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« | Home | »

Is the pro-wrestling influence in UFC unattractive to female sports fans?

By Zach Arnold | January 6, 2012

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An introduction, courtesy of our friend Beau Dure on the general theme at hand:

MMA — like all sports — has to watch its image. The challenges in MMA are unique in the sense that we still have grumpy old sports editors and corporate sponsors who don’t want to deal with the sport. But they’re not unique in the sense that any sport can be stereotyped. Browse any sports site and read the comments about people who think the NBA is populated by “thugs.” Look at the damage control baseball has had to do in the wake of its drug scandals and labor strife.

MMA has unique ties to pro wrestling, particularly in Japan but also in the USA with crossovers such as Brock Lesnar and Bobby Lashley. But MMA and wrestling are a volatile mix. Handle with care.

Here’s the needed background information on this video clip so you can get a summary as to what the context of the discussion is. Hint: The firestarter for this discussion is CM Punk and Convict Chael Sonnen being bestest buddiess in Chicago.

Here’s our summary of some of what was said in the video clip.

“For me, it’s like I’m constantly, it’s like to borrow the words of Bill Hicks, it’s like fucking gnats on a camping trip. I just can’t get rid of it. We can debate about whether it’s got merits or not. I think that’s sort of a fruitless debate. I personally think it’s gutter theatre mixed with, you know, steroid-infused acrobatics. That’s me. But others obviously have a different take. If you like it, it’s not a matter of whether you like it. It’s a question about having ownership over it. People are like, you know, there are reporters out there who like MMA and who like pro-wrestling and they don’t get the influence… ‘what’s wrong with pro-wrestling?’ Here’s a little litmus test — if you were dating a chick who was totally out of your league or even in your league but you really coveted her and she asked you what your interests are, are you really going to say ‘pro-wrestling’? Like, ‘my interests are… uh… pro-wrestling! I’m super interested in pro-wrestling.’ You’ll never get laid! You’d never get laid. And, you know, it’s a stupid litmus test but it’s explanatory on a level of cultural acceptance…

“The pro-wrestling fans who are MMA fans (as well), they never ask themselves ‘is this appropriate?’ Because you have to admit, at some level, some measure of equivocation between MMA and pro-wrestling would be unhealthy for either parties and it seems to me that there is never any moment where when there’s crossover they pause to question whether that’s appropriate… ever. You never see them ever say to themselves, ‘well, hang on a second… do we really want this? OK, it’s OK this time.’ Now, obviously again, we’re talking about a situation that pretty much on its face is… um… not that big a deal. But have you ever seen that impulse, that trigger mechanism where pro-wrestling fans among themselves ever ask if there’s a healthy infuse… and the answer is no because if you view both things as virtuous and if you view both things as unproblematic, you’re not in a position to question whether or not this is appropriate for audiences unlike yourself. And I can tell you, I can tell you… you have to ask yourself, partly it’s MMA’s violence that mainstream sponsors haven’t come along but I can tell you sports fans are not stupid. They’re not stupid. They recognize and they like pro-wrestling, too. It’s not about liking pro-wrestling. It’s about the context in which they enjoy it and I don’t think they like it in the context in which they enjoy sports. And this whole part about moving to Fox, this whole part about growing the UFC to the next level… you can’t do that on the backs of pro-wrestling fans. They’ve got them already, they’re not going anywhere. Now, you can spike them here and there for like a Brock Lesnar event or, you know, for Chael Sonnen, you can spike them. But you pretty much got the ones you’re pretty much going to get. The next level, and frankly the more lucrative level in terms of sponsors and in terms of the right kinds of demos, are sports fans. Now, will the CM Punk thing help attract them? Maybe there’s an argument to be made that it could. I tend to think it won’t effect it either way. But, you know, if you’re never asking yourself and not just any kind of influence here, you know, not just pro-wrestling influence, any kind of influence, is this the appropriate kind of influence that we want? I think those are important questions, especially for a sport that is still peaking (or) some phase of transition.

