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Can’t-miss report on the chaos and disorganization with Strikeforce and Showtime
By Zach Arnold | June 17, 2010
This is the passage from this morning’s Observer radio show that I wanted to focus on. Believe me, just reading this and not even listening to the audio, your first impression is to pull a Vince Lombardi and say ‘what the hell is going on out here?!’
Take note of a big injury issue that has surfaced to one of the champions in the company. It’s bad enough that the promotion can barely get title defenses out of their guys (and the titles mean nothing), but listening to the confusion about who’s fighting in what weight division is amazing for a promotion backed by the resources of Showtime.
The most amazing thing is despite Middleweight being the strongest division for Strikeforce, they still don’t seem to have a concrete plan in place for the talent that will fight in this proposed 8-man tournament once Jake Shields likely signs with the UFC. (I have a Scott Coker interview to transcribe later on this matter.)
The first part of this passage deals with the production that we saw from Showtime last night and how not to build up fighters. This goes back to what Larry Pepe recently said about the promotion being a “super fight” only promotion that struggles to build any consistency from show-to-show.
BRYAN ALVAREZ: “I got a couple of criticisms about this show and one of them is the post-fight… I mean…”
DAVE MELTZER: “They didn’t do post-fight interviews and the show went short!”
BRYAN ALVAREZ: “Well, let me talk about this here very quickly. Until the middle, until after the first round of the main event, when they interviewed King Mo between round one and round two, I don’t want to come across like Vince Russo here and God knows, let me tell you, I don’t want to come across like Vince Russo but… everyone they interviewed on this show could barely speak English. They interviewed Cris Cyborg and no translator and you could hardly understand a thing she was saying. Then they interviewed (Fabricio) Werdum, no translator, you could hardly figure out what he was saying. And meanwhile, KJ Noons and Conor Heun have this slobberknocker of a battle and they didn’t find either of these men worth of a post-fight interview? I mean, I’m not saying…”
DAVE MELTZER: “I was dumbfounded and even more (Tim) Kennedy goes out there and has this great win and he’s this guy with this great story and let me tell you something, Kennedy can talk, you know I mean… I talked to him a couple of times in the last week alone, this guy can talk and you know for… he’s um… you know… he’s pretty cocky. I mean, you know, if you talk to him, I mean he… he’s not a shy guy and he will tell you, you know, that you know where he thinks he stands and I mean he’s, he would a great television interview. I don’t… I could not believe that they didn’t interview Kennedy and that you know Noons and Conor Heun… They should have interviewed both guys after that fight, that was a, you know, those two guys put on a great show and you know Noons… Noons is a good talker and Noons would have said a lot of stuff because at the press conference, I mean among the things you know Noons said that he wants to win the title at 155. Right now, I think Gilbert Melendez in fact I know he’s got I believe a broken hand and he’s needing surgery and he’s going to be out for a while, but he wants to win the title at 155. Then he wants to beat Nick Diaz at 170.”
BRYAN ALVAREZ: “Good luck with all this, Noons. Good luck with all this.”
DAVE MELTZER: “Well, and then he wants to win a boxing championship.”
BRYAN ALVAREZ: “Well, good luck with that.”
DAVE MELTZER: “Yeah, well… that one I don’t know about. I don’t know about him winning a boxing championship.”
That’s a problem that can be fixed over time as long as the production team and the people in charge show some discipline.
These next matters, however, are not so easy to fix.
DAVE MELTZER: “I guess (Nick) Diaz is suspended.”
BRYAN ALVAREZ: “I did not hear that.”
DAVE MELTZER: “Yes, 90 days from, here’s the deal… Diaz is suspended 90 days from the time that he returns a form to Tennessee which will then count the suspension from that point.”
BRYAN ALVAREZ: “So he better get on that.”
DAVE MELTZER: “And they’re like scared that he’s going to like never return the form so he’ll be like suspended forever.”
BRYAN ALVAREZ: “That’s possible, actually. Very possible.”
