through in 2007. Its also well known that the UFC won’t give title shots to fighters with only one fight left in their deal so the “champ” doesn’t walk away with the title. Loretta Hunt also explained that Arlovski’s camp is EXTREMELY private about their financial affairs so no one should be saying that Arlovski asked for too much or the UFC is too cheap. We don’t know what those numbers are.

    Myth #2 Rampage is not being promoted.
    Listen to the first episode of Gross Point Blank. Rampage himself says he could not be more happy with the way he is being treated and promoted. As well going from anominity to celebrity overnight.

    Myth #3 The UFC needs Tito. Again, let’s not forget that Tito has left once before and no one hardly missed him. In fact, the UFC rose to new heights in popularity behind TUF, Icemand and Randy. No big contract ever came from Pride for Tito and his bolster of starting another org was just talk and nothing concrete ever materialized in the media, which is funny for a guy who loves the media spotlight as much as Tito does.

    Myth #4 Tito has no upside in a fight with Machida.
    This is total BS. Machida is the highest level opponent Ortiz has had to face in years behind Belfort (Griffin and Evans were still raw and lack Machida’s resume) and could be his greatest challenge ever. Machida is currently ranked #1 or 2 in the LHWs and has impressive finishes in his last two fights. A win for Tito would put him right back in title contention and don’t think for a second that the UFC wouldn’t like to see the old Tito comeback and challenge Rampage (however unlikely). That would break all previous PPV records.

    Folks would be wise to heed the words of Rampage (paraphared): “Don’t assume things that you don’t anything about because you’ll look like an ass.”

  27. Ben says:

    Gaijin, this isn’t right before negotiations. Zuffa tries to get new contracts worked out BEFORE the last fight. They use the last fight on the contract as a bargaining chip, holding fighters off for months until they agree to terms. See: Andrei Arlovski.

  28. Dave2 says:

    45, If you really feel it’s a bad idea for Strikeforce to concentrate their market on San Jose, then what would you consider a good plan? It’s a smart idea for smaller promotions to think regionally rather than over-expand themselves ala IFL and fall flat. EliteXC is the #2 promotion in America but Strikeforce probably will have more staying power because SF has shown that they can put asses in seats in San Jose with their consistently great paid attendance figures (they even hold the record for paid attendance in NA for MMA events). What do you suggest 45? Should Strikeforce expand beyond NoCal and become a West Coast Promotion (which they are experimenting with by going into Washington State) or a South-West promotion? I don’t think it would be smart for Strikeforce to go national now.

  29. The Gaijin says:

    Sorry if you feel the fact that a “timeout” didn’t turn me into a UFC sycophant that agreed with everything you hear from Zuffa sources and what you yourself believe.

    What do you expect Rampage to say? He’s the champion of the company and getting paid. Please point out to me all of the publicity and celebrity making exposure he’s gotten from the UFC. Please, please dispel this “myth” with examples of how up to the point of being put on TUF 7 that he’s been promoted. B/c other than appearing on webcast interveiws and mugging for UFC cameras at events, its NON EXISTENT. Christ even cyphron can agree on this point.

    Hunt’s report was admittedly, at best, a RUMOUR. They couldn’t do so much as provide the name(s) of fighters he was offered, not to mention this came from a inside Zuffa source – all the while White has been doing pressers making thinly veiled comments about the Arlovski situation, that don’t take a Rhodes Scholar to decipher. And there’s nothing to say that even if this rumour had an ounce of credence, that this wasn’t anything more than a formality of making an offer for a fight that magically fell through…it’s pretty humourous to think you’re taking this stance on that particular argument and then don’t even take a moment to consider that over the past 11 months the best fight they’ve been able to come up with is Jake f*ckin’ O’Brien.

    In the eyes of the casual fan, NOT the hardcore (and trust me – the casual fan’s opinion and preference far outweighs the hardcore’s) Machida is a nothing fight. He’s a legitimate opponent in terms of “fighter rankings” for Ortiz. Other than that, this fight is a no win situation for Tito. He wins, so what – he gets ZERO publicity from fighting 3rd from the top against a guy that speaks not one word of english while fighting a “cerebral karate point” style and if he loses… he lost to someone that about 4% of the casual fanbase gives a rat’s ass about and likely still won’t care to see in the future.

    God you’re awesome.

