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Saturday news slate: More fighter unrest in PRIDE
By Zach Arnold | March 16, 2007
Click on full-page view to see how fellow Fight Opinion writer and Bear Pit Japan member Tetsuya Sano did in his amateur shootboxing tournament today in Tokyo.
Notes from a Sherdog video clip with IFL co-owner Kurt Otto: He says Bas Rutten will “make a special announcement” at the LA Forum show on Saturday (and so will the IFL owners). Otto says a key marketing strategy for the IFL at live events is to piggyback onto the Wizard World weekends, where you have 50,000-80,000 people coming in over a three-day time period. Otto compared it to how UFC piggybacked on The Arnold Classic. Otto stated that the appeal of IFL fighters to the Wizard World crowd is that they are real-life superheroes and that in that demographic, there are some former pro-wrestling fans who (as they get older) want to see action but want the real deal.
In regards to the first My Network TV show, Otto said that the IFL will soon have a tighter leash on the creative control of the show. The next four shows have been already written out. The IFL has 21 more shows coming up on MYNT, therefore giving the IFL time to make it perfect or good as possible (Otto put over the third MYNT show as being great). He said that there aren’t expectations for the hardcore MMA fans to forgive them over the first MYNT show, but that overtime they will overcome what happened on that debut. In regards to MYNT, Otto said: “We trusted their direction, it wasn’t right, and we didn’t have time to fix it.”
Otto closed out by saying that the IFL will develop a World Grand Prix for the different weight classes. He claimed that he wanted the WGP champions to form a team of champions to be taken to other leagues to fight other champions. At first, Otto mentioned organizations but then quickly changed that to a singular tone (not saying UFC, but implying it), saying that they (UFC) wouldn’t do it because they have too much to lose.
Amateur shootboxing event in Tokyo
Fight Opinion writer/friend and Bear Pit Japan member Tetsuya Sano fought today in a -77kg amateur shootboxing tournament at Taito River Side Sports Center in Tokyo. In the two video clips that are shown here, he is in the red fight gear. Last year, Sano did a learning excursion to Seattle and met Josh Barnett. Much like past learning excursions from pro-wrestlers like Hiroshi Hase or Hiroyoshi Tenzan to Calgary, I think Sano’s training along with his aggressive fight-style serves him well. Along with the rest of the Bear Pit Japan members, I too would like to extend my best regards to Mr. Sano for his fight performance on Saturday.
Now, let’s make him famous. (He has now promptly greeted me with a what the hell did you do? post.)
Onto today’s headlines.
- The Bucyrus Telegraph Forum: Ohio fighters ready to cause some mayhem
- Ivan Trembow: UFC 70 airing on tape delay on Spike TV (take note of the item about how much it would cost UFC to air the event live in the US, and then juxtapose it to PRIDE airing their 4/8 Saitama Super Arena event live in the US)
- UFC Junkie: TUF 6 will feature 16 welterweights
- The Cumberland News (UK): War in Workington III show tonight
- Jeff Hamlin: IFL on FSN TV report
- Tatame (Portuguese): Paulo Filho wants out of PRIDE
- ADCC News: ‘Jacare’ out of ADCC 2007 series (this is because of his deal with PRIDE?)
- CBS Sportsline: Interview with Joe Riggs
- The Associated Press: My Network TV tries, tries again
- The Salinas Californian: Salinas fighters to spar in Soledad
- PR Inside: Imperia Entertainment’s James Hergott steps down
- Mad Squabbles: Snapshot of the Day – Denis Kang’s broken hand
- MMA HQ: Thoughts on the IFL
- UFC Mania: TUF 6 – tryouts begin April 10th at Palms in Vegas
- MMA Weekly: UFC 68 fighters pass drug tests
- The Waynesburg Herald Standard: Josh Koscheck battling for shot at welterweight championship
- The Long Beach Press-Telegram: Sports kilts (including a mention of fighter Marcus Davis)
- Press Release: Lake of the Torches Resort Casino teams up with KOTC
Topics: All Topics, Brazil, IFL, Japan, Media, MMA, PRIDE, UFC, UK, Zach Arnold | 33 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
Jacare out, and Arona returns this year at ADCC. Sounds like it’s gonna be something epic.