DAVE MELTZER: “So they’re trying to make sure that he fills out that form and gets the clock ticking on that suspension so he can, because I was asking like when he’s going to defend the title and it’s like, you know, he’s got 90 days suspension right now, you know that he’s got to go through before he can fight anyone.”
BRYAN ALVAREZ: “Going back to the interviews. I don’t want to sit here and say that only people who speak good English should do promos but for God’s sake, you’re going to create stars by letting charismatic guys go out there and talk and the people that they had cutting the promos… Cyborg’s promo didn’t add a single viewer to the 26th. Werdum’s promo didn’t add a single viewer to the 26th. And the first guy, the first guy that speaks good English and is charismatic, King Mo, they interviewed him between round one and round two of (Renato) Sobral and (Robbie) Lawler.”
DAVE MELTZER: “So he’s got to just get in and out, he didn’t have any time.”
BRYAN ALVAREZ: “Oh yeah, he had less than a minute. The girl asked him like a question and she kind of played the old Christy Hemme role where she asked a question, he got about four words out, and then she cut him off and grabbed the mic to ask her next question and I as like, what was even the point of doing this? This was more counterproductive than anything. AND THEN, and then, they’re asking him about facing Sobral for the 205-pound title and he’s like, well, WE’RE FRIENDS. So, then at the end of the main event, they ask Sobral if you want this 205-pound fight with King Mo and he’s like WE’RE FRIENDS, I could never punch my friend. I want Dan Henderson. And I was like, you have got to be kidding me.”
DAVE MELTZER: “It was amazing because Scott Coker was billing this main event as if Lawler wins, he’s in line for you know he would probably… get a shot at the Middleweight title but the deal on this is kind of weird because what you know (Jake) Shields is almost for sure leaving, I mean you know no one can say it because it’s not done, but he’s probably leaving. So they’re going to do an 8-man tournament, so… you know, I mean, if Lawler wins he gets in the 8-man tournament. Well, Lawler lost tonight and I’m almost sure he’s going to be in, you know, an 8-man for Strikeforce at Middleweight, I think he’s going to make the cut somehow. So he’s going to bei n this tournament anyway even though he lost and I’m not saying he shouldn’t be, either, you know this is a split decision, he lost to a bigger guy and you know and Sobral’s a good fighter you know I mean it wasn’t like he lost to a slouch and it wasn’t like he wasn’t competitive with him and you know perhaps if he had started a little quicker and been a little more aggressive in certain spots he would have won the fight. He could have won the fight. Sobral, you know, if he won he was supposed to get a shot at Mo, so he won and he doesn’t want the shot and he afterwards I did not did speak to him personally, but there were people who did and he was apparently adamant that he would not fight Mo. And Scott Coker was you know ‘friends, if you got to fight you got to fight’ and apparently he’s…”
BRYAN ALVAREZ: “You don’t!”
DAVE MELTZER: “Well, yeah, you don’t! No one can make you fight someone you don’t want to fight. I mean, no promoter can do that, you know I mean, people can pressure you into this and that but… you know, yeah, I think Sobral, you know, I don’t see Sobral and Mo, they’re not going to fight each other, so there you go.”
Topics: Media, MMA, StrikeForce, Zach Arnold | 17 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
Atleast Strikeforce or Showtime understand’s Muhammed Lawal is someone you want to build a buisness around.
Yeah, I thought it was especially ridiculous the way the announcers kept hyping the main event as “Strikeforce president Scott Coker says that a title shot goes to the winner in his respective weight class.” Aside from the fact that nobody gives a crap about Strikeforce’s meaningless titles, how can two guys in different weight classes determine a number 1 contendership for a title in a weight class the loser is not even in?
