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Mediation fails in setting up Pacquiao/Mayweather fight
By Zach Arnold | January 6, 2010
Chris Mannix of Sports Illustrated reports that it is likely we will see Manny Pacquiao vs. Yuri Foreman on March 20th in Las Vegas.
Mayweather will fight the week before (on 3/13) in Las Vegas against an opponent to be determined.
The Sporting News has more details on the failed negotiations. The LA Times reports that blood testing was a sticking point.
Topics: Boxing, Media, Zach Arnold | 37 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
I think it’s a funny coincidence that the anti-spam word here is “juiced”
In my opinion, Mayweather’s camp never wanted the fight. The quote from Koncz:
“This is no surprise,” Koncz said. “I talk to a lot of people and it’s been my belief all along that the drug testing issue is a façade and a way for Mayweather to get out of the fight.
“After Manny fought [Erik] Morales [in 2005], he attributed the loss to the late blood test he took and I think they came across that. They initially wanted to use this as a way to get under Manny’s skin … but it was also a way he could bow out of the fight.”
Floyd’s too busy feuding with rapper Rick Ross to fight a real boxer like Manny.
Pretty clear Floyd backed out. Too bad. I thought he didn’t have the balls to fight Manny but I still wanted to see them scrap. I hope nobody buys whatever BS fight Floyd takes.
“Pacquiao refused to submit to blood testing within 24 days of the event…”
None of us know the truth. It seems that some of us might be mixing our disdain for Mayweather with the fact that this fight has apparently fallen through in order to conclude that Mayweather is the one most at fault. We’re all speculating.
Until I see a poster and tickets being sold for another fight, I still find it hard to believe that they would be running Pacquiao against anyone else, particularly an unpopular no-name like Foreman who has a terrible style for him (rangy counter puncher who is willing to run).
How can people say Mayweather is the coward when Pacquiao is talking about fighting Yuri Foreman for a paper title at 154lbs??? At least wait and see what level of competition Mayweather lines up…
Malignaggi seems like the next person for Mayweather
That’s unbelievable what they’ve done to the sport of boxing and leaving that much money on the table
It’s Floyd’s fault that Manny doesn’t want to contest the bout drug free? Floyd is right to demand testing and Manny’s desire to avoid it speaks volumes about his character.
It’s none of the fighter’s business how the testing goes. That is for the athletic commissions to decide… Man, I just sounded like Dana White there. Yikes!! hahaha
I think people are looking at this drug testing thing from a high level and saying Manny is to blame. The devil is ALWAYS in the details.
There were reports that Floyd wanted random drug testing on any day, any time, and as often as possible. Well, if even part of that is true, that goes beyond drug testing, and filters into messing with a fighters sleep and workout schedule.
FMJ used this as a way to avoid the fight. He made the demands so rigid that no sane fighter would agree to them. And then Manny didn’t agree to these absolutely outrageous demands, and somehow he get the blame for it?
Not to mention… FMJ wasn’t just asking for drug testing… His camp ACCUSED FIRST.
I actually do believe Manny is on something. I believe most fighters are. I have no proof of Manny specifically, but that is my gut feeling. With that said, Floyd used this as a way to avoid the fight. His body can’t back up his mouth.
And I will leave you with this…. BJ Penn is most likely a clean fighter. He fights against a lot of guys who do use steroids. He still fights them. Heck, he still wants to fight GSP a 3rd time despite getting wrecked during the second fight. That is what a true competitor does. They want the big fights and just want them to happen. If somebody wants something to happen, they will find a way. FMJ didn’t want to fight Manny, and found a way not to. If he wanted to prove himself so badly, he wouldn’t have made such stringent requests that he has never required a previous opponent to make before.
“It’s none of the fighter’s business how the testing goes”
Stop right there. Your initial sentence is wrong, imo. NONE of his business? Do you really believe that?
I remember when Jeremy Horn wasn’t allowed to watch his opponent weigh in and he pulled out of the fight. I don’t blame him. Do you?
What about if a fighter’s camp wasn’t allowed to watch the opponent get gloved?
“I actually do believe Manny is on something.”
That being the case, if you represented Mayweather, you’d certainly have an interest in playing on a level field.
It’s clear to me that Mayweather realized he’d shot his mouth off way too much, and knew he was going to get his ass kicked in a fight with Manny. So he came up with the drug-testing ploy as a smokescreen.
Mayweather talks a good game, but he can no longer back it up; my guess is his next opponent will be another hand-picked jobber than he can play with and keep his record undefeated.
I definitely would like to see this fight, but my guess is it’ll never happen.
Fluyid,
My first paragraph was just making fun of Dana White. I was being sarcastic.
In general….
