Friend of our site

MMA Headlines


Bleacher Report

MMA Fighting

MMA Torch

MMA Weekly

Sherdog (News)

Sherdog (Articles)

Liver Kick

MMA Junkie

MMA Mania

MMA Ratings

Rating Fights

Yahoo MMA Blog

MMA Betting

Search this site

Latest Articles

News Corner

MMA Rising

Audio Corner


Sherdog Radio

Video Corner

Fight Hub

Special thanks to...

Link Rolodex

Site Index

To access our list of posting topics and archives, click here.

Friend of our site

Buy and sell MMA photos at MMA Prints

Site feedback

Fox Sports: "Zach Arnold's Fight Opinion site is one of the best spots on the Web for thought-provoking MMA pieces."

« | Home | »

UFC 11/14 Manchester, England

By Zach Arnold | November 14, 2009

Print Friendly and PDF

Venue: Manchester Evening News Arena
TV: Spike TV (delayed broadcast)

Dark matches

Main card

Topics: Media, MMA, UFC, Zach Arnold | 95 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |

95 Responses to “UFC 11/14 Manchester, England”

  1. 45 Huddle says:

    What did Couture do? He pushed the pace. He was the aggressor. In a fight where both fighters barely do anything, the guy not pushing the action will almost always lose. It is the same often times in boxing too.

    Pacquiao vs. Cotto was a great fight. Cotto has a lot of heart, but man has he taken some brutal beatings at such a young age.

    The only fight that makes sense right now is Pacquiao vs. Mayweather. They each deserve 50% of the purse because each are equal in terms of fan appeal. Any fighter trying to say they deserve more then 50% is just trying to get out of the fight.

    And both are technically small for Welterweight, so there is no size issue. Personally, I would be shocked if FMJ actually signed on to fight Manny….

  2. liger05 says:

    What a performance from Pacquiao. The guy continues to get better and better. I thought Cotto could win but from round 4 onwards it was just a beating. The speed and angles Manny throws punches from is something else. I really hope the fight v PBF happens. Its such an interesting fight as Manny can be countered and PBF is the only guy who can match him with speed and he also has the defensive skills to not get nailed so much like others do v Manny. Cotto just didnt have the head movement to fight like that. Was getting nailed with the straight left all the time.

    Not sure where Manny ranks as an ATG but his up there. His CV is just amazing.

  3. liger05 says:

    Also where is the usual rant from Dana White about Pacman not facing Mayweather? If all things work out then PBF facing JMM and Manny facing Cotto has been perfect in then building for the mega fight between the two. PBF has to take this fight if its on the table. No BS now. This is the fight the world wants. It would be so bad for the sport if it doesnt happen. Arum and PBF hate each other though…

  4. 45 Huddle says:

    I think Dana is having mini heart attacks right now while he watches his entire roster get sick or hurt. Hardly leaves time for bashing the other combat sport out there. In the long run, if everybody gets healthy, this 5 month time frame for the UFC will actually just help give the spotlight for some of it’s up & coming fighters like Velasquez. It will make those title fights mean even more. But man, it almost feels like they should just cancel one of their PPV’s (like the Jan 2nd show), and use that as a way to regroup….

  5. Mark says:

    The key word is “begin”. This is going to be an epic negotiation on the level of attempts at middle east peace treaties. And maybe those are more realistic. 2011 at the earliest. If ever. And I really hope I’m wrong, but after that performance there is no doubt Manny runs through Floyd, so Floyd is going to want top dollar and then some.

  6. robthom says:

    Its all part of gods wrath for resigning and re enabling tito ortiz IMO.

  7. Ultimo Santa says:

    They did it again.

    The UFC’s second consecutive main event is ruined by an insane decision, and we’re starting to see the pervasive corruption in MMA that we’ve all seen in boxing over the years.

    Vera won rounds 2 and 3 hands down. No question, end of story.

    R1 was a draw so by the stupid 10-point-must judging criteria you could theoretically give it to Couture.

    Either the UFC is somehow manipulating the outcomes of ‘close’ decisions, or every judge is mentally handicapped.

