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« | Home | »

Tuesday media turmoil: Truths and untruths

By Zach Arnold | July 23, 2007

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If you’re a beta tester of the new Fight Opinion site design, please go check out the test site and contribute feedback if you haven’t already done so. I really need to get moving on the new design and make it as compatible as possible for every browser platform.

Ikuhisa Minowa won his fight today at a show dedicated to his 10th anniversary in the fight game. The show was at Korakuen Hall in Tokyo, drawing 1,078 paid. The headline coming out of the show is that Minowaman’s dream fight is to face Masakatsu Funaki. A New Year’s Eve battle coming?

Sean Sherk has hired doping attorney Howard Jacobs for his appeal with the California State Athletic Commission. If you recognize the name Howard Jacobs, the reason is likely because he was hired by Pawel Nastula when Nastula filed an appeal for his failed drug test with the NSAC. Jacobs and Nastula (who I quoted in the latest CBS Sportsline article) stated that Nastula did not dope, despite an alleged provision in his contract with PRIDE that allowed for doping to occur.

Sam Stout has been pulled from the July 28th ShootBoxing card at Korakuen Hall due to a foot injury suffered in training. Adam Higson will be taking his place on the show.

Speaking of California, I was able to get the data from the CSAC in regards to drug suspensions in Q1 2007 (January 1st ~ March 30th). Here’s the quick breakdown in data – 7 boxing, 8 MMA, 15 total suspensions. 13 were for marijuana, 2 were for hydrocodone. Full steroid testing was not implemented until Q2 of 2007 in the state. In Q2 of CSAC drug testing, there were 17 failures for ‘drugs of abuse’. In other words, the CSAC is regularly catching fighters on ‘drugs of abuse’ at a pretty consistent rate of 15 or higher. With the steroid testing added, the numbers are jumping up. So, let’s do the math – 23 MMA suspensions in all of 2006 in California, 8 in Q1 2007, and 20 or 21 in MMA in Q2 2007. Well over a benchmark of 50, which would average out to a little over 3 suspensions a month in California of MMA fighters.

The topic de jour on Any Given Saturday (the radio show hosted by Luke Thomas was the steroids mess in MMA. Audio of show here. One suggestion I have for Luke if he wants to attract more callers is to set up an 800 or 888 conf. call line (you can get one for a limited time block online for free) and hook it up to the 646 number of BlogTalkRadio. That way, more people can call in because it will be for free. Show e-mail here.

In response to a question/observation Luke made about why fighters take performance-enhancers, I can only state from personal experience in talking with several fighters that the prevailing attitude that exists is pretty libertarian in nature.

In summary from the fighters I talked with off-the-record, if a fighter wants to take a substance, fine, but that won’t determine the ultimate outcome of a fight. If you are a fighter and you know you’re better than your opponent, then the issue of performance-enhancing drugs isn’t a big enough factor to change the outcome of the fight. In other words, the playing field is what it is and you have to deal with it.

Now, I disagree with that attitude. A lot of that disagreement is not so much about moral integrity of sports (I come from a professional wrestling background). However, it’s more or less concern about the health of the fighters and whether or not they are going to drop dead at an early age like so many wrestlers have. You can only cram so many supplements and drugs into your body before your body eventually breaks down.

There will be supporters of fighters or critics of the MMA media who shout about how angry they are because anti-drug columnists are not taking a ‘nuanced’ approach to the story. I don’t see how taking the position I have taken is ‘political’ or ‘populist’ in nature. Is it really selfish of me to want to care about the health of friends in the business? Is it selfish of me to not want to see some of them drop dead before the age of 50 like some of my friends in professional wrestling have? I don’t want to say that professional wrestling fans understand the steroids issue better than their MMA counterparts, but I will say that I think wrestling fans have always been ahead of the curve compared to other sports fans on the issue of drugs because we’ve seen what can happen to wrestlers when you have a massive, outlaw drug culture. Depending on your point of view, you can thank or not thank promoters like Vince McMahon for that.

At the 27:30 mark of his show, Luke starts answering a question from fellow blogger Nate about whether or not Steve Sievert, Zach Arnold, and Kevin Iole are keyboard warriors. First off, I don’t know how anyone could read the Sportsline article and accuse me of trying to incite a riot. If anything, the Sportsline article on Friday had all the heat sucked out of it online when the Josh Gross/Dana White flame war broke out. Furthermore, it wasn’t until three days after the article was published that people online are even talking about the major substantive points raised in the piece. Second, I never called a fighter a coward or used any sort of incendiary language whatsoever. I stuck to the facts and, in conjunction with Tomer Chen and Denny Burkholder, did the proper leg work. I learned a lot about MMA’s drug culture when I wrote the article. It wasn’t set out to be a pure opinion piece.

Which makes Luke’s ranting and raving against me on his radio show to be so bizarre and out-of-character. I’m not sure if he read the article or not. I would hope so. I would hope that he would realize that I’ve been covering MMA and wrestling for a long time, well since the early 90s. Accusing me of calling fighters ‘cowards’ when I didn’t do such a thing is not true, misinformed, and pretty slanderous.