Ever hear a girl in her mid 20’s babble on about not being sure if a guy likes her or not. She over analyzes it and gets works up over if he is coming over one day over the next. And then if they don’t see each other for a week, she thinks well he had a good reason because he was busy…. yada, yada, yada, BS, BS, BS…. Most normal guys laugh at that type of girl. Because they know if a guy really likes a girl, he will find a way to be with her and make her a priority. That’s how life is. If people want to do something, they will find a way. If somebody wants to lose weight badly enough, they will do it. If somebody wants to get a college degree, they will find the time to take the classes. People who don’t make it a priority just complain about not having enough time. It’s all a bunch of lip service to not really wanting to do it badly enough.
If Floyd really wanted to fight Manny, he would be. He has never asked a previous opponent for more drug testing, so it’s not like this is his Standard Operating Procedure before a fight. It’s as simple as that. Not sure why people want to blame anything else. Some people are easily fooled by these bogus demands made by Floyd.
If Manny really wanted to fight Floyd, he would take a legitimate drug test.
You could turn that logic right back on Manny. If he wanted the fight badly enough, he would have found a way to get it done – take the test within a tighter timeframe and pass with flying colours. It’s not that he won’t take a blood test, it’s that he wants to keep a certain window open as wide as possible – certainly noteworthy. He acts as though he’d be expected to have his blood drawn on his way to the ring.
Funny how you would suspect Manny of using and then dismiss the possibility of more thorough testing which would discover or prohibit such activity. This is an opportunity to ensure that the fight remains unblemished throughout history no matter what trouble either fighter may get into down the road.
I don’t doubt for a second that the former Olympic siver medallist is willing to go through whatever battery of tests is necessary to ensure a clean fight. I’m sure you’d hate there to be any lingering questions about a single “L” when looking back at your life’s work.
But the logic doesn’t work the other way. Manny is saying lets fight the way every single one of our previous big fights has taken place. He is willing to do that. Manny is not the one putting the extra restrictions out there. How hard is that to figure out? He is saying I will fight under reasonable circumstances, including giving blood samples within ~20 days of a fight and post fight. He made concessions and is allowing drug testing to take place. According to some sources, FMJ wants the power to be able to get a blood sample from Manny right before he gets into the ring. What other athletic competition do you give blood right before you go out there?
Those demands are so off the charts that it makes it pretty obvious that FMJ doesn’t want to fight and then hides behind the steroid accusations.
And for people who think Manny should be getting pricked by a needle the day of a fight are insane. I know people who everytime they give blood it is a traumatic experience for them. I’m talking about either passing out or at the very least getting as white as a ghost during the process and feeling horrible for the rest of the day. That is a very real thing. Expecting somebody to go through that process on a weekly basis and within hours of a fight is beyond reasonable. Especially when he is also agreeing to a post fight drug test that goes beyond the norm as well….
“He is saying I will fight under reasonable circumstances, including giving blood samples within ~20 days of a fight and post fight.”
That’s what you say. The Sporting News says the following: “Pacquiao refused to submit to blood testing within 24 days of the event.”
Maybe you’re right, and maybe The Sporting News is right. I’ve seen other sources say different things as well.
“Those demands are so off the charts that it makes it pretty obvious that FMJ doesn’t want to fight and then hides behind the steroid accusations.”
The fact is that none of us know the truth about most of what’s going on. Neither you nor I can really say what is “pretty obvious” and what isn’t.
45 Huddle, your argument falls apart because the current testing system doesn’t work. Why can’t Manny submit to a real drug test? There is one reason that I can think of. Why else wouldn’t he submit to reasonable testing?
My argument doesn’t fall apart.
1) Mayweather has never made this request of another opponent.
2) The current system for combat sports is similar to the system for all the major sports leagues in terms of what they test and how they test it.
So by accepting FMJ’s requests… you are allowing one singular athlete to dictate who can fight him based on his own definition of what is the correct testing standards.
Are you kidding me?
Anyone who goes for Floyd’s drug testing argument is a mark. And that’s being nice.
First off Floyd is asking for something that has never been done before in boxing. He is only asking for it to bother Manny. If you knew anything about. Drug testing there is nothing a fighter can do between 24 days out. An the night of the fight that will enhance performance and then be gone. If Manny were using within. That time period he would need a new designer steroid that hasn’t been detected yet. If that is what he or Floyd are on then the tests don’t. Matter anyway since the drug wouldn’t be picked up. Just lime how the supposedly great WADA and IOC missed half the US track and field team doing steroids in 2000.
Some people on here are being incredibly naive. Floyd is looking for what he feels will be a legitimate excuse in he public’s eyes for ducking Manny. What’s ironic to me is that Floyds muscle mass looks more like the product of steroids than Manny’s.