If the quick Babelfish translation is correct, does Paulo really think he’s big in the US? If so his friend lied to him.
This is what happens when people inside the business only read Sherdog and The Underground Forum, thinking that the reaction on those boards is what the American public is thinking. It takes a rare event for casual and hardcore Internet MMA fans to come to a consensus on something (like the IFL show on Monday night, in which the jury is still out).
Boy, does Otto not know his audience.
Comparing the Wiz World cons to the Arnold is very laughable.
I agree with Royal B.
Wizard World, Comic Con, and any other nerd fest is not the place to be promoting a MMA event. The people who go to those events have zero interest in this sport. Being a semi-dork myself, I can tell you that each crowd of fans is completely on the different spectrum of the equation.
Paulo Filho in the UFC would be nice. Pride is really hurting to hold onto their fighters. It looks like it might be a slow death at this point for Pride FC.
That’s where you’re wrong 45.
There is interest in the sport from the “culture community”, be it at least a small sub-community.
but saying that Wiz World = Arnold is totally wrong. The Arnold is the Comic Con International of martial arts.
Wiz World wishes it had CCI’s turnout.
Filho would run through the UFC 185 pound division pretty quickly; I don’t think Silva would be able to stop his takedowns or prevent him from doing whatever he wanted on the ground, especially after seeing his Pride losses to grapplers not nearly as good as Filho, and seeing Lutter come fairly close to subbing him.
I would personally love to see Lindland back in the UFC; I don’t know who would win a fight between him and Filho, just as I don’t know how a fight between Filho and Henderson would go.
Apparently the snippet from the Filho interview was taken out of context.
http://www.sherdog.net/forums/showpost.php?p=13972208&postcount=1
According to Dave Meltzer….
IFL Battleground got a .8 rating. This has already been talked early this week. Here are more details on this rating.
That equates to 1.12 Million viewers.
Viewership decreased by 33% when comparing the first hour to the second hour.
According to Meltzer, the rating was higher then the average on that station of a .6. However, it is still very bad for network TV, and FOX is threatening to pull the plug on the entire network due to the overall bad ratings.
The average age of a viewer was 37, which is high compared to a typical UFC viewer.
As he has pointed out, next weeks rating will give a better indication if fans actually come back to view the program after the bad first episode.
On a side note, this is a very different message then Otto has been talking about on various podcasts. According to him, the rating was much higher, and they did unbelievable.
What number had Otto talked about then? The 0.8 is somewhere between very good and, yes, unbelieavable, depending on how you look at it.
He was told it was a .8, and he himself didn’t give a number, but was told it was much higher.
Also, a .8 is not a good number for Network TV. A .8 for a UFC Fight Night replay on SpikeTV is good, but cable is a completely different ball of wax. In fact, shows on The CW that get a 1.6 (double the IFL) are typically considered bad enough that they shouldn’t be on the air the next year.
Also, the fact that it was a .8 overall, with a 33% turnoff rate for the second hour, means that the show started off higher then a .8, and ended up less then a .8 by the end of the show.
That is far from good to unbelievable.
On the Beatdown, Otto said he was told it did a 1.1. I think he is confusing 1.1 million -viewers- with the actual rating.
What do you guys think of this statement from today’s Link #2:
“UFC doesn’t want to give up its control of the product, wants its own crew to film it, and wants to use its own announcers, who are closer to pro wrestling announcers whose role is to build up the product as opposed to providing detached, objective commentary.”
