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Monday media review: More reaction to couture’s departure from UFC
By Zach Arnold | October 15, 2007
File this under the category of ‘hideous’ – an ex-boxer wants to apply sanctioning body-style politics to book Couture vs. Fedor.
Daiki Kameda has been suspended for a year by the JBC (Japan Boxing Commission). This news completely overshadowed the World Victory Road Inc. announcement in the Japanese press.
Your image of the day: The WVR press conference in Tokyo. Today’s press conference at Tokyo’s Prince Hotel was held for the new World Victory Japan Inc. company. Coverage on this story at MMA Weekly and Sherdog. More thoughts at Bloody Elbow.
Bill Mahood tests positive for steroids. In other Strikeforce news, the organization is planning a new tournament.
Dave Meltzer tries to sort out the issues in the wake of Randy Couture’s departure from UFC. Pramit Mohapatra Summarizes the crazy week that was in MMA. Pramit will be writing a weekly MMA column soon for Sports Illustrated. Kevin Iole did a radio interview with Steve Cofield, talking about how Dana White handled last week’s situation with Couture leaving UFC.
Dan Henderson shares his thoughts on the prospects of fighting Tito Ortiz. Steve has a full article in today’s Houston Chronicle with more of Henderson’s comments. Meanwhile, Tim Sylvia has a lot at stake this coming weekend at UFC 77. It’s also a second chance for Josh Burkman.
Analyzing the fallout of M-1, Fedor, and Couture’s recent moves. Plus, what is the UFC’s future as a television property going to be? Is ESPN TV in their near future?
Chuck Norris makes a sales pitch to concerned MMA fans to watch his World Combat League promotion.
Here’s an interview with Ken Shamrock. Plus, an interview with Bas Rutten. Sam Caplan interviewed Jay Larkin of the IFL.
Here’s an article talking about Mke Costa’s Gracie Barra Cove gym in Copperas Cove, Texas.
Jameel McCline has filed a protest. McCline also apparently passed his NYSAC-administered drug test.
Topics: Boxing, Japan, Media, MMA, StrikeForce, UFC, Zach Arnold | 26 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
Glad to see that you are not dead Zach. Also, I wonder if that disgraced boxer might have a job in MMA lined up? It seems he has the ground-and-pound figured out as well as the slams. Why in the world would Bill “Loser” Mahood take steroids? Dumb move on his part.
Zach, Henderson mentioned that they lost money on the event in Ireland. The Odyssey Arena sold out, and if i remember correctly Spike got decent ratings out of the delayed broadcast. None of their biggest paid stars fought on that card either. So what happened that they lost significant money? Does it really cost that much to run an event?
And i’m not usually into pimping sherdog but Joe Hall has a really good article up on the development and progression of mma fighters: http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles.asp?n_id=9499
“Zach, Henderson mentioned that they lost money on the event in Ireland. The Odyssey Arena sold out, and if i remember correctly Spike got decent ratings out of the delayed broadcast.”
This was the PPV that they ran live. I watched it at a sports bar at noon PST.
Henderson’s comments were puzzling. PPV revenue seems to be up and he cards did well I thought.
I’m glad that the World Victory Road is banning kneebars. They are far too dangerous to be used in MMA. :p
http://www.boxingscene.com/mma/?m=show&id=828
“Last weekend, the promotion ran their UFC 72 event at the Odyssey Arena in Belfast, Ireland, claiming 7,850 fans in attendance. The show was not a sell-out and there were multiple media reports (from Loretta Hunt of The Fight Network and Neil Davidson of The Canadian Press) stating that UFC had to paper the arena in order to fill up the seats. ”
Factor in the PPV at an unusual time, shipping all their equipment and staff over and the fact that the UK is an expensive place to do business in, I’m not surprised they lost money.
Interesting Hendo saying they still pay less than PRIDE.
Lost money in Ireland yes, but he said three bad shows.
I’m noticing a few people (MMAWeekly notably) mentioning Shigeru Saeki as if he’s part of this World Victory Road thing because he’s hinting that there’s going to be a NYE event at Saitama Super Arena, but there were rumours ( http://d.hatena.ne.jp/gryphonjapan/20070901/p1 ) that he was chasing a TV deal for DEEP to put on his own big show, albeit out of the country.
Has there been any indication that Saeki has anything to do with World Victory Road?
There’s been nothing substantial that suggests Saeki has anything to do with WVR.
Crawford Grimsley doesn’t have $3 million dollars. No one needs worry until the WBC or IBF steps into the game. Besides, there’s already a boxing organization giving out MMA titles (NABC).
The blog entry about UFC’s future as a television property must not have looked very hard at NASCAR’s ratings recently. They’ve been very mediocre. ESPN’s production has been horrible also.
“This was the PPV that they ran live. I watched it at a sports bar at noon PST.”
well shut my mouth…
My guess is that UFC 69 (Shootout), UFC 72 (Ireland), and UFC 73 (Stacked, best card EVAR!!!) were real stinkers in terms of $$ made.
I am not shocked if UFC 72 lost money. Heck, I would not be shocked if UFC 70 lost money either. The UFC spent over $1 Million on advertising those events. They saw those events as a way to penetrate the UK Market for long term growth.
That is why you have to laugh when a guy like Randy Couture all of a sudden become a Finance Major and thinks the UFC is hiding all of these funds.
They are losing money on every single WEC event. They likely took out long-term debt in order to purchase Pride. They have lost money on at least 3 shows this year. And they have paid out over $15 Million to fighters and it will likely be way over $20 Million by the time the end of the year is over.