I thought it was really classless on Luke’s part to lump in Josh Gross, myself, Steve Sievert, and Kevin Iole together. Each column by each writer had a different message and different talking points. To lump the writers together and make the slanderous statement twice that we all called fighters ‘cowards’ for taking drugs is irresponsible. Furthermore, this “you’re not a professional athlete” garbage that he was spewing against the writers who wrote MMA drug articles is the same kind of bull%&^% that a pro-wrestler spews every time a writer criticizes one of their matches. “You’ve never been in the ring before!” or “You’ve never taken a bump in your life!”

What disappoints me personally is that if people truly believed that the message coming out of the CBS Sportsline article is that I’m labeling fighters as horrible people on a personal level, that’s the wrong message. I wrote an article based on the actions of fighters and the facts at hand. Everything in the piece was factually scrutinized and accurate. Denny Burkholder did a tremendous job in interviewing several people for quotes. Everything was also on-the-record. I refused from the on-set to quote anonymous sources or to write off-the-record material.

By the way, Luke, I’ve never had a problem ever meeting a writing deadline in my life. Just thought that you should know that. Oh, and one other thing – I did not receive financial payment for the Sportsline article.

Using Luke’s logic, I shouldn’t have been angry or disgusted about the PRIDE yakuza scandal or the K-1 corporate tax evasion scandal because, hey, those events didn’t impact my daily life. Why are you spending years writing about those incidents and trying to ‘trump up’ a scandal? Nothing to see here, look away…

One other item… Luke made a strange analogy on his radio show, comparing the steroid controversy in MMA to illegal immigration. He repeated a joke that a comedian said about how pathetic you have to be if your job security is threatened by a rag-tag person who just crossed the border to get to the States with no possessions. I have no idea what point he was trying to make with the analogy. Too bad he didn’t bring up a tangential point about the border, with that point being how easy it is to get horse steroids down in Tijuana if athletes want them and cross back into the States with relatively little scrutiny.

The most ironic thing about Luke’s hour-long diatribe against the ‘MMA media’ is that he accuses the MMA media of sensationalism and (fake) outrage, all while slandering me (accusing me of calling fighters cowards when I did not) and getting emotional about what writers have written about. This meme of “the MMA media is getting emotional about steroids” needs to be shot down quickly. It’s also bush-league to trash Steve Sievert, who happened to be the individual that exposed the fact that UFC did not have drug testing at their UFC 69 and UFC 70 events. I’m embarrassed by the total closing-of-ranks that I’m seeing in certain MMA blogging circles because it’s exactly the same kind of mentality that I see on pro-wrestling sites & message boards when it comes to the drug culture in the respective industries.

Onto today’s headlines.

  1. Dave Doyle: Five rounds – steroids fallout and more
  2. Mark Madden: Let ’em die
  3. Jake Rossen: So, about those steroids…
  4. Sam Caplan: 5 Oz. of Pain Feature – The UFC on ESPN
  5. UFC Mania: UFC 77 – Kalib Starnes vs. Alan Belcher
  6. 411 Mania: The Steroids Epidemic!
  7. The Terra Haute Tribune-Star (IN): Shane Meehan has tall MMA test against Fort Wayne native Justin Wade
  8. The Prince George Citizen (Canada): Adriano Bernardo has to go through Tim Hague to be King of the Cage
  9. The North Platte Bulletin (NE): Controversial deputy Kelly Wiseman resigns (Wiseman has an MMA gym and is a promoter)
  10. NBC Sports (Kenny Florian): History lessons
  11. China Combat: Art of War 7 on July 28th
  12. MMA on Tap: Shawn Tompkins Responds to Stéphane Dubé

Topics: Canada, Media, MMA, UFC, Zach Arnold | 70 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |

70 Responses to “Tuesday media turmoil: Truths and untruths”

  1. MMA Fan says:

    zack could be the most important writer in mma.
    the only one that really digs for the facts.

  2. jeff aka whaledog says:

    If I understood Luke’s point correctly, he said that fighters are under tremendous pressure – pressure we as ‘normal’ people can’t understand. Therefore, it’s OK if they cheat.

    Color me unimpressed.

  3. 45 Huddle says:

    Fighters dropping dead at an early age should not be a concern in fighting. In Pro Wrestling, these guys are stacking steroids. They are sometimes taking them year round with no off cycle. They are combining those with an addiction to pain killers. Also with drinking. And who knows what other type of drugs, such as cocaine, weed, and other recreational activities.

    The only other problem in sports with a high death rate are NFL Lineman. Much like Pro Wrestlers, they are stretching their bodies beyond their natural limits in terms of size, and it catches up with them. With many other sports, there are steroid issues, but you don’t see people dropping dead at an early age.

    At the end of the day, the responsibility lays on the fighters. Not Zuffa. Not Dana White. Not any MMA organization. Look at cycling. They basically monitor these guys 24/7, and they still have an epidemic. Which just goes to show that no matter how much the organization does, there will still be cheaters.

    Plus, the point needs to be made that the majority of the time when fighters are caught taking steroids, they are typically the loser of the fight. So what does that say about the drug use? That fighters who aren’t good enough to compete try to make it more of a fair playing game, but even steroids can’t make up for their lack of abilities.

