« Randy Couture is back (somewhat) | Home | UFC 65 Sacramento card line-up »
The Echo Chamber
By Zach Arnold | October 23, 2006
By Zach Arnold
I realize that by writing this article, it is going to draw significant heat with a lot of PRIDE fans. I accept that premise going into this. However, this article has to be written because a few things need to be pointed out about PRIDE’s Las Vegas event that haven’t been mentioned online.
Update: Nikkan Sports has an article which quotes PRIDE management as hinting that they are in negotiations to get a TV deal for their New Year’s Eve show. Sakakibara is claiming that he is talking with “two or more TV stations.” He claims a conclusive answer will be issued on November 10th.
One of the things about Fight Opinion that makes it a unique site is that about half of the articles cover the Japanese fight scene. My roots in covering the Japanese fight scene (primarily with professional wrestling) started in the 1990s. This was the Golden Era of professional wrestling in Japan, a time when MMA was barely starting. UWF-International, labeled professional wrestling, was the closest thing to MMA (along with the smaller Pancrase). In 1995, New Japan Pro Wrestling, Japan’s largest professional wrestling company, killed off UWF-International (which was led by Nobuhiko Takada). The feud was a result of a failed political campaign by Takada that lost significant money. Only Takada came out of the interpromotional war unscathed.
Rising from the death of UWF-International was PRIDE. I watched their very first show, promoted under the KRS banner. I understood why Takada vs. Rickson Gracie was such a big program. I appreciate history a lot, so reminiscing about older memories of the Japanese fight scene is a pleasant experience. It may be the same for you, too. You may know the Japanese language or like anime, or just like Japanese culture in general. Because we may share similar interests or at least common bonds with being a fan of the Japanese fight scene, we often hang out on the Internet in a virtual echo chamber. A segmented world online in which those who like the Japanese fight scene hang out on a few sites, but not on the mainstream areas. There is the Internet. There are communities. There is the fight game. There is MMA. There is Japan. And then there are the various groups (PRIDE, K-1, etc.) and the fans of them.
When you look at the segmentation that occurs online as far as audiences for different sites, you can understand clearly why PRIDE or K-1, which draw big business in Japan, do not get talked about in larger circles. It’s a foreign product. It’s a product in a different language. There are different promoting values. There is a different mindset. There are other factors that should be talked about but usually aren’t (such as organized crime). It’s a different world.
Therefore, it should come as no surprise that PRIDE’s first show in Las Vegas did not draw the media attention that many in the Japanese fight community online thought it would. PRIDE is a Japanese product with roots in professional wrestling. Roots in the Japanese language. Roots in scandals. It’s so vastly different than what UFC or any other fight promotion represents.
The mistake that PRIDE fans make in assuming that PRIDE will automatically get over with foreign audiences is that because something is different than the current standard (UFC), it will automatically be popular.
That simply isn’t the case. And it never will be.
PRIDE drew 11,727 at the Thomas & Mack Center on October 21st, powered by Ed Fishman’s casino money and connections. Las Vegas is the right destination for them, considering the image that Vegas has with the Japanese as the entertainment capital of the world. Gambling money is also similar to what the Japanese know and understand with pachinko (and of course, from there, there is that “y” word that can always be mentioned when talking about Japanese gaming).
The crowd that showed up for PRIDE is not a typical mainstream fight crowd. It was a crowd that, rudely put, was dominated by PRIDE otakus. The hardest of the hardcore fans. The type of fans that would travel from other destinations to go see PRIDE live.
Unquestionably, PRIDE did financially better on the 10/21 show than most prognosticators would have expected. The question that has to be asked, however, is this: Are the same fans who went to Las Vegas from Kansas, South Carolina, Alabama, New York, Canada, and Japan going to go consistently to future PRIDE shows in America?
The answer is likely no. And this presents a future problem for the company. PRIDE faces the daunting challenge of making new fans while in the process catering to hardcore fans to stay financially stable. One of the keys to creating new fans is attracting mainstream media attention. Another is by having a weekly or monthly television show that attracts a lot of eyeballs. A third method is a heavy advertising campaign.
In regards to PRIDE’s US television deal, they are on Fox Sports Net. Fox Sports Net does not garner the same attention as a network like ESPN or Spike TV does.
In regards to a heavy advertising campaign, PRIDE may have paid for billboards in Los Angeles and other cities. However, billboard advertising is an “all show and no go” proposition as far as trying to promote a product that is being displayed in another city. There were not many ads for the PRIDE event on national American television. If you didn’t have the Internet and weren’t an MMA fan with a peripheral view about what PRIDE was, you didn’t know that they had a show in Las Vegas on October 21st.
Then there is the issue of mainstream media attention. One of the brilliant tactics that Dana White & UFC have employed is working with the various boxing and fight writers in all the national newspapers and media outlets in Canada and America. Every single UFC show attracts writers from the Miami Herald, the Boston Globe, the Washington Post, the Long Beach-Press Telegram, and sometimes the LA Times. Plus Neil Davidson from the Canadian Press. These are blue-chip media outlets that have a large reach. It’s an amazing scope of mainstream coverage.
For PRIDE’s October 21st show, the show did not attract much, if any, mainstream media coverage at all. You had the usual contingent of Japanese writers that go to every Japanese show in foreign countries (i.e. K-1 events). You had the local Las Vegas beat writers (Jeff Haney and Kevin Iole). And you had the hardcore MMA web sites (like Sherdog). However, nobody from major national blue-chip media outlets covered the PRIDE event. Not having a large scale of media coverage makes it very difficult to attract and create new fans.
For those of us who know what PRIDE is, know their fighters, and know their schedule, Saturday’s show was considered a “big event.” However, for the average American at home that is a casual Internet user and watches television, they had no idea that PRIDE had a show. Without mainstream media coverage, very few knew about PRIDE’s debut in the United States.
Outside of the mainstream media, there are the blogs. The Internet media. Outside of the hardcore MMA sites, the big question would be whether or not the PRIDE show would attract the attention of your casual MMA fans online. There is a difference between people who show up to read Fight Opinion and someone who blogs about Chuck Liddell on their MySpace account. One of the best ways to determine what kind of interest there is from a casual online audience about a topic is to go to Technorati.com, which indexes over 55 million blogs online. These include MySpace, LiveJournal, BlogSpot, WordPress, and B2Evolution sites. Everything and anything in between.
Usually when you go on Technorati before and after a UFC event, you can see that there is a buzz generated by the promotion with casual fans. Type in UFC before an upcoming event and you will definitely see the impact. So before and after the PRIDE Las Vegas show, I decided to do several searches for PRIDE (in combination with other key words such as Vegas) to see what kind of casual attention the PRIDE event was drawing. The answer? Outside of our site (which is indexed on Technorati), there were only maybe 7-10 entries on the entire indexing system in relation to the PRIDE Las Vegas event. Compare that with the hundreds, if not a couple of thousand entries that UFC gets after each big show, and the contrast/comparison could not be any more dramatic.