What do you think of the UFC commentators? And how do they compare with other MMA commentators in terms of marketing vs objective commentary?
klown:
I don’t blame the UFC at all in wanting to keep creative control. HBO Sports is completely against any fight sport without the “pureness” of boxing, and I wouldn’t be surprised if Ross Greenburg and the other purists at HBO would choose to put Lampley and Merchant on commentary and just have them bash the UFC fighters for their refusal to accept that boxing is the only legitimate combat sport.
I don’t blame the UFC at all in wanting to keep creative control. HBO Sports is completely against any fight sport without the “pureness†of boxing, and I wouldn’t be surprised if Ross Greenburg and the other purists at HBO would choose to put Lampley and Merchant on commentary and just have them bash the UFC fighters for their refusal to accept that boxing is the only legitimate combat sport.
Name some sports that choose independently of the networks televising as to who will do production and announce the show. The NFL doesn’t even get to do that. HBO wants to treat the UFC like a real sport, and the UFC doesn’t want that because the announcers might let things slip like how Randy Couture really isn’t the best heavyweight in the world and holds what is in effect a paper belt.
HBO isn’t going to trash MMA. The only people worried about that are hypersensitive and insulated MMA fans who are afraid that the sport won’t be run like pro wrestling.
One other point as well to make: Its not as if the UFC is being forced to go on HBO. Dana White has desperately been trying to get on HBO for eons. The problem is that he wants them to bend to his will, and HBO really has no financial incentive to do so unless they control the production aspect and start promoting the PPVs.
“Also, a .8 is not a good number for Network TV. A .8 for a UFC Fight Night replay on SpikeTV is good, but cable is a completely different ball of wax. In fact, shows on The CW that get a 1.6 (double the IFL) are typically considered bad enough that they shouldn’t be on the air the next year.
Also, the fact that it was a .8 overall, with a 33% turnoff rate for the second hour, means that the show started off higher then a .8, and ended up less then a .8 by the end of the show.
That is far from good to unbelievable.”
You must confusing MNTV with ABC or something. 0.8 is a huge number in a climate where every expert claims its a UFC-thing, not an MMA thing, and on a network in such a horrible state – nevernmind head to head with WWE Raw. It’s a great number for a debut MMA show, and it showed the demo improvements it was supposed to. Absolutely does the first rating mean nothing two months from now, but as a start it was absolutely positive. Also, a .8 is a .8, and over one mill viewers is a huge increase in exposure for the IFL. Yes people tuned out and the show was crap, but neither changes the fact that it was a very good number for a debut MMA show. Getting dropped? UFC would be dropped off (big)network in an instant with their ratings too. It’s not like MMA is a mainstream hotbed or anything. We’re talking relatives here – fair comparisons. IFL were right on par with TNA Wrestling and UFC reruns-viewership with their .8 network rating, and stood back to nothing on the same channel. Absolutely can that be called good to unbelievable on their part.
The entire network might be dropped. I was not talking about the IFL specifically. If this new season of programming doesn’t improve, there is a good chance the entire station will be gone. Meltzer talked about this briefly, and there have been other, more mainstream news articles talking exactly the same way about the station.
You can look at it any way you want. But a .8 with a major drop off in viewership is just garbage for Network TV. Plain and simple. If the show stays anywhere in the range of a 1.0 (which I doubt it will), it could still get dropped the next year.
.8 is not bad for MyNetwork, but that is the problem. The network is doing very bad and is likely not to be around in a year, perhaps gone by Jan 2008.
D. Capitated,
I’ve heard the comments from Greenburg and Lampley about mma, and I have a hard time believing that some of the hostility towards mma that is embedded in the HBO Sports braintrust won’t seep out into the product.
Comparing it to the NFL is comparing apples and oranges. MMA is still not a “legitimate sport” in the eyes of the mainstream, whereas football is the most popular sport in America. HBO could bury the UFC by having announcers who take shots at the level of fighters, say it isn’t as much of a sport as boxing, saying the athletes aren’t as good as boxers, it is boring, etc., while the NFL could never be buried by announcers because it is so ingrained in American culture.