    PS: During his mystery injury, get ready to hear reports of Brock Lesnar out fishing, hunting, and generally acting like a normal healthy person.

    ie. he’s quitting MMA because he has enough cash and is in the mood to do something else.

    I’d be surprised if we see him in an Octagon again, and if we do it’ll be 1-3 fights MAX. Probably closer to 1.

  8. Mark says:

    My comment on the show is still held up in moderation, but as far as Couture-Vera goes, this isn’t the first time Couture has held someone up against the fence. In fact, quite a few of the Team Quest fighters have lean n prayed.

    I gave Randy rounds 1 and 3. Vera is completely worthless. If all they’re keeping him around is that “INTERNATIONAL EXPANSION~!” myth they sell people when fighters start wanting raises, not being able to knock a 47 year olds block off with his slowed reflexes is a cost far too expensive for a Philippines fight. I’m sure those people would much rather see a star have a good fight than see a guy whose dad is from there get put against a can so he can actually win a fight (maybe.)

  9. liger05 says:

    Does Pacman run through PBF? I dont see it like that.

    Rememeber JMM has done the best v Manny and he was also a very good counter puncher. Mayweather can punch with both hands, has the best defense in the sport, a damn good chin, he’s a great counterpuncher he can fight going fowards, backwards, sideways; as he’s comfortable everywhere in the ring. Unlike last night Manny wont be able to continue to land straight lefts at will.

    My main concern with Floyd is whether he has the power to hurt Pacman but his power is underrated and its the speed of his punches which do the damage.

    Cotto did land jabs and if Mayweather gets his jab working he can keep Manny off balance and use that great anticipation skills he has of knowing where the punch is coming from.

  10. Eduardo Alonso says:


    I was wrong. sorry, all judges scored the same. I got confused, maybe the other option happened in Swick’s fight or something like that. sorry.

  11. Mark says:

    I see it as a combination of speed kills (and there’s no way Floyd is faster than Manny) and Manny being hungrier for it. If he beats Floyd there’s no doubt he’s the best fighter of his generation in any weight class period. I’m not saying Floyd has no heart, but he’d clearly only take this fight because he wants the giant payday and doesn’t really care if he ever fights Manny or not, where as Manny is chomping at the bit for this fight.

    You’re definitely right that Floyd would work all kinds of angles, but I think Manny would be ready for it and adapt.

  12. IceMuncher says:

    If I hear accusations of corruption or robbery I’m going to go out of my mind. Just because it’s a really close fight that didn’t go the way you wanted it to doesn’t mean there’s a big UFC judging conspiracy.

    Look at the fightmetric report:

    This fight was as close as it comes. If you look at total striking, Randy hit Vera over twice as often in the 3rd round. 12 power head to 5, 10 head jabs to 2. The first is basically even, and the 2nd was all Vera.

    It’s not a robbery, just a decision you may disagree with depending on what you value in a fight.

  13. liger05 says:

    Surely PBF came back for this fight. I cant imagine he came back to fight JMM. Your right he wants the huge payday but I do think he does want to fight Pacman. Cant HBO just say ‘listen were giving you both $20 mil, now fight’

  14. Mark says:

    I think he’s going to demand Tyson’s old 30 mil a fight up front paydays from 1996 to take it. It’s definitely the fight he has the least chance of winning in all of his career, he’s looking for huge pay days to actually retire on, a loss to Manny hurts his drawing power for the future, so it’s a no brainer he’s going to want a historical sum of money. I’m sure the fight would at least get what the Oscar fight did (if not more) but they’re not going to cave in at first. They’ll play a game of chicken for a year or so.

  15. Alan Conceicao says:

    People who think that Floyd didn’t come back with the distinct thought of fighting Manny Pacquiao are crazy. Marquez was the warmup. That’s been the plan all along. He can’t make half of what he would fighting Pacman anywhere else.

  16. Mark says:

    He should have taken the fight before he retired then. It’s not like the money wasn’t there after Hatton. Maybe all the naysayers are reading too much into it, but it has looked like he’s been ducking him. I agree Marquez was nothing but a warm up, but it also could have been a warm up for several other big match ups.