The largest issue for PRIDE is getting coverage from both the mainstream media and from the blogs. Once they get the media attention, the next step is trying to convert those fans into becoming PRIDE supporters.
If the debut show is a test case, then call it a minor failure.
Both Las Vegas beat writers, Jeff Haney and Kevin Iole, were less than impressed with the event. Both Haney and Iole are legitimate fight writers. They know the industries and the Vegas scene very well. They are not pushovers. Former Boston Globe writer and current FoxSports.com editor Dave Doyle called the PRIDE show a glorified “Superstars of Wrestling” taping. Neil Davidson played his coverage of the PRIDE event straight in the Canadian Press. Outside of those writers, that was it for mainstream media coverage. There was nobody else covering it on a significant level. If the blogs weren’t covering the show and the mainstream media wasn’t covering it, and those from the media that did cover it who were new to PRIDE and weren’t sold on the product, then there are some big issues that PRIDE has to address.
The echo chamber on the Internet for the PRIDE show is misleading. There are those who are diehard PRIDE fans and media writers who desparately want to see competition for UFC. Some of them have a financial stake in pushing PRIDE. In the case of the pro-wrestling media, they see PRIDE’s debut show as a chance to try to frame PRIDE and UFC into a similar war as the WWF & WCW had in the 1990s (the “Monday Night Wars.”) Of course, each of those shows drew 6 million viewers a week. UFC would kill to have 6 million viewers watching their product, and PRIDE would kill to have 60,000 PPV buys in the US. In actuality, the majority of casual male fight fans in America see a three-way competition between UFC & boxing & WWE. PRIDE doesn’t enter the equation, and it won’t unless things change dramatically.
A major issue that PRIDE has to deal with is this: What kind of audience do they want to attract? In the Japanese marketplace, they can afford and thrive on marketing to a hardcore audience. Japan is a small country (in comparison to America) with an interconnected transportation system. It’s easy to market a show in Japan and draw a respectable crowd. That’s not the case in America. America is a big country that is spread out. PRIDE may have a lot of hardcore fans, but those hardcore fans are spread out throughout the country. They can’t simply travel to every Las Vegas show. This poses a problem for PRIDE. Do they relegate themselves on being the Ring of Honor of MMA, or can they find ways to expand their audience on a larger scale?
Even if PRIDE decides to try to expand their audience on a larger scale, the question is will Americans accept the PRIDE product? Will they deem it too Japanese? Will they deem it as a wannabe UFC, even if PRIDE historically has had the better fighters? In the case of the Las Vegas beat writers, despite the high-level production values that PRIDE displayed at the Thomas & Mack Center, they were not sold on the event overall. Haney & Iole have seen big-level UFC & boxing events in the past. They weren’t burying PRIDE just to bury PRIDE. When you can’t win over writers with a large readership, it can be a problem.
It’s a lot easier to win over a small readership that finds itself in a virtual echo chamber.
There is an analogy to be made about PRIDE’s entry in the American market place that has not been raised online, yet. I will make that analogy on this week’s Fight Opinion Radio show, and I hope you join us this week in listening to our latest radio show. Please feel free to e-mail us any questions or comments that you would like us to discuss on the radio show by sending us an e-mail at [email protected].
Topics: All Topics, Media, MMA, PRIDE, Zach Arnold | 57 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
Very good article and it is true. The American media won’t accept PRIDE unless it’s American. They MIGHT do a little better in Canada where it’s more multicultured. And if they do better it will only be by a little.
They’re better off focusing on Korea for live show expansions. At least they can get a better live gate.
Dont agree at all, the fans that showed up to pride as dave said wanted the japanese style show. If pride looses its identity and tries to become americanized, it will just be another ifl or wfa. The international appeal is what sets pride apart. It was almost good die hard fans showed up because they made the fighters look like stars and new who they were, if pride can draw 10 000 die hard fans regularly, they already have to be considered a marginal success, nobody except zach apperantly was expecting a ufc mainstream reaction.
I dont know what zach expected, I think it was clear from when silva was in ufc, fans dont know what pride is, this is obvious, but on that show silva was a star, I consider the press coverage and attendance numbers (that may be the biggest mma gate in vegas, which zach fails to mention cause he hates pride), also this was there first show, I dont know what zach expected, but I think thats why most fans and online writers considered it a success. I was worried a 4000 attendance like k-1. You cant compare pride first show in the u.s. and then expect it to be like ufc here, comparing to k-1, it was a huge sucess. Especially with the gate.
The online media reaction zach you need to look at again, those las vegas reviews were not as negative as you stated, they were dissapointed with some of the fights, but pointed out the production was great. Those were honhestly the only negative reactions I heard.
Fans wouldnt think you have such a hatred for pride, if you spent time annalyzing k-1 failures in america, but all we hear is you spewing about pride.
If pride can keep drawing 10000 die hard fans to there show, as I said they already have to consider this a marginal sucess, with the way tickets were priced, and because alot of die hards showed up, the show itself came off much better, everyone looked like stars, even nakamura. I think it was also clear that the fans did not want an americanized product when they cheered the foreigners. I think its already clear, with prides die hard fans, pride can survive somewhat in america, as a niche product. If it does not gain mainstream exposure. But as meltzer also said, who expects mainstream reaction for pride, until they get tv, I know ufc didnt get mainstream until tuf, so I dont know what zach expected, but clearly hes drawing off his pride negativity.
Wonderful article. I couldn’t have said it better myself. Everything I wanted to say, plus more. I personally believe that the UFC & Pride are basically equal. Different, but equal. It sickens me to see some fans bash the UFC for things such as fighter pay, PPV downtime, & level of competition. Yet Pride shows these same exact faults, and the Pride fans make excuses for it. Neither organization is perfect. Both are great to watch when it comes down to it.
And fans are fooling themselves if they think Pride can honestly survive (without losing money) in America without a legit television contract. It has never happened for a long period of time in the sports history. I doubt it will happen now.
Shaolin,
It was the 6th biggest MMA show in Vegas. Zach was not bias, he likely knew this.
Wow! Zack you make absolutely no sense whatsoever. You have your own delusional perception of what the American audience wants. You sound like a politician, you have actually insulted the American audience.
Pride markets toward a global audience not towards the Japanese only. What your saying is Pride is too “Japanese” for the American audience to embrace? So in essence what is “American”?
From your article it sounds like your saying the UFC is giving the American audience what they want. Now it does not take a rocket science to know that is completely wrong. If poor reviews and constant booing at UFC live events say they are doing something right, then you need some help Mr. Arnold.
