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Josh Barnett: “Professional wrestling is the reason for the fight industry in Brazil.”

By Zach Arnold | September 6, 2011

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Click the book cover to find out more information on a great catch wrestling resource

During the Summer, I received a few different MMA books to check out and one of them is Jake Shannon’s new book, Say Uncle! It’s as great as you would imagine it to be. Big text, clean layout, good interview snippets & profiles of characters such as Karl Gotch & Billy Robinson… it’s a breeze to read and appeals to a wide swath of fight fans. I cannot say enough good things about Jake’s book and I would strongly encourage you to check it out.

I was reminded of Jake’s book while listening to an interview Josh Barnett did with Mauro Ranallo last Thursday for Mauro’s distinguished & popular MMA radio show.

There was the usual promo cutting for Josh’s upcoming fight against Sergei Kharitonov:

“I know you just jumped out of this plane, Sergei, you’re floating your way down to what you think is going to be the epitome of an MMA career, sitting on the top with a crown of head. As you float through that sky and you look at all these wonderful things and you see all the stuff that you’re going to conquer, I’m going to come over right alongside you & cut all the strings on your parachute and watch you plummet to the ground. Just wait. There’s no room for two at the top.”

However, the most interesting part of the interview had to do with how Josh got into catch wrestling and why he chose it over other fighting disciplines/backgrounds.

JOSH BARNETT: “Well, when I first started in learning about Mixed Martial Arts and getting involved, you know, at first I thought Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu was judo, basically. I didn’t really know the difference and I had a little bit of judo experience but not a lot. But at my roots I’m a wrestler and so finding something that really worked with that and I never felt that wrestling should be discarded at all. I always felt it was necessary to be capable from all angles but not to ever discard my wrestling. That was one of the strongest things that you can have in the ring and watching professional wrestling and being a huge fan of American & Canadian & Japanese professional wrestling for so long and seeing the techniques out there and knowing the lineage about it. Catch wrestling has a very deep lineage and the gym that I started working with came from people that had wrestling & catch wrestling backgrounds so it just made sense and it was so much more aggressive & violent than jiu-jitsu and I’ll be honest — at the time jiu-jitsu was very arrogant especially towards anyone that did not have a jiu-jitsu background or to an extent at the time just because you were not Brazilian. Times have changed a lot with a large influx of jiu-jitsu instructors and whatnot coming from Brazil or just being homegrown here in the United States, but back in 1995… 1994, you know, you tell somebody, ‘well, I wrestle, I do submissions’ or whatever.

‘What’s your belt? Who’s your sensei?”

And I’m like, uh… you know, so-and-so. “Well, I don’t have a belt.”

“Well, whatever,” like they discard you, like whatever you’re doing is all wrong.”

MAURO RANALLO: “Is there similarities then to Luta Livre & catch wrestling in many ways? Luta Livre is submission without the gi and what are the differences between the two?”

JOSH BARNETT: “Yes. Well, you know, the thing is Luta Livre was more inspired by catch wrestling and professional wrestling… whereas Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is actually more so inspired by the judokas that transplanted there, one of them being Mitsuyo Maeda who himself did catch wrestling and was a professional wrestler. So, in either way, professional wrestling is the reason for the fight industry within Brazil. These guys would do their tours of the world, going out there and making it happen and from that… they developed into full-fledged fighting systems.”

**

As for Josh’s goals of wrestling & fighting again in Japan, he said that his avenue with Mr. Inoki is largely finished as long as he’s under contract to Zuffa/Forza. He didn’t exactly label Strikeforce as a dying cancer patient, however. Perhaps he will see a booking in his near future in February for UFC’s Japanese show.

Topics: Brazil, MMA, Media, StrikeForce, Zach Arnold | 122 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |

122 Responses to “Josh Barnett: “Professional wrestling is the reason for the fight industry in Brazil.””

  1. David m says:

    Even at this stage of Josh’s career he would still beat almost every hw in the ufc. Cain and J2S would obviously be favored over him, but I would pick him over Carwin or Brock or Mir or Kongo without much hesitation.

    • edub says:

      I think Carwin or Lesnar would manhandle him. His striking is average at best, and he is able to outwrestle people who can’t wrestle for shit.

      He would be the underdog against the UFC top 4 guys, and Nogueira. Mir would be close though.

      I also think he would have a decent shot against Ubereem.

      • david m says:

        I think Josh’s striking is underrated, and he is a rare HW who actually has jiu jitsu skills from both top and bottom. I think he is a much more fluid fighter than either of those two (Carwin/Lesnar), and I think he would do well against them. He would kill Nog at this stage in Nog’s career; Barnett is the only guy other than Fedor to get a win over prime Nog.

        I think Mir would lose in every area of fighting to Josh. All of those fights would be awesome to see. Adding Barnett, Werdum, Bigfoot, Reem, etc would really make the UFC hw division amazing.

        • edub says:

          “He would kill Nog at this stage in Nog’s career; Barnett is the only guy other than Fedor to get a win over prime Nog.”

          Doubtful. He got the win over Nog, but Nog beat him in a nontourney fight only a few months later.

          Can’t wait til they all share the same division.

    • RST says:

      “Even at this stage of Josh’s career he would still beat almost every hw in the ufc.”

      Eehhhh…

      No.

      I’m not were you got that impression.

      Is that something barnett said?

    • klown says:

      Off David’s list, I’d pick Barnett to beat only Kongo. The other heavyweights would beat him (including Nog, who already beat him). He remains the most overrated fighter of all time.

  2. The Gaijin says:

    Did anyone just see the announcement of Brock vs. Overeem on Dec. 30th? Five rounds? On facebook.

    • The Gaijin says:

      Not sure if someone accidentally leaked this or what the story is but I just copied and pasted below because I thought I was getting trolled.

      UFC: Ultimate Fighting Championship
      Big guys, big fights – five rounds of Brock vs. Reem set for Dec 30 at MGM Grand!
      LikeUnlike · · 20 minutes ago 4,225 people like this.