  30. The Gaijin says:

    And then let’s all watch the promos and ads for UFC 81 – where the main event is a crippled former “company golden boy” vs. a former pro wrestler with 1 pro fight. An event that’s getting a promo blitz that I don’t recall any other event getting for quite some time.

    *Imagine how big of a star Rampage would be if he got a 1/10th of the hype and push Lesnar’s getting…

    *Hmm…weird that the biggest selling headliner and the company’s golden goose is getting ZERO press and 3rd billing against 205’s answer to insomnia in his last fight under contract.

  31. Dave2 says:

    Machida is legit but yes, he isn’t marketable at all. If Tito beats him, the fans won’t care. If Tito loses, the fans won’t care about Machida and it would only serve to make Tito look bad. If the UFC can’t get the fans to stop booing Anderson Silva after all this time, you think they’re going to be able to market Machida? If you are going to use Tito Ortiz, you have two options. 1) Try to generate a comeback by having him fight marketable talent OR 2) You use Tito Ortiz in order to build young talent with potential for stardom. Machida won’t satisfy either 1 or 2.

  32. cyphron says:

    It’s nice to see that people are passing off opinions as fact nowadays.

    Opinion #1: Casual fans don’t care for Machida.

    Opinion #2: The fans still want Tito Ortiz.

    Opinion #3: The UFC doesn’t know squat about how to market their fighters.

    Opinion #4: The casual fans are morons and care only about popularity and not winners.

  33. The Gaijin says:

    Opinion #1: Well there’s no perfect way to measure this until the guy starts headlining ppv’s – when do you think the UFC will have any faith to put him in a main or semi-main event?? While this is an opinion, I believe it’s pretty much a consensus among many that the casual fans don’t care for Machida and his boring style.

    Opinion #2: Ummm….this is pretty easy to tell based on PPV and TV numbers that the guy has been putting up. What evidence is there that they don’t want him?

    Opinion #3: When was this passed of as a fact? It’s been cited as an opinion, backed up with evidence of why this opinion has been formed.

    Opinion #4: Frank Mir vs. Crock Lesnar is the main event of a ppv this Saturday, Chuck Liddell is still massively popular and is already rumoured to be in line for a title shot vs. Rampage/Griffin, how many casual fans like Tim Sylvia? etc. etc. etc.

  34. Here’s a video of Darryl McDaniels from Run DMC being star struck by Rampage:
    http://www.tmz.com/2007/10/05/rampage-knocks-out-dmc-with-star-power/

    Do search on Rampage on TMZ.com and you’ll see him hobnobbing with other celebs.

    Here an *Celebrity* feature interview by DUB magazine:
    http://www.dubdaily.com/?p=1401

    Seems like the rest of the world is treating Rampage like a celeb despite your protests.

    As for Tito vs Machida, if that fans don’t care about Machida, why does the UFC keep bringing him back and featuring him on the main PPV card? Regardless of Machida’s popularity, again if Tito wins, he is at most one win away from a title shot. So how is that of no value to him?

  35. The Gaijin says:

    Seriously? Seriously this is “the world” treating Rampage like a “celebrity”?

    DUB Daily and a paparazzi video taping a current C- or D-list celebrity shaking hands with ‘Page (who they were following around, not Rampage)…wow-I stand corrected!

    *rolls eyes*

  36. The Gaijin says:

    fyi – Kimbo Slice and Tank Abbott are getting more “celebrity” treatment than Rampage…take that for what you will.

  37. cyphron says:

    Gaijin,

    You have always believed what you wanted to believe. All the evidence to the contrary wouldn’t sway you.

  38. The Gaijin says:

    Hey, I’m all for being presented evidence to the contrary of my present stances and able to accept that my stance is wrong.

    But when I’m provided with such glowing examples of evidence against my point of view like:

    *Rampage Jackson was in paparazzi clips that feature other celebrities = he’s being made famous
    *Rampage is in DUB MAGAZINE, that’s right THE DUB MAGAZINE – HE’S A CELEBRITY.
    – Meanwhile Tank Abbott’s doing interviews on Jimmy Kimmel, Kimbo Slice is on ESPN…but the UFC’s really doing their piece to promote Rampage – they show him in the audience at their ppvs!