(take note of the item about how much it would cost UFC to air the event live in the US, and then juxtapose it to PRIDE airing their 4/8 Saitama Super Arena event live in the US)
Hi, I stubbed my toe today, can you please try to find a way to twist that into a negative comment about Pride
Just like PRIDE is likely going to pay 6-figures to air their show live in the US, you should pay me 6-figures to read every inane comment you ever make on this site.
Before anyone tries to argue with him anymore, please realize that 45 Huddle trolls the Sherdog boards as UFC FIGHT NIGHT, and has a major ax to grind against the IFL, and anything resembling healthy competition to the UFC.
I’ve heard the comments from Greenburg and Lampley about mma, and I have a hard time believing that some of the hostility towards mma that is embedded in the HBO Sports braintrust won’t seep out into the product.
So you believe HBO Sports would spend millions of dollars in an attempt to air the UFC and then take that opportunity to bash the hell out of it and hope it goes away? How realistic do you think that attitude is?
The sport needs a Teddy Atlas or a Larry Merchant of its own. Right now,every company is in the business of basically using paid American shills. Have you ever heard UFC announcers discuss in advance how poor a mismatch a fight is ever in the 14 years the promotion has existed? How about PRIDE? K-1? King of The Cage doesn’t do it. The reason why people like ESPN are tenative about jumping on the bandwagon for covering UFC is because UFC is not itself the sport. MMA is. And if they’re going to cover MMA, how do you jump into doing it while ignoring IFL/PRIDE/K-1/Cage Rage/Jungle Fight and so on?
[quote]Comparing it to the NFL is comparing apples and oranges. MMA is still not a “legitimate sport†in the eyes of the mainstream, whereas football is the most popular sport in America. HBO could bury the UFC by having announcers who take shots at the level of fighters, say it isn’t as much of a sport as boxing, saying the athletes aren’t as good as boxers, it is boring, etc., while the NFL could never be buried by announcers because it is so ingrained in American culture.[/quote]
Okay, so at least you acknowledge this. However, at what point is a branded and dominant UFC going to become more “legitimate” and allow for critical thought about their events? They pulled MMA websites press credentials (except, oddly, for Maxboxing) and complain openly about anyone even mildly critical of them or their plan. If Dana wants to control the sport like Vince controlled his fake sport, that’s nice and all, but as the sport becomes more established, he’s going to find himself in shitstorms of criticism and I don’t think he understands how to deal with it. That’s a key problem that’s never going away.
Allen Says:
March 17th, 2007 at 11:56 pm
Before anyone tries to argue with him anymore, please realize that 45 Huddle trolls the Sherdog boards as UFC FIGHT NIGHT, and has a major ax to grind against the IFL, and anything resembling healthy competition to the UFC.
—————————————–
What you say might indeed be correct, but that does not change the fact that MyNetwork is not likely to exist twelve months from today.
The rating the IFL got is good for them, but not for broadcast tv.
Dont know if anyone posted this, but the entire interview with paulo was posted and the comment was taken out of context, he stated when pride is done he will move to america, and right now he wants a shot at the mw title in pride, and he wont fight anderson silva.
Here was the full interview translation, zack might want to change his misleading title. Its ironic how the day that report came out about filho, I somehow new it would make zachs top headline.
– He thinks Pride will be done soon like everyone else and that he has a good fanbase in the USA so that if Pride fails he can go to the UFC
– He said he thinks it’s his turn for the WW title shot because he beat Misaki and Ninja.
– He loves fighting in Japan and wants the belt badly.
– Him and Anderson Silva are good friends and he wont fight him.
— He thinks that at WW Misaki, Ninja and Murilo Bustamante can all beat Dan Henderson and that Ninja was robbed in his fight against Henderson
– He wants to fight Shogun to prove that someone with a good ground game can beat anyone
– Instead of training other styles he’ll keep training on what’s working
– When asked about facing Wanderlei Silva he said that if Silva doesn’t think he’s good enough to face him then there’s nothing he can do, plus Silva is down right now and he wants to look up allthough he thinks losing to Dan Henderson is no shame.