      • edub says:

        Yep. Dana just tweeted it.

      • Steve4192 says:

        Brock has some GIGANTIC balls, you have to give him that.

        • edub says:

          Agreed.

          Fights Mir in the second match of his career. Couture in the 4th. Fights Carwin after a year out with a debilitating disease. Now fights Overeem after another setback with his stomach.

          Apparently Fear is not a factor for Brock.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          Brock Lesnar certainly does not BS. He straight up said that he came to the UFC to be tested and that’s exactly what he is doing. Even between bouts of serious illness, he comes back right into the fire.

          Mir (2X), Herring, Couture, Carwin, Velasquez, and now Overeem. And Overeem will only be his 8th professional fight.

          It’s great matchmaking for the UFC. Either Lesnar gets a quality win and a title shot…. Or they have built up Overeem the best they can against a huge name.

          My prediction on this fight…. Brock Lesnar not only wins it, he dominates from beginning to end. I actually think this is easy money for anybody betting on this one.

        • RST says:

          If the Brock can get overeem down without getting hit he’s got a perfectly good chance.

          Overeem has a good sprawl and he’s powerful. But he’s not a wrestling machine like the Brock, and the Brock is probably just as strong.

          I think it sounds like a perfectly reasonable fight for the Brock.

          And I’m actually more impressed that overeem accepted it.

          Now he’s walking the walk.
          I’m proud of him.

        • Alan Conceicao says:

          Brock is getting paid huge amounts of money, so they’re gonna make him fight guys that justify it.

          Anyhow, it is a really interesting fight because, as apparently everyone has forgotten, Lesnar will have been out of a cage for 18 months entering this fight. In fact, he will have fought all of twice in about 2 and a half years going into it. He’s probably very, very rusty and only getting older. He has a wrestling base which is nice and always valuable, but that wrestling base on paper should have allowed him to control whether or not the fight stayed standing or went to the mat against Carwin and Velasquez too. Didn’t work that way.

          There’s lots of things that are suspect about Overeem’s last couple of performances in the cage, but the one thing that is indisputably true regardless of how you feel about his competition is that he has performances in the cage. Lesnar doesn’t.

        • edub says:

          “Brock is getting paid huge amounts of money, so they’re gonna make him fight guys that justify it.”

          Bullshit.

          You and I both know that he could coast on fighting guys like Kongo or Struve, and the UFC would be more than happy to do so.

          “He has a wrestling base which is nice and always valuable, but that wrestling base on paper should have allowed him to control whether or not the fight stayed standing or went to the mat against Carwin and Velasquez too. Didn’t work that way.”

          He did get to the fight to the mat with both. He submitted Carwin, and got shucked off by Cain who has a pretty similar background to Lesnar. Carwin also has a very good Wrestling background.

          “There’s lots of things that are suspect about Overeem’s last couple of performances in the cage, but the one thing that is indisputably true regardless of how you feel about his competition is that he has performances in the cage. Lesnar doesn’t.”

          I agree with all of this, and have the opinion that Overeem should be favored heading into the fight. ALthough I think the popularity (added into the performance against Werdum) will make Lesnar the favorite once the fight draws closer. If that happens I will put some money on Reem.

        • Alan Conceicao says:

          You and I both know that he could coast on fighting guys like Kongo or Struve, and the UFC would be more than happy to do so.

          I don’t think the UFC likes to give guys easy fights. I think they pride themselves on not doing that. I give them all the credit in the world for that. I think they also aren’t willing to back up a Brinks truck to make fights for Lesnar that aren’t big names.

          In this case, this fight fell to them because Overeem “didn’t want to wait”. I take that as being “Overeem gets PPV points and knows Lesnar means more money”.

          He did get to the fight to the mat with both. He submitted Carwin, and got shucked off by Cain who has a pretty similar background to Lesnar. Carwin also has a very good Wrestling background.

          Carwin has a decent wrestling background, but my memory is that he is a DIII guy. He isn’t at Lesnar’s level or anywhere close to it. Neither was Cain, frankly. They don’t have comparable resumes as wrestlers. Cain and Carwin (before gassing) both were able to prevent Lesnar from having top control for any significant period of time and actually put him on his back with their grappling in more effective fashion. The difference between the two is that Carwin went wild and ended up not finishing a badly wounded Lesnar whereas Cain did in utterly dominant fashion.

          My point I’m making is that while Overeem isn’t a great D-I wrestler or even a guy with an incredible gas tank, neither is a proven necessity to stop Lesnar’s shot or to beat him up. At this point, who even knows what it will take? No one has seen Lesnar in the ring for about a calendar year.

        • edub says:

          “He isn’t at Lesnar’s level or anywhere close to it. Neither was Cain, frankly. They don’t have comparable resumes as wrestlers.”

          No, their backgrounds are close to mirror images of one another. Both started out at smaller schools, and moved to D1 powerhouses after dominating. Both are two time all-americans, and the only thing that kept Cain away from the Nat’l title was Cole Konrad his senior year (Cole won in the semis on a judges decision in an extremely close match). The only thing Brock did that Cain didn’t is win the Title.

          “My point I’m making is that while Overeem isn’t a great D-I wrestler or even a guy with an incredible gas tank, neither is a proven necessity to stop Lesnar’s shot or to beat him up. At this point, who even knows what it will take? No one has seen Lesnar in the ring for about a calendar year.”

          Yea, I agree with all of that. The factors for both are many: Lesnar- Doesn’t like to get hit, Has had few fights in the past three years, and has shitty defense. Overeem- Has wilted in the past, doesn’t have the best gas tank, and hasn’t been in with a great wrestler in a long time.

          Overeem has the advantage though because, as you pointed out, he’s got the cage time.

        • RST says:

          “but that wrestling base on paper should have allowed him to control whether or not the fight stayed standing or went to the mat against Carwin and Velasquez too. Didn’t work that way.”

