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Sunday news review (1/20/08)
By Zach Arnold | January 20, 2008
Yeo Jong-Hoon reports that Choi Hong-Man made his national TV debut as a singer in South Korea. His first single is “Beast and Beauty,” which you can see here.
Oscar De La Hoya will have a retirement tour in 2008. Check out more stories on this topic on the boxing page.
Total MMA’s Iain Liddle was on Ringside Live to recap the UFC 80 event.
Brandt DeLorenzo of MMA Opinion has the following help-wanted ad:
I am offering two paid writing spots for at least two months of MMA writing. Writers must be able to cover both domestic and international MMA topics. I am expecting writers to be able to draw readers and comments on their articles while providing some interesting viewpoints. Writers will also be asked to publicize their newest works on public forums or mailing lists to help bring more readers to the site. Writers are paid with the advertising revenue so any assistance with gaining more advertisers on the site will be rewarded with more paid work!
The contact page is here.
Headlines
- Bloody Elbow: Flurry of announced MMA match-ups for 2008
- MMA Predictions: Dean Lister video interview
- MMA Mania: UFC Fight Night 13 set for Broomfield, Colorado
- Fightlinker: Sean Sherk continues to be a total douche
- Kevin Iole: UFC 80 notes
- Kevin Iole: B.J. Penn not taking new role lightly
- Steve Sievert: B.J. Penn claims elusive lightweight title at UFC 80
- MMA HQ: UFC 80: Rapid Fire recap
- MMA Opinion: I’m calling Dana White’s bluff, again
- AOL Fanhouse: With undercards, UFC beats boxing
- Seattle Post-Intelligencer: Reactions to UFC 80 event
- Fox Sports: Bob Sapp wants a shot at Fedor, too (sounds like a Kazuyoshi Ishii idea)
- The Houston Chronicle: UFC signs major sponsorship deal with Harley Davidson
- The New York Daily News: Don King says blame MSG for setting out-of-this-ring prices
- The Las Vegas Sun: Drugs and claims about drinking split UFC fighters
- The Monterey County Herald (CA): Carmel’s Chris Cope set for combat as MMA fighter
Topics: Boxing, Japan, Media, MMA, South Korea, UFC, UK, Zach Arnold | 68 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
Jesus, that guy can really bust a rhyme.
I thought Lesnar had gotten rid of his unsightly penis tattoo…?
Where did you see this picture Gaijin? I am under the same assumption…
Oh i just happened to see them talking about his Muscle & Fitness cover story. They showed some fake “mma training” pictures and he’s still got the tattoo in those (I assume they’re recent).
I did some research on it, and alot of places have been calling the tattoo removal a bluff or myth. Why anyone would do that, I have no clue. What Brock was thinking when he got that tattoo is even a bigger WTF mate?
Removing a tattoo on someone’s chest would hurt pretty bad. I’m doubting he will ever have it removed, but he could attempt to cover it up with another bigger tattoo that doesn’t feature male genitalia.
Good interview with the IFL’s Mario Sperry at
http://total-mma.com/?p=101
And Sean Sherk keeps digging the hole deeper (from the Las Vegas Sun article, talking about BJ Penn):
““There’s a lot of things the guy does that I don’t have any respect for, including his work ethic and his party lifestyle,” Sherk said. “What kind of representative of this sport is that? We can’t be out there drinking and beating up cops.
“That’s not the kind of guy we want to be associated with the UFC lightweight championship. On top of that, he doesn’t train hard. He’s pudgy. That’s not what this sport is supposed to represent.”
He can’t control what he says in public due to all the RAGE!
BJ Penn started the war of words with Sean Sherk though way back. BJ Penn told Sherk sometime in the summer, “be a man, fight BJ Penn without steroids.” and referred to the interim belt with Stevenson as the “natural title.” Of course Sherk isn’t going to back down from that. Sherk shouldn’t have been going on and on in the media about steroids but I see nothing wrong with Sherk taking shots right back at BJ Penn. The feud is going to translate to PPV buys when they fight. The fans will buy the PPV and cheer for the babyface (BJ Penn) to beat the heel (Sherk).
Sherk right now is playing the role of Floyd Mayweather Jr. They are both criticized for being boring. They are both hated by the fans and confrontational towards their opponents in the build up to the fight. The fans don’t find Sherk exciting so the best way that he could draw money would be to play the heel role like Mayweather does (who also is considered boring). You need guys like that in the American fight game. Only difference is that Sherk isn’t the incumbent champ whereas Mayweather is.