    *Every credible source under the sun have said he’s being sat on the sidelines until the 11th hour before fulfilling his contract; Dana’s made thinly veiled statements to the fact in press conferences BUT Loretta Hunt reported a *RUMOUR* that an “inside UFC source” was cited saying Arlovski was offered 2 fights = UFC wasn’t actively fucking over his free agent bargaining position (ignoring the fact that he’s now slated to face the almighty Jake O’Brien while the guy he last defeated gets a title shot).

    I’m really not going to be swayed by horrible counterarguments like these.

  39. Gaijin, first off, Rampage doesn’t have a fight coming up in months so its common business sense that the UFC is going to market some of its other fighters that do. But before Rampage’s debut he was given the same All Access treatment that Lesnar is getting now. He appeared on the VGA Awards (I think) and he also appeared on a Fight Science show. I could go on, but like cyphron said, its not going to matter what I say.

    You’ve pretty much lost all credibility by saying that Run DMC, rap legends/pioneers with a huge standing in the black community, are C list nobodies and that Loretta Hunt is not a realiable souce. Hunt is also a pioneer in covering MMA and is probably one of the most trusted and well respected in the business. Don’t also discount the fact that she’s with the Fight Network, which the UFC doesn’t like and she’s writing Randy’s bio. So she’s far from someone who is going to tow UFC’s company line. If she goes on record about something, I’m assuming her sources are reliable given her professionalism and I’m going to hold it high regard.

    Amazingly, you’ve managed to also discount the words of the very man in question: Rampage, who is known to be candid and outspoken. You know you’ve gotten far off the beaten path when you can’t even take a man at this own word.

  40. The Gaijin says:

    While Run DMC may be pioneers of rap and well known in the black community – today they are no better than C-list celebrities. Case in point: Reverend Run’s VH 1 tv show. VH1 is nothing more than a gossip channel that C-list celebrities will go on to maintain their fame and make a buck (i.e. Kardashians, Posh Spice, Hogan, the Surreal Life). Someone can be a huge star in one decade and a relative unknown today – this is the case.

    I never once said Loretta Hunt wasn’t a reliable reporter, only that the ONE news piece that went against what everyone was saying was admittedly (by Hunt) a RUMOUR. They didn’t provide her with WHEN the fight was offered, WHO the fight was against, WHY the fighter pulled out or from WHAT injury. It’s funny that they always announced fights when they’re set up and then will pull them if there happens to be an injury – but only in this case they just did it all behind the scenes and conveniently THIS time it was never announced at either end.

    Hey maybe Rampage is happy with the way he’s being treated. He’s getting money in his pocket, he doesn’t have to deal with shady yakuza in Japan and he’s the champ and I’m sure that’s all well and good. What good do you think it does him to publicly bash the company in the media? None – so I highly doubt he’s about to start doing it. There’s two fighters thus far that have had the power to do so and did it (Liddell would be the 3rd if he chose). Rampage is NOWHERE NEAR popular or famous enough to do that – maybe they’re trying to keep it that way (Brand > Fighter)?

    Oh that’s just a foolish idea with no credibility…

  41. So basically, you’re speaking out for a fighter who is widely regarded as the figher-of-the-year, had a banner 2007 year, had his KO of Iceman on Sportscenter, is getting all kinds of endorsments like his own sneaker, is famous enough for celeb sites like TMZ to call out and to top it all off, he is going to be coach on TUF. Yup, Zuffa sure is doing a great job of surpressing him. The evidence clearly shows that. 😉

  42. The Gaijin says:

    Regarded as FOTY by hardcore sites that cover mma, knew who he was before the Liddell fight and had him as the favorite?
    – Wow, they really put a tough sell on for the hardcores there!

    KO of the Iceman on ESPN – of course they showed it, the UFC hyped the shit out of how awesome Liddell was and how this was “the biggest fight ever”. Clearly they’re showing this fight regardless of the outcome.
    – Remind me…who got bookings on Letterman after?

    TMZ – hahahahahahahahahahaha. that’s all I have to say about that one. OOOhhhh…80’s rapper enamoured with “ultimate fighter”. Great job there.

    TUF coach – I said already in this thread that it appeared their push of him was about to change b/c they couldn’t just shoehorn Liddell back into the title picture. Go READ it…i never said they weren’t going to push him. I said they shot themselves in the foot following their biggest media exposure to date b/c they showed an inability or unwillingness to start pushing him as the champ rather than continue to hype up Liddell.