          But Carwin And Cain are ALSO wrestlers.

          Good point about the layoff for the Brock though.
          I hadn’t thought about that.

          But Overeem hasn’t been steadily clashing with the titans for awhile either.

          Not in MMA at least.

          If my fuzzy memory serves, it seems to me that other then Verdum and Duffy, most of his genuine activity for a few years has been in Kickboxing.

          If that’s true, then they’ll probably both be a bit “rusty” IMO. Which should hopefully level the playing field regarding that at least.

        • Alan Conceicao says:

          People trash Werdum because he lost to Dos Santos a million years ago, but apparently that same logic doesn’t work for someone like Carwin. The only difference is that Werdum has better wins and is probably the better all around fighter.

          Also, good lord, nothing is worse about MMA discussion than hearing people talk about all wrestlers being the same. Being a DIII wrestler is not being Brock Lesnar. Being an All American who did pretty well at nationals but didn’t win and only made the semis once doesn’t make you Brock Lesnar. Brock Lesnar went 50-2 in the Big Ten. Brock was the top heavyweight in the Big Ten two years in a row. Brock finalled and won a national title. Cain Velasquez’s record is not a mirror image of Brock’s. It isn’t.

        • edub says:

          “Being an All American who did pretty well at nationals but didn’t win and only made the semis once doesn’t make you Brock Lesnar. Brock Lesnar went 50-2 in the Big Ten. Brock was the top heavyweight in the Big Ten two years in a row. Brock finalled and won a national title. Cain Velasquez’s record is not a mirror image of Brock’s. It isn’t.”

          Dude stop. You don’t know a goddamn thing about wrestling, and it’s apparent.

          Cain dominated the Pac 10 just like Brock dominated the Big 10. He only has 3 or 4 more losses in his entire D1 wrestling career. When you get to that level of wrestling the similarities are close as shit, and that’s why you see the same guys who lose in the national tournament beat the same guys in freestyle tourneys like the Dave Schultz invitational and the sunkist open. Or they’ll beat guys during the season, and then lose to them in the tourney.

          BTW I said “close to mirror images of one another”, because they are. Cain obviously would have liked that national title.

        • Alan Conceicao says:

          The Big 10 and Pac 10 are on entirely different levels in amateur wrestling: Who are you kidding? Go look at the USA Wrestling rankings for teams and show me how the Pac 10 squads match up. Not to mention that Lesnar won the national title which Cain never even reached the finals to compete for. Cain went 77-37 as a wrestler in college. Brock Lesnar went 106-5. IN THE BIG TEN.

    • Alan Conceicao says:

      But, but….Internet people said that Dana was going to cut him off forever and never forgive! And that Alistar wasn’t enough of a name or important enough to be in the headliner spot of a PPV!

      LOL, another example of people predictably missing that this was just contract renegotiation to get Alistar over to the UFC now that the ownership was the same and no real barriers existed. And he succeeded. Good for him.

      • 45 Huddle says:

        You don’t sack an entire team just as a way to get a single fighter over to the UFC.

        The line was drawn in the sand. The UFC has shown all of the old guard that this is how they will do business from now on. The ones who understand and change their ways are now with the UFC.

        The ones who don’t, are fighting Jeff Monson next….

        • Alan Conceicao says:

          It was a negotiation tactic on the part of the UFC. What difference did it really make, 45? Is Overeem fighting in the Strikeforce GP now? He got his way and Golden Glory basically did too.

  3. 45 Huddle says:

    And Matt Hughes said on Twitter that he said yes to fighting either Jon Fitch or Josh Koscheck.

    I’m not a huge fan of Hughes… Never have been…. But just like Lesnar, the guy pretty much has and is willing to fight anybody at 170 pounds.

  4. cutch says:

    Clay Guida Vs Ben Henderson is a prelim for the FOX card, Spike TV could probably draw a really big rating if they ran the prelims but probably wont help the UFC out.

    The HW title fight won’t go the distance so hopefully they have time to slot this fight in.

    • Alan Conceicao says:

      I don’t see Ben Henderson drawing a monster rating. Ever.

      • cutch says:

        It would be the UFC brand, not Ben Henderson that would draw the viewers, Spike could piggy back some of the excitement that the Fox card is generating and in turn do big prelim numbers.

        • Alan Conceicao says:

          I think it is really great that there is a big time title fight on free network TV, but I regret to tell you that I think the window for the UFC to burst through with some monster number and make a prelim fight (IE a fight openly marketed as not being important enough for Fox) probably closed awhile ago.

  5. 45 Huddle says:

    And for fans who car about the Linear MMA Titles…

    Heavyweight – Is now less then a year away from being the UFC Champion.

    Light Heavyweight, Middleweight, Welterweight, Featherweight, & Bantamweight – All UFC Champions.

    All that leaves is Lightweight (Shinya Aoki) and Flyweight, which isn’t being used by the UFC right now.

    Won’t it be something if in a few years, all 8 UFC Champions are also the linear champions….

    5 years ago I thought that was a pipe dream. Now I think it’s a definitive reality.

    • Chuck says:

      Aoki? Shouldn’t it be Gilbert Melendez, considering that Melendez beat Aoki and Melendez hasn’t lost at all in the interim?

      • edub says:

        45 looks at it as Kawajiri was the linear champion when they fought from a win over Kazunori Yokota, who beat Eiji Mitsouka, who beat Sergey Golyaev, who beat Takanori Gomi.

        But that would see Gomi keeping the title after his “NC” against Diaz, eventhough it could become Vacant (not go back to Gomi immediately after the Weed test).

        • 45 Huddle says:

          So who is the linear champion now if the belt went vacant at that point?

        • edub says:

          Either Gilbert Melendez or Frankie Edgar.

          If you look at the fight between Shinya Aoki and Gesias Calvacante in 2008 as the fight for the Linear Title then it’s Gil. If you look at the fight between BJ Penn and Sean Sherk in 2008 as the fight for the Linear Title then it’s Frankie.