    The only two fighters recently who have won their fights on steroids were Royce Gracie & Sean Sherk. The Gracie/Sakuraba fight was so bad that they could have both been on every drug in the world, and it still would have been horrible. And many people, including myself, have their doubts about if Sherk ever took steroids. (I’m waiting for the hearing to make a final judgment). Even then, both fighters in that fight tested positive, so the winner had to be testing positive by default.

  4. Zach Arnold says:

    Fighters dropping dead at an early age should not be a concern in fighting. In Pro Wrestling, these guys are stacking steroids.

    And you don’t think that’s happening with some MMA fighters right now?

    They are combining those with an addiction to pain killers. Also with drinking.

    I’ve interviewed guys like Don Frye before who practically laugh about it, talking about taking painkillers for his fight against Yoshida at the Tokyo Dome while drinking expensive tequila. It is what it is.

    You don’t think a lot of MMA fighters are using painkillers like their pro-wrestling counterparts?

    Kevin Randleman is a very lucky man right now to be alive and functioning. You can put your body through a lot of abuse if you’re an MMA fighter training for a big fight.

    Plus, the point needs to be made that the majority of the time when fighters are caught taking steroids, they are typically the loser of the fight. So what does that say about the drug use? That fighters who aren’t good enough to compete try to make it more of a fair playing game, but even steroids can’t make up for their lack of abilities.

    Now you’re getting into the motives of why MMA fighters take steroids. I agree with you – many of the guys who fail the drug tests lost their fights. So, what are the motives? Injury rehabilitation (the speeding up of it) is obviously one factor, but another factor is trying to gain a real boost of strength and power. Plus, there are some fighters who might feel that they need to take steroids to gain an edge psychologically on their opponent.

  5. Rohan says:

    Well I think Zach is pretty much on the money with his recent column – at the very least it was well researched, well written and exposed the magnitude of the problem. It bares comparison with what Meltzer has been writing in the Observer (on MMA) for what seems like years now and I’m glad Zach and others are giving the issues and arguments a eloquent wider airing.

    There is a real danger that MMA could have slid into the pro-wrestling cycle of outlaw abuse with the wide spread health problems and deaths that brings – I think there is a chance that slide can now be stopped to some extent.

    Having followed MMA and pro-wrestling from 1993 I hope both industries can learn and move on.

  6. Zach Arnold says:

    There is a real danger that MMA could have slid into the pro-wrestling cycle of outlaw abuse with the wide spread health problems and deaths that brings – I think there is a chance that slide can now be stopped to some extent.

    I agree with these remarks. MMA is still a young industry, so there is plenty of time to help improve the situation before it gets worse. I’m actually bullish on some positive changes happening in the next few years, which is why I’m happy to see many writers talking about the drug culture in MMA. It’s not a lost cause at all when it comes to talking about the safety and health of fighters.

    One thing that should be pointed out – when I refer to MMA’s drug culture, I’m not talking strictly about steroids. For some reason, that has gotten lost in translation. I’m talking about all drugs – painkillers and other prescription meds. It’s when fighters abuse these in conjunction with steroids or GH that scares me.

  7. D. Capitated says:

    First thing is first, because I asked for it far earlier in this argument:

    Speaking of California, I was able to get the data from the CSAC in regards to drug suspensions in Q1 2007 (January 1st ~ March 30th). Here’s the quick breakdown in data – 7 boxing, 8 MMA, 15 total suspensions. 13 were for marijuana, 2 were for hydrocodone. Full steroid testing was not implemented until Q2 of 2007 in the state. In Q2 of CSAC drug testing, there were 17 failures for ‘drugs of abuse’. In other words, the CSAC is regularly catching fighters on ‘drugs of abuse’ at a pretty consistent rate of 15 or higher. With the steroid testing added, the numbers are jumping up. So, let’s do the math – 23 MMA suspensions in all of 2006 in California, 8 in Q1 2007, and 20 or 21 in MMA in Q2 2007. Well over a benchmark of 50, which would average out to a little over 3 suspensions a month in California of MMA fighters.

    Now, looking at that list from California, it leads me to ask other questions. For instance, how many events were in California Q1 ’07 compared to Q2 ’07? You list what the suspensions were for Q1 but not Q2. Why?

    This does help prove a point I made awhile back regarding the suspensions and their basis. 13 Q1 suspensions for use of marijuana doesn’t sound to me like MMA has a massive painkiller problem.

    I’ve interviewed guys like Don Frye before who practically laugh about it, talking about taking painkillers for his fight against Yoshida at the Tokyo Dome while drinking expensive tequila. It is what it is.

    You don’t think a lot of MMA fighters are using painkillers like their pro-wrestling counterparts?

    You know what, I do doubt that the majority or even “a lot” (by that, more than statistical averages for all people) are using painkillers in the fashion that pro wrestlers do. There’s no need to do so. That Don Frye often talks about the Ken Shamrock match as being the genesis of his abuse is fine and dandy, but decent commission work probably would have changed that (seeing as he supposedly used painkillers before stepping in). In the aftermath of the bout, he likely would have been suspended quite awhile, but since it was in Japan, no one cared.