You are basically stereotyping the American audience. Your saying they embrace death metal rock music to every fighter entrance, tattoo covered fighters. Fighter celebration where they dig imaginary graves.
Pride on the other hand has done quite the opposite, and from watching “The Real Deal†this past weekend 11,000 American fans loved every second of the show they witnessed live. Not only were they not booing the fighters they were cheering foreign fighters. Now from that alone they are doing something right and I honestly believe this what the American have been waiting for. And it only grow from here on.
Pride sent its fans home happy and that’s the definition of success in my book. Two beat writers that hardly anyone cares about pissing on it and a lack of blog traffic aren’t especially dire concerns—and I think definitely grasping at straws.
Especially, when you consider that a significant portion of Pride’s audience was in Las Vegas for the weekend and probably flying back to America or making a weekend (If not vacation) out of Vegas. I did. And if I had a blog I can’t imagine wanting to write up the event on blog at 3 in the morning after a flight back.
11,000+ people were interested enough to come to the show, a significant portion of them actually flying or driving out to see it. And that is far more impressive and demonstrative of success than more people blogging about the UFC after one of its events or whatever.
Especially, when you consider the power of word of mouth: My taxi driver was a UFC fan and said he was surprised how busy it was and speculated that the Pride show was the cause. I agreed and explained that’s why I’d come and he asked me about and I gushed. By the end of the ride, he was asking me about ticket prices and how the seats were for what I’d paid. Heh. Also, some guys sitting behind me brought their girlfriends and during the middle of the show, they both agreed that this was “way better” than the UFC.
I don’t know how it came across on tv with the commentators or whatever but it was so awesome being there live and a part of the crowd. Fedor is so over it’s ridiculous, everytime his face appeared on the screen before the show he got a pop from the crowd. Silva was insanely over too, the crowd went nuts for Chuck Norris but went into overdrive for Silva.
Since Pride didn’t blow their load (As far as top level talent goes) and still have a headlining show with Silva, I think their next event will be successful as well. Possibly, more successful given the power of word of mouth and that the people that didn’t want to go to an event that they were only peripherally aware of will be chastized for missing out. I don’t think they could run shows every month out of America but they’re not doing that and America isn’t the only market they’re interested in expanding into.
By the way, this event had to have gone a long way toward putting a band-aid on any financial woes they might have been experiencing. Aside from the tickets sold and the price of them, they were cleaned out of merchandise. The line for the merchandise booths was sick—and I got to the event over an hour early. When I tried to buy one during intermission, they were gone. All they had were some bobble-head dolls and beanies which people were still buying.
Anyway, no heat from me. I’m still on way too much of a high from seeing Pride in Amecia to be brought down by any predictions of doom and gloom.
Right. Which is why when the company was in trouble and had its first non-Fuji TV show on 7/1 that they decided on a main event of Hidehiko Yoshida vs. Mirko Cro Cop at Saitama Super Arena.
Because, you know, Yoshida isn’t Japanese or anything like that. Must have been his status as #1 contender or something.
I raised the issue that PRIDE’s presentation of their event in Las Vegas was a reflection of what their core product is, which is Japanese. Considering that I’m a Japanese wrestling fan and writer, I would say that their product appeals heavily towards someone like me. I’m also not the casual, mainstream American fan. The casual American fan isn’t reading 15-20 Japanese web sites a day.
PRIDE decided that what the hardcore fans wanted in Las Vegas was a Japanese presentation, not purely an Americanized product. This really is no different than what Ring of Honor has done with KENTA, Marufuji, and the rest of Japan’s NOAH roster in America. The hardcore fans show up to see Japanese stars live that they normally wouldn’t see, but that’s the extent of the crowd size.
Defining “American” is not something that you can box into a certain stereotype. What it is, however, is not what was presented at the PRIDE event. They gave you the Japanese personalities. They gave you the Japanese presentation. That’s not a knock, it just is what it is.
I’ll bring up an example of something “foreign” that is popular all over the world that doesn’t end up mainstream in America. Soccer (or futbol as everyone else calls it). If Wayne Rooney showed up in Japan, he would be mobbed by fans. If he showed up in Singapore, he would be mobbed. If he showed up in America, very few people would give a damn.
Same thing with Ian Thorpe, the famous Australian swimmer. He could show up in any other country and attract an audience right away. In America? It would be very limited.
That is what I am getting at with the larger context here of what PRIDE is facing as far as a marketing challenge right now.
Every single business statistic for them is climbing. TV ratings, PPV buyrates, live gates. Their business is a pure growth business right now. If they were a stock on the NYSE, their value would be skyrocketing.
I’m not personally or subjectively saying their product is the greatest thing since sliced bread. However, right now a lot of customers think it’s pretty damn solid and are willing to pay for it.
This, right here, is exactly what I am talking about when I refer to the “Echo Chamber.” This is the kind of opinion that is bounced around by the hardest of the hardcore fans on sites and forums that attract a very small audience (compared to other subjects online), where everyone agrees with each other and shares the same opinion & viewpoint.
I found your points pretty interesting and most likely dead on accurate. However, don’t you think this kind of commentary should be saved for just before or after the second US PRIDE event? It seems to me that all of these hurdles you discuss are things that PRIDE needs to begin setting in motion at this point. UFC did not have the status it does now after its first event (and for all American fans know or care – this is the first PRIDE event).
I think that this is a process that they will tackle over the next 5 or 6 US PRIDE events (at the rate they are going – we are looking at 2-3 years here) if they can sustain having them. UFC has to make successful shows in the US because this is the only place they have events now, but PRIDE is looking to expand outside their base country. This first US PRIDE event should be looked at as just a toe testing the American waters – what they found was an unexpectedly large hardcore fan base to build on. That is more than most MMA promoters have to go on.
Now though, they should heed the hurdles you lay forth here. Now is the time when they need to start reaching out to media, need to be having backroom deals with US cable channels, now they need to divert a little more of their budget to promoting the next US event. These are difficult hurdles to be sure, but it seems like you are saying that they have failed at them before they have even really begun to tackle them. So, as i said at the beginning of this comment – i think your article would be more suited to just before or after their 2nd US event – when we can see what kind of progress they have made AFTER this first test to see if there is even a chance of taking root in the US.
If this first US PRIDE event is properly looked at as a first event, and as a testing of the water, then i think it is a success. Now they have to start expanding and making their brand known. The second event needs to have REAL match ups that prove to be exciting. Even if they begin to tackle the marketing hurdles and set up better matches, i predict a slightly lower attendence for the second event (this goes back to your comment about fans in the US being spread out, and maybe willing to go all the way to Vegas for a first event, but not regularly). I hope this won’t discourage them though because i think it should be expected and to be part of the building process that simply cannot happen overnight, and should not have really been begun in earnest before this first event happened anyway.
