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Jim Lampley on ESPN Radio
By Zach Arnold | May 7, 2007
He appeared on Colin Cowherd’s radio show this morning. Audio links: Lampley interview and caller feedback.
I just listened to the segment and it was intriguing. Cowherd asked Lampley if MMA was a threat to boxing and he brushed it aside, saying that the two sports could exist side-by-side. He (Lampley) stated that he regretted his wisecrack on MMA on the boxing PPV, saying that it made both him and boxing sound defensive against MMA. Lampley further stated that he is irritated by comments that MMA will steal boxing’s thunder. He claims that MMA will not produce a more mature economic event than boxing will (i.e. the level of fighter purses on the line like there was for De La Hoya & Mayweather).
Lampley stated that boxing needs to do a better job of marketing its globalized product to American consumers. He argued that other sports such as MLB and the NBA have done a good job of marketing stars from all over the world and that 18 of the top 20 champions or ‘aces’ in boxing are not American.
Lampley said that UFC was working on a pro-wrestling model where they could control the matchmaking and regulations better, but that the wrestling model has a more limited upside due to a compacted schedule with a higher occurrence of re-matches (whereas in big fights, boxers face each other just once). He stated that boxing needs a Curt Flood, a fighter who will walk away from alphabet soup titles and sanctioning bodies. In a strange argument, Lampley tried to put over promoting irregularities as a ‘fascinating’ part of boxing. He discussed all of the concessions that Floyd Mayweather Jr. had to make to fight Oscar De La Hoya (such as what kind of gloves to wear, the size of the ring, etc.) Lampley argued that boxing has an organic promoting system and that you can’t automatically go to a UFC-style business model. In other words, the genie is out of the bottle.
Topics: Boxing, Media, MMA, Zach Arnold | 22 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
Here’s what I got, but might have missed some.
Lamply regrets bringing up mma in a negative comparison. Said he should not have even mentioned it. Said that he is irritated that people mention that mma is on the same level as boxing. Mentions the storied history so on and so forth. Admits the rise in popularity of mma, but says that it is because people are attracted to the violence. Mma-ist lack the skill to reduce the violence, to stay out of damage. Admits popularity again, but will not be on the same level as boxing until mma has the same monetary prominence. Disses the rematches frequently in the sport (I don’t think he ever mentioned the UFC, just MMA). Suggests that monopoly doesn’t give the fans the fights they want to see.
Cowherd did a good job challenging Lampley. Cowherd seems on top of it with knowledge. I think that it is interesting that Lampley uses the term “mma†instead of “ultimate fightingâ€, never mentions UFC, IFL, Pride, etc. Just like he never mentions WBO, WBA?, etc… just boxing. I can see where he comes from in terms of rematches, but only from an outside perspective, ie Ken & Tito & Chuck & Randy & Fedor & Nog. But that is changing.
I agree that UFC Purses wont ever really match those of boxing.
Where did the heavy weight boxers go anyway? I know people would be very excited to watch a heavy weight fight any time it was on. Cowherd is awesome and he always gives props to MMA. I heard a Ken Shamrock interview he did and it was great.
Lampley is an asshole, period.
Most potential American HWs are entering Football, Basketball, etc. as they are higher paying jobs with (comparatively) less risk involved in terms of long term health (the only one that’s really close is Football and maybe Hockey as well). Why hope that in 5+ years you can make a multi-million dollar purse and risk physical and mental damage during the development period when you can start out with a nice chunk of change in the other sports? In addition, from what I remember the IOC has been thinking of dropping Boxing from the Olympics for years, especially because of the massive deterioration in the US Amateur scene in the last decade or two.
But yeah, the HWs are primarily coming from poorer places with less options for ‘big time’ money (such as former Soviet states, Africa, etc.), hence the 3 eastern European champions (Wladimir Klitschko, Oleg Maskaev & Ruslan Chagaev) and 1 US champion (Shannon Briggs) who upset another eastern European (Sergei Lyachovich) to get the WBO belt. And the only real contender at this point is a Nigerian (Samuel Peter), although American Lamon Brewster (who will be fighting Klitschko again in July) has a chance to win a belt (again).