    So, what are the motives? Injury rehabilitation (the speeding up of it) is obviously one factor, but another factor is trying to gain a real boost of strength and power. Plus, there are some fighters who might feel that they need to take steroids to gain an edge psychologically on their opponent.

    Well, its all the factors that lead people in other sports to do them. Its so that they have a competitive edge.

  8. kjh says:

    In response to: “Plus, the point needs to be made that the majority of the time when fighters are caught taking steroids, they are typically the loser of the fight. So what does that say about the drug use?”

    It may simply mean that fighters who win tend to be smarter with their doping and know how to beat the tests better than their losing counterparts.

  9. Zach Arnold says:

    Now, looking at that list from California, it leads me to ask other questions. For instance, how many events were in California Q1 ‘07 compared to Q2 ‘07? You list what the suspensions were for Q1 but not Q2. Why?

    The CSAC did not give me the # of shows that happened in Q1 2007 like was given for Q2.

  10. chis says:

    Zach you just don’t like good news do you because you are always looking for something negative to do wIth MMA.

  11. Jeremy (not that Jeremy) says:

    I don’t think the link’s been posted, but Eddie Goldman had a typically hard hitting No Holds Barred podcast on Friday entitled, “How to Fight the Dope Cheats.”

    http://nhbnews.podomatic.com/entry/2007-07-21T01_02_52-07_00

    He comments on Zach’s article and suggests that MMA’s various promotions basically need to line up behind the WADA standards and submit to independent testing by a quasi-governmental authority (He suggests USADA).

    I’m not sure how reasonable those suggestions are, since AFAIK, USADA focuses on international amateur athletics. Worth listening to anyway, because even when Eddie’s frothing at the mouth insane, he’s funny.

  12. Zach Arnold says:

    The link to the Eddie show was posted a couple of days ago as a top link in a news update.

    Zach you just don’t like good news do you because you are always looking for something negative to do wIth MMA.

    Gosh, I must really work hard to manufacture negative stories. Why, nothing ever bad happens!

  13. Kid Nate says:

    No offense meant by the keyboard warriors question Zach, I was just stirring the pot for the radio show.

  14. Zach Arnold says:

    No offense meant by the keyboard warriors question Zach, I was just stirring the pot for the radio show.

    I didn’t take any offense from your question.

    I took offense at everything else said on the show (not related to you).

  15. Kid Nate says:

    Luke was just disagreeing with you, not dissing you.
    I think he’s against steroids he just doesn’t think there’s a realistic model for prevention to be found in the drug war/prohibition style where we test and scapegoat.

  16. Zach Arnold says:

    Luke was just disagreeing with you, not dissing you.

    I respectfully disagree. He came awfully close on his radio show to crossing a line and I’m not going to allow his statements to be unchallenged. He got his hand caught in the cookie jar and didn’t think some of the things he said thoroughly enough. If he wants to criticize me, then do it with some accuracy. Heaven knows how much abuse I’ve taken over the years. However, his attacks on me and Steve Sievert (a legitimate MMA writer with a great track record) were ill-informed and ill-conceived.

  17. Did anyone read Rossen’s article? I think that approach may be the same way Dana & co. are viewing the problem, and why Zuffa seems so reluctant to do its own drug testing.

    I think, like Rossen, that philosophically, the drug problem in MMA has more in common with the drug problem that plagued baseball in the 90s (and to some extent, lingers on today). Which of Barry’s home runs were the roids responsible for? 642? 528? It’s a dead end argument. The same is true, to some extent, with MMA: would that punch have done more damage? Would he have gassed earlier? “Performance” in a sport like MMA is too multi-dimensional and even subjective to point out artificialities.

    It’s a difficult issue to navigate in black and white terms. Moreover, the emotional attachment fans – short for ‘fanatics’ – often feel to fighters clouds the issue even further.

    But ultimately, it’s a cultural problem, methinks. It has a lot to do with perception, and less to do with performance. No one wants to worship a doper.

  18. Zach Arnold says:

    Aaron – when it comes to debating the morality of drug abuse in sports, I think the ship sailed on that aspect of the debate long ago… at least with me it did. I’m not debating the morality of fighters abusing drugs. Rather, my concern is with the health and safety of the fighters. I don’t like seeing fighters fail drug tests, but those tests do serve a purpose.

  19. It’s not about morality. At Rossen’s article suggsted, it has a lot to do with performance vs. perception. What did the steroid do that helped Bonds slug no. 459? It could have been nothing, it could have been everything. What matters to most people is the fact that he took it, not that it mattered.

  20. Tomer Chen says:

    It’s not about morality.

    Of course it does. It has to do with the morality of bringing in foreign objects/chemicals into the equation that were regarded as ‘dishonorable’ enhancers that affect the tool(s) of the game to the advantage of the user. In Baseball, they banned the spitball because it was causing freakishly unnatural pitches that wouldn’t have happened if it was a clean pitch. And there are other examples of sports going “Whoa, whoa, whoa! What you’re doing goes against the entire principle of fair play!”

    Certainly perception adds to the equation, but don’t totally disregard morality, because there is an element of it.

