« UFC 68: Road Report | Home | It’s true, it’s damn true »
Tuesday MMA media notes
By Zach Arnold | March 5, 2007
Enson Inoue talks about PRIDE
Lots of content today. See it in full-page view.
- The News & Star (UK): MMA fighter Kevin Thompson called up for BARLA tours this Summer
- The Newark Advocate: Being part of history, seeing UFC two reasons to love job as sports writer
- The North Andover Eagle-Tribune: Boston Red Sox pitcher Rudy Seanez may retire to become professional MMA fighter
- NBC Sports: Fight of a lifetime for Nate Quarry
- Marketwire (PR): Cage Fury FC announces “War on the Shore” in Atlantic City on 4/13
- MMA California: Gladiator Challenger – Headhunters PR
- The Houston Chronicle: Keith Jardine vs. Tito Ortiz fight yet to be sealed
- UFC Mania: Interview with referee Steve Mazzagatti
- Jordan Breen: Models love a man who moisturizes
- UFC Junkie: Official UFC 68 salaries
- Bloody Elbow: Tim Sylvia, the anti-champ
- Jake Rossen: Minute-by-Minute on UFC 68
- Ivan Trembow: UFC’s relationship with HBO continues to evolve
- The Newark Advocate: UFC provides punch – Saturday night was all right for fighting
- C21 Media: Haber combat series takes on UFC
- Variety: Haber pins Fight League abroad
- The Cincinnati Enquirer: Franklin-Silva rematch may be in Cincinnati
- The Boston Globe: Off the beaten path – Sam Sheridan
- The Associated Press: Nevada OK’s boxing match between Dana White & Tito Ortiz
- The Duke Chronicle: Professor brings Jiu-Jitsu to classroom
- Marketwire (PR): The Fight Network signs deal with America One Sports
- MMA Today: Interview with Tito Ortiz
- Radio: Eddie Goldman interviews Randy Couture
Topics: All Topics, Japan, Media, MMA, PRIDE, UFC, Zach Arnold | 37 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
I was just about to post the inoue interview. He doesn’t really seem to know what he’s talking about in terms of the big picture. He does give a cool account of how it is to be a pride fighter though (in terms of the backstage and all that stuff).
You had posted links to Todd Martin’s MMA rankings in the past, so I thought I’d add a link to the latest update of the MMAWeekly Rankings. http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=3543&zoneid=2
If you’re going to rank Couture above Sylvia wouldn’t it also be logical to rank Sokoudjou over Rogerio (which no sane person would do).
Couture ranked above Sylvia, Arlovski, and Werdum = teh ludicrous
Beating the number 5 HW does not make an unranked fighter the #5 HW without any other recent top-10 HW wins.
Coutures win does more for his ranking that Sokoudjou’s did, for several reasons:
1. Couture is a lot more proven in MMA overall. Sokoudjou is virtually unknown.
2. Couture went 25 minutes and was dominating in a very convincing way throughout. Sokoudjou went 30 seconds.
That said, I would reason like this: Sylvias poor performance proved that he should be dropped in the rankings, not only below the man who beat him but also lower still since this performance can be seen as an indicator that he’s not all he’s been claiming to be. So I would drop Sylvia to maybe 9 or 10, and have Couture at 8 or 9, right above him.
Just like mose above, I think Arlovski and Werdum would beat Couture. Not necessarily with easy, but still.
Sorry if this is unrelated but I’ve been wondering, when they look at the buyrates for UFC does that take bars into account in any way? I would imagine that they would have to pay significanltly more to publicly show the fight? I know near me I have to get there at least an hour or two before the fight and the number of bars carrying it has increased.
People have to realize that rankings are based in reality and not speculation. You can’t use the argument that Arlovski could ‘probably’ beat Couture to justify having Arlovski higher in the standings. If Arlovski deserves to be higher he’ll have to beat someone who’s currently higher than him … not too difficult to understand.
As far as Randy ‘deserving’ to be where he is … well, we’ll see if that’s the case over the next 6 months. I’d say it’s not a stretch at all considering his performance vs Sylvia and his history.
On a side note, anyone notice Pride has a lightweight shutout? Interesting considering the UFC’s push last year to really develop the lightweight division. I guess that’s the problem when your lightweight champion is shelved … it kinda stunts the rankings for your org.
Ivan Trembow
Regarding your rankings.
I think you lose a bit of credibility with your rankings having a ‘160lb’s weight class. Why? Every legitimate organization in the world uses 155/154lbs as their lightweight class. Even Shooto and K1 uses it. Pride is the only organization in the world that has a 161lb class.