And when will Strikeforce understand that their title belts are merely a technicality. For a promotion like Strikeforce, your real champion is the guy who proves himself to be the baddest of the bad. Not the guy who happened to decision the guy you declared champion because he won one big fight. In this sense, Fedor is the obvious heavyweight ‘champ’ of Strikeforce, not Overeem. Coker needs to understand that the normal rules of contendership are unnecessary for his type of promotion. Good, or especially exciting fighters don’t need to go to the back of the line just because they lose a title fight or contenders match. Strikeforce needs guys like Mousassi, Lawler, Babalu, King Mo, Melendez, Bigfoot Silva to fight often, even if it’s against fighters they’ve already beaten. There doesn’t need to be this UFC-like thing where the champ has to wait to see who wins the contenders match, then we wait a few months while the champ and the #1 contender go through a full camp.
Coker needs to understand that the normal rules of contendership are unnecessary for his type of promotion.
It seems to me like he’s trying to do what he should be doing and cater to people who demand a promotional narrative at the same time. And its stupid. They should just be a superfight promotion – they can’t realistically make up entire weight classes of world class guys, and they’re going to get guys poached regularly by the UFC whenever they attain a certain level of success.
I agree this strikeforce title stuff is ridiculous. They dont have enough fighters to have real divisions or more than one or two actual contenders.
They actually said Babalu was “in line for a title shot” if he won. How does beating a 185lb fighter in a catchweight fight get you a title shot at 205? His only fight since getting KTFO and losing in a title fight is against a guy who never fought at 205. That gets you a title shot?? Insane.
They’re not at the level to be judicious about title shots, that’s no secret. As Alan pointed out, there is no way they have anything close to a stacked division; everything is splintered and you’re left with guys jumping weight classes to make up cards. There’s no way anybody can defend that as a good thing.
The closest thing they have to a division anybody cares about is Heavyweight and even that is incredibly fragile since you never know what Fedor wants to do at any given moment, and your HW champion doesn’t even seem interested in fighting in America, which limits you because you only run in America. I remember a suggestion somewhere else (might have been on one of the F4Wonline shows) where since CBS is pissed at them going over time so much they should just do a tape delay card with DREAM in Japan. That may be what they’ll have to do to make Overeem happy.
But yeah, remember so many orgs (including UFC at certain points) had nothing resembling complete divisions and just ran superfights for no rhyme or reason other than they thought it might sell. So Strikeforce might as well give up and do that until they can get their shit together (which isn’t likely.)
And they have nothing set-up once they put on Fedor/Overeem. There are no new challengers. Nobody interesting at all.
With one more win I’m sure Antonio Silva could be a serviceable transition opponent while they look for the next big contender.
Winner of Bobby Lashley vs. Dave Batista!
“The most amazing thing is despite Middleweight being the strongest division for Strikeforce, they still don’t seem to have a concrete plan in place for the talent that will fight in this proposed 8-man tournament once Jake Shields likely signs with the UFC.”
That isn’t remarkable in the slightest. It is a fluid situation that hinges on whether or not they can retain Shields. Right now, nobody really knows where he will end up. On top of that, they have about 15 or 16 viable candidates in the middleweight division, so narrowing it down to an eight man field is going to be difficult no matter how you cut it.
Do you really think they should be booking tournament bouts before the Shields thing is resolved?
You keep on posting this dilusional concept every few weeks. I laugh more and more each time. The division, even in the UFC, is not very strong. Sure there are a lot of fighters in the division, but it’s not very strong at all across the entire sport. The bread and butter of MMA has always been LHW and WW. Middleweight is the ugly step child.
But let’s look at those 16 Middleweights…. In no exact order:
1. Jake Shields
2. Dan Henderson
3. Ronaldo Souza
4. Matt Lindland
5. Tim Kennedy
6. Robbie Lawler
7. Cung Le
8. Scott Smith
9. Frank Shamrock
10. Trevor Prangley
11. Jason Miller
12. Luke Rockhold
13. Joey Villasenor
14. Renato Sobral
15. Melvin Manhoef
16. Karl Amoussou
Jake Shields is heading to the UFC. It’s just going to happen. Discussing him with Strikeforce is useless at this point.
Dan Henderson, Matt Lindland, & Trevor Prangley have seen their better days. They are all on the downside of their careers. I can’t imagine any of them being much of a factor by the time the tournament is over in 2011. I wouldn’t put Matt Hughes or Chuck Liddell in discussion for a title in the year 2011. Why would I do the same for these 3? They all look old.