  17. archerD says:

    Ultimo Santa Says:
    They did it again.
    The UFC’s second consecutive main event is ruined by an insane decision, and we’re starting to see the pervasive corruption in MMA that we’ve all seen in boxing over the years.

    Oh brother!!! 3 random judges didnt agree with your viewpoint so MMA is corrupt.

    The only corruption is Vera’s committment.

    Vera fought his usual half-assed, underwhelming way, couldnt finish a guy that definitely could have been finished and he let a SLOW 46 yr old control the fight. Vera lost and he deserved to lose.

    BTW Shogun lost, too

  18. 45 Huddle says:

    IceMuncher brings the facts to the discussion and it seems like nobody cares to comment on it.

    Ultimo Santa’s post is far reaching.

    Corruption? Lesnar retiring? This is the Fox News of posts right here… So far out there that it is bound to make some of the loonies agree….

  19. 45 Huddle says:

    According to Tatame, which actually is a pretty accurate source when they break news like 6 times a year… Is saying that the WEC talent is coming over to the UFC in early 2010, including the Featherweight & Bantamweights.

    If this holds true, it should be really interesting to see the shift of Lightweight Talent that now moves down because they have a viable, higher paying option at 145 pounds. That will have a ripple effect on the smaller 145 pounders as well, which will move down to Bantamweight.

  20. Ivan Trembow says:

    lol at this quote from Dana White, courtesy of MMA Junkie: “Mike Swick is a very good fighter. He’s only lost to Okami since he’s been in the UFC, at 185 (pounds), and Okami is one of the most underrated fighters in the UFC – and it went to a decision.”

    I wonder if Okami being “underrated” would have anything to do with 6 out of his 9 UFC fights being booked as prelims, even though Okami’s record in those fights is 7-2.

  21. liger05 says:

    Schaeffer: “Bob and me — how often have we failed to make a big fight? How did Pacquiao-Marquez do versus Mayweather-Marquez? How did Pacquiao-Oscar do versus Floyd-Oscar?…Getting them together is a mega-fight that has to be made. We’d all have to be morons to not let this happen.”

    Here’s what HBO exect Ross Greenberg had to say;

    “It’s a simple negotiation…There’s so much money to be made. If it doesn’t happen, there’ll be a revolt. Nothing else is acceptable, and I’m speaking on behalf of the American public and the sport itself. All we can do is try to encourage both sides to sit at a table and hammer out a deal.”

  22. Alan Conceicao says:

    He should have taken the fight before he retired then.

    The money was nowhere near what it is now. You’d be lying to yourself to say otherwise.

  23. David M says:

    Dana is going to look even stupider when Pac and PBF fight. After all his rants about how he always makes the big fights, and though he didn’t bring over Fedor, he tried, and Pac-PBF will never happen, etc. are going to look ridiculous, like most other things he says. Dana is a joke. Further, I heard him say he thought Couture Vera could have gone either way, whereas after Shogun Machida, he thought the wrong guy one. There is a subtle but important difference in that. Dana won’t say Randy lost because he is “Captain America” whereas Machida is not. Machida-Shogun was much closer than this fight, because nobody in that fight was ever in danger of getting stopped, nobody got taken down and mounted, and both men had their moments of offense. In this fight, Couture had no offense the entire fight, got dropped, and got mounted. Embarrassing double standard yet again by Dana.

  24. Anders L. says:

    “…Machida-Shogun was much closer than this fight”

    Is that you Steve Cofield?

  25. 45 Huddle says:

    David M,

    I’m going to call you on your trolling here…. You said: “In this fight, Couture had no offense the entire fight, got dropped, and got mounted. Embarrassing double standard yet again by Dana.”

    If this is true… Then how did Randy Couture land 59 strikes compared to Brandon Vera’s 46 over the entire fight?