So why base your rankings on what one fight organization is doing?
I look at your rankings and I see Mach Sakurai, Shinya Aoki and Takanori Gomi being ranked alongside other fighters who DO make the 155lb weight limit. Why? Aren’t you being a little bit fraudulent? It’s not an apples to apples comparison. We have no clue how Gomi, Sakurai or Aoki will perform at 155lbs because they haven’t made that weight in years or if ever.
I imagine you are simply trying to square the circle and makes things easier, but by doing so, you create a messed up rankings. Mach Sakurai can’t even make 161lbs and you have people trying to rank and compare him to guys who DO actually make 155 and compete there. Weighed in under sanctioning governing bodies (NSAC)
Why not just rank Matt Hughes down at 160lbs to? I’m sure he could drop to 164 just as easily as Sakurai.
You get an ‘F’ in terms of your rankings.
The amount that bars pay was publicized last week heading into PRIDE. It was something like half what PRIDE was charging to air their telecast. $500 maybe?
That’s the most inane criticism I’ve ever read about MMA rankings ever, wrestler.
Kev,
Why? Shouldn’t a fighter actually have to make weight at 155lb before being ranked there?
Shouldn’t Mach Sakurai make weight at 161lb first before being ranked with other 155lb’ers?
What’s the basis for using a 161lb class when only one MMA organization in the world uses it?
I think the wrestler is being way too harsh considering who he is talking to (Ivan is one of the best mma journalists out there), but he does have a point about 160 pounds. Please correct me if Im wrong, but didnt Pride basically set up the 160 pound limit as a way of having their Japanese superstars Gomi and Sakurai have an advantage over all of the 155 pounders fighting in Japan? I hope more 170 pounders like Diaz start cutting to Pride’s 160 pound limit and continue to embarrass DSE’s golden boys.
On a completely unrelated note, am I the only one who thinks that there is a legit chance of Dana White beating Tito in a boxing match??? If that happens, how fucking bad would Tito look? If I were running the UFC, I would not release any info or video from their boxing match unless Tito wins convincingly. Anything else looks pathetic; how can your star fighter lose to a pudgy 37 year old promoter who hasn’t had a fight in years?
Rankings are meaningless if they are undefended, which is usually the way they’re presented. If there’s no explanation to accompany rankings, it’s just a set of names next to a set of numbers.
I don’t think anyone could ever truly say what the orginal impetus for Pride using their own weights was. Ignoring what the rest of the world is doing and starting their own thing. What’s kind of strange is they use the 205 and 183 weights (which are close enough ) but then ignore the 170lb class and 155lb….going straight for a 160lbs. A strong case could be made that their two best signed guys there, ‘stars’, are more comfortable in the 160’s and can’t make 155lbs all that well.
No one can read minds, so we’ll probably never know their true intentions.
From what I have read, Pride didn’t even have ‘official’ weigh ins until April 2005. Even then, these weren’t done by a regulatory body (like the NASC), they were simply weigh ins open to the public. There were no rules or penalties for not making weight, a fighter could have as much time as he needs to make it. As far as how much time? Who knows. We saw how DSE handled the Danzig vs Sakurai match. Sakurai never got close to making 161lbs and DSE simply sent a letter out days before telling Danzig he had to ‘take it or leave it’. That doesn’t sound like enforcing weight classes does it? And that’s with a regulatory body, in the US, watching over things.
I maybe be a little harsh, but I think it’s horrible unfair to try and rank fighters like Sherk against guys who don’t have to make the same weight as him.
Somewhat unrelated…but Sherk fought at 170+ for a good while did he not?? So isnt he not exactly the best comparitor in making a case against Sakurai and Gomi? I realize that he in fact DOES cut down to 155, but just saying…
MMA rankings are retarded, especially with guys fighting under different rules. I wish one of the big MMA websites would just come out and say they’re pointless.
Sherk has fought at 155lb in his career. He’s recently made weight at 155lb, per the NSAC. The only reason he didn’t fight there earlier in his career was because:
1. the UFC signed him to fight at 170lbs against Hughes years back.
2. When he came back, there was no 155lb class. As soon as the UFC started that class, Sherk dropped right down to it to compete.
Listen to Sherk speak in interviews. He’ll be the first to say he didnt’ have to cut any weight to make 170lbs.
I agree that the Lightweight rankings are pointless.
I think people have missed the biggest laugh of the entire MMA Weekly Rankings. Jason Lambert is ranked #10, and Rashad Evans is not ranked.