“Now, I will say again, it’s not that big a deal in and of itself. But, you know, one thing to know is that the UFC insulated themselves. In the main event and co-main event, you have four guys (Rashad Evans, Phil Davis, Chael Sonnen, Mark Munoz) who all wrestled Division I college. You have three of them who are All-Americans and two who are national champions. What do you think I want to talk about when I do radio interviews at sports stations? You think I’m going to mention CM Punk? And more to the point, do you think that guys at 710 ESPN care about CM Punk walking to the ring with Chael Sonnen? They don’t. They want to know what they’re watching is respectable enough to cover. That is the reality. Is this enterprise, despite the fact… ask yourself, with record audiences, with records on PPV, maybe even with a year of decline, some sense of record TV ratings… why is there still so much hesitation? Is it just violence? I don’t think it’s just violence. I think it’s a huge component of it. I think they wonder, is this activity (Mixed Martial Arts), is this worthy enough as an activity despite it’s financial successes to be covered legitimately? And even if you disagree with, you know, mainstream media’s hesitation to get on board, sure would be nice if The New York Times had an MMA blog. Sure would be nice if it wasn’t just The LA Times on the West Coast giving big coverage. Sure would be nice to get a bunch of audiences we don’t really get right now. That’s kind of my point. Every time you see a pro-wrestling influence directly on MMA and you never ask yourself, ‘well, hold on, are we going too far or not?’ In this case we’re not, I don’t think, but if you’re not even having those kinds of questions then you’re not in a proper position to weigh whether or not audiences are being effected in the right way.

“I can take a girl to a Redskins game. Can I take a girl to an MMA match if she thinks this is basically pro-wrestling? Really? I mean… you know, look at the ads the NFL rolls out with now women in jerseys greeting each other at the door with these different kinds of handshakes… they’re making a concerted effort to reach across to get families, women, to get older people, younger people, they want all the demos, they want to be it to be a full affair. if UFC ever wants to share anything like that and, you know, realistically they probably never will but if they want to approach that is making this ‘real pro-wrestling’ the way to do it? I would humbly submit to you that it’s not.

“Don’t like pro-wrestling and you’re a boxing fan? It doesn’t really effect you. But if you’re an MMA fan and you’re like me and you don’t even, you came into this sport not even conceiving of it this way and not enjoying it on those terms and frankly find it distracting… perfect example, this whole Donald Cerrone/Nate Diaz fight. This was a perfectly good fight between top contenders that was ruined for me going into it, I couldn’t even enjoy it properly, because the whole time we had to manufacture some sort of significance around two donks not liking each other at a staged workout. Really? How old are we? And this is reported on in the media ad nauseam! The tones of language devoted to an act of nothingness promoted by each competitor over an act of nothingness completely distracted from what you were going to get any way! If they had never even seen each other before, never even interacted before and just had to face one another, you’d probably would have gotten the exact same fight. You would have gotten the exact same fight and you wouldn’t have had to swallow, ‘he knocked off my cowboy hat! this guy! you don’t have to be from Stockton to be tough!’ Word? Word? You don’t have to be from Stockton to be tough? I didn’t know you could be tough and be from Quezon City.

“There are pretty clear cases to me where we are… it’s a crutch to keep audiences you already have and we don’t really expand the scope of MMA promotion to get audiences that we don’t (have).

“If you’re an MMA fan, you need to ask yourself what it is about the sport that you love, OK? There’s probably a combination of things that you love for anybody. For me, it’s a certain balance of goods. For you, it’s a different one. But you need to have an honest evaluation about what it is where you derive enjoyment. Maybe you derive enjoyment through the entire fight process. Maybe you’re a little more, I don’t know, less sanguine…

“I get labeled incorrectly, I feel like. ‘Oh, you don’t like pre-fight build-up!’ I do like pre-fight build-up. I don’t like pre-fight build-up that is hamfistedly put in front of my face. When Wanderlei (Silva) was fighting Michael Bisping, remember this, and Wanderlei was like, ‘I hate Michael Bisping!” And someone’s like, “Why do you hate Michael Bisping?’ and he goes, ‘I don’t know! I just hate him!’