Cung Le & Frank Shamrock are highly unlikely to fight in a tournament like this. They are sideshow fighters at this point and gain nothing by exposing themselves more to better fighters. I would be shocked if either of their names were even considered for the tournament.
Ronaldo Souza & Tim Kennedy. The two younger, better fighters of this division. I wouldn’t mind just seeing these 2 guys in a title fight at this point.
Renato Sobral. Still a wild card. Will they even want to put him in the Middleweight Tournament if they need him at Light Heavyweight? Still, if he enters, he looked solid at 195. Would have to see him make the full cut first to see how he looks.
Robbie Lawler, Luke Rockhold, Jason Miller, Joey Villasenor, Melvin Manhoef, Karl Amoussou, & Scott Smith. Decent fighters at this point, but they are no different then about 15 fighters the UFC has on their roster who have around .500 records in their organizations.
Personally, I would rather see them do a 4-man tournament at this point.
Ronaldo Souza, Tim Kennedy, Renato Sobral, & Lindland/Henderson. That’s all they need. An 8-man tournament is going to be hard to pull off with injuries and scheduling issues….
I didn’t realize that they skipped out on the interviews. I watched the event today and fastfowarded through the fights. Kennedy is a guy they needed to interview.
I thought during the Noons fight, one of the cameramen was HORRIBLE!! He kept on zooming in near their heads and you couldn’t see the kicks being thrown.
The idea that a 195 fight could get either winner a title fight in their respective divisions is a joke.
Strikeforce has a huge issue after the Fedor card. With the exception of Lawal, they have none of their champions available to fight. And Lawal really has nobody interesting. Nobody cares about Lawal vs. Babalu.
Look at how the UFC’s business struggled when their top guys were out. Their PPV numbers were way down. Their gates were down. Strikeforce is going to have the same problems. The difference is that they don’t have the margins to work with like Zuffa does.
And I could be wrong on this, but doesn’t Lawal train with Dan Henderson? I always thought they weren’t going to fight each other. So if he won’t fight Babalu. And he won’t fight Henderson…. He is left with nobody.
It’s getting bad on so many levels.
Yes, he trains at Quest.
I didn’t have a problem with letting Werdum on camera to speak his little hype spiel.
He is fighting Fedor and headlining a card next week.
And he speaks good enough english to say “its my time”, “he’s a great fighter”, “I’ve trained hard”, etc.
Whats else is he supposed to say or talk about?
Obama’s handling of the gulf coast?
Now next week nitwits who dont know who he is yet can at least say, “I’ve seen that dude before”.
They’ll probably feel more familiar with Verdum then Fedor since they’ve heard more words out of Verdums mouth.
Plus I’d rather listen to Cris Cyborg describe how yellow her pencil is then listen to anything out of noons mouth.
But I’ll admit thats a personal preference.
🙂
BTW: Diaz is suspended?
Whats the problem now?
PLEASE edit Meltzers quotes. Reading all the “umm’s” and “you know’s” and his broken thoughts make my eyes bleed. It would also cut all of his quotes in half.
“The idea that a 195 fight could get either winner a title fight in their respective divisions is a joke.”
Didn’t Vitor Belfort earn a shot @ the 185 title off a win @ 195? Why weren’t you crying about that one?
“Didn’t Vitor Belfort earn a shot @ the 185 title off a win @ 195? Why weren’t you crying about that one?”
Leaving out the fact that he fought at 185 twice with to emphatic KOs before that, eh. You prolly got all happy just to contradict something he said. Also Rich has been theoretically the 2nd best guy at 185 for a long time. Babalu was gonna fight once at 195(the first time in his career below 205 and a former HW) and then get a shot at the champ at 205. Kinda like comparing apples to watermelons.
Honestly, who cares? Did it make any “storyline” sense to have Sean Sherk fight for a vacant lightweight title? People still accept the UFC lightweight crown.
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