  26. Mark says:

    Of course now, several fights removed from Manny-Oscar, it’s even more anticipated than it was in 2008. But it was not a masterplan by FMJ to retire for nearly 2 years while Manny established himself as a strong WW and then come back, assuming he would win all of his fights.

    As for the Vera-Couture debate: not only does Randy win by landing more statistically; but the fact that 45Huddle and I actually agree on something automatically makes it true.

  27. David M says:

    45 Huddle,

    Most of Couture’s strikes did no damage at all. Did you see Vera hurt at any point in the fight? Did he get dropped like Couture did? Did he avoid striking at any cost? The fact that he may have landed some rabbit punches and knees against the fence that did nothing to Vera doesn’t mean he did anything to win the fight. And don’t get it twisted, I’m not a fan of Vera at all. I often refer to him as The Lie, but seriously he did all the damage in that fight, and got a takedown and mounted Couture. Randy did nothing of consequence for 15 minutes, got dropped, outwrestled, and yet he won a decision? Please be serious.

  28. 45 Huddle says:

    Vera was outworked, it was as simple as that.

    He didn’t even land 50 strikes the entire fight. Only went for 2 takedowns. It was a pitiful performance. This is FIGHTING. Vera did not come to fight. He had moments of inactivity that at one point lasted 3 minutes.

    Couture didn’t do much, but he was working the entire time, looking for the takedowns, etc…..

    When Vera did fight, he was winning. When he did fight, he was the more effective athlete. He just barely did any of it during the entire 15 minutes.

    Also, Couture did have a solid flurry at the beginning of round 3. I think you need to watch the fight again. Just watch Vera, especially in the 3rd round. See how little he does for long periods of time….

  29. 45 Huddle says:

    And just because I doubt you will connect the dots….

    What Couture did in this fight would have lost him the vast majority of fights. It’s as simple as that. The only way a guy like Couture wins that fight is if his opponent barely does anything, which gives more merit to the aggression. And guess what Vera did? Basically nothing…

    That is why Couture won.

  30. David M says:

    Are you on crack? Since when did hugging a man and failing miserably to take him down constitute some kind of victory in a fight?? You say this is a “FIGHT,” well guess what fights are evaluated on? How successful you are at FIGHTing. Couture had no success at all. He got dropped, he couldn’t take Vera down at all, and he got taken down and mounted. You say Vera was inactive, but so was Couture. The difference is that Vera damaged Couture badly, and Randy did nothing of consequence the entire fight. In the “Couture-hug” position. I fail to see how one man’s hugging can be deemed more effective than another man’s hugging. Whereas at distance, Vera almost broke Couture’s ribs and dropped him, while Randy landed occasional, harmless blows before running in to hug Vera some more.

    Vera did more damage on the feet, hurting Randy badly and dropping him, and outwrestled him too, taking him down and mounting him. In a fight where your best argument for Couture is that he initiated the hugs with Vera, I have no idea how you can so easily discount Vera’s ability to damage his opponent much more than his opponent damaged him, and his ability to outwrestle Couture. Maybe you’re just a moron.

    Re: going back and watching the fight again to see a flurry by Couture in the 3rd round, you couldn’t pay me enough to watch that shit again. Vera showed that nobody can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory like he can (even though he deserved to win, I agree that he should have done more), and Randy showed that he has no business ever main eventing a fight. At this point in his career, the only way he can beat a man with any semblance of reflexes is to hold against the fence and pray for a Captain America decision..

  31. Robert Poole says:

    I agree with 45 that Couture was working the whole time. Personally I thought Couture won 2 rounds to 1 just like the judges. This decision was nowhere near as bad as the Rua-Machida one. What needs to be said is Vera has ZERO cage defense. This fight seemed very reminiscent of the snoozefest he had with Tim Sylvia. Lay on the guy on the cage and he’s useless.

    Pacquaio’s ownage of Cotto is noteworthy because I think Cotto was a way, way stronger puncher than Mayweather and frankly if Pacman can walk through his power, Mayweather won’t be able to hurt him. Also PBF may move a lot but he’s never had anyone attack him at the angles Manny hits from. I seriously think all the running and dodging he does will not help PBF from getting hit.