“I mean, what are we doing? What are we doing?”

Topics: MMA, Media, UFC, WWE, Zach Arnold | 67 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |

67 Responses to “Is the pro-wrestling influence in UFC unattractive to female sports fans?”

  1. James says:

    I’ve fucked plenty of girls and they all knew I LOVED pro wrestling.. GTFO

  2. Chromium says:

    You give way too much time to this guy. If someone were to say “I don’t like pro-wrestling and I don’t really get the appeal,” that’s one thing, but for him to go out of his way to state his hatred for pro-wrestling and any possibility that it might be influencing the sport, that just makes me wonder why you bother recapping this guy Zach. Keep in mind that without pro-wrestling’s template the UFC wouldn’t exist, and without Tito Ortiz and Ken Shamrock’s largely manufactured feud the Zuffa-era probably would have been over before TUF took it off.

    What’s more, pro-wrestling has attracted plenty of female fans with certain draws like the Hardy boys or the Von Erich brothers or the Freebirds back in the day. The UFC having feuds that are played up by the competitors, sometimes with Dana White stoking the fire, that is standard promotional fare while he takes many a page out of the pro-wrestling playbook, none of these things really alienate women.

    The biggest barrier by far for female fans (and many male fans) is going to be the violence, good overall safety record or not. People are still punching each other in the head and bleeding all over each other. If a girl is okay with that then they probably don’t give a fuck if there are “feuds.” Girls like drama just as much as guys do, and if they were put off by excessive and fake manipulation they wouldn’t love reality shows so much.

  3. liger05 says:

    CM punk walking with Sonnen means what exactly?

    I just dont understand why its even a topic. I saw Batista with Pacquiao and HHH with Floyd in one of his fights. Nobody cared so why does anyone care about Punk being there with Sonnen.

    This is a non story!!

    How anyone can blame the way pro-wrestling way of building a star for the demise of iishi is beyond me.

  4. 45 Huddle says:

    That’s Kid Nate?

    • kid nate says:

      no that’s Luke Thomas. Kid Nate likes a good bit of pro wrestling in his MMA. As long as there’s no hint of worked fights.
      Luke has a more nuanced view than this. We talked for 55 minutes. This was just his opening salvo. The qualifications and explanations come later on.
      Luke understands that MMA’s roots are in pro-wrestling. He understands the positive influence of Gorgeous George on Ali, etc etc.
      He also recognizes that the UFC’s biz model is patterned 100% on WWE and that the initial TUF audience came from following WWE. He also rec’s that the fans Brock Lesnar brought in mostly came from WWE.
      He just strongly feels that for MMA to continue to grow the next target is conventional sports fans and media. Those are not the people you reach with pro wrestling style schtick.

      • Jonathan Snowden says:

        Maybe if Luke got out to more MMA events he’d notice that there are plenty of women in the crowd. This is the issue? Whether he would want to sleep with the women who are interested in MMA?

        The sport was built on pro wrestling. Both here and in Japan. The UFC makes millions with their style of promotion. They signed a big money network deal with their style of promotion. Blowing that up to appeal to some mythical mainstream fanbase makes no sense.

      • When I get home (and am not doing responses to this on breaks from work) I’ll watch the video in full to get the greater context.

        From where I sit, though, I still don’t buy any of this argument or concern. Firstly, on the inclusion of CM Punk, that’s something that’s a specific fighter’s prerogative – Sonnen – and not the UFC’s.

        Secondly and more importantly: as far as the effect professional wrestling has on the sport in terms of building anticipation and/or animosity between fighters for a match-up, that is not a direct causal relationship with professional wrestling nor is it even unique to MMA. Elsewhere in these threads I brought up boxing, which on the regular uses this sort of thing to build fights (the HBO “24/7″ being just the easiest example to point to). But even the NFL uses this. Look at the program packages, the interviews, the presentation, the “rivalries”, etcetera.

        There is nothing about what MMA does in terms of anticipatory build and hype that isn’t done by the NFL, NBA, MLB, etcetera. It’s easy to label it as professional wrestling because of the fact that MMA is an individual combat sport rather than a team sport, but beyond that, there’s not a lick of difference.