Fabricio Werdum is getting the winner of Nogueira/Sylvia. Either way, I don’t see him winning either fight. We have already seen Nogueira/Werdum, and Sylvia would hurt him on the feet.
This also likely confirms the fact that Arlovski is out of the UFC. Which is a shame, because he really priced himself out of the UFC with his demands compared to what other Heavyweights are getting paid.
However, Zuffa is smart with giving him Jake O’Brien. O’Brien gained no fans by beating Herring. He hasn’t fought in a while. Yet if he beats Arlovski, they can push him heavily after that.
They intentionally kept Arlovski on ice for 11 months to the detriment of the heavyweight division and that’s supposed to be a good thing on Zuffa’s part? Arlovski is actually ranked ahead of Werdum so he would have been great to have in the mix. I don’t feel sorry for Arlovski’s wallet but man, pony up Zuffa and stop being so cheap. Zuffa’s tactics are ruining the heavyweight division. Vera is getting paid like $100,000 just to show. That doesn’t even include the win bonus. And Arlovski as we know is ranked higher than Vera. So if you are going to invest to make sure that Vera stays in your roster, why not Arlovski? Arlovski will likely go to M-1 Global when his contract expires in April now.
Dave2, your bias is showing. You have no freakin clue what amount of money Arlovski is demanding, but Zuffa is being so cheap? For all we know, Arlovski thinks he can get 1.5 mil per fight with EliteXC. We don’t know the truth of the negotiations, but you assume Zuffa is to blame. For shame.
Like I can understand if the EliteXC, Strikeforce or HDNet Fights don’t want to pony up to keep their star talent. They are secondary promotions. It’s out of their reach and they aren’t making money. But Zuffa is supposed to be the major leagues of MMA. If you want to call yourself major league, then it’s important that you try to hold on to your star talent. Big Nog and Sylvia are battling for the belt. Couture is AWOL. Gonzaga just got beat. Arlovski, who beat Werdum, as of right now is the most qualified fighter on the roster to challenge for the interim belt. Zuffa loses credibility when they try to market the UFC as a “major league” sport when they let go one of their prized assets in the heavyweight division because they are too cheap to give the man a raise.
I believe there was word spreading that the UFC had offered Arlovski fights on two separate occasions, and both times he passed them up. Secondly, I forget the exact numbers, but Meltzer a while back discussed the issue. Think about this. Guys like Nogueira & Sylvia are getting in the ballpark of $100,000 to $250,000 a fight. When Arlovski was given a similiar offer, I believe he wanted it doubled.
And Dave2 really shows his ignorance. If Zuffa gives into those demands, it isn’t just paying Arlovski more. If they pay Arlovski $250,000 instead of $125,000 per fight, then every other top Heavyweight will expect the same money. So take an extra $125,000 for 8 fighters. Then expect them to fight 3 times a year. That is an extra $3 Million a year if they decide to no longer be “cheap”. Not to mention the ramifications of future contracts negotiations once it is determined that Zuffa management has no backbone.
I have to give Arlovski credit though. He’s fighting out his contract… unlike some of the other prima donnas out there.
The problem with Arlovski is that he’s become a boring fighter. After the KO from his second fight with Sylvia, he’s become incredible conservative. Werdum,to his credit, has only one boring fight and that’s the fight with… Arlovski.
“Dave2, your bias is showing. You have no freakin clue what amount of money Arlovski is demanding, but Zuffa is being so cheap? For all we know, Arlovski thinks he can get 1.5 mil per fight with EliteXC. We don’t know the truth of the negotiations, but you assume Zuffa is to blame. For shame.”
You have no freaking clue what Arlovski is demanding either. You say he could be asking for something ridiculous like $1.5 mil or whatever but what if he is asking for a raise that is pretty reasonable? Or perhaps maybe the UFC even wants him to take a pay cut even? You don’t know what’s going on. You and other Zuffa apologists on here give the promoters the benefit of the doubt all the time. Even when it comes to fighters who could add a lot to the UFC right now.
“And Dave2 really shows his ignorance. If Zuffa gives into those demands, it isn’t just paying Arlovski more. If they pay Arlovski $250,000 instead of $125,000 per fight, then every other top Heavyweight will expect the same money. So take an extra $125,000 for 8 fighters. Then expect them to fight 3 times a year. That is an extra $3 Million a year if they decide to no longer be “cheap”. Not to mention the ramifications of future contracts negotiations once it is determined that Zuffa management has no backbone.”
