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Nick Lembo makes the right call
By Zach Arnold | April 10, 2009
MMA Weekly reports that the Tim Sylvia vs. Ray Mercer boxing fight scheduled in a couple of months has been canceled.
Update (3/29): The fight is now booked for Birmingham, Alabama. Alabama events are supposed to be regulated by the Mississippi state boxing commission.
Update (4/10): This boxing match will take place inside of a cage. I love how the idea that Monte Cox won’t take down and use a ring is being cleverly used as a marketing ploy here. I haven’t been this excited since Roddy Piper and Mr. T boxing at WrestleMania 2 at the Nassau Coliseum in Uniondale.
Topics: Boxing, Media, Zach Arnold | 41 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
No way! I am shocked, SHOCKED I say! Okay, enough with the obvious sarcasm. It’s for the best that this fight got canceled. We all know whatever the outcome of the fight would have been, it wouldn’t have been pretty. If Tim Sylvia won, then it would make Mercer look bad for losing to an MMA guy who is 1-3 in his last four MMA fights and whom never had any pro or amateur boxing experience, and he would take more unneeded shots to the head. If Sylvia lost then he would look bad for losing to a guy who is 47 years old and is significantly shorter than he is. Oh, and he would officially have a win-less boxing record. And whoever the winner would be, well, their stock wouldn’t go up that much at all. Only Mercer would come out looking like any sort of winner.
And in related news, KJ Noons just lost an eight round boxing match to James Countryman (I LOVE than last name), losing a hard fought eight round decision. I heard that Countryman won basically seven out of eight rounds, but every round was really close and Noons fought his balls off. Noons is 8-2 as a pro boxer. There is no shame with this loss of Noons. But it still stands, he is better off in MMA.
I just read the piece, and it looks like the fight (not the card, just this fight) will be rescheduled elsewhere. They could easily get the fight sanctioned in a southern or mid-west state. You can have a twelve year old girl vs. a chimpanzee with an AK-47, those southern and mid-western state athletic commissions will sanction anything.
On the whole “some people will sanction anything” I saw a piece about how some promoter is going to have an amateur wrestler make his debut on an upcoming MMA show. The hook? The guy has legs and arms that didn’t develop properly, meaning he’s basically walking with numbs, nor can he really wear gloves. Amazing.
“You can have a twelve year old girl vs. a chimpanzee with an AK-47, those southern and mid-western state athletic commissions will sanction anything”
That would be more entertaining that Sylvia vs. Mercer.
Tim Sylvia is officially the Chuck Liddell of the heavyweight division. He will never beat anyone in the top 10 (or probably 20) at HW ever again – and he knows it.
His only chance at a significant win (or payday) at this point is to try and beat up an old man under boxing rules.
If this fight never happens, I think it’s all over for big Tim.
Alan,
The dude’s name is Kyle Maynard. I have seen an episode of Oprah Winfrey he was on. He’s training to make his MMA debut? Damn! How could he fight? He was a very good high school wrestler, but how can he deal with punches and kicks? On another note, can his opponents kick him legally? He would technically be a downed opponent, since he always wrestled on all fours.
I’d say he’s more of the josh barnett of the HW division.
Could beat some significant guys but too lazy (or realistic) to challenge the best yet also full of himself, so prefers to fight people that are below his apparent capabilities and just sell himself on his name value.
Although I’d add that sylvia at least did fight the best and took his trouncing like a man, something barnett seems to want to avoid like an athletic commission.
Obviously this move was a politically motivated one on Lembo’s part in order to portray himself in a good light & to get his name in the papers nationwide.
Sure, the bout was/is an oddity of sorts, but IMO neither athlete was in any sort of danger or increased risk by participating in it.
Sylvia is a world class professional & former two time champion in his particular combat sport, while Mercer, though aged & well past his prime displayed in his last contest in Europe that he’s still a competitive, competent boxer by beating the much younger, just once previously beaten Richel Heresia.
So, what’s the problem?
Had it been Mercer making his pro MMA debut vs Sylvia, I believe it’s very likely that it would have been sanctioned. So, why the double standard with a boxing match?