Anyway – just my opinion and i am new to MMA i guess, so maybe i don’t know what i am talking about, hah!
Yeah Richard, the only guy that got any heat during the show was Baroni and he was getting it before the show started. People were cheering Fedor’s image and booing his mercilessly. However, he turned it around with his performance and promo after the fight.
But there were some moderate boos during Natsula versus Barnett when Natsula was trying to take him down. However, somebody had a trumpet or something and did that war charge call thing and we all yelled charge when Natsula was trying to takedown Barnett. So that made it fun. But Barnetted also ended up getting a huge pop when he busted out the ankle lock.
The foreign fighters were mega-over. All of the Japanese guys got tons of love and there were dueling Vitor and Hendo chants in the early part of the fight!
It was awesome though and I can’t wait until Februrary.
Those two beat writers work for the two newspapers in the town that the event was carried in. Those writers have a good reach to the people in their local community.
They also happened to be the only mainstream writers covering the event. The casual blogs and hardcore blogs (as indexed on Technorati) did not discuss this show a lot.
And that, right there, is emphasizing the point that I made in my article. At the end of your reply, you said:
My article isn’t gloom and doom. It’s trying to take a big-picture perspective of what the show did and did not represent.
I am glad you enjoyed the show.
I think the numbers UFC are drawing are more demonstraive of an increase of interest in MMA than the UFC. The UFC is simply the only available means of regularly seeing MMA in the US, unless you want to put out a great deal of effort. If one had the choice between a UFC event with all of the crowd boos or an event like this were the crowd is eating it up and a bunch of exciting finishes than people would choose this. For whatever reason, a network hasn’t picked up on the growing popularity of MMA but if they do and put on Pride an organization of similar caliber than the UFC would be in trouble.
The Pride show wasn’t American or Japanese, it was a Pride show and that’s what all of us wanted, so it was smart of them to deliver it. I sure as heck didn’t want to shell out a bunch of money to see Pride in the US and than have a watered down over-glorified UFC show because I’m an American and that’s what Americans like, I wanted Pride and that’s what I got. Money well spent.
I wrote this article because I wanted to put into perspective what the first show did and did not represent. There were a lot of people who were very quick to try to raise the significance of it and not discuss what the big picture was. I agree with you – if PRIDE wants to be a serious player in the American marketplace, they have a long process to go through. However, if you went on the various hardcore MMA sites, you likely got the impression that the PRIDE show was the biggest deal in the world and that UFC was doomed. (If you don’t believe, go read the major forums on the MMA sites.)
One of the questions I indirectly raise is whether or not this debut show in Las Vegas could actually be their peak, that the hardcore fans may or may not be able to attend all 5 or 6 Las Vegas shows in a year. That’s the plan right now (according to Sakakibara). If they run that many shows, it is going to put a lot of pressure on the staff to maintain the success they achieved with the first event.
I don’t think it was really an emphasis of your point, as it demonstrates how hardcore Pride fans are. How many people would got to a UFC event in Japan—didn’t they already try that? I don’t think even the biggest Pride fans believe that there are a hundred thousand fans in the country just waiting for an opportunity to see it. The show is hardly show in America and it’s presentation of FSN leaves a lot to be desired. The fansbase here is small but hardcore with the potential for it to expand with exposure because it rules.
The Las Vegas Review Journal is not a national newspaper, it’s a rinky dink local paper that I didn’t even know existed until last week and that is their big paper, I can’t even remember the name of the other one. There were far more of the pornographic newstand devices than there were LVRJ ones. I think that speaks volumes about the market there and what people think of it. And given the hit piece that you linked to prior to the Pride event show, I’m hardly shocked that a local Vegas newspaper didn’t agree with the over 11,000 people who went home happy from the show.
Pride also doesn’t need to rely soley on a local audience as people are willing to come out from all over and see a Pride event in America.
Your logic is flawed Zach. In the following sentence you made a broad assumption that is central to your argument, with absolutely no evidence or logic to back it up.
“Are the same fans who went to Las Vegas from Kansas, South Carolina, Alabama, New York, Canada, and Japan going to go consistently to future PRIDE shows in America? The answer is likely no.”
Why not? How do you know?? I dont know because you provide no explanation. First of all, I know that your argument is that Pride’s American success will suffer partly due the lack of mainstream (positive) media coverage. That I understand, but you also are saying that this (and the spread out fanbase) will hurt Pride’s live gate numbers. After an 11000+ paid gate debut for Pride, jumping to this conclusion with no logical argument whatsoever is ludicrous.
UFC does 85% of its shows in Vegas, do you think that everyone that goes to these shows is from Vegas?? Of course not. Any fight in Vegas is going to be made up of a mixed crowd. Your argument that the Pride fanbase is so spread out that they wont consistently go to shows in Vegas is baseless. Who has been consistently going to shows in UFC shows for the past 3-5 years?? Who broke the gate record at the Strikeforce show? Who goes to all the local shows around America? MMA fans, thats who, not necessarily UFC or Pride fans. UFC might have more at home viewers, but ultimately people who go to a fight event are always going to be more “hardcore” fans. If 11000 people went to this Pride show, who are you to declare that 11000 people wont go to the next Pride show? especially if its an even better card? I will tell you that it certainly wasnt mainstream press that got those 11000 fans there. It wasnt mainstream press that made them fans of the various foreign and american fighters on the card. And it wont be mainstream press that gets another 11000 fans there in february. It is the quality of the fights and the top name fighters in the world.
I can tell you that all of the “hardcore” fans that went to that show were not dissappointed in the skill and action that was shown. I think that plenty of those fans will go back and plenty of fans who didnt make the trip will make it there next time. I see absolutely no reason why they wont. Were those all of the 11000 MMA fans out there who went to that show? Notice I say, “MMA fans”, not “Pride fans.” Which leads me to my next point.
Now here is where I’m going to analyze you Zach. Your background in Pro wreslting (which you are still largely wrapped up in) makes you look at the fight game through pro-wrestling-colored glasses. Plenty of the rivalries in pro wrestling were (and are) real, business-wise, but to the fans, they were more for show. In the days of WWF vs. WCW, was there any evidence that all the fans that gave both shows great ratings werent watching both? I dont think so. And just like MMA, there is absolutely no reason to think that the people who watch UFC will not watch Pride, or go to a live show for that matter. You assume that UFC and Pride have distinct fan bases that cannot overlap, like wrestlers with contracts to their organizations. Well thats just not how it is. In MMA, its the fighters that make the fights, not the organization.