  21. Luke says:

    Zach, if it came across as me dissing you, I apologize. That was never my intention. Everyone’s got their side in this story and in many respects, for their own personal reasons. I actually had your article open when I was doing the show. I never intended to personally smash you. I don’t personally agree with the outrage over steroids as others do, but I’m not “against” you or mad or angry or anything that would cause me to personally insult you.

    Let me know if you want to talk about it.

  22. Luke says:

    Zach, after reading this twice I’m honestly shocked. What reason or incentive could I possibly have to insult you? You’re a respected blogger and journalist whose page and work I read regularly.

    Again, I’m sorry if you feel I accussed you of any wrongdoing. When I referenced “cowards” that was a statement largely about people who leave comments on messageboards. Never once was I implying it was you. Hell, I even gave you a plug (whatever that’s worth) because your work should be read.

    Steroids is a serious problem and yes, even more so in the professional wrestling world. You certainly have some perspective to bear here for your expertise all the way around. But regardless of where you stand, I stand by the belief that steroids is a huge problem…just not one that calls for my anger and indignation.

    If you’d like a formal apology, I’d be happy to offer one. But I’d just like to say exactly what I said on the show: reasonable people should be able to disagree about MMA and all that entails. Intelligent, smart opinions in MMA are rare and even rarer still are smart, intelligent discussions. I’m allowed to say to you or Kevin Iole or whoever that I think any sort of moral preening has no place here. I made a specific point to say it’s just my opinion…seeing as how everyone’s got one of those, they aren’t really that special.

    I have no more a purchase on the truth than you. My reasoning is as susceptible to error as anyone’s. Whatever the case, you never have been nor are now a target.

  23. Tomer, that’s closer to what I was getting at. But, as I hinted at with my earlier post, the nature of morality is utterly subjective; it’s a ‘sticky’ notion, and a poor word to frame the steroids debate with. Everyone’s morals differ. In professional sports, morality is a diluted term.

    Perception may be tinged with morality and moralizing – as is usually the case – but in the steroids debate, it needs to be taken at face value, that is, bad press is bad perception, and in sports, image means a lot.

    Like Rossen argued and the Bonds debate illustrates, steroids offer some advantages, and numerous disadvantages. But great fighters and great baseball players aren’t made in the laboratory. Zach’s argument is a legitimate one, though, because we see firsthand the effects of drugs on pro wrestlers, in Benoit and countless other cases.

    My point being, is that how people perceive drug use – as illegal, as un-Christian, as ‘immoral’ – matters just as much, if not more than, the fact that athletes are actually taking drugs. It’s not clear cut scientific ‘cheating’ as some would have it, and the debate as to ban drugs because they offer unfair advantages is murky. Zach’s argument is the only one that holds up.

  24. Tomer Chen says:

    My point being, is that how people perceive drug use – as illegal, as un-Christian, as ‘immoral’ – matters just as much, if not more than, the fact that athletes are actually taking drugs. It’s not clear cut scientific ‘cheating’ as some would have it, and the debate as to ban drugs because they offer unfair advantages is murky. Zach’s argument is the only one that holds up.

    The drug testing policy (as well as policies such as closed bottles approved by commissions in Boxing and MMA) was likely a result of several incidents (such as the infamous Panama Lewis ‘special mixed’ bottle incident at the Aaron Pryor-Alexis Arguello I fight) building up to an “Enough is enough!” moment where the big commissions (NJSACB, NSAC, NYSAC & CSAC) basically said “Weird events like Pryor gaining back his energy magically from a mysterous bottle has to end. We want to promote the moral fairness of the sport (which, yes, is perceptive) so we are going to test for drugs, ban ‘special’ bottles and so forth.”

    And if we want to go back even further, the evolution of Boxing’s rules from Broughton’s rules to the London Prize Ring Rules to the Marquess of Queensberry rules and even the evolution of the MoQ rules to add stuff such as the neutral corner rule and mandatory eight count both tried and legitimize the image of the sport (perception) as well as to (try to) be on a moral high ground by not allowing fighters to do dangerous things that could cause health risks (such as standing above an opponent, ready to clock them back down ala Jess Willard-Jack Dempsey).

    Morality, of course, is in the eye of the beholder, but there must be a reasonable consensus for a sport to ever gain any foothold with the mainstream. While the bareknuckle Boxing fights did get some mainstream press, it was mainly negative (“How barbaric!”) with some positive pieces (mainly from Richard K. Fox’s Police Gazette), although the fighters were constantly on the run from the law (perhaps the best example being the John L. Sullivan-John Flood fight which literally was on a barge in the dead of night).

  25. Zach Arnold says:

    In response to this link;

    You said what you said on your radio show. I’m not one to play the ‘victim card’ and ask for any reparations. I responded to the claims. If the public cares or does not care about the matter, that’s not in my control.

  26. Tomer, those are some fairly isolated incidents, and while I’m sure there are more undocumented incidents of drug use directly and obviously affecting performance, all it takes is a Pryor to influence the public’s perception, even if there was only ever one incident of magically rediscovering one’s energy in the middle of a fight.

    Is there anything wrong with a fair playing field? Of course not, that doesn’t make assumptions concerning ‘unfair’ use and effects of druge use any more presumptuous. Like I said before: uniform and universal drug testing should be instituted, because drugs hurt people.