Arlovski made $140,000 ($50,000 win bonus included) at UFC 66. Big Nog and Tim Sylvia made $100,000 to fight, $100,000 to win in their last fights. To suggest that Arlovski is asking for $250,000 is just speculation, nothing more. But even if Arlovski is going to get that raise, what’s wrong with giving Big Tim and Big Nog a raises too? Who else in the Heavyweight division deserves a raise more than Big Nog and Big Tim? These guys are “IT” for the heavyweight division now with Couture AWOL, Fedor not coming, Barnett not coming, Cro Cop losing 2 in a row, etc. Is Zuffa supposed to be a “major league” org or what?
“You have no freaking clue what Arlovski is demanding either. You say he could be asking for something ridiculous like $1.5 mil or whatever but what if he is asking for a raise that is pretty reasonable? Or perhaps maybe the UFC even wants him to take a pay cut even? You don’t know what’s going on. You and other Zuffa apologists on here give the promoters the benefit of the doubt all the time. Even when it comes to fighters who could add a lot to the UFC right now.”
I never said I know what Arlovski is demanding. I never said he should sign for whatever Zuffa is offering. I never blamed him for holding out for more money. In fact, I have many times commended Arlovski for handling himself with class even while holding out for more money.
All I pointed out was that we don’t know the nature of the negotiation, and therefore you shouldn’t be pinning the blame on Zuffa unless you have good reason. You twist that into offering reasons to blame Zuffa, and therefore I’m a Zuffa apologist because I don’t look for reasons to point fingers.
You’re a pathetic pile of waste, and you’re polluting this board with the scum you spew.
Tone it down a little, please.
“I never said I know what Arlovski is demanding. I never said he should sign for whatever Zuffa is offering. I never blamed him for holding out for more money. In fact, I have many times commended Arlovski for handling himself with class even while holding out for more money.
All I pointed out was that we don’t know the nature of the negotiation, and therefore you shouldn’t be pinning the blame on Zuffa unless you have good reason. You twist that into offering reasons to blame Zuffa, and therefore I’m a Zuffa apologist because I don’t look for reasons to point fingers.”
It comes down to this. We don’t know what is being asked or offered in the negotiation process. But Arlovski right now is a very important asset to the heavyweight division. Nogueira and Sylvia are fighting for the belt but Fedor didn’t sign, Couture is AWOL, Gonzaga recently lost, Cro Cop lost twice in a row, Kongo needs a ground game, Werdum beat Gonzaga but lost to Arlovski. The division is very vulnerable right now and having Arlovski around right now is very important. If the UFC wants to maintain their integrity as “major league”, if they really want to do what is “good for the sport” and make the sport grow, they have to fix this mess that is the heavyweight division.
When Arlovski fights O’Brien and takes off in April to a promotion like M-1 Global that WILL pay him what he’s worth, the UFC will be letting go a legitimate heavyweight contender. I’ve already went through the pecking order and it doesn’t look good. If you feel that the fans are going to buy into the UFC no matter what, with their stars leaving the promotion for more money elsewhere, be my guest. More watered down cards will result in less PPV buys. As a fan does this not concern you?
I know you and I don’t see eye-to-eye when it comes to fighter pay for the lower to midcard. Fair enough, the UFC won’t pay guys more than the market dictates. But when it comes to top-level talent, you have to do what you have to do to keep your stars to maintain the integrity of your division. Because if the UFC isn’t willing to pay up, stars, like Arlovski, will leave. It’s as simple as that. Things aren’t going to be easy for Zuffa so a long as they don’t have a real monopoly. Zuffa can’t take things for granted now. If they want to claim to have the best fighters in the world, they need to lay down competitive wages.
“You’re a pathetic pile of waste, and you’re polluting this board with the scum you spew.”
Yes, it would be much better if the whole board agreed with everything Pro-Zuffa and everyone nodded their heads. If telling it like it is, pointing out Zuffa bias, hurts your feelings so be it. Don’t pretend to be high and mighty when you and certain other Zuffa apologists speak condescendingly to everyone (ie. D.Capitated, The Gaijin, Ultimo Santa, etc.) who happens to look at things from a perspective other than a pro-zuffa one. I’ve seen it happen and you speak that way to me so that’s why I return the favor.
“I believe there was word spreading that the UFC had offered Arlovski fights on two separate occasions, and both times he passed them up.”