    What I think is amazing is coming into the fights with Pacquaio all of his opponents were legitimately considered threats. After he’s done with the destruction he does to them in the ring he’s made them seem washed up to the point of retirement. I don’t see this as Manny picking on weakened fighters. PBF beat DLH and Hatton but neither looked washed up after those fights. Manny is SO good he made them appear completely finished. In fact there’s a long line of guys he beat so badly there didn’t seem to be a reason for them to continue. Only JMM seemed to survive enough to have a reason to continue after these recent fights.

    Morales, Barrera, David Diaz, DLH, Hatton and now Cotto. All came into their fights with Manny and were given good shots to win. When Manny was done with them they were pretty much told they were done as fighters.

    That to me speaks volumes to Manny’s incredible ability. More devastating than Tyson when you think about it. He might have had highlight reel KOs against mostly bums but he never ended careers of top level fighters in the manner that Manny has. (Michael Spinks may be the exception)


  32. 45 Huddle says:

    Vera damaged Couture in the 2nd, and he won the 2nd. That was when he landed 25 of his 46 strikes. He only landed 21 strikes in the two rounds he lost. That is about one strike landed every 30 seconds. And with only 1 takedown during those 2 rounds…. That isn’t enough to win. You can easily lose a fight with your opponent just being more aggressive at that point. And if you do recall, aggression is one of the criteria for judging. And it definitely has more weight as a category when there is basically not grappling or striking going on.

    Lastly, I do not smoke crack. Thanks for asking.

  33. Mr.Roadblock says:

    45, if the Couture/Vera fight was Fedor/Rogers and Fedor did what Randy did, you’d have had an aneurysm and died already.

    I can’t stand Vera. I too think he is a myth/lie. But Randy did nothing. Any metric that counts his half punches on the cage the same way it does the full strikes Vera threw in the standup (non-clinch) game should not ever be trusted or referred to again.

    The only thing that really bothers me, since I didn’t bet on Vera and don’t care for him, is that now we have to listen to all the Randy nerds gloat about this meaningless victory. Hopefully he gets in there with Rashad and KTFO’ed sooner rather than later.

  34. Zack says:

    45 Huddle:

    “According to Tatame, which actually is a pretty accurate source when they break news like 6 times a year… Is saying that the WEC talent is coming over to the UFC in early 2010, including the Featherweight & Bantamweights.”

    Thanks for telling us now legitimate the source is smart guy. From Reed Harris (if you know who that is):

    ” I normally don’t even bother commenting on stories like this…but this site has done this before and I cant let it go time after time.

    Whats great about this story…is that this so called MMA website quoted “a source close to the WEC”.

    This is the same web site the said Fabiano was coming to the fighter summit two weeks ago to learn how the merger would work. I spoke to Fabiano at the summit and he had no idea where that came from and was pissed they used him to try to push some agenda.

    I can tell you..this is a lie. No one at WEC would:

    A). Make a comment about any business decision to Tatame…period. In fact, I have never had a conversation with them about anything.

    B). Would make an announcement that we will merge in January when we have a show scheduled in Ohio in March.

    c). Announce or even discuss anything WEC with a shit web site like them 🙂 (wouldn’t there be better places to announce such big news).

    Don’t play their game…what they do is make up stories, feed them to the other sites and try to drive traffic to their web site to sell advertising. Yet time and time again their stories end up being false.

    Dont be a victim.”

    45 Fail

  35. CapnHulk says:

    The show ended up being not-so-bad, but I don’t think I’ve ever been as disappointed in two fighters as I was with Couture and Vera. Who fights Randy Couture without some sort of plan of how to get off the friggin’ cage and get some distance?

    When you can’t take a guy down after working for an entire round why not try some of that famous “dirty” boxing, or some footstomps, or some knees? Anything, really. Randy had no intention of finishing the fight in any decisive way.

    On an unrelated note, it seems Nogueira has a staph infection again. How dirty is that gym? Get some Lysol or something guys.