Yeah, I think that Mercer would’ve outclassed “The Maine-iac” once he found his range on the big guy after a couple of rounds & probably stopped him down the stretch or won handily on points depending on how many stanzas the bout was scheduled for. But, both men deserved the right to meet in the ring for the $$$ & the opportunity to see who would come out on top.
The athletic commission is flexing their muscle because they can.
If this fight was being promoted by Zuffa or a big time boxing promoter, this fight would still be on.
I’m glad to see that this thread hasn’t devolved into mindless Tim Sylvia-bashing like most message board threads about this subject… and for once, I’m not being sarcastic. This fight had no business being booked in the first place, but that is not Sylvia’s fault. Likewise, Affliction did overpay for Sylvia, but that is also not Sylvia’s fault. The amount of hatred out there for Sylvia almost rivals the amount of hatred out there for B.J. Penn due to the fact that he dared to protest the fact that his opponent’s back had vaseline on it.
I would think the fact that Mercer has been basically isolated in having to fight in Sweden lately would say everything about his current predicament in boxing at his age.
I actually used to like tim circa the kilt era. I was even disappointed but forgave him the steroid bust.
But it seems like he’s changed since then. Not as down to earth as he seemed at first, more full of himself.
I dont hate him, I’m just starting to dislike him for some of the things he’s been saying and doing.
The latest is trotting around the mercer fight and appearing to expect that we take him seriously for it instead of getting back in the fire against a contender to make amends for what he did against fedor.
It seemed just a little insulting to MMA and to any fans he still has.
But I’m probably taking it to personally though. 🙂
I miss the Tim Sylvia who I used to cheer for. The one who shocked the world dethroning(and stealing the soul of) Ricco Rodriguez. The one that did more with less natural athletic ability than anyone else. The HIGH KICK! The one that used to come to fight. That wasn’t gun-shy. That wasn’t overthinking. That wasn’t scared.
That Tim Sylvia was the most underrated fighter in the world. The most dangerous, least regarded champion.
I don’t know who this current fighter is. The boring, underachieving, brainfarting, misguided warrior clearly on the downside of what was a fantastic career by any measure. But, I still hold out hope for the previous one’s return. Then again, I’m still hoping for Ricco and Rizzo to come back so I am a bit of a fool.
I see absolutely nothing wrong with this boxing matchup from a commission/legal standpoint.
I really think the commission is out of line in cancelling this fight.
I have yet to hear a valid argument as to why these men do not have the right to fight eachother under the Marquess of Queensberry rules.
We have a very experienced MMA fighter who fights 95% of the time on his feet and a wayyy over the hill pro boxer, who hasnt been relevant or ranked in the past 10 years.
Comparing Tim Sylvia to Josh Barnett is so retarded I won’t bother trying to argue it. I feel like it would be similar to trying to convince Sherri Sheppard that the world isn’t flat.
Anyhoo, I, along with big boi, miss the Tim Sylvia of old.
for the last 4 years he’s been losing, or grinding out extremely boring decisions. And in MMA (especially the UFC) a boring decision win is as bad – or worse – than a loss.
Tim has no heart, no fighting spirit, and unless he goes through a massive change, no business fighting in main events.
I’m semi looking forward to a Sylvia/Buentello fight tat is being rumored at Affliction 3. Winner is Top 10, loser is not.
And actually, this might be a loser is barely heard from again. Buentello is 35, and despite being 12-3 since the start of 2003 (had to look that stat up), doesn’t really have a big win on his record.
Sylvia hasn’t looked very good sine his second fight against Arlovski. Since then, he has either lost, or was extremely boring in a win.
The loser of this fight really will have a long way to climb back into even the Top 10.
I believe fighters deserve credit for the quality of competition they face, even more than for having a long win-streak against weaker opponents.
By that measure, as well as by the measure of who he’s beaten in the last few years, Sylvia is a Top 10 HW. No fighter in MMA has faced stiffer competition than Sylvia.