  43. You do realize that Chuck put over Rampage right? You don’t protect a fighter by putting him against the guy who is most dangerous to him. While Zuffa would never admit it, I think they wanted Rampage to win because Chuck’s title reign was getting stale and Rampage winning opens up many more potential fresh match ups. Not to mention he’s younger with more long-term upside.

    As for the Letterman appearance, there’s two possibilities: 1) Letterman wanted Iceman 2) UFC wanted to repair Iceman’s stock. That said, what other glaring examples has Chuck been publicized over Rampage?

    BTW your attempts to laugh off my points lack substance and quite frankly, its rather immature. You demand solid evidence and examples from me–to which I’ve indulged because I want to see how long you can keep this up, but apparently that standard doesn’t apply to yourself.

  44. The Gaijin says:

    I’ve laughed off ONE point that you keep trying to put forward – that appearing on TMZ means (a) Rampage is a celebrity in the eyes of ‘the world’ – especially when the coverage has more to do with the people who he’s pictured with and (b) that his appearing in TMZ has anything to do with Zuffa’s attempts to promote him as champion and a face of the organization. That my friend is what I find to be laughable.

    As for Chuck “putting over” Rampage, this isn’t professional wrestling. In that vein Serra was given a rub by GSP for losing to him, even when UFC had all their eggs in the basket for GSP to win that fight, much as they did for Chuck. That in my opinion is where they dropped the ball – they had no contingency plan whatsoever for Rampage actually beating Iceman and following his win they did little to change their focus.

    IMO everything he’s gotten in terms of exposure has been on the part of his own management rather than Zuffa’s attempts to get him out there. They’ve done it with Liddell, Couture, Franklin but from what I’ve seen they’ve done absolutely nothing in terms of promoting Rampage up to the point of him being named a coach for TUF 7. Rampage is a young, charismatic and exciting fighter with plenty of upside and thankfully has the ability to sell himself – I think the situation would be a lot different if you had Machida or someone like Keith Jardine (god forbid) winning the belt. I really don’t see how this point can be argued at all, I really don’t.

  45. Chuck says:

    “That said, what other glaring examples has Chuck been publicized over Rampage?”

    Liddell is still doing commercials and whathaveyou. I haven’t seen Rampage in any non-UFC commercials. I can’t remember what the commercial was for, but they showed him throwing a punch, and calling it the “hard sell”, and showing a hot chick, God I can’t remember exactly what happened and what the product was. I think it was the same commercial that Burt Reynolds was in.

    And why did you say Liddell put Rampage over? Last I checked, even though MMA is pretty similar to pro wrestling in quite a few ways, it isn’t fake. I don’t think Liddell did “the job”.

  46. That in my opinion is where they dropped the ball – they had no contingency plan whatsoever for Rampage actually beating Iceman and following his win they did little to change their focus.

    IMO everything he’s gotten in terms of exposure has been on the part of his own management rather than Zuffa’s attempts to get him out there. They’ve done it with Liddell, Couture, Franklin but from what I’ve seen they’ve done absolutely nothing in terms of promoting Rampage up to the point of him being named a coach for TUF 7.

    Nothing you’ve said above is supported by any evidence. Its pure conjecture based on your hate. Do you really think UFC was unprepared for Rampage to beat Chuck? Rampage was the last guy to dismantle Chuck in convincing fashion. You don’t sign guys to long-term contracts for them to lose.

    And since you didn’t provide any examples of how Chuck was promoted over Rampage, I’ll speculate. Most of this so-call “exposure” you’re talking about amounts to all those Xience commercials that everyone saw. Now we all know what’s going on with Xience so this isn’t an option for Rampage. UFC just bought on Harley Davidson and some other sponsors so it will be interesting to see if Rampage gets any endorsments deals.

    And nice trolling effort on switching gears and saying that all the exposure that Rampage supposidely wasn’t getting should be credited to Rampage’s management team and not Zuffa. The correct answer is we don’t know.

    And why did you say Liddell put Rampage over? Last I checked, even though MMA is pretty similar to pro wrestling in quite a few ways, it isn’t fake. I don’t think Liddell did “the job”.

    I’m not saying that Liddell threw the fight, but Rampage’s newfound fame is predecated on the fact that he beat UFC poster boy Chuck. This was the same with Silva vs. Sakuraba. Silva was not that well known and when he beat Sakuraba, that really put him on the map internationally.

  47. D. Capitated says:

    Do you really think UFC was unprepared for Rampage to beat Chuck?