UFC has benefited from mainstream attention, but most of the MMA fans that have kept MMA alive in America for the past 13 years (and who did so completely without mainstream coverage), are aware of the larger world of MMA out there. And whether or not its those fans or others that go to Pride shows, I see no reason why they will not continue to go.
You cite mainstream writers who are clearly biased and display an obvious lack of knowledge of the sport of MMA. Either that or they are simply hypocrits. These guys criticize Butterbean and the Pride production, but I dont see any of them pointing out that UFC is passing off TUF fighters as world class and dangerously mismatching them on PPV with the few actual top fighters UFC has. Or the fact that Dana White is a bumbling, cursing idiot who lacks any semblance of professionalism, or that Bruce Buffer is the completely talentless joke of a brother of an actual ring announcer. The fact of the matter is, these “mainstream” writers dont even know that TUF fighters are B and C class!! They dont know that Pride represents the most professional level of mixed martial arts, both in business and fighers. They have falsely been led to believe, like alot of people, that UFC actually represents the top of the MMA world. I know that your point is that this bad press will hurt Pride, but I dont see how you can make such a huge judgement call about Pride’s success after just one show and one round of bad journalism.
You describe the Pride fanbase as if it is a stagnant, infinitesimally small group. The fact is that you have no idea how big it is. Or how big the “hardcore” fan base is. Or how many fans who to go UFC live shows are “mainstream” or “hardcore.” How many are “UFC fans” or just “MMA fans.” You simply want to jump to the conclusion that Pride will fail, because you always seem to want to come to that conclusion. With that said, Pride very well might fail. But to make such a huge, sweeping argument after a single show (and all-told, a relatively successful one at that) about the future of Pride in the US, really shows your ulterior motives. As it turns out, you might be right. But citing crappy journalists (who probably dont even cater to the prime demographic anyway) and baseless claims about the “Pride fanbase” is unconvincing. To me at least.
Ahh – i see, well I guess I will have to side with you and not with hardcore MMA sites. I think think they have a long road ahead to compete successfully with an already entrenched organisation, though i don’t see why they should not both be able to prosper eventually, given the rise the sport is on.
I hadn’t heard, however, that they plan to have 5 or 6 American shows in the next year. I hope they are planning for the amount they will need to spend to get the kind of attendance this first event generated.
To be honest – i really hope that someone in the PRIDE organization reads your article, because i think it really succinctly lays out what needs to be done. Who knows if the people (Ed Fishman i guess?) really know what it is going to take…
Unless every single hardcore fan that showed up for the PRIDE event was a huge and giant money mark (and if you are, send me an e-mail), these fans who came to Vegas from all over the world simply cannot do it if PRIDE runs an aggressive schedule in America. It costs money – travel, tickets, lodging, etc. This is why PRIDE cannot rely on a purely hardcore fan base for live attendance at shows in America. They have to change their audience demographics if they want to survive and to be able to expand their event calendar here. If they can do that, then God bless them. That’s the challenge they face. Attacting new and casual MMA fans away from the “echo chamber.”
We found that answer out pretty quickly after WWE bought out the assets of WCW from Time Warner.
Those WCW fans never came back to watch WWE. WCW attracted an original audience for the most part. Most of them didn’t want to see a WWE-style product. When WWE bought out WCW and tried their failed interpromotional feud, the WCW audience that was lost didn’t appear in the ratings.
Look at the scenario now for WWE. If you measure WWF and WCW each drawing 6 million viewers, that’s a combined audience of 12 million. RAW right now attracts approximately 4 million viewers. That means after WCW went out of business, WWE’s audience size in 2006 compared to the combined WWF/WCW audience size during the Monday Night Wars is 33% of its original peak audience size.
Are there people who drink Coke and don’t like Pepsi? And vice versa? Yes.
This is where I think the echo chamber effect comes into play. You have an online community that believes that because PRIDE has superior talent and superior production values that once people see it, they will instantly convert and ditch UFC. And my argument is that simply because you introduce a product that is different in the US marketplace, it doesn’t mean that it’s going to supplant the industry standard.
There’s a famous saying by CNBC’s Jim Cramer (from the Mad Money show) who says that in order for a new company to compete in a similar industry, you have to produce a product that is faster, cheaper, and better. Claiming PRIDE is better is purely subjective and not something you can force an absolute answer onto viewers. Cheaper? PRIDE’s product costs more than UFC to produce. Faster? Well, UFC is starting to oversaturate the MMA market with a ton of programming, and as Jeff Thaler (Whaledog) has analyzed on his site, he believes UFC is doing this on purpose to keep competition outside of their market.
And that isn’t the argument I made in the article. The argument I made is that the few mainstream media writers that covered the event did not come out of the show with a majorly glowing review of it. Even in the “echo chamber” online, we saw a wide variety of opinions.
We know that the rating that PRIDE has drawn on FSN is no larger than a 0.2-0.3, which translates to a viewership of maybe 250,000-300,000 viewers maximum.
We have seen the estimated numbers in the past about previous PRIDE PPVs and what the buyrates were. Bryan Alvarez has repeatedly stated at F4W Online that PRIDE is doing anywhere between 5,000-10,000 US PPV buys a show.
In comparison, TNA (which is mocked a lot by wrestling fans online) draws a 0.7-0.9 rating weekly on Spike TV and attracts 30,000-40,000 US PPV buys.
Looking at site indexes (like Technorati) is anecdotal evidence. It is useful anecdotal evidence, however. It’s an indicator of an overall picture, which is that the data/numbers suggest that PRIDE has what can be defined as a hardcore-only audience in the States.
enough writing already, it is giving me headache. zach and luke already said that pride will close down business after new year’s eve, so there is nothing more to talk about.
So, where’s that Japanese TV deal for PRIDE? 🙂
11,000 is a pretty damn impressive amount. So was the 18,000 that Strikeforce drew in their debut. It remains to be seen if PRIDE can avoid the drop off of fans that Strikeforce has had since then.
Great article with fantastic insight that only Zach could bring! Thanks for the read, keep up the great work.
In respone to a poster above, the LVRJ definitely isn’t a national paper most respects, but for the fight game, it is pretty much the paper of record.
I think that is a good article, and raises some fair questions. It is always hard to promote a foreign entity in America, particularly in sports. Soccer is hugely popular in every other country, but is totally ignored in America. The hw boxing division is treated like it is garbage, simply because there aren’t any American hw champions. Lennox Lewis only had 1 great box office fight, and not coincidentally, it came against Tyson.
MMA doesn’t have the name recognition that either of those two sports have, but in America, UFC is synonymous with mma. Chuck Liddell and Tito Ortiz are more popular than any boxers out there other than Oscar De La Hoya and a handful of others, while guys like Yoshida and Fedor are basically complete unknowns.