Yet another *fake* rumour made up by you to support your argument. Dana basically went stated “we have ideas for Arlovski” (paraphrasing) during a presser in a pretty thinly veiled way of say “we’re fucking him over and holding him until the 11th hour before we give him one last undercard fight”.
There has NOT ONCE been this so called “rumour” that Arlovski was offered fights and turned them down until you attempted to float that tripe.
If you feel that the fans are going to buy into the UFC no matter what, with their stars leaving the promotion for more money elsewhere, be my guest. More watered down cards will result in less PPV buys. As a fan does this not concern you?
This is the only statement that really matters. As best I can tell from prior arguments, we should be cool with Tim Sylvia/Justin Eilers for the UFC Heavyweight Title because, hey, Dana White has to make his money too. Or something.
It’s absurd for Werdum to get Gonzage after losing to Arlovski and now apparently being next in line for a title shot, while Arlovski gets demoted. No one can tell me that’s “good for the sport”.
Another absurd fight is Ortiz vs Machida. This match-up is sheer cynicsm from the UFC. From a sports perspective, it makes no sense. They are just protecting Liddell from being dismantled by Machida.
Zach, if you want to ban me, go for it. You’ve let the level of discussion on this board deteriorate for a while. Even Sherdog doesn’t put up with this level of anti-Zuffa bias, not for long. At least I’m being forthright with my mudslinging, rather than hiding it behind a curtain of concern for the health of the sport.
“When Arlovski fights O’Brien and takes off in April to a promotion like M-1 Global that WILL pay him what he’s worth, the UFC will be letting go a legitimate heavyweight contender. I’ve already went through the pecking order and it doesn’t look good. If you feel that the fans are going to buy into the UFC no matter what, with their stars leaving the promotion for more money elsewhere, be my guest. More watered down cards will result in less PPV buys. As a fan does this not concern you?”
Once again, you ASSUME that
a) Arlovski is worth more TO THE UFC than the UFC is offering,
b) M-1 Global or EliteXC or someone else will offer more than the UFC, and
c) Arlovski is going somewhere else, without question.
If you cannot argue against Zuffa without making all sorts of assumptions about them and their business without any sort of hard facts, why should I not call you out for the troll you act like?
You seem to think that the UFC is some sort of invincible goliath that can pay their fighters whatever their fighters want, and that somehow that will benefit the sport. How, exactly? If anything, the closest comparison to the way the UFC acts is like a mid-market baseball team.
The UFC benefits the sport of MMA by SURVIVING and GROWING. WFA outbid the UFC for Quinton Jackson, is WFA benefitting the sport now? Bodog offered big contracts to several fighters, contracts they were later unable to support. If EliteXC pays big money for Arlovski then two years from now the company goes under, how does that benefit MMA? What about if M-1 does the same thing?
Fighters like Arlovski are worth more to the UFC’s competitors than they are to the UFC. He has plenty of name recognition and will be a major player in EliteXC or M-1’s HW division. His existence there will bring attention to those promotions, attention that is incredibly valuable with the amount of risk those promotions have right now. Arlovski’s presence doesn’t bring attention to the UFC, because the fans of Arlovski are fans because they watch the UFC. Essentially, overpaying Arlovski is a good way to get the attention of UFC fans.
M-1 and EliteXC can do this for ANY major fighter. However, they can’t do it for many fighters, I’d expect not more than 3 or 4 fighters apiece; beyond that they get diminishing returns and there is no reason to overpay the fighters.
The only way the UFC can prevent this is by overpaying EVERY SINGLE FIGHTER ON THEIR ROSTER. That would cripple the UFC’s growth, growth that will greatly benefit MMA and MMA fighters in the future.
Arlovski is probably going to move on, and get paid well, and good for him. The UFC will survive by doing what they’ve been doing for years: building stars from scratch.
Hell, if you want to bitch about the UFC’s business proposals (I know you want to, your Zuffa hate is almost tangible), there is plenty of material with how they market their non-english-speaking fighters, how they’ve handled the expansion in Europe, how they’ve handled the expansion of their company. Anything would be better than your reactionary attitudes to basic business dealings.
Yet another *fake* rumour made up by you to support your argument.
http://www.mmafightline.com/news/2008/115/ufc_313603.shtml
Reported by Loretta Hunt. I’m sure you’ll probably assert that she’s lying too.
As best I can tell from prior arguments, we should be cool with Tim Sylvia/Justin Eilers for the UFC Heavyweight Title because, hey, Dana White has to make his money too.