          Personally, I think it’s Gil.

        • edub says:

          … or it’s Jorge Masvidal, if you discount the explanation by the NSAC that Weed is a PED.

        • Alan Conceicao says:

          I’d argue the title is still basically vacant and fractured, but Aoki has no bearing on it whatsoever.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          So at what point does it become unfractured?

          Melendez vs. Edgar/Maynard?

        • Alan Conceicao says:

          Basically, yes. Melendez clearly beat the guys to justify being the clear #1 guy outside the UFC and argurably the #1 guy in the sport. Edgar beat Penn who rose to #1 off of beating Joe Stevenson because he was BJ Penn and not for any really good reason aside from that.

        • edub says:

          The win over Sherk kind of cemented his place at the top, but yes the win over Stevenson had many place him at the top of the heap (and even the win over Pulver had many place him in the top three).

        • Alan Conceicao says:

          And when you type that out, doesn’t it seem a little ridiculous that he got rated the way he did?

        • edub says:

          A little.

          But the match against Sherk proved a lot IMO (in that time period). Sherk was hella underrated by a lot of people, and I considered him on the level of pretty much everybody in Japan (JZ, Ribeiro, Hansen, Aoki, Kawajiri) at the time.

        • Alan Conceicao says:

          Sherk hadn’t done anything to deserve a ranking at lightweight. That’s why he was “underrated”. What little he did do was overshadowed by popping for steroids and having to disappear for a year. He came back from that banishment to beat Tyson Griffin (which while good, is not an incredible win), lose to Frankie Edgar, and get a gift decision against Evan Dunham (IMO). He will go down as a paper champion more well known for pharmaceutical use than success in the UFC cage.

        • edub says:

          Well yes, but if were doing revisionist history more than 50% of the fighters who reigned in Japan (Gomi, Aoki, Hansen, Ribeiro, JZ) will be looked at as very overrated. At the time Sherk came down to LW from a good win at WW, beat a guy in Kenflo who went on to become a top 3 LW, and then beat Franca who was obviously at the top of his game (which was helped by the PED’s).

          If I was handicapping any of the fights from that time period for Sherk vs the high ranked guys in Japan he would definitely be the favorite. Which would be helped even more by the fact that Japan doesn’t test.

        • Alan Conceicao says:

          None of those guys were “overrated”. There was nobody else at the time.

        • edub says:

          That makes no sense.

          There was Sherk who moved down. Melendez, Thompson, Guida, and Griffin. All are aging the exact same way with most falling off/moving down, and Melendez moving to the top.

          If those guys weren’t overrated then there’s no way in hell Sherk or BJ were.

        • Alan Conceicao says:

          No edub, it makes perfect sense. When Gomi was the top guy in the world and Kid Yamamoto was making waves in HERO’S, Sean Sherk was fighting at 170. Melendez and Griffin were fighting journeymen and featherweights in tiny regional casino promotions on the west coast. Clay Guida was getting beaten on KOTC shows by lanky journeymen no one cares about now. They weren’t “underrated” any more than any prospect is “underrated”. No one was underrating Cain Velasquez in 2007 because he wasn’t top 5. He just didn’t beat anyone. What is difficult to understand about that?

        • edub says:

          No Alan. Your confusing your time periods. I’m not misataken on anything.

          We are talking about late 2007 early 2008 when Gomi had lost to Diaz and Aurelio less than a year apart so people were already calling him overrated (garbage NC aside). Melendez had already beaten Guida, Kawajiri, and lost a close fight with Ishida. Guida had just finished beating Thompson and losing close decisions to Thomas and Griffin. Griffin beat everybody he faced (including Aurelio) except Frankie Edgar. Sean Sherk was busy being a top 5 WW, that moved down LW so his stock moved with him (I believe you have said on multiple occasions you don’t discount certain fighters wins because they happened in a different weight class).

          The whole weight class was fractured, and the fighters that were ranked high were the ones fighting in Japan because that is where the old class of ranked fighters competed at.

          Again, Sean Sherk isn’t anymore overrated then the top guys in Japan were (and should be rated higher on any type of all-time list).

        • Alan Conceicao says:

          You’re talking about a lot of prospects beating each other and Gil Melendez placing himself high in the top 5. Clay lost a bunch of decisions in exciting fights to prospects. Why should he have been ranked above the likes of, I dunno, Gomi? I don’t see your argument here. Sherk being a top 5 WW is nice, but he pulled a lot of his record outside the UFC against second tier competition and ultimately his ranking at lightweight is hardly compelling enough to say that he deserved to ever be ranked far above where he was at the time.

          And there is no way whatsoever Sherk should be ranked above the likes of Gomi or Mach Sakurai on an all time list of any sort. Please. He has done zero to justify it.

        • edub says:

          Title contender in two divisions. Wins over Nick Diaz, Evan Dunham, Karo Parisyan 2x, Kenny Florian, manny Gamburyan, Hermes Franca, Tyson Griffin, and has fought as high as MW. And he doesn’t have losses to Sergey Golyaev, or Marcus Aurelio.

          Sherk belongs higher on an all-time list than Gomi (eventhough that’s not even the argument it was directed towards Aoki, JZ, Hansen, kawajiri). Gomi ruled a single division for longer, but also ruled a split division and started losing when he fought better competition.

          I agree with Sakurai, but he was already competing again at WW by this time period.

        • Alan Conceicao says:

          The LW division Gomi ruled over wasn’t split though. That’s the problem with that argument. He actually became a real champion. Does he have some losses? Sure. So does Sherk. And Sherk has far more suspect and questionable wins than Gomi. Gomi’s general level of competition was better too.

        • edub says:

          Competition levels were insanely similar, with Sherk probably holding the higher level.

        • Alan Conceicao says:

          Sherk beat a lot of guys before their primes and struggled or lost to most in prime fighters he faced. Him beating Karo 2 years before Parisyan even made it to a bigger show and calling it a great win shows where you are coming from here in terms of confusing prospects with ranked talent.

