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Open thread
By Zach Arnold | September 14, 2006
Anything and everything MMA-related can be discussed here today in the open thread. Stories, links, commentary, etc. Go for it in the comments section here.
Topics: All Topics, Zach Arnold | 18 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
I’m trying to educate myself here. Does anyone understand the Bodog fight series . I’ve heard that the USA is going to fight against Russia, but all they have on the website is Americans vs Americans fighting in South America. I’ve also heard something involving either Fedor or his team. Any useful info would be appreciated.
Fedor’s team: Red Devil signed a contract with Bodog. So Red Devil fighters will be fighting Team America or whatever. The reality show (according to the video) will be 14 Americans training and fighting in the jungles of Costa Rica. The 7 winners will then fight some Red Devil fighters on ppv in November—I believe.
ad—I agree with you on the elbows. I think winning by cutting someone with your elbow is a cheap victory and it’s alwasys dissapointing when that happens. As far as the knees go, I belive that your logic regarding the critics of MMA complaining about the “barbarism” of the knees is why they’re banned in the states.
Personally, I like the knees as I think they add to the drama and sense of urgency to fights. In some early Pride fights, fighters who were being dominated would sometimes sink into the turtle position and try to wait it out. However, with the advent of knees to a downed opponent—this became a dangerous thing to do, as your opponent could rain knees down on your head and knock you out. It increases the excitement of the fights and requires you to be more skilled, so as to not put yourself in such a position—a position that isn’t exciting.
As far as the Alex Sergei fight goes, I think the ref should have stopped the fight sooner but he complained after the fight was stopped even though he wasn’t defending any of the shots after he hit the canvas, so…
Just a side note, the UFC says that they ban knees and stomps to the head because of the caged fighting area. There is no release or escape point in a cage like there is in a ring while a fighter is being kneed or stomped against the cage. The problem I have with that is that the same principles would apply regarding elbows or even punches to the head from that position.
I would like to see UFC reinstate the knees and kicks to the head of a downed opponent. I have seen a number of instances (most famously Tito v Belfort) where a fighter “hides on his knees”. What I mean is that in UFC fighters will sometimes go to the knees or stay down in a position where they would get brutalized in Pride becuase they know knees are illegal in UFC. Joe Rogan brought that up during the Kongo fight at the last PPV.
I have mixed feelings about the elblows. I tend to agree w/ Pride that they lead to cuts that stop fights but don’t provide a conclusive winner. At the same time I don’t like to take weapons away from the fighters.
Let’s hear some predictions on the Swick/Louisseau fight. Swick has been impressive, but I don’t see him stopping the offense of David. Louisseau by TKO elbow round three.
The only way Louiseau will lose is if he lost all confidance after being totally dominated by Franklin. Fighting is like 60% mental, so he who has the stronger will has the edge.
I would like to see what people think more about the Penn/Hughes fight. I see it being a great fight but going with Penn on this one as he definitly has something to prove after that horrible loss to GSP (he practically fell asleep the last two rounds). I still think Hughes is somewhat scared of BJ as he got owned by him in their first fight and he hasnt forgotten it (neither has Penn). Plus I would rather see Penn vs GSP rather than Hughes/GSP.
Kicks and knees to the head of a downed opponent is an awesome idea. I like the idea of seeing someone’s skull explode like a melon between the mat and a fighter’s knee. But unfortunately the liberal cry-baby media and narrow minded politicians on capitol hill are too ignorant to understand why we should be allowed to kick people’s heads around like a soccer ball. It’s really too bad … it upsets me that MMA would chose legal sanctioning across America rather than allowing Mortal Kombat-like fatalities to be pulled off in the ring. Ah well. At least I can still go to Dubai and see street urchins do it.
Fightlinker, if there’s an award for most ignorant post you should be nominated if not outright win it for that. Fighters in Pride and K-1’s MMA shows having been geting kicked in the head on the ground and stomped without a single fatality.
1) I have a feeling in the future the UFC will prohibit elbows to a grounded opponent, but keep elbows while standing to allow flexibility for the muay thai fighters. A fighter would most likely be cut on the ground where they are more immobile than standing. According to my theory, this will lead to less fights being stopped via cut, which would prolong the fight.
2) In the future, I would like to see the state athletic commissions to allow knees to the head, not kicks though, to a grounded opponent. But here’s the twist, it would have to be a certain amount distance away from the cage so that the defensive fighter has a chance to defend or avoid the strikes. The area in which knees to the grounded opponent are illegal would be referred to as the “red zone” and the ref would indicate when it is in effect. Still, no kicks or stomps to the head of a grounded opponent at anytime.
3) Personally, I think the UFC should institute a penalty card system for fighter inactivity while standing and on the ground. We don’t see many warnings given out as often in the UFC than PRIDE for boring fights I’ve noticed. And make the penalties where it hurts, the fighter’s pockets. Have it be deducted from the winner’s bonuses.
Yellow cards that take away salary is really unnecessary and ineffective. Rarely do fighters pick up the pace after getting yellow cards and I see them given out way too often when two fighters worked their asses off and take a much needed 30 seconds to recuperate. And all too often, it seems like Pride refs are trying to save money. The best solution is to not invite boring fighters back.