Most of the best fighters in the world today (IMO) are situated in the lower weight classes, primarily around Junior Lightweight (where guys like Marco Antonio Barrera, Manny Pacquiao & Joan Guzman are fighting). The Heavyweight division was never huge on talent, just on explosive KOs, although the majority of big KOs in recent years have happened in the lower weight classes, anyway. The HW division today is pretty much two guys throwing sloppy punches for 12 rounds or clinching a crapload because they tend to gas out quicker (for the most part). And, in addition, there are no really explosive punchers at HW (like there was with George Foreman, Earnie Shavers & David Tua in the past) today, besides Samuel Peter.
I never bought the idea that the HWs are going into other sports. You don’t just transfer skills at will between sports, and this is especially true with fighting. Fighting takes a unique set of skills and a mentality that doesn’t usually cross over. I grew up around a lot of great boxers and most of them weren’t stand outs in other sports for one reason or another.
But generally, I don’t even read articles about Lampley bashing MMA anymore.
To Lampley’s credit, he could easily have been a LOT more negative towards MMA than what he appears to be. He simply comes off as a pround family member defending it’s heritage, and there are plenty of individuals on the MMA side who are acting worse.
Yes, but one of the biggest assets that fostered the US Amateur system (and in turn, the Professional system) in Boxing was money. 35 years ago, you’d be hard pressed to find a sport besides Boxing where $2.5 million (what Muhammad Ali & Joe Frazier each got for their ‘Fight of the Century’ first fight) was attainable within a year much less one night. There was an interest in potential talents and even non-talents to try their hand at Boxing, because even with the downside risk of physical and mental damage, they could make a ton of money in a (relatively) short period of time and get out as one of the wealthier athletes out there. Nowadays, only the top purses (such as the recent Mayweather-De La Hoya fight and a few others every decade) actually can compete with the annual salaries of Basketball, Baseball, Football, etc.
Simply put, while the physical and mental health risks remain and the top end purses have gone up a bit over the decades (in part due to inflation as well as the medium of PPV), the average fighter’s purses in a year is, at most, the same as it was 30 years ago (remember, fighters nowadays rarely fight more than 40-50 times in their careers versus 70+ fight careers that were more common 30 years ago). And given the many, many millions you could make if you became a pretty successful Baseball, Basketball, Football, etc. player with the (comparatively) lower risk of long term health damage involved, it becomes a more appealing medium.
There is more incentive nowadays to have your kid play Football throughout school and into College and hopefully get that sweet NFL contract than it is to try and make money in a sport where you will have your head and body punched at and very, very few fighters (out of the total amount active) actually make a comparative annual salary from the fight purses. And while not everyone can become a good enough Football player or a Baseball player to become a Pro, the mindset seems to be “It’s better to try and get into those pros than getting your brains mashed in.” In the 30s, during the Great Depression, there was incentive to fighting because lots of people lost the vast majority of their life savings and/or their jobs; in addition, lots of the available jobs were ridiculously dangerous and, comparatively, Boxing allowed for (relatively) higher purses than the average worker did in a job with probably about the same level of risk of long term health problems or even death. Hell, there were newspaper writers who complained that Jack Dempsey made several times more than the President of the United States in a year from one night of work (at his peak drawing years). Nowadays, however, this ‘incentive’ of making a higher level of income compared to the average worker or average athlete has deteriorated.
Will Boxing die tomorrow? No. But there is a reason why countries like the Ukraine, Belarus & Nigeria are filling up the Heavyweight title scene and countries like Thailand and Mexico still fight up lots of the lower weight classes: the desire for more money than they could make comparatively in their native lands. In the United States, the business and sporting landscapes have changed so that this incentive has fallen a good deal.
I’m looking forward to putting my kid in martial arts instead of football and baseball.
Go for the kneebar! 😀
There is nothing wrong with that, but if your kid (and I really hope this is a real life kid we are talking about and not what you plan to do if you have a kid) does want to play football, don’t get grumpy about it.
Speaking of radio…the FO show was excellent once again.
Whatever his views on MMA, I only wish the Ultimate Fighting world had an announcer as awesome as Jim Lampley. Asshole or not, there’s little debate that he’s the best in the game and a play-by-play man of his caliber would bring so much credibility to the MMA world.
I can live without the Merchant Of Venom but I was actually disappointed when I read that the HBO/UFC telecasts wouldn’t have Lampley. I think in calling the cards, he’d gain a real education and respect for MMA.
Plus, it would sound great.
I think Teddy Atlas is better, personally.