        • edub says:

          Oh, like Gomi beating kawajiri while he was “in his prime”, or beating Jens Pulver, or beating a sucked down, dried out sakurai?

          Gomi ruled the division because guys that could be ruling it (sherk, BJ, Serra) didn’t compete there. His record is stacked with a 4 or 5 good wins, and then filled with Charles Bennet, and “insert Brazilian can here”.

          Sherk doesn’t have the terrible losses that gomi does, and that’s what moves him away.

        • Alan Conceicao says:

          Sherk doesn’t have those losses because he barely has any relevant fights in the upper tiers of the sport. That’s why you’re reverting to pre-UFC Karo Parisyan to bolster his record.

        • edub says:

          It doesn’t matter that it’s pre UFC Karo. He still there. And Sherk has plenty of fights with garbage fighters like Aurelio and Golyaev. He just never lost to them. Check his losses Matt Hughes (Former UFC champion), GSP (probably best fighter of all time in a couple years), Frankie Edgar (current best 155lber in world), and BJ Penn (former champion). The only guy Gomi has even fought that’s on that level is BJ, and Penn put him away quicker.

        • Alan Conceicao says:

          You’re right. It doesn’t matter when anyone fights someone and beats them. No one ever gets better or develops in MMA. Nor do they ever get worse.

        • edub says:

          Exactly. That’s why all of Gomi’s top wins were over guys at their very best, and not over the hill or too early in their career.

    • RST says:

      “And for fans who car about the Linear MMA Titles…”

      Blech.

      Linear titles are a bunch of bull.

      All it takes is for one guy to win once, and then fight cans and scrubs for the rest of his career and he’ll always be the linear champ.

      BS IMO.

      Its the quality of the competition and how hard you fought for a title that should measure its value.

      • IceMuncher says:

        One time for fun a couple years ago, I tracked down the linear title for the NFL, starting from the previous year’s SB champion. It ended up being the Browns iirc at the end of the season, and they didn’t make the playoffs so they kept it. Browns: Linear NFL champs 2009ish!

  6. nottheface says:

    I’ll have to check out the book. I think Shannon has such a hard on for Catch that he exaggerates a bit, or leans towards the myth over reality. But as .John Ford once said, given a choice between facts and myth, he would print the myth so I can’t blame him. Either way, he still pretty informed so I’ll check it out.

    And Barnett is pretty much right on the money, It all comes out of turn of the century pro wrestling, Kodokan Judo, and the confluence of the two. There’s nothing new under the sun.

  7. RST says:

    Come on Sergei!
    :)

  8. Liger05 says:

    Thanks just ordered that book.

    Brock is going to get knocked out!!

  9. EJ says:

    Gotta say once again i’m left scratching my head over 2 of the UFC’s big fight announcements. While Brock vs. Overeem is going to get the hardcore fans all excited, to me it would make much more sense to book Mir against either guy. Brock vs. Mir regardless of how much the hardcores will bitch will be huge for the UFC business wise. And Mir vs. Overeem will also be a bigger fight since I disagree big time with Brock getting a number 1 contender fight after a loss.

    Mir must still be in the doghouse because if they trot out zombie Nog to face him then I give up and will start to really wonder where Joe Silva head is at. Also why in the world is Guida vs. Henderson being wasted on the undercard of the FOX show?. That fight will be for the number 1 contendership of the LW title and it won’t air, seriously WTF? is going on with Zuffa as of late.

    • cutch says:

      It’s a fresh match up and it either gets your biggest draw in a tite match or Overeem who should be easy to promote as well. Lesner destroyed Mir in their second fight and unless Brock is finished I don’t think Mir could stop him doing it again.

  10. bluerosekiller says:

    C’mon, I refuse to believe that the prelims to the inaugural UFC ON FOX won’t be televised. Especialy now with Guida vs Henderson signed.
    Sure, they could just go with showing clips of the match in the case of an early ending of the main event, but they could do that anyways.
    If Spike is too stupid & pissed off at the UFC to carry the undercard, then surely, Dana & the boys can find someone who will. If not, I’d consider it a bit of an insult to all of us longtime, loyal MMA fans on the night that the UFC goes mainstream.

    Jim

    • 45 Huddle says:

      SpikeTV has 100% rights to the UFC on cable through the rest of the year….

      Which means the only way they could show them on TV is:

      1) FOX
      2) SpikeTV
      3) Showtime

  11. 45 Huddle says:

    Nick Diaz is losing his title shot because he no showed two press conferences to promote the fight.

    Good for Zuffa. Diaz played games with Coker and got away with it. He can’t play this game with Zuffa.

    If he wants to get paid, he needs to show up to work.

    I love the message this sends.

    • Alan Conceicao says:

      LOL, what a message. “We are willing to make less money making fights the fans don’t want over irrelevant press conferences 3 months out.” Score one for MMA fans.

      • david m says:

        Goddamnit. Nobody buys Carlos Condit as a main eventer. This is repulsive. I had been talking with a group of friends all over the country about going to this event, and now nobody wants to go.

        Diaz is definitely a knucklehead, but Dana is a goddamned moron because he just cost his show hundreds of thousands of buys, as well as pissing off all the fans who actually wanted to see that specific fight.

      • edub says:

        I think it says more that: “If you don’t do what we say, we will drop you”.

        Whether you think that is good or bad is of course your personal opinion, but if a UFC union was around you know this wouldn’t happen (he probably never would have been offered the shot in the first place).

        Now it should go to either of the two more deserving guys in Carlos Condit or Jon Fitch (I’d prefer Condit).

        • Alan Conceicao says:

          Dana says he isn’t fired. Let me ask you, do you think this is a legit story? “Nick Diaz just disappeared and won’t call us back”?

        • edub says:

          He still lost the title shot.