Gonzaga, Werdum, Nogueira, Vera, Cro Cop, Herring, Congo, Lesnar, etc. 6 of the 10 heavyweights are in the UFC, excluding Arlovski and Couture. Yeah the UFC has no good heavyweights left. Why let the truth get in the way of your hatred of the UFC?
All I asked was for the rhetoric of the one line highlighted to be toned down a little bit.
I never once stated that any of your arguments should be censored. If you’re disappointed by the items written by commenters on the site, then I’m sorry.
Well Fightlinker suggested that Ortiz vs Machida was booked so that Zuffa can have Machida make Ortiz look like crap (win or lose) before his contract expires. That is Ortiz’s last fight on his contract so that makes sense.
I understand the concern from the other side about the possibility that guys above Arlovski in the HW ladder might be upset if Arlovski ends up making more than them. Currently Arlovski makes 90G/50G while Nogueira and Sylvia make 100G/100G. If Arlovski is bumped up to say 150G/100G (purely hypothetical), Big Nog will probably want 150G/100G at the very least or more. But then again, Cro Cop is making 350G flat and you don’t see the other HWs aside from Couture complaining (even though Couture makes a hell of a lot more than Cro Cop if you take into account PPV + bonuses).
Though even if say Arlovski goes to 150/100 and raises some eyebrows, only Big Nog and Tim Sylvia at this point would have a case. Arlovski is #3 in the UFC HW division right now though. That is if you don’t include Randy and of course Fedor and Barnett are not in the UFC. Werdum, Gonzaga, Kongo, Cro Cop, Vera, etc. don’t have a case to complain against a Arlovski pay raise.
“http://www.mmafightline.com/news/2008/115/ufc_313603.shtml
Reported by Loretta Hunt. I’m sure you’ll probably assert that she’s lying too.”
Maybe you might want to read your source material before you try to smugly contradict someone you f#cking genuis.
Please point out to me where in that article it says he turned down the two fights he was offered. It says it’s rumoured he was offered two fights and that both times the OTHER FIGHTER pulled out (not to mention they can’t even produce the names of the fighters).
We’ve never seen 45 try to pass off his own “rumours” in order to bolster his points…*rolls eyes*
You really showed me buddy! Better luck next time 😉
“All I asked was for the rhetoric of the one line highlighted to be toned down a little bit.”
Fair enough, and I apologize for that comment.
“I never once stated that any of your arguments should be censored. If you’re disappointed by the items written by commenters on the site, then I’m sorry.”
At some point you might be advised to moderate these forums more heavily. I’m not just talking about the aimless anti-Zuffa sentiment, although Zuffa is the most obvious target. One unpleasant side effect of MMA’s growth is that some of the more enjoyable forums seem to be getting uglier and uglier.
“Gonzaga, Werdum, Nogueira, Vera, Cro Cop, Herring, Congo, Lesnar, etc. 6 of the 10 heavyweights are in the UFC, excluding Arlovski and Couture. Yeah the UFC has no good heavyweights left. Why let the truth get in the way of your hatred of the UFC?”
And let’s use our brains and see who can legitimately be put into a title situation.
Gonzaga – People are already crapping all over him and calling him a “one-hit wonder”. He’s lost his last two fights (one title fight and one fight that apparently was for a #1 contender’s shot)
Werdum – basically gets this title shot by default. People have been crapping all over him and calling him a horrid fighter who’d have no shot at winning against top level opponents (he was given a snow balls chance in hell vs. Gonzaga by everyone and their dog)
Cro Cop, Herring & Kongo – do I even need to talk about them? It’s funny that people pile on how terrible these guys are and how much they were “overrated” (save for Kongo), but fall all over themselves to use their name to make a case for how good the HW division is right now.
Lesnar – HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA. That’s high comedy. Let’s toss Frank Mir’s name in here too just for an extra chuckle.
So we’re basically left with Nog and Sylvia and they are about to engage in a 5 round snoozer. So after that whats left? I think his comments have a lot less to do with “UFC hatred” and a lot more to do with not looking at picture with your rose coloured glasses on.
Michaelthebox, there’s nothing wrong with building stars from scratch. That model worked wonders for the UFC when they were the smaller org and PRIDE was bigger and poaching talent from the UFC and everywhere else. But the UFC is top dog now. They generate over $200m in revenue a year and they have an estimated pre-tax profit margin of 20% this year, down from 40% last year but still very impressive compared to the average corporation. Zuffa is not hurting for cash so why not spend the cash to keep your star talent and maintain the competitive health of the heavyweight class?