Another indication boxing is waning, whilst MMA is waxing: how many boxing gyms are there in the U. S., versus martial arts studios? Furthermore, how many U. S. high schools offer boxing to their students, versus wrestling?
And by martial arts studios, I guess I wouldn’t count things like yoga, tai chi, and tae kwon do. Ha ha! Just kidding… Sort of.
The Alamo takes a last stand….
Once again another fantastic informative piece of insider news with the article regarding Boxing vs MMA in the media. Pieces like this are why Fight Opinion is my first stop on the MMA sites for each day. I am exclusively an MMA fan and had no interest at all in seeing the Mayweather-de la Hoya fight; honestly, I didn’t know who Mayweather was until there was much discussion around this bout. Boxing lost my interest 12 years ago with all of the corruption and bogus decisions – I have never missed it, because I eventually found MMA and it continues to fulfill my sports desires completely.
The past couple of weeks have been consistent with news items regarding MMA and the comparisons to boxing. Only there is a considerable difference this time around, the pendulum is swinging more in favor of MMA. With the numerous overreaching articles about boxing being dead, the sports journalists for the first time are looking at MMA as a legitimate sport. As you pointed out in your article, this is greatly in part to how Dana White has handled the press under his thumb for quite some time now. While not all media pieces will be positive, the rise in positive stories is increasing, as is actual mainstream coverage itself.
The astonishing catalyst of this round of the media battle falls upon Floyd Mayweather himself, with a nice assist from Jim Lampley. How/Why they would bring MMA into the discussion on one of the biggest fights for a long time for boxing is jawdropping. If boxing truly is on its last foot, then these comments, and the reaction, surely all but proved it. While boxing is long from dead, this historic sport will never go away, this appears to be another stellar victory in the battle to bring MMA to the mainstream. As you noted in your article, this was indeed mana for Dana White and he proved why the UFC is one of the top promoters in the world.
For the record, I continue to be amazed at all of the talk about boxer vs. MMA fighter matchups. The idea is ridiculous. This reminds me of the the short time that Michael Jordan attempted a baseball career and failed to ignite any interest. It’s two different sports, requiring different skillsets, training techniques and numerous other factors that set each sport apart. Just because one athlete is the best at the sport he chooses, it doesn’t mean he will have the same dominace in any other sport solely based on his athleticism. I’d bet Elivis Sinosic or Ross Pointon would have great success against any elite boxer – in a MMA match. These aruments are beyond comprehension beyond anything other than a fantasy leaure type atmosphere.
In my opinion, the most important and long term impact of this recent hubris will end up being the nudging of the mainstream sports journalists. In the past, they have either ignored and/or disregarded MMA or predominantly reported erroneous falsities that are rarely challenged. But the extent of this recent discussion has only further legitamized the sport and due to the growing lack of mainstream interest in boxing, these journalists will be looking for what the people are desiring instead. Fans will look back to moments like this in the near future and realize that this was another moment in the turning of the tide.
Jason Bennett
Now before i spew my opinion, I am Canadian, and as such have no real good idea at how US colleges really work. But I am under the impression that there are no college boxing programs, or so few that I’ve never heard of any. But there are tons of baseball, basketball, football, wrestling and hockey programs out there. If you want to know where all the athletes are that once might have populated boxing clubs, I suggest we check those programs, because even if they don’t make the pros, they did get a degree of some kind, and still get to make decent coin.
There used to be NCAA Boxing (until 1960), but it was discontinued by the NCAA (probably because the brutality image of the sport) and a group of colleges, under the NCBA (National Collegiate Boxing Association), still do have Boxing teams. I think John McCain may have been a collegiate Boxer in his day, but don’t hold me to that. 😉
” I suggest we check those programs, because even if they don’t make the pros, they did get a degree of some kind, and still get to make decent coin.”
UMMM..Dustin…in US colleges, athletes on scholarship in those big time sports, often don’t graduate with any more knowledge about academic or business matters than when they first walked on campus. Many don’t graduate at all and when they do, as I witnessed first hand, they often have a little “help” in getting passing grades. The idea of a student-athlete is a bit of a joke in big time athletic programs.
I remember at UMD that one of my classmates who had taught a first semester English course (he was a triple major in Finance, English and some other degree) was told straight forward ‘Always give the jock a B or above’ by the administration, so yeah, it happens.