  27. Inquilabi says:

    Yo, I thought that CBS Sportsline article was top-notch; a fine piece of journalism written with integrity. I find your site to be one of the most informative out there. Screw them haters…

  28. Ivan Trembow says:

    “Now, looking at that list from California, it leads me to ask other questions. For instance, how many events were in California Q1 ‘07 compared to Q2 ‘07? You list what the suspensions were for Q1 but not Q2. Why?”

    The CSAC didn’t start testing for steroids until March 31, 2007, which was the last day of Q1 2007. So any statistics before that date would show plenty of suspensions but none for steroids. This was written about on MMAWeekly when word came out that Diego Sanchez had tested positive for marijuana (article from March 23, 2007: http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=3653) and when the list was published of all the MMA fighters who failed drug tests in California from March 2006 through February 17, 2007 (article published on April 3, 2007: http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=3704).

  29. Ivan Trembow says:

    Also, I didn’t hear the response to Zach’s CBS Sportsline article, but I thought that the article itself was excellent. It raised a lot of valid points, as did many of the other articles calling for change in the industry, and none of them have brought about a response from the UFC other than one insult-laden response directed at a web site that they already hated.

  30. schz says:

    kinda cool how you specified you didnt receive any *financial* payment. nice play of words. so what did you get out of it then?

  31. Tomer Chen says:

    Is there anything wrong with a fair playing field? Of course not, that doesn’t make assumptions concerning ‘unfair’ use and effects of druge use any more presumptuous. Like I said before: uniform and universal drug testing should be instituted, because drugs hurt people.

    I agree. I’m just disagreeing that morality does not play a role in the necessity of said testing (and other) policies instituted by the commissions. The entire point of sports, by their definition, is to engage competitively with others using only their physical and mental capabilities to determine who is the ‘superior’ athlete in that sportative context. Hence, anything that tips the balance of using only said physical and mental capabilities would be immoral from the standpoint of a sport, in its purest sense.

  32. jeff says:

    Great… now the MMA media is a mirror of the MLB media just the writers are 20 years younger.
    I just cant wait for another steriod article and blogger catfight.

  33. schz says:

    i dont even know who this luke guy is, i dont even know where to listen to his garage recording you refer to as radio, but apparently whatever he did record in his garage really bugged you; enough to merit 8 full paragraphs. i think you gave this guy too much credit.

  34. TG says:

    Zach, nobody cares about your feelings, YOUR A DRAMA QUEEN! Why are you so concerned with what someone said about you, your very insecure. Thanks for turning me on to Lukes site, at least i never have to come here again to PEREZ arnold’s site.

    The other thing is your a HYPOCRITE. Your pissed cause someone attacked you but that’s what you do ALL DAY. Its funny how when the tables turn, you just can’t take it. Let me guess this is the FIRST TIME IN YOUR LIFE, somebody talked about YOU. A drama king like yourself should be sending him a pair of your favorite west hollywood shorts.

    Please go back to pro wrestling, it suits you. FAKE, DRAMA, GAY MEN

  35. Tomer Chen says:

    Nice to see the trolls coming out from under the bridge…

  36. UFCDaily.com says:

    I tuned into Any Given Saturday last night and wasn’t offended by what he said at all. I am not saying either Zach or Luke are right but it was a commentary on the situation based on his personal opinion, not a factual attack on the articles Zach has written or his stance on the issue of steroids.

    I say drop it. What happened happened but I think addressing the steroid problem in MMA and presenting your opinion is much more important than fighting over something that was said in the heat of the moment.

  37. I agree with UFCDaily. You guys should kiss and make up, if not only for the children’s sake.

  38. Zack says:

    “Zach you just don’t like good news do you because you are always looking for something negative to do wIth MMA.”

    If you want fluff pieces, go read InsideFighting.com.

    “Please go back to pro wrestling, it suits you. FAKE, DRAMA, GAY MEN”

    Easily solution = go enjoy other websites instead. There are a bunch of us who like this one. I’ve enjoyed Zach’s writing for a long time and was glad when he started an MMA related website. He also picked a great name calling it “Fight OPINION” and he writes solid pieces which are never passed off as straight news.

  39. Matt McEwen says:

    I don’t think that anyone doubts that fighters using steroids or abusing addictive drugs is a bad thing for said fighters, and the sport as a whole. Obviously, all pertinent steps should be taken to eliminate it from the sport and treat all fighters who have problems.

    Where I think some of the issues that people have with the situation is the attitude some people have taken towards the issue.

    I’ve seen the CSAC positive test numbers thrown around, and when you look at them, at least 1/2 of the positives were for marijuana. In all honesty, I couldn’t care less if a fighter smokes weed. It’s akin to someone having a beer in my opinion. In fact, I’d say it’s even less of an issue than alcohol. To lump in positive marijuana tests in with cocaine and steroids and label them all the same is, in my opinion, irresponsible.

    As for painkillers, I agree that the abuse of them should be watched out for and help found for those who do. However, if someone has a legitimate injury and is legitimately treated for it with the use of painkillers, than that is a different story. I’ve had hydrocodone perscribed myself. Having used it doesn’t mean I have a raging addiciton and will die young.