D. Capitated,
As for HBO paying millions of dollars to air the show and then bash it, I believe there is a disconnect between the HBO braintrust and the HBO Sports braintrust. The former wants to show MMA, the latter vehemently does not.
As you point out, there would surely be some harsh criticism of the UFC if HBO announcers were installed, and I frankly don’t think mma is ready for that yet. For better or for worse, the UFC is to mma in this country as Xerox is to making copies; the two names are so closely associated that to hurt the image of one would be to hurt the image of the other. Give it time, and as the UFC and mma become more widely accepted via their Spike tv shows, HBO shows with UFC announcers, and continued ppv dominance, and as the IFL and other organizations become more successful (hopefully) the sport will have developed a strong enough foothold so that harsh criticism of its head (UFC) will not hurt its body (mma).
[quote]As for HBO paying millions of dollars to air the show and then bash it, I believe there is a disconnect between the HBO braintrust and the HBO Sports braintrust. The former wants to show MMA, the latter vehemently does not. [/quote]
Then those responsible for a burial risk being fired. The fact is that HBO is willing to televise MMA, in particular, the UFC, however they wish to do it under their terms exclusively, and they have all the cache in the world to demand it. It is through them and them alone that the UFC business model gets to the next level of PPV sales, legitimacy, and viewers. None of the networks can provide what HBO wants, and Dana White knows that. He’s been trying to court the premium networks for so long because of it.
[quote]As you point out, there would surely be some harsh criticism of the UFC if HBO announcers were installed, and I frankly don’t think mma is ready for that yet. For better or for worse, the UFC is to mma in this country as Xerox is to making copies; the two names are so closely associated that to hurt the image of one would be to hurt the image of the other. Give it time, and as the UFC and mma become more widely accepted via their Spike tv shows, HBO shows with UFC announcers, and continued ppv dominance, and as the IFL and other organizations become more successful (hopefully) the sport will have developed a strong enough foothold so that harsh criticism of its head (UFC) will not hurt its body (mma).[/quote]
This is foolish. The continued push of the UFC will only lead to its inevitable corruption and fall from grace. If they believe that they cannot do any better than Spike TV and wish not to risk the possibility of independant scrutiny, then the reality is that Liddell/Ortiz II was probably the limit for them. The future of the sport depends not on whether or not the UFC alone gets pushed in the near and permanent future, but rather that the sport attains the look and feel of a sport, with indepenent sanctioning bodies, promoters, uniform rules, and all the rest. If they turn away from HBO and from independant press now, the damage they may do in the long run could be far harsher than any mention of Fedor Emelianenko, Dan Henderson, or Kid Yamamoto would ever be. The difference between continued evolution and mainstream recognition in that fashion and delaying it in a forced opportunity to hold onto power through branding will be the difference between MMA being a short term fad and being the next NASCAR. And the last thing that they need are second and third promotions. That’s the worst thing possible, in fact. Dividing the titles and offering no chance whatsoever at unification is a awful way to kill the fanbase.
How will they deal with it once ESPN starts doing coverage and talks about how wide a gap in talent some of the matches have? Or when FSN does it? They can’t grow past where they are right now without that sort of coverage. It can’t happen. And if they can’t keep forward momentum, that only leads to stagnation.
“Then those responsible for a burial risk being fired. The fact is that HBO is willing to televise MMA, in particular, the UFC, however they wish to do it under their terms exclusively, and they have all the cache in the world to demand it. It is through them and them alone that the UFC business model gets to the next level of PPV sales, legitimacy, and viewers. None of the networks can provide what HBO wants, and Dana White knows that. He’s been trying to court the premium networks for so long because of it.”