  5. The bottom line for me is that this whole discussion, while interesting if taken in the right direction, is blowing the CM Punk/Sonnen thing out of proportion. The idea that people are going to see CM Punk escorting Sonnen to the ring as MMA having a strong connection to pro wrestling is a faulty assumption.

    Pro wrestling is, as exhibited by the attitudes towards it, a strange creature that is equal parts mainstream and fringe. Mainstream in the sense that people KNOW it exists, but fringe in the knowledge people have of its players and week to week activities.

    In short, he’s popular with wrestling fans, but outside of a VERY brief flirting with mainstream stardom over the Summer, nobody outside of pro wrestling fans knows who the Hell CM Punk is let alone what the significance is of him walking behind Chael Sonnen to the Octagon.

    As for the rest of this discussion…oy vey. I don’t even know where to start.

    “Don’t like pro-wrestling and you’re a boxing fan? It doesn’t really effect you.”
    - Then he goes on to talk about being annoyed with the animosity and build to Cerrone/Diaz. Does he watch boxing? Because he uses it as an example but IT’S BOXING! That kind of shit happens all the time! Just watch any presser to see what I’m talking about.

    ““The pro-wrestling fans who are MMA fans (as well), they never ask themselves ‘is this appropriate?’ “
    - Where exactly is the equivocation? Sonnen asked Punk to walk alongside him. He’s not asking him to come into the Octagon, cut a promo, and interfere in his fight.

    “What do you think I want to talk about when I do radio interviews at sports stations? You think I’m going to mention CM Punk?”
    - Well no, because nobody cares. And that’s the whole point.

    What a weird, weird rant. It’s built out a hostility towards pro wrestling. Which as a former full-time fan who still occasionally flirts with having passing interest in the sport but then gets turned off by the ghosts of its seedy past and the ugly underbelly of it, I totally get. But in this case, he invokes gnats as an analogy and then proceeds to try to make a mountain out of an ant hill.

    • Also, the problem with drawing women isn’t pro wrestling. The problem with drawing women is that it’s a combat sport. Pro wrestling is not going to, and doesn’t, have any effect on that whatsoever.

      • kid nate says:

        He’s NOT talking about drawing women in. He’s talking about drawing in mainstream sports reporters. Women are a metaphor in this instance.

        • Jonathan Snowden says:

          “Here’s a little litmus test — if you were dating a chick who was totally out of your league or even in your league but you really coveted her and she asked you what your interests are, are you really going to say ‘pro-wrestling’? Like, ‘my interests are… uh… pro-wrestling! I’m super interested in pro-wrestling.’ You’ll never get laid! You’d never get laid. And, you know, it’s a stupid litmus test but it’s explanatory on a level of cultural acceptance…”

          Not a metaphor.

        • ““I can take a girl to a Redskins game. Can I take a girl to an MMA match if she thinks this is basically pro-wrestling? Really? I mean… you know, look at the ads the NFL rolls out with now women in jerseys greeting each other at the door with these different kinds of handshakes… they’re making a concerted effort to reach across to get families, women, to get older people, younger people, they want all the demos, they want to be it to be a full affair. if UFC ever wants to share anything like that and, you know, realistically they probably never will but if they want to approach that is making this ‘real pro-wrestling’ the way to do it? I would humbly submit to you that it’s not.”

          Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t read that as an analogy for sports reporters at all. I read that as another example of the perceived effect professional wrestling has on drawing more mainstream attention for the sport. In this, he’s using sports media and women as two examples, not one as an analogy for the other.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          Well, it depends on what type of girl you are going for when you reveal your love for Pro Wrestling.

          But you might be onto something here. During my time as a huge pro wrestling fan, I never got laid once. As my pro wrestling watching basically went to zero, I got laid.

          I think there might by something to this.

          On the other hand, telling girls you are into the UFC will either get you a “What is that” or a “Wow, I love watching it too.”

