« Thursday trash talk: More UFC in the UK | Home | Friday fight notes before Super Bowl ‘08 »
Quote of the Day - Dana White on Randy Couture
By Zach Arnold | February 1, 2008
With the UFC suing heavyweight champion Randy Couture over Couture’s decision to walk away from his contract, the heavyweight title remains in limbo. White challenged Couture on Thursday to end the infighting.
“Come on Captain America, step up and be a man and give these guys the opportunity to win the title,” White said.
“He’s the heavyweight champion. He signed a contract with us less than a year ago and I expect him to honour it. And I expect him to be a standup guy and give these guys the opportunities they gave him.”
Topics: MMA, Media, UFC, Zach Arnold | | Permalink | Trackback | Share This
What is he asking for? Randy to come back and fight? Physically return the belt? Or is he just taunting him?
I love Dana White
Dana White is asking Randy Couture to honor his contract that he signed and give the other heavyweights a chance to win the belt from him legitimately.
Randy would never do that because he fear a loss would damage his reputation before the possible fight with Fedor Emelienenko. He’s 44 and he’s not getting any younger. There is a very real chance that he could lose to Nogueira or Sylvia.
He’s a smart business man. I can’t say I respect him as a fighter though.
so what happens if he wins? he’s forced to renegotiate before his last fight and we’re back to where we started.
Agh, Cyphron did Randy have NO fear then of Gonzaga beating him? Gonzaga devastated Cro Cop and was a lot younger than Randy, yet Randy defended the belt against him. And btw, he DID beat Sylvia not THAT long ago. Remember??
Dont believe that liar Dana White. And don’t buy into UFC’s attempt to bury another legend.
Beating someone in the past does not mean you will beat him in the future. Couture was an underdog in both fights in which he won which is simply amazing. However, he will be an underdog again if he were to fight again with Sylvia.
Randy is a legend, for sure. But what I can’t wrap my mind around is that (1) he was given an instant title fight right after a demoralizing retirement after a loss, and (2) he signed a contract that he was absolutely happy with at that time.
Do any of you actually believe that Randy would have walked away from his contract had he lost instead of pulling off those two great upsets? If he hated Dana White so much, why didn’t he just walk away from the game the first time? Why did he ask Dana for that new contract?
Dana White is no saint and we all know that. But we shouldn’t automatically put Randy Couture on that saint-hood pedestal as well because of his “Captain America” persona. He’s as much as snake as any one in the MMA business.
is white pathetic or is couture pathetic?
i don’t recall randy saying he hated dana white, but I may just have not caught it. i don’t pay as much attention to the contract side of the sport. he seems like as much of a businessman as anyone else in the game.
Do any of you actually believe that Randy would have walked away from his contract had he lost instead of pulling off those two great upsets?
There’s a pretty good chance he would have. Even if he theoretically lost and theoretically would have stayed and fought anyhow, well, is it even a relevant point? Not really. But that’s okay. Athletes shouldn’t care about themselves. We get the score.
“Randy would never do that because he fear a loss would damage his reputation before the possible fight with Fedor Emelienenko. He’s 44 and he’s not getting any younger. There is a very real chance that he could lose to Nogueira or Sylvia.
He’s a smart business man. I can’t say I respect him as a fighter though”
Nah, you’ve got it backwards. He’s not afraid of losing a fight before the Fedor showdown; he’s actually afraid of winning too many fights. He wisely recognized that if he beat his opponents during the last two fights on his UFC contract, Fedor would view him as legit competition and would take a fight with Min Soo Kim instead.
I also don’t see how being upset you’re not fighting the best fighter in the world instead of PRIDE’s #2 and a dude you already beat is a bad thing. I guess being motivated to fight the best isn’t the sort of thing a real fighter feels.
Randy Couture should have fought the last two fights on his contract. Had Randy stuck around, he would have had a fight for UFC 81 and another one in the spring/summer. Then he could have left. If the UFC tries to use the champion’s clause (that is if he remains champion), the courts will rule in favor of Randy anyway. BJ Penn’s contract term was expired but Zuffa took him to court for signing with K-1 because of the champion’s clause. The courts ruled in favor of BJ Penn though and he competed in K-1 a few months after his final UFC fight on the contract. If Randy completed all four fights and still remained the champion, the UFC wouldn’t have a leg to stand on just like they didn’t in the BJ Penn case. Now Randy Couture is risking being sidelined for a long while and he’d be forced to fight at a later date with Fedor than he would have if he just honored his contract for 2 more fights.
I just don’t get why people are so up in arm’s over what Couture did. They’re acting like he’s the first athlete that’s ever taken issue with the terms of his contract while still under contract.