I also think the issue with elbows causing cuts and cheesy wins is overstated. Very rarely do you see the highest level fights play out that way because the better fighters know how to defend or get out of that position. Cuts are a part of game (as Yves Edwards eloquently stated after he lost with one) and I think its difficult to determine that elbows cause more cuts than punches or knees.
Let’s not forget that you can kick or knee a downed opponent in the body and legs (just not the head). So just because you can’t punt a guys head in UFC, doesn’t make it watered down.
I too dislike the idea of taking away a fighter’s pay for inactivity. But since Pride doesn’t have a point system, the opponent should be awarded one free kick to the nads.
I think with Pride’s 10 minute first round, the fight will slow the at some point either because of stamina or strategy.
The arguement against knees, stomps and elbows is just plain ridiculous. To restrict the usage of those moves, inhibits the ability of the fighters and the flow of the match. Without elbows, UFC would be filled with one lay-and-pray contest after another, many fighters in the UFC rely on elbow usage ie. Tito Ortiz. The same applies to Wanderlei Silva, would he be the same showman without his reputable knees and stomps of death? (see Silva v. Kondo). The banning of these moves is foolish, it inhibits the natural ability of the fighters and gives lesser abled fighters shelter under stupid regulations. So what if it causes cuts and injuries, so do kicks, slams and punches. The best example for that would be Belfort v. Couture 2, Vitor threw a punch and opened a huge gash in Randy’s eye. If anything the fighters are responsible for not sustaining cuts and injuries by being expectedly skillful enough to avoid such situations via blocking, dodging, sweep or reversal. Many fighters have gone their whole careers without sustaining a serious cut stoppage or serious injury. The bottom line is that the prevention of moves, even headbutts, takes away from the reality of the fight. One of the many things in my opinion, that makes MMA so much better than boxing, is how realistic it is to an actual fight and displays how to handle against real life situations. Taking away moves clearly detracts from that advantage.
I agree … if we continue to remove a fighter’s essential tools, you’ll find a number of today’s top warriors pushed out of the sport just like Keith Hackney was!
Knees should be allowed in America. Elbows should be allowed in Japan. Headbutts should be allowed. Keep the cage for America, because the camera angles are so much better. A fight should have five- ten minute rounds, that way we have a good chance of having a winner for every fight. Boring fighters should be forced to apologize for their stinky performance or be fired on camera.
15 minutes is not a long time for two well matched opponents to fight. Especially when one or both fighters are determined to stink the place up. They really need to add either more rounds or extend the amount of time that rounds last. They should also have special rules should it go the third round. Like no resting or clinching. Something that will make it very likely that one guy will get their ass kicked. I hate how fighters will use the third round to rest and hope the judges pick them. Give me a break. That is pathetic. If I ran a MMA org, those guys would never be brought back.
I don’t want the fighters to get hurt. If I was getting kneed in the back of the head or shoulder (or back or ass or anywhere else) I’d be tapping out. Fighters should be prepared to win or lose, not hope for a decision. Killer Instinct should be imposed upon these guys. “Give them, the paying audience, their moneys worth.” A guy fighting not to lose is pathetic. Fight to win and if you fail, at least you helped someone else get a highlight reel. I want good fights, not people hurt (to badly).
The reality of a “fight” is doing whatever it takes to inflict damage to an opponent and walk away less hurt. However, these fights are competitions, as close to real combat as possible without permanently maiming someone. It’s not anything goes.
I believe the intention of certain rules are to keep fighters from getting hurt in a way that keeps them out of the cage too long or doing serious permanent damage. And as long as there are rules, there will be fighters (not all) that will exploit rules to their advantages, some fair or some not. Rules should change to accomodate trends. Football does it, basketball does it, and so should MMA.
Personally, I would hide behind my large groin to prevent getting hit.
I totally agreenwith the increase in “fighintg attitude” in the MMA. Fighters should treat each fight like a championship figth…judges wont give the challenger the belt unless they prove they WANT to win it. I hate the whole third round, “lets take it easy” because Im ahead in points mentality. I think there should be more of an incentive to get the KO or sub by making that a BONUS win (ie KO gets u 5k more for winning compared to getting no bonus for a decision win). Im sick of seeing boring fighters like Rasheed Evans stink up the ring but because he has slick takedowns and lay and pray style he can out point his opponents. I mean we are paying (some of us) to watch a fight not a sparring match.
To be fair, however, extending the time limit in fights is not really that plausible. Given that the UFC, PRIDE, etc. get a 3 hour block to promote their events (for a fee), expanding the fights to 30+ minutes as suggested by some may not actually encourage more activity (see Sanae Kikuta vs. Renzo Gracie as a perfect example of a pretty dead fight for around 50 minutes until the submission ending).
Actually I think the IFL got it right by shorteing the fight time. They do three rounds of 4 min each, which in their belief makes the fighter realize he has to do all he can in that short amount of time. I think the UFC in particular should switch to what they do with the TUF preliminary fights, simple two rounds of 5 min each, if its a draw we go to the thrid tie breaker round. That way we dont have to sit through seeing one guy dominate another all three rounds. Or in worst case see the two guys go through lay n pray the whole fight.