        • kid nate says:

          Jonathan you’re the best word twister in the biz but ” it’s a stupid litmus test but it’s explanatory on a level of cultural acceptance…” tells you ita a metaphor.

        • Jonathan Snowden says:

          It’s clearly not a metaphor for sports writers. But it’s really not important enough to argue about.

  6. Kelvin Hunt says:

    Ehh…I’d say that women are even more passionate about guys that use the pro wrestling angle to build a fight…of course this is anecdotal and a small snapshot…but when Cerrone/Diaz fought last weekend…you should have heard the uproar from the crowd inside…I could literally hear females close by stating who they were rooting for and why(most of them were going for Cerrone because Diaz knocked his cowboy hat off).

    The scenario about dating a hot chick out of your league and you not telling her you like pro wrestling isn’t good at all.

  7. Jason says:

    Rasslin needs to stay far away from MMA. We don’t need new MMA fans linking the two together. MMA is trying to gain ground in the mainstream media (which to me has it’s good and bad points from a hardcore fans perspective)and we don’t need anyone making any type or correlation between rasslin and MMA.

  8. The Gaijin says:

    “Hint: The firestarter for this discussion is CM Punk and Convict Chael Sonnen being bestest buddiess in Chicago.”

    18 comments and still not one from our own village idiot telling Zach how it’s so clear how “under his skin” Phael Sonnen has gotten and how Zach is totally going marky mark and getting worked beautifully by the all powerful master of worky workersons that he is SHFH….I myself am SMFH this has not happened yet!

    • EJ says:

      I was going to until you beat me to it, good to know that you continue to be as obssessed with me and my comments as Zach is with Chael.

      • edub says:

        Hahahah he couldn’t resist.

      • The Gaijin says:

        Yeah, that’s the take home point…not that you’ve got some sick obsession with trolling Zach about your man crush Phael and how he’s totally working him and he doesn’t even know it!!! C’mon Zach BRODUDE – totally getting Kaufman’d, and you don’t even know it it’s so rad brah!

        Hell, I’m not even the first person to point it out…but don’t be sad lil’ guy :( at least you’ve got yourself a nice little meme around here!

        • EJ says:

          And what’s your gimmick?, quick to try and call me out at every turn and obssessing about every comment that I make on here. If me calling out Zach for the fact that he can’t seem to go one article about Sonnen without taking a cheap shot makes me a troll i’ll happily accept that.

          I’d rather be a troll than a guy who thinks he’s smarter and more knowledgeable than he really is. And comes off like the typical MB poster who really feels himself way too much and is nothing more that a living gimmick himself.

        • The Gaijin says:

          “And what’s your gimmick?”

          I don’t have a gimmick. Gimmick posting is for 12 year olds and 35 year old virgins.

          “quick to try and call me out at every turn and obssessing about every comment that I make on here.”

          1. Up until 3 weeks ago – I hadn’t posted on this site in over 6 months. And those posts were to discuss a live event I attended for those who were interested in some “on the ground insights” of a normal fan. So I haven’t tried to call you out at every turn or obsessed over any of your comments.

          2. Before I left you trolled everyone about Sonnen and his mastery and brilliance – including his certain defeat of the CSAC and NSAC. How did that turn out? When I did return, every time Sonnen’s name came up – like clockwork from 6+ months ago there you were trying to sadly convince yourself that Zach was getting “marked” by the carny master.

          3. AT LEAST three people made a joke about you running in like the cavalry to defend Phael before I even deigned to say anything…and that was because “He who shall not be named [without EJ trolling the site]” had been mentioned and you hadn’t shown up in 18 comments. Funny that AFTER that TWO MORE people made a similar joke!

          Yup – clearly it is ME who is the gimmick here. Back under the bridge…

  9. [...] Do Women Want to see More Pro Wrestling-Style Behavior in MMA? (FightOpinion.com) [...]

  10. fd says:

    “Don’t like pro-wrestling and you’re a boxing fan? It doesn’t really effect you. But if you’re an MMA fan and you’re like me and you don’t even, you came into this sport not even conceiving of it this way and not enjoying it on those terms and frankly find it distracting… perfect example, this whole Donald Cerrone/Nate Diaz fight. This was a perfectly good fight between top contenders that was ruined for me going into it, I couldn’t even enjoy it properly, because the whole time we had to manufacture some sort of significance around two donks not liking each other at a staged workout.”