    Secondly, I know some of my problem comes from the implication being thrown around that a majority of fighters out there are either A)on steroids or B)abusing painkillers.

    I do not have the exact numbers in front of me, but the UFC has been running shows in Nevada – home to the preeminent state athletic commision – since 2001 and how many positive tests have there been? Off the top of my head, I can think of Barnett, Sylvia and …… that’s it. I’m sure there have been a few more, but have there been that many that the terms “culture of abuse” and “epidemic” REALLY apply?

    A notion that I’ve seen suggested also is that the tone of some MMA reporting has taken on the overall negative tone of pro wrestling reporting. As a reader, it takes a lot of the enjoyment out of being a fan. As a fan, it takes a lot of the enjoyment out of being a reader.

    I’m not saying that a blind eye should be turned to anything negative, and only positives should be reported on, but the opposite is true as well.

    If I’m wrong in my assessment that the drug problem is not an epidemic, then I would gladly eat my words. However, I would suggest that the number of suspensions over the past 7 years since regulation became a more common factor supports the notion that it is not.

    All this being said, I really do enjoy most of what is written on the site, and think people like Zach and others do a good job.

  40. Luke says:

    “i dont even know who this luke guy is, i dont even know where to listen to his garage recording you refer to as radio, but apparently whatever he did record in his garage really bugged you; enough to merit 8 full paragraphs. i think you gave this guy too much credit.”

    Maybe he is giving me too much credit, but let’s all come to terms about Any Given Saturday, shall we?

    I cannot – CANNOT – get a 1.800 number for the show. I’ve already asked. The company that signed me to do the show is called Blog Talk Radio. They’ve got their own weird phone system that won’t allow you to attach an 800 number to it. They are adding a click to talk feature so you eventually won’t have to call in, but for now, that’s the way it works.

    Second, Blog Talk Radio was designed to be the bridge between what the name implies: blogging and talk radio. Instead of having to read what every blogger is writing, why not just listen? That’s their concept anyway. They aren’t trying to promote the best quality radio on a technical level, just easy access radio that can be interactive. Mission accomplished, I’d say.

    With respect to Zach, my door is always open.

  41. chis says:

    Zach lets see some good news with not just MMA but also Kickboxing, Pro-Wrestling and Boxing please Just one a day or a week .

  42. Zack says:

    A lot of the positive tests have come from the CSAC testing EVERYONE on the card. Typically the NV UFC’s have only tested title fights/main events and one other random fight on the card, so 6 guys tops out of 18 fighters.

    It makes sense when you start testing 3x the amount of people, you’re going to start getting 3x the positive tests. It’s going to be really interesting to see where this goes.

  43. JThue says:

    Vinokourov caught blood-doping in TdF today, and entire Astana team has withdrawn. I guess cycling had to respond to the Sherk/Franca positives… Anyway, people saying it doesn’t hurt the sport(like cycling) really aren’t taking a close look at the situation. Thousands of fans at TdF doesn’t mean anywhere near all of them have faith in that the winner of the tour or any given stage is clean. They come for the spectacle, not to see who the best pure clean clyclist in the world is. And it’s wearing the sport down, slowly. Those fans don’t pay a dime to watch the action – it’s the sponsors and TV deals that matter. To their credit, cycling is trying to deal with this, no matter how ugly it makes their sport look from the outside. Even with yearly setbacks like this of top stars getting caught, they keep battling it. Kudos for that.

    Now then, some relevance… Cycling decided to go after the problem, and have caught a lot of cheaters, every year using more and more advanced forms of doping. It’s a contstant struggle of technology versus technology because doping DOES make a hell of a big diffeence in that sport. As others have mentioned, MMA is a trickier deal, but then why not support/urge MMA doing all in its power to stop the dope-issue? Unlike cycling, I think MMA has a serious chance of dealing with this problem in fairly quick and damage-preventing fashion, because doping in MMA ISN’T that advanced(much due to the little amount of difference it really can make and resulting amateurish forms of use), and it can be dealt with.

    I disagree that this is in any danger of going down the pro-wrestling route of death, but in the end that shouldn’t have to matter either. If MMA is to be taken seriously as a mainstream sport, clean fighters is a fundamental requirement in this day and age.

  44. Adam Morgan says:

    I tuned into Any Given Saturday last night and wasn’t offended by what he said at all. I am not saying either Zach or Luke are right but it was a commentary on the situation based on his personal opinion, not a factual attack on the articles Zach has written or his stance on the issue of steroids.

    I completely agree here. I tuned in last night as well and listened for a second time today. I didn’t think the nature of the show was attacking in any manner at all. Just a different viewpoint.

  45. Preach says:

    Winokurow is even worse than Sherk/Franca, because of the way he decided to cheat. Instead of going the “usual” way of blood-doping, i.e. using the athletes own blood to richen it with erythrozytes like Dr. Fuentes used to, the Astana team used foreign blood. This practice may be more effective, but it is more or less a walk on the razors edge, as it can lead to allergic reactions, kidney damage, high fever, jaundice- hiv- or hepatitis-infections and last but not least sudden allergic shock. To say this form of doping is reckless would be quite an understatement.