          It’s Nick Diaz. You tell me if you can’t envision Nick doing something this stupid. Weirder things have happened.

          Obviously this could be a cover though. I just can’t imagine what.

        • Alan Conceicao says:

          Rehab? Serious medical problems? “Personal issues”?

        • Alan Conceicao says:

          I can envision Nick Diaz doing all sorts of insane things. Do you envision a fighter ruining a big headlining bout for Zuffa and getting the “Well, he’s still with us” from Dana White if there wasn’t some backstory? There is obviously something up here and a greater backstory.

        • edub says:

          From Nick? Yes. Were talking about a guy who started a fight in a hospital, after already fighting that night.

          Dana has also kept open the possibility of releasing him (I think he is gauging the general reaction from fans and the media too see how much flack they’ll get).

      • 45 Huddle says:

        You are a tool.

        Even Diaz’s own coach is embarrassed by his actions.

        Diaz is straight up ducking GSP just like he ducked many other guys before.

        When his own coach is saying he’s hiding…. It means it’s far too risky to go on with the fight.

        Only a blatant Zuffa hater would bash them here. Diaz is 100% in the wrong with Gracie throwing him under the bus.

        • edub says:

          I love him. Have said that many times.

          But to back Diaz for missing to prefight pressers is definitley no the intelligent way of looking at the situation…

        • Alan Conceicao says:

          I am not a rube towing the party line as you do every time there is a contract negotiation. This is obviously a fake story and there is something bigger going on with Nick that the UFC is covering for.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          Wrong. If it was something personal his own coach wouldn’t be throwing him under the bus on the phone during a press conference.

          This is a straight up duck job by Diaz. Admit you were wrong and move on. Even Gracie knows Nick Diaz is in the wrong….

        • Alan Conceicao says:

          Give it a week and 45 Huddle will be the genius who knew all along that there was something more to the story.

        • nottheface says:

          What’s odd is that by missing the presser Diaz is a bigger star than ever. Look at the trends. Look at the coverage on the forums and sites. If Diaz they are able put Diaz back in the match it is now, as hard as that is to imagine, bigger than it was before.

      • 45 Huddle says:

        If there was a union, Diaz would have still been penalized for no showing. Happens all the time in major sports.

        Gracie’s comments speak volumes. He is throwing his own fighter user the bus.

        Diaz is scared.

        Zuffa had no other options but to cancel and get a fight that had more then a 5% chance of happening.

        Diaz is exactly what I have always said he was….. Afraid to fight top competition….

        • edub says:

          Oh, he definitely would be penalized. But for him to lose the fight for it I don’t think would happen (If the unin had any intelligence).

          I don’t know if Diaz is scared or crazy (I lean towards the crazy), but there is a little excuse for his actions.

        • david m says:

          This is the dumbest fucking thing you have posted in hours.

          Saying Nick Diaz is scared is just so far outside the realm of possible. He isn’t scared to fight anyone, he got cut from the UFC years ago. He has fought Sherk, Diego, Daley, Gomi when that meant something, a former 205 pound champion in Frank Shamrock, a 185 pound contender in Robbie Lawler, and you say he is scared. Your ego and lack of sense are both remarkable.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          He had no problems doing pre fight press conferences for lesser fighters.

          All of a sudden it’s against GSP and he has an anxiety issue?

          Scared!!

          Solid, over rated fighter, who happens to be a mental midget. He also straight up ducked Hieron in SF. He has a history of avoiding fights. It now continues.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          And he ducked Mayhem Miller…. Hence the saying…. “Don’t be scared homie”.

          Face it…. Your favorite fighter ducks big fights.

  12. edub says:

    Justice is served. The rightful, deserving fighter (Carlos Condit) is getting his shot at GSP.

    Neither had much of a shot against him, but condit has the better record (by far), is just as exciting, and has actually competed against good wrestlers in Ellenberger and Kim lately.

    Jacksons should be in for a fun couple months. Wonder where Condit will go?

    • david m says:

      Condit is 27-5, Diaz 25-7. Not really a better record by far dude. Condit is also nowhere near as exciting; Nick Diaz knocked out the best striker in the division; he regularly talks shit during his fights and anything can happen at any moment. Carlos Condit is an excellent fighter no doubt, but nobody cares about him. Diaz has the crazy factor; you can’t really put a price on that. I hope he is ok.

      I realize that Diaz fucked up severely (he is definitely not all there), but I think most people don’t really give a shit about the press conference, and just want to see Diaz and GSP fight.

      What is really said at a press conference anyways? GSP will say X opponent is the toughest he has ever faced, bla bla bla. Who cares? Dana could have said Diaz was sick. I know it isn’t in Dana’s repertoire to do that, but we are talking about replacing a legit super fight with a fight that just doesn’t move the needle. Let’s be honest, if Carlos Condit fought Rory MacDonald again today, MacDonald would destroy him. Condit doesn’t have the boxing or cardio of Diaz, nor his jiu jitsu. GSP will top control him for 25 minutes.

      • edub says:

        The last 5 years of Diaz’s record isn’t even comparable to Condit. It’s filled with LW’s and one dimensional fighters who can’t wrestler. The only ranked guy he faced was Paul Daley, and eventhough it was a great fight he nearly got his ass K’d in the first round. He didn’t fight him that way because Nick wanted to prove anything either, he just went after him in that fashion because his wrestling is deplorable. Nick Diaz is exciting, but so is Condit. There were some people that were excited for the Diaz matchup but a lot new it was a gimmick to have a champion fight another champion who hadn’t competed against a top tier guy in close to 5 years. (and this is all coming from a huge Diaz fan)

        “Let’s be honest, if Carlos Condit fought Rory MacDonald again today, MacDonald would destroy him.”

        Maybe. But let’s also be honest and say if diaz fought macdonald, fitch, Shields, Kim, Hendricks, Pierce, Koscheck, Ellenberger, Brenneman, or Story he would have a good chance of losing.