    It seems increasingly true based on the fact that they’re still relying on Rampage to sell PPVs.

    And since you didn’t provide any examples of how Chuck was promoted over Rampage, I’ll speculate.

    Chuck’s been given PPV fights and pushed back into a #1 contender slot while Rampage is sitting around doing nothing. He won’t do anything until May-June at the earliest. Chuck may very well fight again before that.

    Silva was not that well known and when he beat Sakuraba, that really put him on the map internationally.

    I don’t think you know what you’re talking about, and you’re inventing talking points to make up for it. Silva had fought and lost to Tito Ortiz in a 200 lb title fight, along with making numerous notable PRIDE appearances before the fight with Sakuraba.

  48. It seems increasingly true based on the fact that they’re still relying on Rampage to sell PPVs.

    That doesn’t make any sense. They are relying on Rampage to sell PPVs so that’s proof that they didn’t expect him to be champ? Isn’t that quite the opposite?

    Chuck’s been given PPV fights and pushed back into a #1 contender slot while Rampage is sitting around doing nothing. He won’t do anything until May-June at the earliest. Chuck may very well fight again before that.

    You do know that Rampage was injured right? That’s why he’s been on the shelf.

    I don’t think you know what you’re talking about, and you’re inventing talking points to make up for it. Silva had fought and lost to Tito Ortiz in a 200 lb title fight, along with making numerous notable PRIDE appearances before the fight with Sakuraba.

    Silva has gone on record many times about how this was the most important fight of his career and how it made him an international superstar and also why he didn’t mind fighting Sakuraba two more times. So I guess Wanderlei has no idea what’s he’s talking about.

  49. The Gaijin says:

    He clearly meant to say “relying on Chuck to sell PPV’s”, a typo that a 3 year old could have figured out with about 2 seconds of thought. And YES I do honestly think that they were completely unprepared for Chuck to lose, completely and its been shown time and again by their continued efforts to push Chuck on all of their programming while doing little for Rampage.

    As for the Harley-Davidson ad potential, you must be on crack, do you know who their target demographic is? Trust me, it’s not smack talking, young BLACK men. That sponsorship is clearly in the wheelhouse for someone exactly like Chuck.

    As for me providing you of examples…look at all the interviews Liddell’s been doing – Letterman, Conan etc. he’s the top Xyience guy, whom it’s been shown is a front company for Zuffa (I don’t recall Rampage having a high profile Xyience sponsorship). I don’t see the UFC pushing Rampage to get on tv shows like Entourage or doing any type of media tour (which would have been huge following his win over “poster boy” Chuck) to increase his exposure.

    As for “switching gears”, you provided me with examples that clearly had little to do with the influence of Zuffa getting Rampage any media exposure. So I gave you the explanation that it would appear that this type of exposure is mainly due to him and his management. This is hardly a stretch and definitely not a troll Zuffa-boy.

  50. As for the Harley-Davidson ad potential, you must be on crack, do you know who their target demographic is? Trust me, it’s not smack talking, young BLACK men. That sponsorship is clearly in the wheelhouse for someone exactly like Chuck.

    You would think that young black men aren’t the target audience of Cadillac and yet the Escalade is an icon of hip hop culture. Sometimes advertising is about opening up new markets like Nintendo targetting senior citizens–which also isn’t the traditional videogame audience.

    As for me providing you of examples…look at all the interviews Liddell’s been doing – Letterman, Conan etc. he’s the top Xyience guy, whom it’s been shown is a front company for Zuffa (I don’t recall Rampage having a high profile Xyience sponsorship). I don’t see the UFC pushing Rampage to get on tv shows like Entourage or doing any type of media tour (which would have been huge following his win over “poster boy” Chuck) to increase his exposure.

    I’ve already addressed the Xyience sponsorship deal, but apparently you weren’t paying attention. Xyience is bankrupt and have outstanding payments to fighters. Why would Rampage endorse a dead company?

    The Entourage appearance occured long before Rampage signed with UFC and this was after Iceman during an unprecedented title reign and had built up his popularity after years of success. Rampage just became champion and is getting opportunities that even Chuck didn’t get in his first year.

    At the end of the day, all you got is appearances on “Letterman, Conan etc.” First off, I’d like to know what the “etc” is. Otherwise, a couple of appearances on talk shows is hardly supports the notion that the UFC doesn’t know what to do with Rampage and is under promoting him.

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