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UFC media notebook (March 10th)
By Zach Arnold | March 10, 2009
Rashad Evans thinks he’s facing Machida on May 23rd in Las Vegas. I like the fight and it makes the most sense, as Rampage can face Evans no matter what happens on 5/23.
Quote of the Day
From The Columbus Dispatch newspaper in Ohio:
A friend who attended his first Ultimate Fighting Championship event Saturday night in Nationwide Arena wasn’t impressed with the brawling (“90 percent of it is boxing, and they’re bad boxers”) and said it will never go mainstream unless they clean it up. That works for me. I’m not sure we want head kicks in the mainstream. It moves us that much closer to Rollerball.
Reading Material
- Jonathan Snowden: UFC’s false advertising of Mir-Lesnar II
- Setanta Sports: The Rampage Jackson epic continues
- The London Telegraph: Jacob “Stitch” Duran is the ‘father’ of UFC cutmen
- The Sudsbury Star (Ontario, Canada): Referee Yves Lavigne admits to making mistake during Pete Sell fight
- MMA Weekly: Respect to Rampage, Keith Jardine upset with loss at UFC 96
- MMA Analyst (Leland Roling): Referees under fire once again in the aftermath of UFC 96
- MMA HQ: UFC 96 fighter payouts
- Total MMA: UFC 96 and ‘weak cards’ in MMA
- Fightlinker: Should Rampage fight at UFC 98 on May 23rd?
Coverage of the next season of The Ultimate Fighter, starting April 1st
- Spike TV PR: Michael Bisping and Dan Henderson ready to launch US vs. UK battle
- MMA Junkie: TUF 9 full case revealed – meet the season’s 32 fighters
- The Salt Lake Tribune: Meet DaMarques Johnson
- The London Telegraph: Meet Bisping’s Brit boys for TUF 9
- Kevin Iole: TUF 9 casts pit U.S. vs. U.K. fighters
Topics: Media, MMA, UFC, UK, Zach Arnold | 24 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
The “bad boxing” tag will never go away. Some will see only the ugly boxing and never understand it and others will pull their hair out trying to explain why it looks so ugly. Then you have others, who don’t care either way.
That’s my take. I’m loaded on caffeine and writing crap and realizing it as I write it.
“Head kicking” is martial arts. Americans (and Canadians) will NEVER be 100% comfortable with martial arts because it’s inherently Asian, which is foreign, which is by definition not as good as something that’s inherently domestic (ie. boxing).
As a nation we’re xenophobic, closed-minded, and not willing to look outside our borders for new ideas and concepts.
Simply the statement that “I’m not sure we want head kicks in the mainstream. It moves us that much closer to Rollerball.” tells me the writer has never traveled to anywhere in Asia or Europe, where combat sports and the dreaded ‘head kick’ are not part of an underground bloodsport – it’s part of a SPORT, which is generally accepted by pretty much everyone.
There’s plenty of European (traditional and otherwise) martial arts that feature kicking, so I hardly see it as being some sort of ethnocentric issue. I think there’s a substantial number of people who don’t like others being knocked unconscious.
To be honest, as an combat sport fan who’s travelled to Europe a few times, I think you’d have to go out in search of MMA or kickboxing (whether savate, muay thai, or other wise) to find it, even in the Netherlands. Its hardly as omnipresent as soccer/football or F1. Heck, the NBA is well ahead of all of MMA or kick boxing in most countries.
I actually think Ultimo has a point. I think this is a big part of the reason why there are so many MMA fans who are UFC fans only. The thinking being…if there is a big league in the US, it must be the best there is, and if you are not in it, you must not be talented enough. I think a couple articles in the MMA blagosphere last week showed this. There was an article about the MMAweekly.com lighweight rankings, and how its basically inconceivable that more UFC fighters were not on it. Rankings are always debateable, and I am personally surprised there are not more UFC fighters on the MMAweekly LW rankings, but the idea that Hanson, Kawajiri, and Aoki are vastly overrated shows a real ignorance towards fighters that fight outside the US. Hopefully, this thinking dies out and fighters get recognized for their talent, regardless of where they fight.
Ultimo Santo is being very narrow minded-and perhaps nursing sa grudge- in accusing the people of the US of being xenophobic, close minded, etc. At least, no more thna most other nations. If a few people might not accept head kicks, you still have to consider all the people who do. A neccesary condition of the UFC’s popularity is that enough people accept the whole range of techniques.
Alan got it right about kickboxing in Europe. It is hardly even a top ten sport there. If head kicks are accepted as part of sport in europe it is from the occasional hooligan battle or fight on the pitch during a soccer game.
I find myself not caring who Evans faces. Both are deserving.