  36. David M says:

    45–you keep talking about aggression–the key is EFFECTIVE aggression, not just aggression. Randy wasn’t effectively aggressive. He literally accomplished nothing the entire fight. LOL at counting rabbit punches as a measure of him doing something.

    Couture just held Vera on the fence and was thwarted time after time trying to get takedowns. How does failing to take someone down constitute effective aggression and or a win? Thankfully I have blocked the first round out of my memory, but let’s say Couture won. You concede that Vera won the 2nd by dropping The “Natural,” and in the third round, Vera took Couture down and mounted him. Your counter is that Couture landed several weak punches. Whoopty fucking doo. He never came close to hurting Vera in the third round, and yet you think that several weak ass punches and hugging someone on the fence constitute more than taking your opponent down and mounting him? I don’t get it. How was Couture’s cage work good but Vera’s not as good, if Vera was the one who was able to win the clinch and actually secure a takedown? Your logic is subpar on this topic.

  37. Mark says:

    Couture just held Vera on the fence and was thwarted time after time trying to get takedowns. How does failing to take someone down constitute effective aggression and or a win?

    Randy clearly modeled his strategy on the infamous “Cage Humping Fight” between Vera and Sylvia. And Vera lost and complained about losing that one too. And honestly he should have assumed an ex-Team Quest fighter would use that strategy and trained for escaping it.

    Nobody is saying it’s an impressive victory and you can argue Randy hurt himself with the way he won since he’s certainly not fighting Machida now. I shouldn’t even defend it because it was a joke of a fight, but under UFC’s scoring methods he won 2 rounds to 1. But defending Vera for that performance is just as ridiculous. He came in like he didn’t expect freaking RANDY COUTURE was going to clinch him and had never seen the Sylvia fight. He did not use his reach to keep a distance, he had a bad strategy plain and simple. He should have stayed on the outside and used his reach to keep Randy away. Both of them should be ashamed of their performances.

  38. Fluyid says:

    “…I think Cotto was a way, way stronger puncher than Mayweather and frankly if Pacman can walk through his power, Mayweather won’t be able to hurt him.”

    Mayweather has the ability to catch Pacquiao with a punch he doesn’t see coming. I’m not making any predictions, but I could easily see him catching Pacquiao with a rolling, slipping right hand from an unusual angle.

    And remember, it’s the punch you don’t see coming that does the real damage.

  39. Robert Poole says:

    Fluyid- It’s that very reason that Manny is going to beat PBF. He’s much better at the angles and faster than Floyd. He’s much more likely to get caught with some speedy punch coming from a weird angle he can’t defend than vice versa.


  40. Fluyid says:

    Can’t argue with you there, RP.

    If Mayweather can use that shoulder roll/chin tucked defense againt Pacquiao the same way he’s used it against everyone else, then he’s the all-time phenom of phenoms.

    It’s just that, right now, I can’t see him laying back and doing it successfully. Pacquiao is too fast and punches from too many angles.

    I’m really interesting in seeing the fight.

  41. Mark says:

    Wow a picture of a full mount he didn’t finish the fight with and Randy got up from. Yeah that changes everything.

    Yes, it’s going to be the superfight of superfights if it happens. It will probably surpass the Mayweather-DLH numbers.

    Fluyid is right I can’t see Mayweather dealing with his speed. Pacquiao is going to overwhelm him IMO.

  42. liger05 says:

    I think PBF can deal with Manny’s speed. His defence is unreal.

  43. David M says:

    There is no way to know. Who has Pac faced who is as fast as he is? I didn’t see most of his fights before he started fighting Barrera and Morales and JMM and the like, but I would imagine that at least some of those little guys were as quick as he is, but I doubt any of them had his pop. Floyd had some trouble with Zab Judah and Chop Chop Corley, the two fastest guys he ever fought. Neither of them could punch at angles or in combo the way Pac does. Zab I believe was a southpaw like Manny, but he was mentally weak and seemed to break. I don’t think Pac will.

Comments to Ultimo Santa

To prove you're a person (not a spam script), type the security word shown in the picture.
Anti-spam image