Sylvia’s list reads Fedor (#1), Mir (#2), Nogueira (#3), Couture (#5), Arlovski (#7), Monson (#22) and Vera. (Rankings mine. Insert your own.) To go 4-5 against those opponents is no shame. Those 5 are the only losses in his career. And in the last 3 years, his record is 3-3 against these impressive competitors.
There is an argument out there that the entire top of the HW division is weak right now, in the sense that the top spots are occupied by veteran fighters who are likely on the downside of their careers. That may be true in theory, but we won’t know until the next generation defeats the veterans in battle.
This is a six-rounder, according to that Sherdog article.
Sylvia is going to have a pretty good chance.
klown, no one is arguing that Tim Sylvia has faced high-quality competition.
What people are questioning is the quality of his performance.
zzzzzzzzzzzz
is anybody excited about watching this fight?
Its fight like this give credence to an idea of a federal boxing comission
Commissions can fcuk off.
Preventing two grown men – who are professional athletes – from engaging in a boxing match is absurd.
Unless someone is mentally incompetent, adults over the age of 18 should be allowed to compete against anyone else in any form of combat sport.
Aside from age (and being the same gender), the only criteria should be 1) doctor present in case of emergency, 2) a referee to prevent serious injury and to stop the fight if necessary, and 3) the both fighters understand the rules.
After all, if an 18 year old can go to Iraq and get blown to pieces, is it some American commission’s place to prevent them from strapping on a pair of boxing gloves because *gasp* they might get injured?
So a commission should allow Brock Lesnar vs. Jens Pulver if they both agree to it?
Ultimo,
Your logic is horribly flawed. For one thing not just anybody can join the military. You have to have a certain body fat percentage (a low one), you can’t have horribly flat feet, you can’t be retarded, you can’t be OPENLY GAY, you can’t be an illegal immigrant, you have to pass physical tests (crunches, mile run, etc.), etc. So your logic is flawed there. If the military can have all of these standards in place, then why can’t athletic commissions? I do agree that quite a many commissions do tend to baby fighters and are too full of themselves (like when the NYSAC refused to give Holyfield a license to fight because he SEEMED to have diminished skills, even though they didn’t do any tests on him to prove that) but there has to be standards.
Let’s say a fighter that has prior brain damage decides to fight, he is allowed, then he dies of fight-related injuries, what will happen? All sorts of PR nightmare related issues. The commissions will look bad, the promoter will look bad, the fallen fighter’s corner men will look bad, etc. It’s just not worth it.
But I must say, why the NJSAC decided to shit-can the Mercer/Sylvia fight is pretty iffy. They probably shit-canned it because Mercer has an established pro and amateur career, whereas Tim Sylvia has never fought any pro or amateur boxing matches. If it was an MMA match we might not be talking about this right now.
Then again, Mercer has never had any pro MMA matches (the fight against Kimbo Slice was an exhibition) and Sylvia has an established MMA career, so who knows?
I’d like to see Tim Sylvia lose an uneventful decision, return to MMA, and TKO Josh Barnett.
45, abso-fuc*ing-lutely. Butterbean v. Sudo anyone? The sport has a long history of big v. little men, and no real harm has come of it. Remember, its just a fight.
Well, all right.
Let ’em get it on.
As I said in my previous post, Lembo was just doing this for the positive PR he figured it might bring him. And, while it did bring him some, it also turned what was pretty much seen as a “ho hum” event into something of much more interest to combat sports fans.
Besides, just to illustrate how silly his stance is on this bout, let’s speculate about a sort of mirror image match up & whether Lembo would sanction it on an MMA card.
What if Hasim Rahman were booked to take on Dan Severn in his MMA debut. Would Lembo sanction it?
I’d bet on it.
“I’d like to see Tim Sylvia lose an uneventful decision, return to MMA, and TKO Josh Barnett.”
klown, I’m sure in your imagination Tim Sylvia can TKO Josh Barnett. But here in reality – where fights are won by skill and not wishes – I think you’re in for some serious fcuking disappointment.
And 45, the answer is yes. Jens Pulver is an adult, and he can decide if the risk of fighting Lesnar is worth the reward.