    Yes, storylines about how much the two fighters don’t like each other is never an issue in boxing.

    Has this guy ever watched a boxing match? Ever seen a boxing press conference? Seriously this is just blatantly idiotic.

    • nottheface says:

      I think Luke’s poorly worded point was that no one puts boxing and pro wrestling together, no matter how corny the promotion is for a boxing match may be, it is forever viewed as a legitimate sport, separate from pro wrestling. For whatever reason, probably because it looks just like pro wrestling to most people, you can’t separate pro wrestling and mma. Whenever something happens that remotely resembles “sports entertainments” there will always be a question as to what prism – pro wrestling or mma – does the general audience view it through.

      • cutch says:

        Boxing is seen as corrupt by many in the mainstream media, especially in the Don King ruled days. The UFC have largely managed to avoit these type of things and even when insane decisions come up, Dana is usually pissed. Amir Khan’s last fight was controversial and there is now a “mystery man” talking to one one of the judges all through the fight.

      • edub says:

        A couple things:

        -Who’s asking that question? “Whenever something happens that remotely resembles “sports entertainments” there will always be a question as to what prism – pro wrestling or mma – does the general audience view it through.”

        I know plenty of people who loved the buildup, and subsequent scrap between Donald Cerrone and Nate Diaz. The only people who paired it with professional wrestling were a few guys online. Newsflash: We (guys who talk about MMA online all the time) are not the majority of mixed martial arts fans.

        Luke is backing himself into a position that just has little merit.

        1. There’s a mountain of evidence proboxing is related to professional wrestling just as much as MMA is. From Floyd Mayweather competing in the WWE while still having a career, to Butterbean coming in and knocking out Bart Gunn (or at least I thought it was him), to Tyson officiating Austin vs. Michaels. That’s not even counting the years and years of fake and real rivalries from guys like Erik Morales, MAB, Bernard Hopkins, Winky Wright, Joe Frazier, Mike Tyson, and the best example Muhammad Ali.

        2. If he didn’t like the lead up to Cerrone-Diaz he is in the minority. I’m one of the most “sport first” MMA fans there is, and I loved it. I guarantee more casual fans (and hardcore fans as a matter of fact) liked that as well.

        Luke normally has a great opinion on mma in any discussion, but here is a place where he just missed the boat. And his thick skull probably won’t ever let him see that (no disrespect intended, Im still a fan. Plus he would probably admit that he is hard headed when discussing a point in MMA that he feels strongly about).

        (No disr

      • Mark says:

        no one puts boxing and pro wrestling together

        Because boxing has been using the same pro wrestling elements MMA does for so long nobody even notices it anymore. But when Cassius Clay started doing them, which he admittedly borrowed from Gorgeous George, he got the same “This idiot is killing our sport!” negative press Brock got for the UFC 100 post-fight interview. But since that was 50 years ago, nobody notices Floyd Mayweather is doing the same thing. Just like 50 years from now a guy saying stuff to sell fights won’t get the treatment Chael and Lesnar got from MMA purists.

  11. Nick says:

    I’ve told every hot woman I’ve ever met and subsequently dated that I like pro-wrestling AND MMA. Not once did it prevent me from “sealing the deal” like this dude is saying. Furthermore, most of the hot women I’ve dated prefer pro-wrestling and hate watching people get their faces smashed in MMA.

    Face it, there are cross-overs and similarities between MMA and Pro-Wrestling. People like this author need to accept it. Besides, the wrasslin’ influence is usually how the mega UFC fights are sold.

    No one is saying the Undertaker is going to tap Anderson Silva, so please STFU already with the wrasslin’ bashing by MMA elitists.

  12. 45 Huddle says:

    SpikeTV to have a weekly boxing show in the future.

    So they will have the minor leagues for MMA, Boxing, and Pro Wrestling. At least they are consistent.