Marcus Davis had a great interview on a boxing website about a month ago. Talked about the differences in using boxing techniques in a pure boxing match vs. MMA. I do think MMA striking will never look as clean as boxing. Too many different strikes to throw, and the grappling makes many techniques not work.
I echo the quote of the Columbus Dispatch reporter, but only in this sense … I don’t mind the ‘ugly’ boxing as it has its own logic and skill/attribute set. What I don’t like is when fight after fight on a card has nothing but this, and an absence of grappling or other styles. Not a ton the promoters can do about this, however some nights it seems evident grapplers were not booked. Also a lot of my friends complained on Saturday night about how too many fighters now seem like copies of each other, with slight differences based on their attributes.
In 2005 I was in Paris, and there were posters and newspaper articles everywhere promoting Jerome LeBanner vs. Cyril Abidi in their upcoming K-1 fight.
In one of their daily papers it was front page news, and the interview with LeBanner was purely about his love of the sport. There was no “OMG people are being kicked!!” context to the article.
Europeans ARE more open-minded about basically everything compared to US/Canada. You can disagree with that POV but it’s my opinion.
I’m not saying that MMA and combat sports are as *widely accepted* as something like soccer around the world (of course not, and that was never my point) – I’m saying that in several nations, it’s simply *accepted* a sport, whether it’s popular or not.
Here, the mainstream media can’t bring themselves to simply accept martial arts as a sport. Article after article has to tie it to cockfighting, bar brawling, a bloodsport, or some kind of ridiculous form of entertainment that should be looked down on, or worse, banned.
Except for the fact that Lyoto can probably beat evens and jackson, and will ruin the attraction of a evens/jackson grudge match for the belt if he wins.
Disagreed.
I’m really surprised that they’re finally giving Lyoto a title shot. There’s a good chance hes going to hang onto it for a long time, and revert back to his counter point fighting style while defending it. Why wouldn’t he?
But it will definitely be interesting if he puts on two 25 minute fights in a row with limited action. Personally, I think he’s fascinating to watch, but many people don’t share that sentiment.
Evans has shown a lot of goodfoot work speed, and movement in his last two fights. If he can keep that up he probably stands a better chance than Jackson.
Machida is exciting when his opponents attack him. When they don’t, Machida doesn’t do much.
Machida/Evans has the potential to be one of the most boring 25 Minute fights in UFC history. I like both fighters, and enjoy watching each of them fight. But this has boring decision written all over it.
“Personally, I think he’s fascinating to watch, but many people don’t share that sentiment.”
I do.
In fact “fascinating” is the perfect word!
I just think we should do the evans/jackson thing first before we get settled in for Lyotos long boring/fascinating reign.
People are always flip-flopping on whether or not they want MMA (UFC) to be pure sport or pure entertainment.
Of course we know its a combination of both…but I find people usually arguing for one or the other. Like people say, “UFC should treat it like a sport”…or they say “This fight is boring…it shouldnt happen.”
If this MMA thing is going to be even remotely considered a sport, guys who have earned it need to get title shots. If guys like Machida and Okami, often considered boring, earn their title shots, they deserve them regardless.
but really it isnt about sport or entertainment, it is about MONEY.
I know there isn’t a ton of evidence for this yet, but I believe Lyoto has changed his style and will finish his fights from now on. That was an impressive finish in the Thiago fight and I think Machida is motivated to keep it up.
I have been a bit disturbed at all the Ultimate Kickboxing we have been seeing lately. My theory is that it has to do with fighters moving away from Muay Thai and taking up boxing training. Traditional Muay Thai is stand in front of the opponent and slug it out. Boxers use more footwork, and in the case of recent MMA, have introduced more backpedalling.
Add to that the fact that the level of wrestling is getting better ( this means takedown defence), no gis or rashguards for friction, baby oil/vaseline/penzoil/etc, and you have more fights staying standing.
I do think this is largely just a phase and within a few months, grappling will be a bigger part of the fights again.
The sport always goes through phases. But I think the days of lots of submissions are over.
DREAM 7 had lots of submission guys, and only two submissions… Both of them were designed to be squash matches anyways. Not one submission in the entire Tournament so far. Fighters are too good now to get caught that often.
Plus, we are seeing more striking on the feet because wrestlers are doing more things (on average) to improve their game compared to the submission guys. A few years ago, it was the submission guys who were striking better, forcing the wrestlers to take the fight to the ground and take a chance.
Now we have guys like Gray Maynard who has developed into a very competant striker, and he doesn’t have to force the fight to the ground with a submission guy like Jim Miller.
Fighters need to be more creative. Too many fighters are being way too conventional. Take for example Maynard vs. Miller. Maynard had no reason to take chances. But Miller should have. No spinning kicks. No front kicks. No unique ways of trying to pull guard.