        Condit has better kickboxing, just as much power, and a good enough ground game to try and reverse GSP.

        He has just a good a shot at beating GSP as Diaz did, and that is very little.

        • Alan Conceicao says:

          When did Condit show you he had the kind of grappling chops to defend off his back or from the shot against GSP? By being beaten half to death against Ellenberger until Jake tired out?

        • edub says:

          Or against Rory Macdonald, or against Dong Hyun Kim. Or against Martin Kampman (all have much better wrestling than anybody Diaz has fought since Gomi).

          Obviously the nobody outside of top tier wrestlers have shown the ability to reverse GSP. However, what Condit has done with those guys shows there is a chance. But thanks for chiming in.

        • Alan Conceicao says:

          When did Martin Kampmann become a wrestler? Seriously, dude. You’re losing it making these claims.

          I’m not saying that Nick Diaz is gonna stuff GSP. He wouldn’t. Never. But he can throw his hips around and is active off his back. Condit is not that kind of BJJ player. And his takedown defense might actually be worse than Nick’s.

        • edub says:

          Ah, looks like were gonna have to go back to reading comprehension with little Alan:

          “(all have much better wrestling than anybody Diaz has fought since Gomi).”

          Can you not read? I mean it’s getting kind of old you taking things I say out of context to try to fit into one of your inept points. Kampman (along with Ellenberger, Rory, DHK, or even Brock Larson) are all better wrestlers than Diaz has faced since Gomi. That’s 5 years of dudes like Cyborg, Daley, Noons, Smith, Shamrock, Aina, etc.

          There is nothing in the recent game, or even in the past 5 years that shows Diaz can do anything with a guy like Mike Pierce. Nothing. Condit has actually proved he can do those things.

          Diaz has terrible takedown defense; Condit’s is bad for a WW but he’s proven that he can stop the takedown, and reverse it when needed. You couldn’t say Diaz’s is better because he hasn’t fought a wrestler since George Bush was in office.

        • Alan Conceicao says:

          edub, I’m asking you what you see in Condit that makes you believe he can actually stuff and move GSP off him. I’m not asking you to compare/contrast Diaz’s takedown defense to Condit’s. You’re not doing that. You’re just telling me that a guy who has been taken down in all but one of his last 11 fights has a chance at bucking the best MMA takedown artist, P4P, in the history of the sport. What is it that you actually see? Techniques. Moments. Things that Condit does. Not what Diaz does badly, because he probably ends up under GSP but at least makes a show of it.

        • edub says:

          Ok then.

          What I am saying is the fact that Condit has gone up against guys (specifically ellenberger and Macdonald) that have good takedowns plus top control, and made it very hard for them with hard strikes, submission attempts and sweeps. I believe that shows he has a (small) shot against GSP. A better one than Diaz, just because of the power and the sweeps he has shown (not to mention the fact that they have trained together extensively).

          Either one is going to get locked down underneath George. IMO St. Pierre could lock down Anderson right now if they fought. I just think Condit has shown the ability recently to deal with good wrestlers.

          I don’t think Diaz’s BJJ will have anything for George. He takes big shots, and eats way too many elbows looking to attack off his back.

          And as Steve said below, let’s not pretend GSP is gonna get submitted.

        • edub says:

          *Icemuncher said below.

  13. Light23 says:

    It seems rash to pull him from the fight, until you consider he snuck out the back door of Cesar Gracie’s house instead of going to the airport. Now nobody can find him.

    You can’t really run a huge event with that guy.

    Didn’t he also miss the last one too?

  14. Steve4192 says:

    Honestly, this sounds like a severe social anxiety disorder to me.

    As someone who has suffered through it himself, Diaz’s actions sound very familiar. Going radio silent with the people closest to you, going through panic attacks every time the phone or doorbell rings, doing crazy shit like ducking out the back door when your friends come looking for you, permanently damaging relationships for no good reason other than anxiety over having a conversation, etc. Been there, done that. It’s fucking scary and the aftermath always sucks.

    I am through making fun of Nick Diaz for being ‘kooky’. I honestly believe the guy needs help. I hope he finds it.

    • edub says:

      Agreed, and it’s close to what I am being treated for now.

      I also though that this was already his diagnosis, and he was on medicinal marijuana for it (among other things). Is that wrong?

      • 45 Huddle says:

        Gracie is saying it’s social anxiety and that Diaz needs help.

        • Steve4192 says:

          If that turns out to be the case, I hope Diaz seeks out a legitimate medical professional and that Zuffa supports him. I’d hate to see the guy lose his job because he was dealing an undiagnosed mental disorder.

          Also, on a side note, this is a major reason why I despise medical marijuana. These quacks that hand out marijuana ‘prescriptions’ are doing nothing more than enabling people who need real help to self-medicate rather than getting help. I’m all for legalizing weed, but for God’s sake, stop telling people it is fucking medicine. It’s a recreational drug with some medicinal properties, but that doesn’t make it medicine.

        • edub says:

          …And for someone with a deep social anxiety disorder it can be more harmful than good.

  15. 45 Huddle says:

    Diaz and Condit are basically the same fighters. Neither had a chance against GSP based on their lack of wrestling. This changes nothing really.

    • edub says:

      Agree mostly.

      The biggest thing I’m happy about is Condit has gone against the competition to deserve this fight. Diaz hasn’t.

    • david m says:

      They aren’t the same fighter. Condit doesn’t have Diaz’s hands or stamina or his bottom game or his craziness. Diaz doesn’t have Condit’s kicks. Condit may be a little faster, I’m not sure.

      MMA is much more about hands than kicks, and if you can’t wrestle, you have to be a beast off your back. Condit is definitely good off his back, but he isn’t as good as Nick is.

      Diaz’s don’t-give-a-fuck attitude and the way he fights/talks are the reasons he is so popular. Condit is a beast, I have been a fan of his for a long time (and thought he deserved the win over Kampmann), but he doesn’t possess the tools that give Diaz a decent shot to beat GSP. Wrestlerape for 25 minutes this time. I hope I’m wrong.