And MMA fighters have to make a crucial decision at this point in the sport. Do they want the most money possible? Or do they want to have the sport grow to it’s greatest potential?
EXAMPLE A – Fighters get the most money possible. I’m talking about $10 Million paydays for the very best fighters with fantastic PPV buyrates. This is the boxing model. Basically, a promoter puts on an event and gives nothing back to the sport. The fight could be fantastic, but it does nothing for the future.
EXAMPLE B – Fighters are still well paid. I’m talking about $1.5 Million to $4 Million per fight for the top level guys, and more of them. The difference in money goes to the undercard fighters and to helping keep the sport as whole as possible. It is about spreading the wealth and promoting to the max.
In all honesty, I don’t think that Zuffa is holding back money from these fighters. There is no reason for The Fertitta’s to be making much of a profit on Zuffa. This is a serious hobby to Frank, as all of his real money comes from the Station Casino Business.
We know that Zuffa lost $40+ starting up the company. We know that Zuffa likely spent $40+ million on Pride FC. We know that they have not made money on every event this year. We can assume they have lost money on the WEC. I would make an assumption of at least $5 Million lost on WEC so far.
Which then poses the question…. Over the last 3 years, how much beyond the $85 Million has Zuffa really made. My guess is that they haven’t even brought home that much once everything has been said and done. Do the math for yourself…..
Saeki’s participation in WVR would immediately be the kiss of death for them as far as Japanese TV is concerned
the bigger news on the Kameda cheating scandal was the indefinite suspension of Daddy Kameda’s second license for his encouragement and proposing to his son to – hit his opponent in the nuts, to elbow his eyes and other nice things which happened to be caught on TBS camera’s for all of Japan to hear
Daddy Kameda has been given the red card so he cant corner his sons anymore – cant say he’ll be missed
Zuffa on a card such as Tito vs Chuck at the end of last year made between 45 and 50 million in PPV revenue… You give away 10 million for all operating expenses and thats still 35 to 40 million net profit. Taxes yada yada yada 20 million. 45 Huddle you really think they are hurting so bad when they make money like that on events and they venture across to the UK to promote their brand-name KNOWING they are gonna take large losses??
I’m fine with your example B of a payscale but right now it appears the UFC is working kinda on a schedule F with their semi-big names earning in the area of $100,000. I’m not saying they have to pay numbers like PBF vs DLH money with DLH pocketing almost 40 million… but come on. If a event is at a bare MINIMUM making 10 million net profit you can at least take care of your guys. I have been saying for a long time there is a big fall coming for ZUFFA and I think we’ll see it soon if they dont steer their ship in a completely different direction.
Not to mention they have sponsors paying them off to hock their goods. Now 45 talk us through the Mickey’s replay!
“Not to mention they have sponsors paying them off to hock their goods. Now 45 talk us through the Mickey’s replay!”
I am questioning this part of your post big time. They don’t have any relatively BIG paying sponsors is my guess.
I’m not saying Sponsorship is a major part of their income but it certainly covers some of the smaller areas of their operating costs.
Oh yah all that money they wasted on PRIDE can be used as a business expenditure and thereby be written off against the money the Fertitta’s make through Station Casinos. I’m not for sure on that but considering how many shady loopholes there are in big business tax law I have a feeling Zuffa really won’t lose that much money from the PRIDE purchase debacle.
To clarify, I’m not sure it can be used as a tax writeoff… But I’d wager they’ll find some way to pull some tax magic with their PRIDE losses and the litigation with Ed Fishman.
how will the JMM affect organizations like SHOOTO?
“Zuffa on a card such as Tito vs Chuck at the end of last year made between 45 and 50 million in PPV revenue… You give away 10 million for all operating expenses and thats still 35 to 40 million net profit. Taxes yada yada yada 20 million.”
They did NOT make 45-50 mio from that fight. Nor did they ever off any of their cards. These numbers are the ppv gross, of which the UFC receives 40%. And it’s from these 40% that they pay taxes, fighter salaries, permanent staff, tv-crews, advertising, rent for the venue etc etc.
Do they make money? Yes. Do they make such exorbitant sums like the one you mentioned? They’d wish.
Based on what I’ve seen, it looks like the vast majority of the debt that Zuffa recently took on was to repay an old package of loans that was coming due. That makes a lot of sense, since UFC was bankrupt when they bought it.
I’d estimate the amount of the rolled over debt at around 250 mil or more.
Compared to the accumulated UFC operating costs that are embodied by that debt, everything else, including the Pride, WEC, and WFA purchases and the poor performance of the UK shows is just a drop in the bucket.
I’m still pretty much certain that UFC is going to focus on north america next year instead of the UK. You have to make money.
The Chronicle Henderson article suggests that the flat fee is a standard provision of the Pride contract.
That means that Cro Cop has probably fighting in UFC under his old Japanese contract. Henderson’s fighting under his Pride contract, Rampage is probably fighting under his WFA contract…
It might actually be true that Randy was the 2nd highest paid fighter fighting on a UFC contract.
Wouldn’t that be ironic.
Uh, sorry, being an idiot.
Crop Cop came to UFC before Pride liquidated.
Cro Cop is not under his old PRIDE contract, he didn’t have a contract with PRIDE, he’s under a 6-fight UFC deal.
Rampage isn’t under his WFA contract either, he’s under a new UFC deal as well.
Saeki’s blog would seem to suggest that he has absolutely nothing to do with WVR. He has some interesting concerns about this new crew. Here’s a full translation courtesy of miscmisc on the kakutougi.info forums.
http://forum.kakutougi.info/showpost.php?p=149738&postcount=30
Saeki and Hiroyuki Kato are at odds with WVR.