    And concerning all the “thousands of fans” that show up at the TdF race course – one has to keep in mind that they’re not really all fans of cycling, but rather there for the spectacle. Let’s think about it for a moment, you live in a rural area, where nothing interesting ever happens, but then you hear that the Tour de France will lead right through your town or village – will you go and watch? I certainly would, even if I were mainly there to hope for an accident, a mass crash or something like that.

    BTW, it seems as if Rasmussen can continue the Tour (and eventually win it), because of an administrative error, since the UCI and the ADD (the danish Anti-Doping agency) wrote down the wrong date for his last scheduled test. It’s really turning more and more into a “Tour de Farce”

  46. Rohan says:

    Nothing like a good spat – but i hope this settles down. MMA unlike almost all other high profile sports doesn’t have a significant print media in America as I understand it (the UK has a burgeoning magazine scene although I don’t think it has deep roots). Therefore it needs those to aspire as journalists online to act in a way that at least attempts to maintain respectability – having a blog squabble doesn’t help that.

    Personally my opinion falls towards Zach’s. I fear for MMA fighters health. I fear for the reputation of the sport – if there is a scandal you can cry media witchhunt all you like (the WWF and the McMahons still do to this day). It doesn’t matter the damage will be done. And I care that the competition is to greatest degree possible fair (whilst accepting some will beat the system).

    A rigorous approach to testing and enforcement can make a key difference in all of those areas – it won’t be perfect but it would pertainly avoid the Tour de France, athletics and (yes) WWE situation where everything was swept under the carpet for years and now the future well being of the sports is in doubt because the problem reached critical mass.

  47. Rohan says:

    On cycling I agree somewhat about why people turn up – the spectcle in London was incredible with millions of people turning up. I got drunk with my friends in the park next to the race and had a fabulous day.

    The trouble is that sponsers and european (France, Germany, Spain) TV money is the only things that support the whole pro-cycling scene – if they pull out, and I imagine several sponsers will the house of cards will collapse.

  48. m.d. says:

    Geez Zach, this is the second time you invoke Kevin Randleman to support your argument. Well then, show me one piece of evidence that steroid abuse (with Big Kev one would assume you’re alluding to teh roidz) causes viruses that eat the flesh of one’s lungs. A peer-reviewed medical journal would be preferable. Thanks.

    Other points.

    First, any steroid use in MMA circles is presumably for performance enhancement purposes, not bodybuilding purposes. These fighters make a living off of two things. One, winning their fights, and second, entertaining the fans. The obsession with muscle mass that many feel contributes to the WWE “culture of death” is nonexistent in MMA because neither the top draws in the sport (Liddell, Griffin, Ortiz, Couture, Hughes, Gracie, etc) nor the second tier main eventers (Franklin, Sanchez, Karo, Penn, etc) nor the main card regulars (too many to list) rely on carrying a gross excess of muscle relative to their frames (i.e. Guerrero, Benoit) to achieve either of the two objectives I stated above. In fact, Zach’s fellow crusader Wade Keller keeps harping on how Vince McMahon should look to MMA to see that it’s possible to draw even if you don’t look like Ahhnold in his prime.

    Looking at other factors the wrestling punditry deems part of the “culture of death,” the road schedule also doesn’t compare because, well, there is no house show schedule to endure. Not to mention the flatback bumps, concussive chairshots, dangerous highspots, etc. that take place at most every wrestling event. Time off is more than plentiful, to state the obvious. Recreational drugs, even an interventionist like Zach Arnold would admit, are in the realm of the individual. Painkilller use is probably prevalent to some extent, and it probably varies greatly by individual. Still, that’s moderated by commission testing and suspensions (see Rutten, Bas). Also, another class of combat athletes, boxers, have been rigorously training and fighting for well over a century, but unless I’m mistaken they’re not dropping dead of painkiller ODs (they are of course dropping dead of brain trauma but that’s largely a boxing-specific issue).

    Anyway, the point is the cycling analogy is much more relevant than the wrestling analogy. The issue here is elite-level athletes looking for an edge, just like in other sports. God, I’m just sick of this steroids hysteria. Bonds! Benoit! Sherk!

  49. Preach says:

    The bad thing is that it’s not only tv-money and corporate sponsors – Astana is being funded by the kazakh government!

  50. klown says:

    Luke makes good points, in an overly harsh tone. I think he’s sorry about the tone and it would be cool for Zach not to hold a grudge about it, IMHO. As for the point Luke does make, it basically says: athletes experience serious pressure to break anti-doping rules, to the point of putting their health at risk. It’s cruel to further punish them and hold them in contempt.

    My take: Punitive/restrictive measures are insufficient as long as there are systemic pressures to commit the act. I believe in the importance of punitive/restrictive measures but only and always in conjunction with measures that address the systemic pressures.

    In other words, there should be harsher punishments and more effective testing systems that hold fighters accountable for cheating, as most MMA commentators advocate. Simultaneously fighters, like all workers, need to band together and fight their rights until they achieve health education, medical coverage, better pay, and greater control over their own careers, including when, where and whom to fight.

    No fighter should EVER be pressured to fight despite an injury, under threat of ruining his career and not being able to feed his family.

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