They do risk being fired, but I think they assume that it is a small risk, especially considering that nobody orders HBO for MMA fights. They are calculating that if it doesn’t go over well, that it will be a 1-time deal, and it will be over with no harm done.
As for the UFC getting to the next level of PPV sales, Liddell-Ortiz 2 did around a million buys. Most of there shows are drawing in the mid six figures. After De la Hoya-Mayweather, there aren’t any boxing matches that have the capacity to draw 7 figures, and after De la Hoya retires, drawing 500,000 or 600,000 will be a chore too.
That being said, we agree that HBO gives the UFC some legitimacy that Spike TV doesn’t give them.
“This is foolish. The continued push of the UFC will only lead to its inevitable corruption and fall from grace. If they believe that they cannot do any better than Spike TV and wish not to risk the possibility of independant scrutiny, then the reality is that Liddell/Ortiz II was probably the limit for them. The future of the sport depends not on whether or not the UFC alone gets pushed in the near and permanent future, but rather that the sport attains the look and feel of a sport, with indepenent sanctioning bodies, promoters, uniform rules, and all the rest. If they turn away from HBO and from independant press now, the damage they may do in the long run could be far harsher than any mention of Fedor Emelianenko, Dan Henderson, or Kid Yamamoto would ever be. The difference between continued evolution and mainstream recognition in that fashion and delaying it in a forced opportunity to hold onto power through branding will be the difference between MMA being a short term fad and being the next NASCAR. And the last thing that they need are second and third promotions. That’s the worst thing possible, in fact. Dividing the titles and offering no chance whatsoever at unification is a awful way to kill the fanbase.
How will they deal with it once ESPN starts doing coverage and talks about how wide a gap in talent some of the matches have? Or when FSN does it? They can’t grow past where they are right now without that sort of coverage. It can’t happen. And if they can’t keep forward momentum, that only leads to stagnation. ”
You are contradicting yourself here. You say that having other leagues with other titles would kill the fanbase, but at the same time you are advocating bringing in announcers who would say that the UFC hw champion isn’t the best at 185, isn’t the best at hw, etc etc, which would have the effect of portraying the UFC as second level, which is exactly what MMA in this country is not ready for.
I agree with you that at some point the UFC is going to need to face criticism from mainstream sports media, but I still think that the sport isn’t quite there yet. Perhaps if the UFC signs Fedor, if TUF 5 does extremely strong ratings, and if UFC 70 on Spike TV wins its timeslot amongst cable channels, then we can talk about the sport being closer to “ready” for Larry Merchantesque berating, but there is no reason to rush it yet. As it stands now, mma isn’t stagnating in this country, but instead growing and improving. The UFC is bringing in more international fighters, the sport is gaining more acceptance in mainstream sports websites and newspapers, and gaining new fans every day. Stagnation is not the issue now at all; I guarantee you that boxing wishes its fan base was “stagnating” like the UFC’s fan base is.
They do risk being fired, but I think they assume that it is a small risk, especially considering that nobody orders HBO for MMA fights. They are calculating that if it doesn’t go over well, that it will be a 1-time deal, and it will be over with no harm done.
As for the UFC getting to the next level of PPV sales, Liddell-Ortiz 2 did around a million buys. Most of there shows are drawing in the mid six figures. After De la Hoya-Mayweather, there aren’t any boxing matches that have the capacity to draw 7 figures, and after De la Hoya retires, drawing 500,000 or 600,000 will be a chore too.
Mayweather/Trinidad or De La Hoya/Trinidad II most certainly hold the capability of selling a million buys. As I’ve said before here, Miguel Cotto is a clear future superstar, and a bout with himself and Mayweather is inevitable. Million buy PPVs don’t come along too often. The UFC has had but one. Let’s not make it sound as if Silva/Franklin II will break the box office.
You are contradicting yourself here. You say that having other leagues with other titles would kill the fanbase, but at the same time you are advocating bringing in announcers who would say that the UFC hw champion isn’t the best at 185, isn’t the best at hw, etc etc, which would have the effect of portraying the UFC as second level, which is exactly what MMA in this country is not ready for.