Creating stars is important (hence why I suggested in the past that fighters on the low to middle should be paid more so the fighters could train full-time and develop into better fighters but that’s another topic). But with Zuffa’s position, there is no reason why they should give up on stars that have become “too big” They’re the “major league” and have major league resources. Arlovski is an asset to the current ailing state of the heavyweight division. He beat Werdum, he deserves that shot.
If we’re talking about a smaller promotion, then yes, sometimes you have to let your big stars go when they outgrow your promotion. That’s what IFL doesn’t get and they blew the whole Rothwell and Whitehead fiasco and made themselves look stupid. But Zuffa is not a small promotion.
So by your definition, only fighters that can be put in contention right now are worthy to be count as a legitimate heavyweight?
Fighters NEVER improve, right? Why keep fighting then? Why even train? Let’s just keep pitting Sylvia VS Nogueira because it’s inconceivable that Congo, Lesnar, Mir, Vera can get better and challenge for the belt. Lets just count out Couture after he was KOed by Liddell. Lets just count out Rampage after he was KOed by Silvia. Lets count out GSP after he got KOed by Serra. *roll eyes*
They are not a small promotion, but you’re fooling yourself if you think they’re immune to failure. Again, as I pointed out, this isn’t one fighter, Arlovski. Any fighter in the UFC with any sort of name value at all is probably worth more to competing organizations than to the UFC. The only way to avoid other organizations managing to poach some of their fighters is to overpay EVERY SINGLE FIGHTER.
Another thing to note, is there are specific fighters in the UFC who are worth A LOT MORE to other promotions than they are to the UFC. Tito Ortiz is one good example. For EliteXC, Tito can bring insane amounts of attention that they don’t have, while beating up on wimpy opposition (Tito/Shamrock 4, anybody?) In the UFC, they basically have to protect him from running into the rest of the division. Arlovski is another such fighter; he can bring enormous amounts of attention to the UFC’s opposition. In the UFC, he’s not much use anytime Sylvia is champ, and he has been very boring in recent fights, they don’t want to be stuck overpaying him if he keeps on being boring.
Hell, I’d love to have Arlovski stay in the UFC. But it all depends on what he wants in order to stay. You don’t know what he wants, and you don’t know what Zuffa is offering. Without that, there is no basis for assessing the deal. Every fighter has a value, even to the biggest promotion in the world.
Arlovski will draw a big-star reaction in Elite XC, but XC will benefit entirely in that one-sided match-up should it happen. Arlovski would largely, in my opinion, not benefit from it.
The only other option is K-1, and K-1 is not going to pay what UFC is going to pay.
Zach: if EliteXC pays Arlovski twice what he’d make in the UFC, he benefits from it plenty. M-1 is another possibility, they might pay him a lot and a win over Fedor would do wonders for Arlovski.
It also depends on what he wants with his career. If he doesn’t think he can reach the top of the UFC again, he’s better suited to go for the big payday. Same deal if he just wants to get rich then get out and lounge around the pool with his uber-babe girlfriend.
Michael: You think this is bad? I normally just get the “UR dum LOLZ” response on my site. It could be worse. I actually think of Fight Opinion as one of the more conservatively commented blog sites.
As for the anti-Zuffa bias, it’s what the UFC is going to get for touting themselves as the biggest thing in MMA. With the fame comes the trash talk. It happens everywhere and you know what, it’s good for the sport. It there was nobody to say “Zuffa/UFC sucks!” when Dana White pats Joe Silva on the back for putting together a bland fight card, the organization would fall into itself and we would be without any big PPV events aside from the crazy NYE Japanese stuff. Zuffa/UFC needs the criticism as feedback. It’s their choice if they want to apply it or not and they can basically choose their own fate because of it. Its certainly one thing if someone says “Dana White sucks because he is bald ROFL” but if someone is “anti-Zuffa” because they think the UFC isn’t paying fighters enough, it’s a great idea to properly voice that concern!
Brandt: I don’t mind criticism of Zuffa, as long as there is rational arguments FOR the criticism.
But thats a far cry from the bias that guys like Dave2 show. How can you blame a company for not offering a guy enough money if you don’t even know what was offered? Thats what he’s doing.
“You’re a pathetic pile of waste, and you’re polluting this board with the scum you spew.”
LOL – sand in the vagina?
“So by your definition, only fighters that can be put in contention right now are worthy to be count as a legitimate heavyweight?”