    • cutch says:

      It makes sense with Spike being a channel for Men. They are apparently going to cross promote Bellator and TNA and have a few TNA guys like Kid Kash fight on a Bellator card and push it hard on TNA’s show, as they can’t put MMA on Spike til 2013.

      • 45 Huddle says:

        I hope that’s a joke. Blurring the lines between Pro Wrestling and MMA like that is not good. There is a good reason why the UFC avoided any sort of cross over like SpikeTV wanted of them with TNA.

        • cutch says:

          That’s what is apparently happening with Bobby Lashley doing both.

          I would’nt mind Bellator bringing in Lashley as HW is an awful division anyway and it’s another name for a tournament spot but leave the Pro Wrestling stuff alone.

  13. Mark says:

    To use a wicked pro wrestling term, Luke Thomas is going for boring cheap heat here. “PRO WRESTLING FANS AREN’T GETTING LAID!” Yawn. Welcome to 1980s stereotypes. Hey, let’s hear about having missing teeth, being poor and living in trailer parks while we’re at it. “Hey, this here girl won’t care about the rasslin’ since I is takin’ her to the fancy smancy restaurant McDonalds!”

    I wouldn’t tell a woman I’m flirting with I like pro wrestling. But I also wouldn’t tell her I like MMA. Or NFL, NBA, NHL, or any sport. Why? Because enough women don’t like sports that you should probably assume she doesn’t want to hear about your sports fandom until proven otherwise. I also wouldn’t tell her I like action movies and drinking beer and other pastimes associated with men if I’m out to impress.

    And I won’t even comment on the rest because it was too boring to read. Oh, wait, wrestling fans can’t read and write either. That’s right.

  14. Megatherium says:

    Pretty good fight card flying under the radar tomorrow night.

    I’m going to go with:

    Rockhold
    Lawler
    Lawal
    Mein
    Saffiedine

    • edub says:

      I got pretty much the same except Woodley winning. What makes you pick Mein, if you don’t mind me asking?

      • Megatherium says:

        It does seem counterintuitive when you look at the style matchup I’ll grant you that but I’m really exited about the trajectory that Meins’ career is on and I guess I’m just hoping his speed, footwork and counterwrestling is enough to discourage Woodley and throw him off his game.

        • edub says:

          True. I think if Woodley can’t put his striking and takedowns together early he could be in trouble. But I still gotta go with Tyrone. Too much to lose IMHO.

    • “Pretty good fight card flying under the radar tomorrow night.”

      Entertaining, yes, but I don’t know about “good.” Most if not all of these fights are pretty lopsided. It’s basically an episode of WWF Wrestling Challenge, and Keith Jardine is Jim Powers.

      *watches Luke’s head explode*

  15. Zach Arnold says:

    https://www.facebook.com/fight.opinion/posts/301908473195101

    Who cares. Why write this junk? I’ve grown tired of most of your articles and posts, and what’s good is generally rehashed from sites like MMAfighting. Goodbye, Fight Opinion. Your opinion stinks.

  16. edub says:

    Well, Cris Cyborg Santos failed for steroids in California.

    Wonder how long she was one the juice for, maybe her whole time as a fighter?

    No more reason to have a 145lb division in SF for women. Unless Gina comes back now…

    • fd2 says:

      I’d certainly assume it was her whole time as a fighter, but if that’s the case, I wonder why she popped positive now? If you manage to cycle correctly for six US fights in a row, what causes you to fuck it up for the seventh?

      Definitely not suggesting this is a false result or anything, I’m just curious as to how that happens.

      • edub says:

        Yea, I’m very curious of that too. What did she mess up this time (or possibly the CSAC do differently) to make this test different?

        • Steve4192 says:

          Someone mentioned on another forum that she recently switched strength & conditioning coaches. I’m guessing the new guy either changed her stack or fucked up her cycle.

  17. cutch says:

    Cyborg has been busted for roids, Strikeforce should ditch her weight class and concentrate on the 135ers and when she’s back in a year, she can come back in that weight class.