The contradiction only exists if you believe that MMA will always be run by promoter/sanctioning body combinations. It is you who do not understand what I advocate. I want MMA, the sport. You want MMA, the shoot pro wrestling. All this talk on here about PRIDE going under is a waste of time. Its not a bad thing at all. Its necessary for the future progression of the sport. The sooner everyone runs by the NJSACB rules, or something closely approximating it, and the sooner that people stop trying to identify with promotional groups and their bullshit titles, the better.
And criticism of the UFC must happen. Journalists becoming patsies for them and allowing them to put on mismatches or flat out lie about the quality of international fighters will do immensely more damage for the future than anything that saying “Fedor is the best heavyweight” can in the present.
I agree with you that at some point the UFC is going to need to face criticism from mainstream sports media, but I still think that the sport isn’t quite there yet. Perhaps if the UFC signs Fedor, if TUF 5 does extremely strong ratings, and if UFC 70 on Spike TV wins its timeslot amongst cable channels, then we can talk about the sport being closer to “ready†for Larry Merchantesque berating, but there is no reason to rush it yet. As it stands now, mma isn’t stagnating in this country, but instead growing and improving. The UFC is bringing in more international fighters, the sport is gaining more acceptance in mainstream sports websites and newspapers, and gaining new fans every day. Stagnation is not the issue now at all; I guarantee you that boxing wishes its fan base was “stagnating†like the UFC’s fan base is.
Forget boxing for a second. This isn’t about that at all. I know its fun to knock boxing because there isn’t grappling or because its seen as entertainment for old italians and young hispanics, but that’s a red herring, and frankly its stupid to keep bashing it. The UFC IS NOT MMA. It is the most base problem with all of this. Will they grow forever? Not if they keep televising shows like UFC 67, which probably did a lower buyrate than all but one show of their’s in 2006. As they add more coverage, along with it will come the questions, and that will happen almost immediately. Read any of these articles that are put out, and you see references to PRIDE and K-1 right away. The organizations will be the death of the sport if things do not change. You can quote me on it, and we can come back here 3 years later to discuss it.
“Mayweather/Trinidad or De La Hoya/Trinidad II most certainly hold the capability of selling a million buys. As I’ve said before here, Miguel Cotto is a clear future superstar, and a bout with himself and Mayweather is inevitable. Million buy PPVs don’t come along too often. The UFC has had but one. Let’s not make it sound as if Silva/Franklin II will break the box office.”
Trinidad is a has been, and Mayweather says he is retiring after this fight. Cotto is a very good fighter, but there isn’t the same buzz around him as there is/was around De la Hoya or Barrera or Pacman.
Silva/Franklin 2 won’t break the box office, but it will get mid 6 figures in terms of buys. Franklin has been built up quite well, and Silva has been a monster since coming to the UFC. Furthermore, people buy UFC ppvs knowing that they will get a solid undercard of action as well as a high quality main event, which is one of the things that has helped it overtake boxing in ppv revenue.
“The contradiction only exists if you believe that MMA will always be run by promoter/sanctioning body combinations. It is you who do not understand what I advocate. I want MMA, the sport. You want MMA, the shoot pro wrestling. All this talk on here about PRIDE going under is a waste of time. Its not a bad thing at all. Its necessary for the future progression of the sport. The sooner everyone runs by the NJSACB rules, or something closely approximating it, and the sooner that people stop trying to identify with promotional groups and their bullshit titles, the better.
And criticism of the UFC must happen. Journalists becoming patsies for them and allowing them to put on mismatches or flat out lie about the quality of international fighters will do immensely more damage for the future than anything that saying “Fedor is the best heavyweight†can in the present.”