Holdouts happen all the time and are usually dealt with accordingly. Most times teams renegotiate a contract or trade the disgruntled athlete (that’s not really a possibility here - but they could easily charge out Randy’s services like M-1 does with Fedor could they not?).
It’s retarded to try to make him out to be some pariah for seeing that he’s not getting what his market value is (among other complaints - real or not) when it’s a commonplace occurrence in professional sports. Hell I don’t even think he’s the first MMA fighter to do so (Mirko at the GP and Tito come to mind immediately).
Dave2 and I actually agreed on something. =)
Speaking of Mirko holding out at the GP, what was he making in PRIDE exactly? If it’s really true that DSE wasn’t paying him enough, then DSE must be real cheap because in the UFC he only gets $245k a fight($105k goes to foreign taxes to the US government). Gomi is making $188k per fight in Japan now but yet Cro Cop, whose a celebrity over in Japan, got less in PRIDE than in the UFC? That’s crazy.
I think a lot of it had to do with the fact that at that point (Mirko’s contract was up), DSE no longer had the FujiTV and advertising monies to play around with in order to sign the big names. And I don’t think the yakuza that was behind the scenes had any desire to play this game with their own money.
I’d be interested to know what the actual figures were for fighters prior to the whole scandal that brought the company to its knees.
Dave2 says:
“Randy Couture should have fought the last two fights on his contract. Had Randy stuck around, he would have had a fight for UFC 81 and another one in the spring/summer. Then he could have left. If the UFC tries to use the champion’s clause (that is if he remains champion), the courts will rule in favor of Randy anyway”
Whats the difference between him leaving with 2 fights on his contract or him not fulfilling the champions clause?
Both are stipulations in his contract, its not like its a weighted contract. Either way if he did what your suggesting, he would have broken his contract.
I think the basic idea is that whether the “champion’s clause” is in the contract or not, it’s likely to be upheld as enforceable by the courts. And in the past it hasn’t been enforced either (Pulver, Penn).
A fight contract is enforceable in court. The champion clause isn’t.
The UFC is suing Randy for his employment contract right now, but that doesn’t mean they don’t have a case against him for breach of the fight contract. Once the contract expires and Randy attempts to fights again, they will sue him for breach of contract which is a separate lawsuit. It’s diabolical, but I suspect the UFC will tie Randy in court for awhile. Win or not, Randy may lose one or more years fighting it.
The UFC is suing Randy for his employment contract right now, but that doesn’t mean they don’t have a case against him for breach of the fight contract. Once the contract expires and Randy attempts to fights again, they will sue him for breach of contract which is a separate lawsuit. It’s diabolical, but I suspect the UFC will tie Randy in court for awhile. Win or not, Randy may lose one or more years fighting it.
Its also possible they may not have a case for either and this is just an attempt to prevent him from fighting period by throwing out litigation.
“He wisely recognized that if he beat his opponents during the last two fights on his UFC contract, Fedor would view him as legit competition and would take a fight with Min Soo Kim instead.”
LOL This is possibly the funniest/stupidest thing I’ve ever read on a MMA forum. Thanks for the laugh!
If you think Fedor Emelianenko is afraid of a fighter - any fighter - you don’t know anything about him, or MMA in general.
“Whats the difference between him leaving with 2 fights on his contract or him not fulfilling the champions clause?
Both are stipulations in his contract, its not like its a weighted contract. Either way if he did what your suggesting, he would have broken his contract.”
The difference is that the champion’s clause hasn’t held up in court before (BJ Penn case and Pulver may have had the same clause too when he left) so if the champion’s clause is all that Randy had to worry about, his freedom would be in the bag. But with 2 fights left on the contract, I don’t think the courts will let him off easy. If so that would be a huge precedent. BJ Penn didn’t have any more fights remaining on his contract so he didn’t have this issue. I don’t know about Pulver.
“I think a lot of it had to do with the fact that at that point (Mirko’s contract was up), DSE no longer had the FujiTV and advertising monies to play around with in order to sign the big names. And I don’t think the yakuza that was behind the scenes had any desire to play this game with their own money.
I’d be interested to know what the actual figures were for fighters prior to the whole scandal that brought the company to its knees.”
That probably would be it. With DSE bleeding funds, it would make sense why they couldn’t cough up the money to stay competitive enough to keep Cro Cop.
The whole Zuffa lawsuit is stupid. If Couture lending his name to the IFL pisses Dana off so much, Randy could just tell the guys to change the name to Team Tompkins. Tompkins is the coach anyway. But then there’s the whole “libel” thing in the lawsuits but that’s a load of BS. America has too many lawyers. Lawyers make a mountain out of a mole hill with this “libel” stuff.