Sherk did the same thing against Penn. He just stood up and boxed for 3 rounds, despite losing the entire time. It is stupid fighting. The sport can be so FREE FLOWING, yet too many fighters treat it like it’s 2 Dimensional Game. Fighters, especially at the highest level, need to find ways to be innovative. Really good fighters can stop everything they expect. Most can’t stop things they don’t expect.
This is what submission guys need to do in order to be more successful. Shinya Aoki is a great example of this. His style is so unique that he catches great fighters off guard with his unique fighting style. Is he the best pure grappler? No!! But he mixes it up.
Oh, and Jon Jones does the same thing. So does Anderson Silva.
Another thing…
Takedowns in wrestling have a lot to do with “Setting up the shot”. It’s a combination of hand movements, level changes, and footwork. A lot of those techniques can’t be used in MMA because of the punches being thrown.
This makes it much tougher to take an opponent down. Look at Munoz, who is a really good wrestler. Without the ability to set-up a shot, he was diving in from too far away, and no wrestler can secure a takedown from that distance.
Plus it is tiring to continue to take shots… And fighters are quick to get back to their feet…
Example: Sean Sherk vs. Tyson Griffin
Sean Sherk could have went for takedowns the entire fight. But he would have been exhausted and could have tired himself out by the 3rd round and been vulnerable.
This is attributed to two things:
1. Griffin was hard to take down.
2. Once Griffin was taken down, he was impossible to keep down.
Most fighters are good enough at getting to their feet so quickly now (Carwin/Gonzaga), that shooting for a takedown is pointless in certain fights. This creates the stand-up fights.
As this sport progresses, even the best wrestlers are having a hard time being wet blankets for 15 minutes.
Machida has a long history of finishing fights. Why he hasn’t finished as often in UFC is up for debate, but my personal opinion is that his own style has been maturing and he’s been feeling it out as much as his opponents have been. He now knows his own strengths and weaknesses better and he’s therefore able to take “risks” that aren’t risky that will allow him to finish his opponent.
Hansen and Kawajiri are overrated? Are there actually people saying that? I haven’t heard it. I don’t know if they’re top 10 but they’re top 20 and inside that range you can pick and choose without much in the way of repercussions from me.
Lyotos style is a creeping accumulative style.
Almost fighting not to lose, but not as bad as that sounds. He just keeps the pressure on and takes what becomes available to him.
The reason he knocked out thiago out was because thiago plods forward and overpowered his previous opponents.
But if Lyoto fights somebody smarter than that it can go to a decision because he is perfectly capable of KOing someone if they give him an opening, but he’s not as good at creating that opening.
Lytoto’s strategic technique seems anchored in his defense, like playing chess.
I’ve played chess in the park with guys who are good, and as long as I watch my back and they watch theirs, we’ll go around in circles for hours.
This usually instigates me to try something rash just to get something done which usually results in me paying for my impatience if my opponent is worth a damn.
Thats Lyoto.
Although I have to add that lyoto’s guerrilla hit and run attack is good enough that he’s taken the decision every time also so far.
The person to beat lyoto is gonna have to bring a thinking mans game.
Randy Couture could be that man IMO.
Now this thread has been a rather interesting one in that we have a segment of those posting that are lamenting the fact that there’s a certain “sameness” to many of today’s top level MMA fighters ( which is correct to a degree ), while on the other hand there are those who are still complaining about how “dull” Machida’s matches are because he fights so differently ( something that I totally disagree with ).
So, which is it?
What do MMA fans want?
For every fighter to aspire to be that so called “perfect” blend of skills like a GSP or for there to be many varied athletes with unique styles like a Machida?
Personally, you can mark me down as being in the latter camp.
I have an eclectic appreciation for all different styles of fighting, especially for an individual like Machida who looks nothing at all like any other combatant in the ring or the cage.
Sure, not every one of his contests are of the variety that have you on the edge of your seat screaming at the TV screen like last year’s Liddell-Silva fight did. But, IMO, even the least action packed of Machida’s performances has been nothing less than very interesting to behold.
I look forward to all of Machida’s fights. My only requirement for a fighter is for him to be great at what he does. Outside of that, I don’t really care about the style, I love them all. I love submission artists like Hazelett and Maia, I love devastating strikers like A. Silva and Alves, and I love fighters with the total package like GSP and Penn.
Machida is incredible.
I’d take Machida any day over another guy with a C-level college wrestling ‘pedigree’ and sloppy kickboxing. Plus I like that he sticks to his guns. A guy like Koscheck adjusted his style to be ‘exciting’ and he just had an incredibly embarrassing loss.