So basically you are advocating a system like boxing’s, where fans have to pay 50 dollars for 1 good fight and a terrible undercard. Who will these sanctioning bodies be? How many will there be? You can be sure that if there is more than one sanctioning body, the titles will get split, and just as in boxing, mma will become disjointed and harder for fans to follow. I guess as a “purist” that appeals to you, but I think it is in mma’s interest if the sport continues to grow, as opposed to splitting apart at the seams.
“Forget boxing for a second. This isn’t about that at all. I know its fun to knock boxing because there isn’t grappling or because its seen as entertainment for old italians and young hispanics, but that’s a red herring, and frankly its stupid to keep bashing it. The UFC IS NOT MMA. It is the most base problem with all of this. Will they grow forever? Not if they keep televising shows like UFC 67, which probably did a lower buyrate than all but one show of their’s in 2006. As they add more coverage, along with it will come the questions, and that will happen almost immediately. Read any of these articles that are put out, and you see references to PRIDE and K-1 right away. The organizations will be the death of the sport if things do not change. You can quote me on it, and we can come back here 3 years later to discuss it.”
The UFC is not mma, nobody is denying that, but without the UFC, nobody in America would know what mma is.
How do you propose making mma what you want it to be? You say you want to get rid of the organizations, but that will basically turn mma into boxing, a sport in terrible disarray because all of the different sanctioning bodies have different champions, the public can’t keep track and has lost interest, and because a more cohesive organization that puts on full cards of fights, as opposed to 1 fight shows, has given people more bang for their buck.
Trinidad is a has been, and Mayweather says he is retiring after this fight. Cotto is a very good fighter, but there isn’t the same buzz around him as there is/was around De la Hoya or Barrera or Pacman.
Silva/Franklin 2 won’t break the box office, but it will get mid 6 figures in terms of buys. Franklin has been built up quite well, and Silva has been a monster since coming to the UFC. Furthermore, people buy UFC ppvs knowing that they will get a solid undercard of action as well as a high quality main event, which is one of the things that has helped it overtake boxing in ppv revenue.
Trinidad was a hasbeen when he fought Mayorga and Winky Wright, and you should look up what numbers those fights did. A second fight with Oscar would be huge, particularly if Oscar beats Mayweather. Hell, same in reverse. Cotto’s not yet been given a PPV worthy opponent. We can talk about how little he means to the Puerto Rican fanbase after he dispatches of Zab Judah this summer. Actually believing that Floyd Mayweather will stay retired at his age, and with bouts against Mosley, Cotto, Trinidad, and so on peering over the horizon? You must be new to the fight game.
As for fronting Rich Franklin as a well built draw, the two PPVs he headlined in 2006 were 2 of the 3 lowest drawing of the year. Anderson Silva is nowhere near an established draw either
So basically you are advocating a system like boxing’s, where fans have to pay 50 dollars for 1 good fight and a terrible undercard. Who will these sanctioning bodies be? How many will there be? You can be sure that if there is more than one sanctioning body, the titles will get split, and just as in boxing, mma will become disjointed and harder for fans to follow. I guess as a “purist†that appeals to you, but I think it is in mma’s interest if the sport continues to grow, as opposed to splitting apart at the seams.
Its already split apart. Anyone who questions that is seriously in denial. There are three large organizations worldwide and numerous smaller ones, all with their own versions of world titles, each one of differing merit. The bigger it grows and the more it expands in the minds of the American public, the more exposure these fighters will attain. Saying that the UFC offers a chance to fight the numerous alphabet titles of boxing when there is absolutely no way whatsoever in your or my lifetime that Dana White will allow his champions to fight for other promotions is lunacy of the highest level. The UFC has a name that bears with it a mark of quality in North America and Europe. They have an advantage the WBC, IBF, and WBA could never hope to have in boxing. But Dana is too interested in being Vince McMahon. It is folly.
As for the argument that the UFC doesn’t already top load the card, I again have nothing to say to you other than to open your eyes. If Huerta/Garcia and Grove/Belcher aren’t the definition of filler, I don’t know what is.