So Rashad Evans DOMINATES Lambert, but because Lambert beats Babalu, he is ranked higher? Makes zero sense. Rashad should be ranked about Babalu AND Lambert right now. The fact that Rashad beat Lambert so recently makes the ranking even more absurd.
I have always thought Lambert was a quality opponent. Obviously, MMA Weekly didn’t think so, because Evans beating him didn’t get him into the Top 10. So they dropped the ball once. And then when Lambert finally proves he is a solid fighter, they drop the ball again by leaving Evans off the Top 10.
This is like the 5th example of recent fight results being thrown to the side for their bias rankings. It is really garbage. The only thing that upsets me is that Sportsline actually uses these rankings. What a joke.
Also, the biggest news story of the day for MMA is Kurt Angle’s name being dragged into the mud by the Steroid Scandal. Sports illustrated has a complete article, and Angle’s name is mentioned.
Why is this big to MMA? This was one of Elite XC’s big tickets to getting the big time attention. They were looking to get Angle to fight for them, and get the big PPV fight. With multiple neck surgeries and now this steroid scandal, Kurt Angle probably will never fight MMA now.
Gaijin, Sherk is like 5’7 … yeah he’s built like a tank but he was always the smallest welterweight in the UFC. Not oh so long ago i was calling him a washout who cut down to LW to escape the welterweight elite. But the truth is that lightweight is the right division for someone his size.
Rankings may be somewhat pointless, but they’re definately better than the 1000s of retardo ‘fantasy fights’ posted in every goddamn mma forum :-p
The idea that PRIDE doesn’t matter is ridiculous, even in its current decrepit state, wrestler. And you dump on the entire rankings because of one measily point that only affects 1/5 of the entire article? I can buy the usual different rules => inaccurate rankings argument but your hyperbole gets the gas face.
Zack, Sherdog has more or less stated that, or at least Josh Gross has, even though they still have that goofy statistical ranking.
Fans love to rank fighters so site rankings will never go away. Its pretty harmless unless people take them more seriously than they should.
See 1977, ABC “American Boxing Championships” tournament, Don King, The Ring magazine rankings & Johnny Ort for an article regarding the consequences of trusting whatever a ranking system offers (especially one where the editor of the rankings is getting ‘special compensation’ from the promoter as in this case.
FL:
I guess my point was that he wasn’t exactly “pulling a Ninja” to fight at 170, but I guess the reality is that he DOES make it down to 155 and that’s where he belongs.
I cant believe i missed that earlier…but the NSAC is a fucking complete joke. Tito Ortiz – a professional fighter vs. Dana White – President of the UFC and former boxercise instructor were sanctioned to a boxing match??? But they had problems with Butterbean vs. Hunt and Fujita vs. Sims etc etc.
Wow…just WOW…talk about being in a company’s back pocket. Credibility, is that you I see spinning down the toilet?
What happens if god forbid Tito LOSES to Dana?? Now THAT would be damaging…
Agreed. It brings back memories of Roddy Piper vs. Mr. T boxing in the first third of Wrestle Mania 2 at the Nassau Coliseum… Oh dear.
In total honesty…Mr. T vs Piper seems more legitimate and understandable. Was that played off at the time as being a legit fight??
Piper vs T was a CLASSIC! Ah the memories….
The NSAC licensing Tito to beat Dana down is some nice fodder for all the folks arguing that the NSAC is in the UFC’s pocket. Come to think of it, I’m almost convinced myself with this new development.
This is only a three round exhibition match and not a real fight, but the chance for White to get KTFO is still pretty high I think. Unless they work the whole thing.
If this fight between Dana and Tito was worked, would the NSAC care and/or do anything about it? What are the expectations or rules around exhibition boxing matches? Don’t know much about that.
Thanks to everyone for the feedback regarding the MMAWeekly Rankings. I wanted to address the specific question of the weight classes.
When the MMAWeekly Rankings were founded, it was decided that the weight classes should be as concise as possible rather than spreading out every single variation of five pounds or less that the various MMA promotions in the world have.
If we were to truly rank every weight class in every promotion, the rankings would be a jumbled mess, as you’d have the super heavyweight rankings for fighters who fight above 265 pounds regardless of whether their opponents are also over 265 pounds, a heavyweight division with a 265-pound weight limit, light heavyweight a division with a 205-pound limit, a middleweight division with a 185-pound limit because that’s what it is in the US, a middleweight division with a 183-pound limit because that’s what it is in Pride, a welterweight division with a 170-pound division because that’s what it is in the US, a welterweight division with a 167-pound limit because that’s what it is in many Japanese organizations such as Shooto, a lightweight division with a 160-pound limit because that’s what it is in Pride, a lightweight division with a 155-pound limit because that’s what it is in the US, and a lightweight division with a 154-pound limit because that’s what it is in Hero’s and some other Japanese MMA organizations.