Again please tell me which of these guys you think could be sold in a legitimate title fight in the NEAR future.
No doubt guys get better…try to pay attention – that wasn’t my argument at all. But right now the entire HW division is in disarray and there’s very few fights that present any intrigue and that Joe Silva could try to present to the public as something worth paying for. The division needs a lot of “sorting out” among the guys who aren’t Nog, Sylvia and Werdum.
Lest we forget however that you’re one of the people that can barely hide your enthusiasm to trumpet how the likes of Herring and Cro Cop are so overrated and have been exposed, but then happily use them when trying to say how strong the division is. And while Lesnar, Mir, Vera and Kongo *could* improve and challenge for the belt its far from certain.
http://mrsunshinevegas.wordpress.com/2008/01/15/the-fight-networks-loretta-hunt-talks-ufc-80-couture/
She talks about Arlovski at 5:20 in.
““I believe there was word spreading that the UFC had offered Arlovski fights on two separate occasions, and both times he passed them up.”
I don’t believe that for a second. It doesn’t fit the M.O. of the freeze-out when there’s only one fight left on the contract.
I cant wait to see Penn beat Sherk. I dont think sherk is one to talk about someone not being a good representive of the sport.
Even if Sherk manages to take Penn down I still think Penn can make him tap from the bottom.
People defending the UFC’s heavyweight division are out of their minds. Gaijin hits all the marks in his criticism of it. The world’s 2 best heavyweights will not fight in the UFC probably ever (again). More than half of the top 25 isn’t under contract. The UFC has to push guys like Hardonk and McCully as legitimate contenders even though they’re clearly subpar talent. If Arlovski leaves, they should seriously consider scuttling the whole thing just as they have the super heavyweights. Who the hell wants to see McCully/Herring? Anyone?
Lest we forget however that you’re one of the people that can barely hide your enthusiasm to trumpet how the likes of Herring and Cro Cop are so overrated and have been exposed, but then happily use them when trying to say how strong the division is. And while Lesnar, Mir, Vera and Kongo *could* improve and challenge for the belt its far from certain.
A fighter being OVERRATED as in CroCop being ranked #2,#3, and getting beat by unranked fighters does not mean he’s not a legitimate heavyweight. A big difference there. Herring was never overrated. He fought a fighter who is better than people believed if not just a little boring. That’s why they fight right? If MMA math could predict results, why even fight?
The UFC may be the “NFL” of MMA, but it does not necessarily mean that the UFC is the NFL in terms of revenue. Why is the UFC successful? They know how to run that as a business. They have a model that’s different than boxing. Think WWE crossed with boxing. They have to pay fighters, marketing, and building their name brand. Most people criticize them for not paying a huge part of the revenue to fighters. Yet, they failed to credit the UFC blowing up MMA through the very same business model they are employing: growing the business in places that haven’t adopted the sport and expanding their brand while not overpaying. Are they a somewhat evil corporation? Sure, what corporation isn’t evil?
The UFC has revenues of 200 million total in 2007. That is minuscule in terms of revenue when the NFL and other leagues sport has multi-billion dollar TV contracts. As a business, the UFC has to pick and choose which fighters they keep and which ones they let go. When you have a finite amount of money, you’ve gotta do that. The top draws in Strikeforce, Cung Le and Shamrock makes 50k to 100k. Arlovski makes 90k + 50k right now before any potential contract negotiation. If the UFC doesn’t try to keep every single legitimate heavyweight then they must be evil and be disrespecting their fighters, right? With competition in the sport, some of the fighters are going to be leaving. You can’t keep every single fighter unless you’re willing to outbid every single organization. I’m sure Dana White is a pompous ass, but he’s not stupid.
Michael: You think this is bad? I normally just get the “UR dum LOLZ” response on my site. It could be worse. I actually think of Fight Opinion as one of the more conservatively commented blog sites.
I understand what Michaelthebox is talking about. I’ll give you a quick recap:
It’s unfortunate that their are two camps here. UFC haters and defenders. I’ve been here awhile and it was never my intention to become a UFC defender (check my early posts). However, after seeing some of the usual posters on here attacking 45 Huddle as a shill and his character because of his enthusiasm for the UFC, I thought it’s blatantly ridiculous and single-minded. Every time 45 Huddle posts, they call him Kevin Iole or a UFC paid poster. I have no idea where their hatred of the UFC come from. Hate the UFC, not the poster! It’s like hate by association!