      • edub says:

        Nick has never proved how good he is against a top tier wrestler grappler, as condit has throughout his UFC tenure though. Condit also has more power.

        Neither of them have a chance against Georgie-boy, and that bottom game that hasn’t been shown against a top tier opponent since Gomi from Nick wouldn’t change that.

      • IceMuncher says:

        Nick is good off his back, but let’s not kid ourselves. Nobody is submitting GSP from the guard anytime soon. That’s a losing position in a fight against GSP. The only thing that having a better “bottom game” means is that Diaz will lose the fight by a smaller margin than Condit would if it goes to the ground. That’s not much of a plus, really.

        As for the standup, I like Condit’s power more than Diaz’s flurries. In a fight against the best wrestler in MMA, you need to be able to put him down fast or risk a recovery takedown/wall hump, which means you have to be packing some power. Condit can hit a homer like Serra did and swarm on the follow-up. We know he’s got one punch KO power, and he should have plenty of reach. On the other hand, even if Diaz can land a punch on GSP (I don’t think he can), he needs GSP to stand there and take it for like two straight minutes.

        So, I like Condit’s chances at an upset more than Diaz, but I think this stems more from the fact that I think Diaz is overrated than it does from me considering Condit better than everyone else thinks he is. Nick probably loses a closer fight though, for whatever that’s worth.

  16. edub says:

    If BJ fights Anderson I am going to shit myself.

  17. EJ says:

    Well this is the second time that I get to crow that I told you so. I never for a second understood why the UFC would go out of their way to try and sign Nick Diaz and to hand him a WW title shot that he simple didn’t deserve. And him pulling this stunt is not only not surprising but it hopefully will wake up Zuffa who hasn’t been acting like themselves with some of their match making and decisions as of late.

    Nick Diaz is nothing more than another built up myth by hardcores, the guy has been ducking top wrestlers since he left the UFC and had zero shot at beating GSP. Condit on the other hand is a guy who’s actually fought top guys and hasn’t ducked anyone, he should have been given the next title shot after smashing DHK.

    Thankfully everything worked out for the best, now we not only have a much better fight but we’ll have a guy who is going to test GSP everywhere the fight goes. Condit won’t just lay on his back and allow him to win a decision, he’s going to try and knock his head off and on the ground he’s going to attack GSP for all 5 rounds. This is a dream match for me and anyone saying that this isn’t a better fight is simply driking the Nick Diaz kool-aid. Condit is everything that people hype up Nick Diaz to be exciting, won’t quick, won’t back down and doesn’t duck anbody and is a top 5 legit WW, he’s everything except the hype.

  18. bluerosekiller says:

    Well, F**K!
    I’m just good & bloody gutted over this shocker.
    I mean, WTF?!!
    I know no one out there cares, but I’m one basically broke ass MMA fan who happens to live on a fixed income. I’m on disability & have to be EXTREMELY selective about which PPVs I purchase.
    But, Diaz’s shot against GSP was one that I had no questions about buying whatsoever. I was VERY much looking forward to it. And the fact that one of my other fav current fighters in Matt Mitrione is facing his biggest test on the undercard made me salivate for the event even more…
    Now?
    I’m not gonna bother.
    Even though Condit is a fairly dangerous 170 lber who deserving of a shot, he’s hardly one of my fav fighters & although I respect the hell out of him, neither is GSP.
    And to top it all off, the career of one of my very favorite fighters is in serious jeoprody. I mean, is there’s not a SERIOUSLY good explaination for this disaster from Diaz’s end, Dana will likely cut him.
    Where’s he go then?
    Bellator?
    That Canadian outfit?
    The UK?
    This just sucks!!!

    Jim

    • bluerosekiller says:

      OK, how about this?
      I’ve seen the YouTube video now & really don’t know what to make of it other than Diaz appears to be saying that his no show was caused by him missing his flight. Which, is no excuse at all really as he’s a grown ass man who should be responsible enough to make it to the airport on time. Especially now that he’s in the “big leagues” now.
      This isn’t Strikeforce where Scott coker would bend over backwards for Nick & make apologies for him.
      And, with network television in the mix now & big $$$ involved, this isn’t the UFC that he was used to dealing with back in the day either.
      Things are on a whole new level now, one that can’t hinge on Diaz’s whims & dodgy decision making.
      But, regardless, Nick is THE most attractive challenger for GSP & it’s a fight destined to make a TON of money.
      So, my thought is, what if Dana were to make Diaz a take it or leave the organization offer now.
      Offer him a spot on the undercard. Make him fight for the right to meet the winner of GSP-Condit next. It would keep him in the public eye, whet their appetite for his title shot should he win & also serve notice that he has to toe the line now & get with the program if he wants the big fights & the big $$$.

      What do you think?

      Jim

  19. RST says:

    He’s functional enough.
    He’s not addicted to crack.

    He comes out of his house to train and swerve dangerously in and out of the interchange while recording a youtube rant in his car.

    If he CANT show up and do the things he SAID he would do, and he CANT even take the blame or responsibility for his own failures, then screw him.

    That doesn’t deserve bleeding heart sympathy.

    Dana went out of his way to offer this thankless snot a ton of money for a fight that he didn’t even deserve.

    And this is the thanks Dana, MMA fans, the gracie team and GSP gets.

    This should be the last straw, Diaz is a GOOD fighter but he just isn’t bigtime material.

    If I was Dana in a vengeance mode, I’d give Diaz what Diaz is giving: I’d shelve him under this new contract like they did to AA a few years back.

    No Boxing,
    No MMA,
    just sit on him for a year or two so Diaz can complain on youtube about how everybody treats him unfairly and thats why he cant afford a new car.

  20. 45 Huddle says:

    If Nick Diaz isn’t cut, he will be fed to Jon Fitch next. Those are his only two options moving forward…

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