If Pride is to have any success in the American market, they need a tv deal, plain and simple. I didn’t see a single ad for the Pride Las Vegas ppv, which means that they are basically just hoping for the hardcore fans to support them, a strategy that has clearly not worked in America previously (in terms of their buyrates). Furthermore, it is silly to think that Americans are more likely to buy a ppv about fighters who they have never heard of, just because they are fighting in America. Shogun and Fedor aren’t much more well-known in America than they are in Zambia.
I for one really hope that Pride succeeds in America, because competition benefits the consumer, and means more money for the fighters.
Really, you could use the same tone of uncertainty regarding the UFC’s future, MMA’s future, and any future invoked.
Your frustrated wailing is supposed to prove Pride…. Well I’m not at all sure what it’s supposed to prove, other than Pride’s future is uncertain. Right, and I repeat: So is the UFC’s, MMA’s, and any other “future” you or any other may discuss.
The Pride fans spoken of (and you, let’s face it, are not one) only wish for Pride’s success. If you’re suggesting devotees do not effect change I announce veneration is change. Overlooking this shifts your opinion to pointlessness.
Pull for the UFC or pull for Pride? Is that it? UFC versus Pride? Take a side; but admit to it. Don’t write an article claiming you know something about markets as if a market is some treasure chest one discovers, unlocks and loots. Continued success will not be this easy for Zuffa or DSE. And how does one treasure chest ever suffice anyway.
[…] Zach Arnold of Fight Opinion has written an excellent piece that explores the challenges Pride faces if they expect success in the United States. According to Arnold the Pride ‘Real Deal’ show sold a better-than-expected 11,727 tickets but he does not believe these numbers will remain high. The crowd that showed up for PRIDE is not a typical mainstream fight crowd. It was a crowd that, rudely put, was dominated by PRIDE otakus. The hardest of the hardcore fans. The type of fans that would travel from other destinations to go see PRIDE live. […]
Wait a minute…
I thought pride execs were all in jail and the company was bankrupt already???
They put on a show in vegas?? I need to start looking at other sources.
I don’t think Pride will have a successful foray into the USA, for that matter I don’t think the UFC will keep this level of success much longer either. The UFC won’t fall back to it’s pre-TUF state, but it will settle down.
What exactly was so Japanese about the production?
It wasn’t Japanese. It was just big and noisy and awesome.
I think for a first ever show on US soil, it was nothing short of a stellar achievement and, in the words of Yazzu (David Brent reference) the only way is UP! BABY!
“It was the 6th biggest MMA show in Vegas. Zach was not bias, he likely knew this.”
http://boxing.nv.gov/MMAgates.htm
Check there website, I dont want to say anymore. If the 10,527 figure for pride is accurate, it would be the biggest gate, or at least right at the top.
All I am going to say beyond what I said I dont have time to go through all this, is zach expects way to much from pride, nobody expected ufc online media reaction, like meltzer said nobody can expect pride to be mainstream without tv, and drawing one of the biggest gates if not the biggest mma gate in vegas, for a niche product like pride, has to be considered a sucess. I honhestly dont get how zach got his expectations.
Shaolin,
From what I can tell, Zach isn’t saying the business this PPV did at the gate is a bad thing, far from it. What he is saying is that, given this is the first time PRIDE FC has appeared on American soil, yes, it was likely to do very good business, but we need to see how it does in the next few shows after the ‘gimmick’ of being a new presence in the American market dissipates and it only has its face value to rely on. It’s impressive that 10,000+ fans wanted to see Fedor come overseas, but at the same time,
I’m not personally confident that PRIDE will continually draw in 10,000+ at the gate, especially if they make the American PPVs 3-4 times a year. The more that they saturate the market with their events, the more likely they will cannibalize their own gates and buyrates (as they will have to compete not only for their fans’ wallets to pay to go to Las Vegas, but they will probably compete with the UFC, Boxing and maybe WWE for PPV buyrates). They have a chance of doing 1 or maybe 2 PPVs and get a good gate and solid buyrate if they hype it up as being a special annual event, but too much saturation will probably diminish the glow of PRIDE being a unique foreign product that is coming in once in a blue moon.
Best article I’ve seen written on this great site. Zach was dead on.
Unlike his predictions for the show not selling well, prior to the event? 😉
I also neglected to mention this but if the “beat guys” are the one’s who cover MMA and boxing, their reviews might have been tainted by the crowd. Considering that the NSAC guys were booed mercilessly by the crowd (Only the announcement that foot stomps and knees and kicks to he head of a down opponent were banned got more heat) and those guys are probably their sources and buddies.
Tomer-
I don’t know about 3 or 4 shows a year but their next show will do well. They sent the “otakus” home happy which is what really matters since word of mouth is more important than newspaper reviews (Especially, when it comes to MMA since I think most fans rely on sites like this and Sherdog instead of newspapers since most newspapers don’t cover it and half of thsoe who do engage in the human cockfighting hyperbole and are obviously “secretly” bitter about it being more popular than boxing). For instance, movies that critics don’t like will sometimes make tons of money this is driven by word of mouth. Pride will also have Wanderlai Silva headlining the show and have a bunch of talent that we still haven’t seen in America like Cro Cop, Nog, Mark Hunt and so many more.
And if Pride sets a record for gate or is in the top five or six again people will take notice and more than two newspaper guys and Japanese magaine writers will be interested in covering the event. Especially, when they realize they can do a Pride versus UFC angle with their stories. Feuds like that always draw regardless of how realistic such things are (Like the coast wars in rap). The otakus that were marking out when Silva called out Liddell and who are ignored when they extol the virtues of Pride and its superiority to the UFC would eat that stuff up.
To the gentleman who suggested that Fedor and Shogun were as over in Zambia as they are in America you couldn’t be more wrong. Both guys were insanely over at the show in America amongst American attendees. Fedor was getting reactions like he was Stone Cold Steve Austin. He could have punched Coleman’s children and still gotten a pop. And I’m not being facetious at all with that staement. I haven’t seen a group of people react that way to someone since SCSA was in his glory days.
Anyway, the updated article Zach linked to comes up as a bunch of squares, so I assume that it’s in Japanese and my browser can’t read it. Is the tv deal with a Japanese station or American?
good read zach!
I for one really hope Pride is a success in the US. They do need a better TV deal though as FSN is doing nothing for them.
i am a bit confused about Pride’s 2nd show in Feb though as they also have the NYE show to think about.
is DSE planning for the likes of Yoshida, Fujita and Cro Cop to fight on both shows?
If pride can keep drawing 10000 die hard fans to there show, as I said they already have to consider this a marginal sucess, with the way tickets were priced, and because alot of die hards showed up, the show itself came off much better, everyone looked like stars, even nakamura.