Yeah, it’s unfortunate that we end up having to take sides. I’d love to criticize Dana White and his handling of the HBO/CBS deal but I’m too busy defending myself from being called a shill and an illiterate.
Herring was never overrated.
Herring was violently overrated, and as someone who fed into the hype, I can honestly tell you that. The best win he’s had in the last few years was against Gan McGee, and take that away and the opposition is pretty lousy. In the last five years he lost to O’Brien, Greco, Noguiera twice, and Cro Cop. He beat Gary Goodridge, Brad Imes, Takahashi, Yokoi, Giant Silva, Yamamoto, and, of course, McGee. Not exactly a murderers row. He barely belongs in the top 30 right now.
LOL. I remember when Herring was supposed to come into the UFC to expose the ‘weak UFC HW division’ where he would quickly rise to become the #2 UFC HW immediately behind Mirko.
All I could think about was how people could possibly think a guy who could barely beat a bloated 300+lb Gan McGee, an untalented oaf Giant Silva, and who nearly got KO’ed by Gary Goodridge in his last fight was going to be some kind of world-beater.
Heath Herring never beat the top competition that was put in front of him. So he is over-rated. Considering Herring’s lack of ability, I’m surprised the UFC pays him a minimum of $70,000 a fight (just to show). Would Herring even be able to make that kind of money in Japan or something? It really shocked me that he was being paid that much in the UFC.
Mike: The UFC isn’t as strapped for cash as you’d think. The NHL brings in about $2 billion in revenue a year (at least they did in 2004, maybe more now or maybe less because of the lockout). The UFC brings in over $200 million. So that means the UFC is about 1/10th the size of the NHL. Meaning the UFC is about the size of three mid-sized NHL hockey teams most likely. The bare minimum salary in the NHL is $450,000 USD. Keep in mind that the NHL is #4 in America and that a good chunk of that $2 billion probably comes from Canadian markets (not just live gate revenues from the six Canadian teams but also TV deals. In Canada, they have a lot more eyeballs per capita watching hockey). It’s popularity lags behind the NFL, MLB and NBA in America. So basically the NHL isn’t really that big in America but the minimum salary is still $450,000 USD.
But yet The bare minimum salary in the UFC? $3,000 USD to show, $3,000 USD to win. Assuming a fighter gets 3 fights a year, that’s $9,000 to $18,000 USD a year. Even when taking account the size difference (NHL being 10x larger), that is pathetic. It costs a lot to train, travel, pay your agent, etc. There are a lot of expenses that come out of a fighter’s pocket in the fight game. Also note that the NHL teams (like any other major sports league) cover flight and hotel expenses, training session expenses, medical, etc. That stuff is very expensive. It’s not cheap to run an mma promotion but it’s not cheap for a sports league and it’s 30 teams to operate either.
So I don’t buy this idea that Zuffa has to be cheap (not just with the low to mid-level fighters but also with certain guys on the top) in order to “survive”.
Herring was never overrated. I have always rated him as average which is what he is.
I’m surprised we’re back to arguing pay again. Up and comers would love to fight for the UFC at $3000 for the exposure because they’re an unknown quantity. It’s an opportunity to show the UFC what they’re capable of. If they can’t hang, they’re cut. If they can, they will eventually move up in pay. Moreover, they will get sponsors.
But it seems like every 3 weeks, we’re back to this same topic, over and over again like a broken record. Lets compare MMA with the big 4 national sports. Lets compare the up and comer fighters with the established NHL, NBA, NFL players. Oh my God, what horrible disparity in pay! Nice try, Dave2, I won’t be sucked into this debate again. It’s amazing how you can take one subject and change it into something that is so far off the original topic it’s not even funny.
The UFC should do charity and pay up and coming unestablished fighters 20k so they can quit their job and train full time. All up and comer actors should be paid a fair wage so they no longer have to wait tables to make ends meet. Nobody in the world should have to work crap jobs at first, because everyone deserves to work 100k jobs right away. The world doesn’t work that way, does it?
Hasn’t most of the discussion in this thread been about pay?
Anywho, the UFC is supposed to be “major league” right? So what kind of “major league” has a bunch of bums who do the MMA thing as their side job? That sounds like Arena Football League to me. A “major league” is supposed to have real pro athletes who train full-time. It’s the same with the guys higher up in the payscale to a certain extent. Is the UFC supposed to have all the best fighters in the world or what? If not, then why does Dana say that all the best fighters are in the UFC?