Well Manny also asked for 10 mln $ penalty for every pound PBF is over and fight day weigh-ins, which has never been done in boxing before.
And let me go off on a small tangent here….
Every major sport in American keeps their athletes behind a line. And those athletes aren’t allowed to cross it. Athletes are fined for talking smack about refs. They have to adhere to certain dress policies sometimes. The leagues really have the power in that relationship, with the stars still being given the stage to shine at what they do (their specific sport).
While there are some negatives about this system, IT WORKS. It has been proven time and time again that having a powerful entity looking over these athletes is a good thing.
Not only does boxing not have this, but boxing is already out of wack. The non-stars have too little power and the major stars have way above and beyond the amount of power they should. It allows situations like Manny/Floyd to happen.
Forget this specific fight for a second. Let’s say Manny accepted Floyd’s drug testing….
What kind of monster does this create? Can other boxers randomly request higher level drug testing for their opponents? And by requesting this, isn’t it really just a sutble way of acusing your opponent of using PED’s?
The athletes should not have this power. They just shouldn’t. I know the AC’s have their own issues (and they definitely do), but having them deal with the drug tests is 10 times better then what just happened with Manny/Floyd.
And the people saying: “Well, the Olympics have higher standards of drug testing….”
They miss the point. Those tests are being dictated by a governing body. You don’t see Michael Phelps forcing his competitors to take drug tests based on his liking before they can get in the pool with him. It sounds silly when it’s put like that. It really does.
Which is why I laugh when people “mark” out for Floyd’s antics….
Can other boxers randomly request higher level drug testing for their opponents?
They should be. Maybe then it would force the often worthless sanctioning bodies and athletic commissions to do something reasonable for the sport other than collecting checks.
“Well Manny also asked for 10 mln $ penalty for every pound PBF is over and fight day weigh-ins, which has never been done in boxing before.”
Good point.
I generally agree with 45 Huddle and Detective Roadblock. That said, I’d likely agree to some pretty unreasonable inconveniences for $40 million plus.
That’s a lotta change.
Good point.
It isn’t, actually. Given that he came over the original agreed catchweight of 144 against Marquez and had it changed to be the WW limit in return for Marquez a side fee, he has shown a tendency to ignore weight limits, just like Jose Luis Castillo did twice against Diego Corrales and Corrales did against Joel Casamayor.
If he had made weight as originally agreed with Marquez and Pacquiao still demanded that clause, you may have had a case. But given that it isn’t the reality, it’s a reasonable clause to prevent coming in as a fatty.
A Pacquiao fight would be at 147, which Mayweather has never had any issue with. Don’t play games with me, Chen, and learn some html!
Given the long history of fighters intentionally coming in heavy to try and get any extra advantage in the ring, it’s not unreasonable to put in clauses penalizing overage. And given that Mayweather has shown a willingness to come in heavier than originally agreed, it makes it an even easier case to make, doesn’t it?
Seriously, there’s no way you can reasonably argue that a guy who (intentionally) missed the weight limit once wouldn’t recidivate if given the chance (see Jose Luis Castillo as a recent clear-cut example of this in action with the two aforementioned Corrales fights). In addition, look at a case like Arturo Gatti-Joey Gamache where Gatti came in huge and ended up causing significant brain damage to Gamache because of his girth.
“Throughout this whole process, I have remained patient, but at this point I am thoroughly disgusted that Pacquiao and his representatives are trying to blame me for the fight not happening when clearly the blame is on them.
“First and foremost, not only do I want to fight Manny Pacquiao. I want to whip his punk [rear]. Before the mediation, my team proposed a 14-day, no-blood-testing window leading up to the fight. But it was rejected. I am still proposing the 14-day window, but he is still unwilling to agree to it, even though this is obviously a fair compromise on my part as I wanted the testing to be up until the fight and he wanted a 30-day cut-off. The truth is he just doesn’t want to take the tests.
‘In my opinion, it is Manny Pacquiao and his team who are denying the people a chance to see the biggest fight ever. I know the people will see through their smoke screens and lies. I am ready to fight and sign the contract. Manny needs to stop making his excuses, step up and fight.”
If true then pacman is a punk. just do the test.
The idea that EPO or other PED’s wouldn’t be helpful in the 24 days prior to an event is a ludicrous idea not supported by science.
I love the red herring of 45 Huddle comparing Floyd to Michael Phelps. Of course Michael Phelps doesn’t have to beg for his opponents to be drug free. There is a real sanctioning body. Fighters are stuck depending on the state of Nevada or other local sanctioning bodies. They don’t cut it, so it is a false analogy.