I think the whole point of uncertainty brought up by Zack revolved around the point that the hardcore fans who attended were traveling from afar to see Prides’ first show. Once the novelty of a premiere wears off, the fans simply won’t be there in such numbers unless more mainstream fans are attracted. The further points of the article focused on the difficulty (whether real or perceived remains to be seen) Pride will have in drawing the casual fan to subsequent shows. To be offended by the fact that casual MMA fans are Americanized is rediculous. Few people watch Japaneese TV dubbed in English, and few people will choose a Japaneese product over an American product in this country unless they are convinced that there are quality benifits that the foreign product offers which aren’t offered by the domestic. Toyota, Nissan, and Japaneese restaraunts have all done a good job of acclimating themselves to the American market; all Zack seemed to be saying to me is that Pride simply must do the same if they want to succeed in this country.
“To the gentleman who suggested that Fedor and Shogun were as over in Zambia as they are in America you couldn’t be more wrong. Both guys were insanely over at the show in America amongst American attendees. Fedor was getting reactions like he was Stone Cold Steve Austin. He could have punched Coleman’s children and still gotten a pop. And I’m not being facetious at all with that staement. I haven’t seen a group of people react that way to someone since SCSA was in his glory days.”
I didn’t say they would be as over in Zambia as they are here, I said they aren’t much better known in America than they are in Zambia. The fact that 11k people know who they are (many of whom are not Americans) doesn’t invalidate what I said at all.
Bryan,
My point is that, yes, there are ‘otakus’ out there that won’t mind shelling out the money to go to the PRIDE events, but at the same time, we have to consider just how many fans there are in the United States that will be willing to shell out the money to watch the show live as well as travel, lodging, etc. After all, the fans who are coming into the US to watch a PRIDE show will eventually reach their budget limit on trips to PRIDE shows in the US, so PRIDE will need to get a solid US fanbase that can be the majority base of the venues or else I expect to see the attendance figures go down a good bit. This first time was fine, and I suspect if they only run 1 or 2 shows a year, the Japanese PRIDE fans (and other foreign fans) wouldn’t mind shelling out the travel/lodging cash to attend the show, but anymore than that and I suspect the numbers will go down a good bit.
That’s just my belief, though, so take it as you will.
Zach Arnold Says:
> October 23rd, 2006 at 7:36 pm
> So, where’s that Japanese TV deal for PRIDE?
zach, i am confused. did you post this response before or after your update about the nikkan sports? i guess i do not understand your point or sense of humor.
by the way, what happened to the b person? he used to post on your site quite often. then it disappeared. even some of his old posts seem like deleted. it is a shame. he seems to understand japanese language better than others too.
I appreciate Zach’s article (and Zach himself), and agree with much of it. However, it suffers from three fairly significant weaknesses:
1. Disingenuous use of sources: Dave Doyle’s “superstars of wrestling” comment came in a piece written BEFORE the show. It was a comment on the line-up, not a criticism of the show itself (which Zach seemed to imply).
Furthermore, as an earlier poster noted, neither Haney nor Iole were as critical as Zach implied (Haney labeled the event a “success,” albeit with some flaws). Iole’s criticisms surrounded the fights themselves, NOT the Japanese-style production aspects (which he said were carried out with “intensity” and “grandeur”). So Zach’s culture-clash argument fails here.
2. Underestimating word of mouth: While most hardcore PRIDE fans surely cannot fly to Vegas 4-5 times a year for a show, they don’t need to for those events to be well-attended. The Las Vegas fight-fan community is relatively close-knit (even counting the more casual UFC fans, who attend because they like to drink and watch fights). This circle works the same as any other social circle… word of mouth rules the day. Those who attended the Real Deal — especially those who are more social attendees — returned to their circles with the news that PRIDE throws the best live shows. (I base this upon the crowd’s overwhelmingly positive reaction to the event, as reported in several sources, including the mainstream media). As a result, the casual attendees who skipped the debut show will likely make it a point to show up at the February event — expecially if they live in the Vegas area. In short, they don’t want to miss the best party in town. Given this, and assuming a better card than the Real Deal, it’s entirely reasonable to suppose that the February show will be better attended than the debut.
3. Misunderstanding PRIDE’s intentions: Zach doesn’t do this outright, and in fact, I think he has a better handle on this than the majority of PRIDE’s hardcore fans. The fact is, PRIDE isn’t aiming to take over the U.S. MMA market (despite all the triumphalistic language Japanese businessmen employ in such situations). PRIDE is simply looking to expand their share in a rapidly growing market. They don’t need to be the number 1 MMA organization in the U.S. to have a successful entry into the market. For this reason, we cannot measure PRIDE’s success/failure against a goal that they do not hold. Again, I don’t think Zach does this explicitly, but the general tone of this piece — as well as earlier articles — does give the impression he does.
As many posters have already commented, much of PRIDE’s success in the U.S. depends upon securing a better TV deal, ideally, with a better network. If they’re able to get something comparable to what the UFC has with Spike, then I could certainly imagine PRIDE eventually moving to the forefront in U.S. MMA. But barring that, PRIDE can still be successful, albeit on a smaller scale. Well attended shows, rising PPV numbers, and increased backend product sales could make their American adventure a productive one.
Here’s a fairly postive piece on Pride/Coleman being done by one of the Las Vegas beat writers that Zach must have forgot to mention.
http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/births/2006/oct/24/566666228.htm
And yes, Doyle’s comment was made before the show. Nice try though.
Oh, and according to the NSAC the number one MMA gate in Vegas was Liddell/Couture III, which brought in 10,301. Not bad for Pride to top that on their first try.
Could Zach be trying to land a job with Zuffa, since he was turned away by Pride’s U.S office a while back?
Great insighfull article as usual Zach, just one thing:
This sounds like you’re assuming that all the available PRIDE fans available in North America went to the Real Deal show. A buddy of mine went, but I didnt go this time (couldnt for other reasons). I am hoping I will go the next time…I’m sure I’m not the only one in this situation. I bet they could do a successfull Pride show on the east coast.
But you are right, it is an uphill battle for Pride in the US, and yes, I am a fan of Japanese culture, I speak and understand some, but can only read Hiragana.
Maybe I’m an MMA snob, I find there are too many UFC fans now (and they dont know much). In a workplace of 300 people there were only 3 of us that chatted up UFC/Pride…Now 3 UFC fans sit within shouting distance from me.
Funny enough, the 3 original UFC/Pride fans here, enjoy TUF4 the best for it being more technical…most people dont like it…not enough drama they say (watch Desperate Housewives for Pete’ sake)
Shaolin,
Those are ranked by the gate, not by the attendance.