“The whole Zuffa lawsuit is stupid. If Couture lending his name to the IFL pisses Dana off so much, Randy could just tell the guys to change the name to Team Tompkins. Tompkins is the coach anyway. But then there’s the whole “libel” thing in the lawsuits but that’s a load of BS. America has too many lawyers. Lawyers make a mountain out of a mole hill with this “libel” stuff.”
How does libel play into this? Libel is intentionally lying about someone in writing or type with the purpose of attacking one’s character, and said like it is truth. Slander is the same thing but spoken word. It is all part of defamation. Changing the team name to Team Tompkins isn’t libel. I’m sorry, but I don’t see where you are going with mentioning libel. Or do you mean liable?
“If you think Fedor Emelianenko is afraid of a fighter - any fighter - you don’t know anything about him, or MMA in general.”
It might not be Fedor but someone behind the scenes isn’t pairing him up with top fighters.
Final Conflict ‘05 was the last time I cared about Fedor fighting.
That’s not crazy. That’s reality. Thank you for echoing my point from Gomi signing with WVR thread. Until an organization can pay fighters the millions that fans expect and be profitable at it, pay scales are what they are.
It’s the same reason Lesnar is getting 250 + 200k. That’s business and the way of life in our capitalist society. That’s why I will never blame the UFC for underpaying unknown fighters who don’t sell tickets. The UFC being profitable and growing guarantees MMA for the foreseeable future.
I have no faith in EliteXC or any of the wannabes to continue the MMA game. They don’t know how to run the business as well as Zuffa. They only want a piece of the pie.
Most haters blame the UFC for doing unseemly things that offend their sense of justice. But that’s how business works. If they run a charity like the wish of most here, we would be still talking about the WWE and not MMA.
Cyphron, have you looked at a UFC payscale? Something like half the roster on a typical card makes less than $16,000 a fight. That is ridiculous for a company that brings in $40+ million pre-tax profit.
“Cyphron, have you looked at a UFC payscale? Something like half the roster on a typical card makes less than $16,000 a fight. That is ridiculous for a company that brings in $40+ million pre-tax profit.”
EXACTLY. When Floyd Mayweather Jr. makes more money in 2007 than every single UFC fighter COMBINED - that’s enough for me to raise an eyebrow.
And I know, no one said life is fair. But when a company makes $40M+ off a PPV event, and the fighters risking their health to put on the show are making the equivalent of minimum wage, that’s well beyond ‘fairness’ - it’s a f’ing heist.
Cyphron is right that this is how businesses operate. Make no mistake, I don’t think Zuffa is any more evil than most of the corporations out there. Zuffa is just like how sports teams were like decades ago when players didn’t have a union to defend their interests.
Unfortunately that is how it is in the corrupt big profits-first, human life second anti-social world of neoliberal ideology. For every CEO that has a reputation for being good to their workers (ie. James Sinegal of Costco, Henry Ford, etc.), there are dozens of leeches who couldn’t give a rat’s ass about their employees (and customers). For most corporations, they could care less about the social cost of their anti-social exploitation of the working poor. We like to spew about the virtues of “free market” capitalism and denounce socialist policies and labor laws that benefit the poor while turning a blind eye to the government largess that corporations benefit from. This has been a general trend that we’ve seen from the late 70s onward as opposed to the regulated capitalism that we saw during WWII to the 70s.
North America and the UK is turning back to the times when workers were treated like cattle, just as my relatives were when they arrived at Ellis Island. So excuse those of us who have a bit of human compassion to our fellow man, whether they be fighters who entertain us, immigrants who are hired illegally to provide food for us at our local grocery market or single moms who provide service at Wal-Mart.
How long has boxing been around? How many PPVs did Floyd Mayweather generate directly because of him? How much are UFC’s operating expenses? If fighters are being treated so unjustly and can’t make a living, why do they continue to do it? You should strongly conider these questions before you decide that fighters are being exploited.
“And I know, no one said life is fair. But when a company makes $40M+ off a PPV event, and the fighters risking their health to put on the show are making the equivalent of minimum wage, that’s well beyond ‘fairness’ - it’s a f’ing heist.”
Damn man, what are you talking about? Dave2 was saying 40m pre-tax profit per year, not per event. Lets say average UFC events run 450000 PPV buys at 40/buy, we’re looking at 18 million REVENUE per event. Half of that goes to the PPV company, so 9 million revenue per event. Factor in salaries for staff, advertising costs, other expenses regarding travel/hotel/medical, so on and so forth, I’d be surprised if the UFC tops 4 million pretax profit per event.
That doesn’t factor a variety of other revenue streams the UFC receives, but it also doesn’t factor in the costs of expanding the business in Europe and elsewhere. Some of that money comes out of the fighters pockets, but growing the sport will pay dividends to fighters down the road. Moreover, the UFC has to plan for a potential downturn in buys, be it recession in the economy or otherwise. If they lock in too many high-priced contracts, they may suddenly find themselves hemorrhaging money if PPV buys drop.