Gilbert Yvel almost knocked out Josh Barnett from underneath Barnett’s mount.
Unlike Barnett, Tim Sylvia is a Top 10 HW. He would block Barnett’s takedowns and batter him with jabs and knees for a unanimous decision.
klown,
Are you saying WAMMA is wrong? And Josh Barnett is the the #1 Contender to the WAMMA Heavyweight Title? lol
I actually think Sylvia would beat Barnett as well.
You think a lot of things.
I do think of a lot of things. Like how there is a reason for weight classes. And a reason for rules. And I think about proper rankings. Yes, this is true.
I’ve yet to hear a reason why Tim Sylvia vs. Ray Mercer is going to advance either man’s career. Is this going to jump-start Sylvia’s boxing career aspirations? Ray Mercer has had trouble getting sanctioned in America to fight — he’s had to fight in Sweden for goodness sakes.
Did I miss the rampaging mainstream market demand for Mercer’s come back to boxing?
For Mercer, this IS his career. There’s no advancement for him. It’s simply a payday, which is the sole factor in taking fights for him these days.
I don’t know what this does for Sylvia, except it could give him some degree of bragging rights, I suppose.
Mercer has been broke for about a decade, and I’m sure as the payoffs get less frequent he only becomes broker and broker. He’ll keep fighting as long as someone keeps licensing him. That’s his purpose here. For Sylvia, its a recognizable name who, in theory, is fairly easy to beat. Sure, its a recognizable nearly 50 year old name, but that doesn’t matter so much. With a win over Mercer, he might be able to convince some promoter out there to give him a higher profile boxing match on a PPV undercard or something similar. Short road to riches via getting your face caved in, if you will. Except that Sylvia is probably convinced he’d win.
Now they’re gonna box inside of a cage?
I never thought that the disrespect towards MMA in this trainwreck could actually increase!
It probably wont be mercer, but I hope somebody kicks the ever loving sh!t out of sylvia for this.
Is boxing in a cage safe? I’m really curious. I’m just havign images of a guy laying against the cage with big boxnig gloves tearing him apart.
It’s probably safe enough, so to speak, but it is definitely way different. The ropes and the area near the ropes have a certain feel to them that is changed in a big way when you move to a cage. I’ve sparred in a cage before, and you might as well be in a room with walls around you.
This is a definite freak show and nothing more.
Mercer is fighting a six-rounder and he’s boxing in a cage. What the hell?
What a surprise, Howard Jacobs loses again! I guess he thought that the 100th time would be the charm for his, “My client ingested that banned substance from a supplement… a SUPPLEMENT!” defense.
LOL. Wow, I actually speculated that this sort of thing was likely to be attempted somewhere down the line back during one of the threads discussing last month’s hybrid RJJ card. But, I obviously had no idea that it would be coming THIS soon!
I can’t quite decide whether this makes the match up that much more interesting in a trainwreck/freakshow sort of way or whether it makes it a complete & total embarassment to both sports.
Probably BOTH actually.
But, like I said in my earlier posts here about this match up, they’re both very experienced, former World Champion professional fighters who have a right to continue to earn a living. Even though both of them have seen much better days.
Chuckle at the odd type of match up if you like, but let ’em fight.
Hey, something else just occurred to me.
Since this is the first one of it’s kind, what’s to stop Cox from hitting this from yet another PR angle with 8 weeks to go by declaring the fight as being for something like, say, The vacant World “Cage Boxing” Heavyweight Championship? LOL
“Since this is the first one of it’s kind, what’s to stop Cox from hitting this from yet another PR angle with 8 weeks to go by declaring the fight as being for something like, say, The vacant World “Cage Boxing” Heavyweight Championship?”
When he does this, we need to make sure you get proper credit.
In a way, he’d be dumb to NOT do it. He could market it to be some sort of big-time deal and then he could have a grand ceremony in the middle of the cage, awarding the belt to the Cage Boxing champ.
The winner….. and NEW CAGE BOXING HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION OF THE WORLD…..