#4 is Liddell/Couture II: 12,643
#5 Liddell/Horn: 11,634
#8 Ortiz/Shamrock: 13,055
The list I had showed overall attendance. But going by paid, Pride 32 would be the fourth highest.
I guess we’ll have to see how deep the PRIDE North American fanbase who are willing to pay for tickets (and many who will also have to get travel arrangements/lodging/etc.) in the coming months and years, as we really don’t know how deep the well is. I hope that they are successful (just like any MMA promotion) in their entry into the US market, but we’ll only see the long term results when they unfold.
Ok, it looks like Pride just fell several slots in terms of attendance.
This comes from the Fight Network’s website:
Official attendance numbers were released by the Nevada State Athletic Commission this afternoon for Oct.21’s PRIDE 32’s “The Real Deal,†held at the Thomas & Mack Arena in Las Vegas. Total attendance was 12,181, with 8,079 tickets sold and 4,042 tickets comped.
Live gate revenue was $2,056,444.00, placing PRIDE’s first U.S. event in the sixth slot for top-grossing MMA events in the State just under August 2005’s UFC 54 (Chuck Liddell-Jeremy Horn), according to the NSAC’s website.
So paid attendance: It would rank 13th.
6th on the gate is a nice figure for them.
I wanted to share with everyone a really cool google feature I just found. Some of you (Zach) may have heard of it, but its very interesting to play around with. Its called google trends and you can search for what people are searching for on google worldwide (and specific locations). You receive the results in a graph. The best part, you can compare search terms on the same graph. When you compare UFC and Pride FC, sadly its really no comparison. But anyway, its fun to mess around with, comparing fighter searches to see which fighter is more searched for around the the world, etc. Check it out.
http://www.google.com/trends
Hahaha. Search for Chuck Lidell. The number one city in the world searching for him is San Luis Obispo. And compare him and wanderlei. Chuck dominates the ratings, but in early June, the time of his appearance in UFC, searches for Wandy actually beat Chuck. Hahaha. And notice that in France and Germany, searches for Wanderlei totally outweigh searches for chuck.
Oooooh, thats a telling one. Compare “UFC” and “boxing.” If thats doesnt tell you something.
mr. jerry, i did a quick study with the google trends too. i put it on my blog on 9/18. please have a look sometime at http://mmajapan.blogspot.com/
I don’t see any anti-PRIDE in Zach’s coverage, just a constant trend of over analyzement, probably fuelled by an intense positive interest in MMA, almost the opposite of PRIDE-hate. Same thing with this article. PRIDE needs TV and more mainstream coverage? Not exactly news – this has been an area where they’ve been struggling to improve for years and years now. And of which staging a successful PPV in Vegas is actually a positive progress. Now we(fans of MMA) wait and see how they do next. PRIDE.32 was a success. It can not ever be more than what it was – their first show on US soil. So let people celebrate it then. If I see a baby get up and take his or hers first steps, I’m hardly gonna rise up and deliver a speech to all within hearing range about how the kid has a s*itload of an uphill battle ahead to win olympic gold at marathon…
“However, this article has to be written because a few things need to be pointed out about PRIDE’s Las Vegas event that haven’t been mentioned online.”
– What were these things ABOUT THE LAS VEGAS EVENT that hadn’t previously been mentioned online anyway? This wasn’t an editorial about PRIDE.32 – it’s a mixture of general(old) comments about the state of PRIDE and subjective speculation about attendance potential for their next show. When I saw the main site plug for this piece I honestly expected something more newsworthy(whether fantasy or fact) inside.
Looks like old Zach is worried that Pride hasn’t gone out of business yet, as he so boldly and often predicted, and is dissapointed the show wasn’t a flop.
Name one fight org that has had such a successful debut show in the USA. Pride is not going away Zach, the more you go after this tired “End Of Pride” story, the less credibility you have.
What the hell did they do to you anyways? I remember you dissing Mauro on radio a while back….
Petty personal vendettas always make for poor journalism.
Having said that it was a dissapointing card of squash matches, but I’d rather see that than a card full of nobodies…
“I didn’t say they would be as over in Zambia as they are here, I said they aren’t much better known in America than they are in Zambia. The fact that 11k people know who they are (many of whom are not Americans) doesn’t invalidate what I said at all.”
The vast majority of the attendees were American (Almost everyone spoke American English, I oveheard two people speaking in Spanish while walking to my seat but that hardly means they’re foreigners) and you don’t get over with a crowd like you’re Steve Austin in the late 90’s unless people know who you are. And really, one need only pay attention to their dvd to know that people in America are aware of Pride and by extension, Fedor. You don’t re-release events in “special edition” form unless the thing is selling well and Pride has begun doing that with several of their more popular titles like The 2000 GP and Bad Blood (Shamrock versus Frye). The most surprising thing about the show for me was how intelligent everyone around me was. With the articles about UFC sabotage and rumos about UFC guys trying to sabotage the GP, I was worried that I’d be surrounded by those idiots or just plain drunk morons. But I was pleasantly surprised by everyone. I think you’re grossly underestimating the knowledge of MMA fans in America. You don’t have to travel to Japan to watch Pride with the internet and dvd you can pretty much see everything that they have ever done.
Frankie J—
The card may not have been all that great as far Pride cards go in terms of fight quality potential. However, I think it was smart booking on their part. Only one fight went to a decision and there three submissions with the rest of the victories coming by TKO. The crowd was hot and the fights were fast paced and exciting which gave the crowd even more reason to cheer. Pride can obviously put on better cards but when you have more evenly matched guys fighting your run the risk of the guys matching up too well and getting into a stalemate situation. The only fight during the event that got any boos from the crowd was Barnett/Natsula when Natsula was struggling to take him to the mat.
All of the fights ended up being exciting and Pride put on a great show that led to a wonderful experience and I think that’s what their goal should have been. Now that they’ve gotten the Pride experience out of the way I think they can start to focus on putting out better cards and working on building a larger fanbase out of the positive experience we all had.
Tomer—
Pride’s fanbase is not static. There aren’t 23,476 hardcore Pride fans in the US without the possibility for growth. This show was meant to give the “otakus” the Pride experience and to put on a show that was more exciting than the UFC for any casual fans who might have attended (and to make sure everyone went home happy, of course). Hence, the squash matches leading to exciting short, fast paced fights, most of which ended in some pretty sweet knockouts.
Their goal isn’t to bleed all of the people that went to this show dry until we can’t spend any more money on the shows and to then get out of dodge (That’s a horrible business strategy). As BSP said, their goal is to get a share of the American market. They put on a successful show that everyone went home happy from and already have another card with a top level draw on it—and a show which they can produce a better (fight quality potential) card for. And this is after people are aware that even under American rules Pride still kicks ass.