They could do with having better contracts for the undercard fighters. But as long as the UFC shows a willingness to invest in the sport, which will pay dividends to the fighters, I’m prone to let it go.
I have no faith in EliteXC or any of the wannabes to continue the MMA game. They don’t know how to run the business as well as Zuffa. They only want a piece of the pie.
The inability to make obvious connections is fantastic with you. Uhh, Zuffa doesn’t care about the “MMA game” apart from being its biggest promotional entity and making the most money they can. They are interested in controlling the whole pie. You mildly acknowledge this and then move on to talk about the “free market” while deriding those fighters utilizing the free market to their benefit as not being “real fighters”. Its glorious, really.
I also love how haters don’t realize that the fight purse in only one source of revenue a fighter can make. A lot of fighters teach on the seminar circuit, do endorsements, sell their own merchandise, do appearances and/or open their own gyms. Once you’ve fought in the UFC, that’s huge commodity worth more than the actual purse they get for fighting.
I also love how haters don’t realize that the fight purse in only one source of revenue a fighter can make. A lot of fighters teach on the seminar circuit, do endorsements, sell their own merchandise, do appearances and/or open their own gyms.
I was unaware that these things were specific to MMA as a sport. Silly me, thinking that other athletes had access to endorsement deals.
Then why do all the pundits complaining about fighters not being able to make a living from the purse alone never mention these additional revenue streams?
Uhh, Zuffa doesn’t care about the “MMA game” apart from being its biggest promotional entity and making the most money they can. They are interested in controlling the whole pie. You mildly acknowledge this and then move on to talk about the “free market” while deriding those fighters utilizing the free market to their benefit as not being “real fighters”. Its glorious, really.
Wow, you’re naive. Of course they’re interested in controlling the whole pie. If I’m a stockholder, I don’t expect anything less from the company. However, making money is not mutually exclusive from the company wanting to grow MMA. Growth of MMA = growth of profit.
I have never derided any fighters from using the free market for their benefit. But lets throw straw man arguments out there why don’t we?
I have always supported fighters’ rights as long as they do within the constraint of the legal system. A contract should not be breached just because a fighter feel he’s underpaid.
The difference is subtle but there is a difference.
Then why do all the pundits complaining about fighters not being able to make a living from the purse alone never mention these additional revenue streams?
Because its an irrelevant point? Besides, the UFC restricts the ability of its athletes to be endorsed like few, if any, major corporations. The only parallel I can think of is NASCAR refusing Playboy a sponsorship in the sport.
Wow, you’re naive. Of course they’re interested in controlling the whole pie.
How many times do I have to say I’m aware of why they’re doing it? Does that mean I have to agree or like it? Oh, wait, I never get that answer. Meanwhile, fighters are bad because they want more money utilizing the free market.
However, making money is not mutually exclusive from the company wanting to grow MMA. Growth of MMA = growth of profit.
Company growth exists independant of the growth of MMA. Wait, that point’s been made a bunch and you never have anything to say about it other than repeating your previous opinions.
I have never derided any fighters from using the free market for their benefit.
Of course you have. You’ve criticized Tito, Couture, and Arlovski numerous times. Especially Couture.
I have always supported fighters’ rights as long as they do within the constraint of the legal system. A contract should not be breached just because a fighter feel he’s underpaid.
What proof do you have that anyone’s breached their contract? Any? Or do you prefer to just keep saying that while alternately talking about how Couture isn’t being honest ot something?
What proof do you have that anyone’s breached their contract? Any? Or do you prefer to just keep saying that while alternately talking about how Couture isn’t being honest ot something?
You’re basically saying that Couture has fufilled his contract and Zuffa is sicking their lawyers on him unjustifiably?
If that’s your position, then there’s no point in arguing with you at all, now is there? I’ll just go argue with a wall then.
You’re basically saying that Couture has fufilled his contract and Zuffa is sicking their lawyers on him unjustifiably?
Are you saying that Zuffa is somehow more ethical than other corporations, much less fight promoters, whom have used lawsuits, even ones they cannot possibly win, to try and protect their interests? Dana White is taking a page out of the Don King playbook and he’s got you going along with it. Its really funny.
Trolling 101: Can’t deal with the answer, change the topic.
Trolling 101: Can’t deal with the answer, change the topic.
Its much more fun to think that people filing lawsuit is proof of wrong doing on the part of those being sued. What good would it do for the UFC to tie up Randy Couture in legal limbo and prevent the fight from coming off if they lose the suit? Amazingly, I am nieve. Comedy ensues.