That’s ten different weight classes. Having ten different top ten lists would make the rankings a jumbled mess, with variations all over the place of just 5, 3, 2, and 1 pound(s).
Instead, we decided to consolidate things by saying that all fighters over 205 pounds are given equal consideration in the heavyweight division, all fighters who fight at 205 pounds are given equal consideration in the light heavyweight division, all fighters who fight above 170 pounds but no more than 185 pounds are given equal consideration in the middleweight division (including Pride’s 183-pounders), all fighters who fight above 160 pounds but no more than 170 pounds are given equal consideration in the welterweight division, and all fighters who fight at 160 or less are given equal consideration in the lightweight division (including the UFC’s 155-pounders and K-1’s 154-pounders).
Regarding Sean Sherk in particular, the fact that he fights at 155 pounds and not 160 pounds had nothing to do with our deliberations and votes for where he should be ranked at lightweight. In Sherk’s case, he has had one fight at lightweight and it was against Kenny Florian, who would not be on most people’s top twenty list at lightweight (no disrespect to Florian). Sherk’s first fight against a very highly regarded lightweight will be against Hermes Franca on July 7th. A fighter not being in the top ten does not mean that we think he’s a horrible fighter or anything like that; it merely means that he has not proven himself in our eyes to be one of the ten best in the entire world.
Also, to everyone who believes that the Ortiz-White match will be a mismatch in favor of Ortiz, the UFC apparently believes the exact opposite. Excerpt from MMAWeekly’s article on the NSAC hearing (http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=3542):
“At one point, when Dr. Avansino was saying that he couldn’t justify voting in favor of granting White a license to fight Ortiz because he felt it was a mismatch in favor of Ortiz, Hendrick said that if anything it would be a mismatch in favor of White. Hendrick said to the athletic commission that White used to “dominate” Ortiz when they would spar together.”
No disrespect Ivan, but the UFC has made it their calling to find ways to sell the underdogs in their matches. It is not hard to believe they would try to sell the underdog, seemingly Dana, in this case as well.
That said, I have not seen Dana box and neither have many other people. So maybe we are all in for a big surprise.
Hi Armen. I wasn’t saying that I necessarily agree with what the UFC said, I was just repeating the fact that the UFC said at the Nevada State Athletic Commission that White used to “dominate” Ortiz and that it was a mismatch in favor of Ortiz.
Another notable excerpt:
“UFC Chief Operating Officer Kirk Hendrick also spoke on behalf of White, saying that he really has been training for this and is taking it seriously. “This is not WWE wrestling. This is not Vince McMahon getting in the ring. We’re taking this seriously,†said Hendrick, addressing another concern of Avansino’s that this was some sort of “publicity event.—
They said Dana would weigh-in at 196 and Ortiz 205, but come fight night Ortiz will probably outweigh Dana by a good 20 pounds.
I give Dana White a 35 percent shot at beating Tito.
Tito doesn’t like getting hit, he isn’t a particularly good boxer, but he is much younger, faster, stronger, and in better shape than Dana. If this were an 8 round fight, I would definitely pick Tito, but Dana probably won’t gas in 3 rounds.
As I wrote way earlier in this thread, what happens if Dana wins??? It would completely discredit Tito. It would be like Sakakiraba beating Gomi in an amateur wrestling match…
eh, boxing is a different beast … people who think boxing is easy get tooled on a regular basis. And there’s a juge difference between general striking ability and the ability to box. Since Dana White actually spent several years as an amateur boxer, I’d say he has the advantage going into this.
Yeah but these days every mma fighter trains boxing at some certain level of competence in training for fights. To say that Dana White who is near 40 and “used to be an amateur boxer” should realistically stand a chance fighting Tito Ortiz, a 32 yr old highly trained professional fighter and say that it will be safe is outrageous. I’ve seen a lot of “amateur boxing” and trust me it definately runs a gamut of “talent”. Basically anyone who’s taken part in any exhibition fights or trained at a gym and fout a few bouts that were not for money can lay claim to being a “former amateur” boxer.
There’s really absolutely no logical reason for the NSAC to allow this fight, other than the fact that the UFC wants the fight and the NSAC and UFC are in bed together. And quite frankly I really dont see what the reasoning behind the UFC having their #2 recognizable LHW and “world talent” fighting the boss – other than b/c Dana thinks he’s Vince McMahon and is on another ego trip.
This is one of those situations where someone is being so smug about their standing that you almost pray that it ends up being a total disaster.