No comment to the people claiming I am a “mark” for Floyd Mayweather. I went to Vegas and paid for tickets to see Manny fight. Who I am a fan of has nothing to do with the fact that Mayweather (whether his motives are pure or not) is making a strong case for real drug testing in his sport.
Tomer summed it up perfectly in disproving the weight argument.
Snowden you are way out in left field on this one. There is no way Manny is going to beat the drug tests 24 days out and on fight night and have used something conventional/known about. He or Floyd may use a new drug that hasn’t been examined by the testing agency and get away with it. But that would happen no matter what if one or both guys are hooked up with a new lab or chemist. I don’t think you have a very strong knowledge of what steroids, synthetic testosterone and growth hormone do, how they work in an athlete’s training regimine and how they are detected.
Simply put what you want steroids for is to help you get through training and to recouperate faster so you can train more often and harder than if you were not on steroids. Steroids are not what spinach is to Popeye or what getting angry is to the Incredible Hulk. Steroids don’t give you super powers. But they do help you develop super human strength if you have the dedication in the gym to work, work, work.
The last week of training camp is a wind down, keeping the cardio up and letting the body heel. If you test 24 days out that would only leave two weeks to gain the benefits of juicing. Not to mention it is a moot point because what ever is taken at that point would show up on fight night anyway.
This whole thing is much ado about nothing. Why isn’t Ricky Hatton or Oscar two guys Manny humiliate running around saying he is on gas? Floyd knows he is going to get worked over and is making this ridiculous argument about steroids which will now be on the record years later when people look back at this fight. It is sad, cheap and a disservice to a great champion in Manny Pacquiao. A better and classier champion than Floyd.
Also no one in Floyd’s camp has said anything about EPO so don’t bring that up now. That is a side issue. Floyd’s team has specifically said steroids.
Why can’t he take a drug test? Remind me what it is this week? Scared of needles? Feels weakened?
By the way, I have interviewed WADA officials and tons of the athletes that use PED’s. I have a pretty good idea how they work. I don’t think you understand the frequency of certain PEDS or how close to a fight you can cycle off and still pass Nevada’s test.
Nor do I care what some crackhead in a boxer’s camp said about Manny. This is a much bigger issue. Until you explain to me a real reason Manny can’t be tested (besides, you know, fear of detection) than this is worthless back and forth.
It is not for his opponent to decide what type and the frequency of the drug tests. If improvements need to be made on how drugs are tested, then that reform needs to be done at the Athletic Commission level. Athletes can certainly petition those AC’s to try and get reform. But FMJ doesn’t have the authority to make this request.
Not to mention that sports in America have shown a certain standard for drug testing. I know hardcore MMA fans expect above and beyond that, but the vast majority of sports fans are happy with the basic testing that is currently in place. Those are the same people that pay the $55 for the PPV’s as well.
This just in, Manny has just become a Jehovah’s Witness. He’ll be unable to take blood tests within a month of any scheduled bout as it will interfere with his busy schedule of getting doors slammed in his face.
It is not for his opponent to decide what type and the frequency of the drug tests. If improvements need to be made on how drugs are tested, then that reform needs to be done at the Athletic Commission level. Athletes can certainly petition those AC’s to try and get reform. But FMJ doesn’t have the authority to make this request.
Of course he does. The fighters have the authority to include clauses “outside the norms” within contracts all the time. Any catchweight fight falls under that standard too, and god knows we’ve had tons in MMA and boxing alike. Floyd chooses to ask for drug testing; If you think drug testing should be done in a proper, controlled, randomized manner so as to protect both athletes as best they can be, you should be all for it.
Snowden you are way out in left field on this one. There is no way Manny is going to beat the drug tests 24 days out and on fight night and have used something conventional/known about.
A) Is there any credible site that would back up this claim?
B) Citing the performance of drug testing ten years ago to now is a poor example. Why not compare it to the Tour De France of the last two years?
Also no one in Floyd’s camp has said anything about EPO so don’t bring that up now. That is a side issue. Floyd’s team has specifically said steroids.
Link? And given the kind of testing they want, I would say its hardly a “side issue”. Its as much doping as anything.
Roach said a 5 day window was fine. We then heard they wanted 30 days. They then say 24 days. PBF offers a 14 day cut off and Arum claims PBF never offered that on the table. Arum now admits the 14 day was offered.
Arum and Team Pacquiao aint got a straight story. If your gonna do the test then just agree to 14 days. Bob Arum is so damn shady and his done his best to not make the fight happen.
Teddy Atlas said on ESPN2 tonight that his sources have informed him that Manny Pacquiao’s management asked two questions to Floyd’s camp via email: 1) “What are the penalties for a positive test?” 2) “If Manny does test positive, can we not release it to the public in order to protect the fight and boxing?” And with that, I’ve heard enough.