    • edub says:

      If I’m Strikeforce I cut all ties. She’s dominated with sheer size and strength on most of her opponents, and it was probably all aided by performance enhancing drugs.

      • 45 Huddle says:

        Don’t cut all ties, but get rid of that useless 145 pound title…. Concentrate all of the female talent on 135 pounds…. And if Cyborg gets off the juice, she can go to 135 pounds.

        Guys going on roids is bad enough. It’s especially bad for females because it does even worse things to their bodies.

    • Kelvin Hunt says:

      She could barely make 145…no way she could make 135…Santos that is.

      • edub says:

        Well, her keeping all that muscle on could have been a by product of a long period of steroid use. She could drop a lot of it now, the same way we saw plenty of people drop muscle/weight when they came to the UFC from Pride.

  18. Jonathan says:

    Did she need to use steroids? I think that she has to have been on them all the time…as she has looked the same in every fight.

  19. The Gaijin says:

    I look forward to Cyborg’s successful, tearful TRT defense.

  20. [...] Fight Opinion investigates if Women Want to see More Pro Wrestling-Style Behavior in MMA? [...]

  21. Zack says:

    Stoked to see a Jim Powers reference on here LOL

  22. Megatherium says:

    I didn’t know Sweet Daddy Siki had a country and western band.

  23. Dave says:

    I like Luke, I really do, but he comes off really crummy when he tries to talk about things he doesn’t like. I’m not about to watch a 55 minute video to understand his point if it can’t be summed up within the article that it was posted under. Instead, the article just hypes the video and does the standard array of awkward verbiage.

    This really just comes off like “DAMN YOU.. YOU.. NERRRDDDDS!!”

    I mean, when your argument is, “if you told a hot girl you liked pro wrestling, would you get laid?” I don’t know what to say to that, clearly the intent is saying, “Pro wrestling is nerdy, you are all nerds and I don’t get it. You nerds don’t get laid.”

    Are we in high school and are some of the MMA media the jocks and are some the AV club?

    I, like many, grew up watching pro wrestling because it is a thing a lot of guys do growing up. Like a lot of hobbies that are developed from a young age, it might fade away a bit but it is still something you remember and talk about but just grow out of actively caring about. It is kind of like Legos. Man, Legos were the greatest toy ever, but after a certain age it is impossible to justify sitting around and playing with Legos. But be sure when I have a kid that I am going to buy that kid Legos and will find a way to justify me playing with my kid and showing him how awesome Legos can be.

    Pro wrestling is the muscled-up male soap opera of guys beating the shit out of each other while being superhuman. It creates a certain level of drama and excitement for the viewers and yes, there is a reason why when fans get older they start finding more holes in it; because they are old enough to see it.

    MMA is muscled-up male sport based around human guys who beat each other up in a realistic fashion (as it is indeed real) full of a lot of fans and fighters who grew up watching wrestling. If you think someone dropping a Macho Man reference or if a fighter does something to emulate a pro wrestler don’t get upset with the world that you didn’t share that hobby with the rest of the people that did and declare them dweebs who can’t get laid.

    Having a good personality and not looking like a caveman will get you laid, as will being a moderately good person that is enjoyable to be around. It has nothing to do with your interests.

  24. david m says:

    Poor UFC 142. I would be shocked if they get more than 200k buys.

    As for this ridiculous thread, the idea that women would find cage fighting less palatable because of ties to pro wrestling is beyond stupid. What % of girls who watch UFC have even the foggiest fucking idea that Ken Shamrock was a pro wrestler first, or that Josh Barnett wrestles in Japan, etc etc etc. This is below this site, honestly. Just a retarded thread.

    Fortunately, the stench of pro wrestling has been mostly removed; the top guys today don’t come from a fake fighting background, Brock excluded (and Barnett doesn’t count because nobody knows who he is).

  25. Don G says:

    My only concerrn is having to suffer through too much of this phoney controversy or conflict nonsense. They are professional fighters, they fight for a living, no one expects them to be angry with or hate every single person they fight so I hope we don’t drift over to manufactured controversy all the time. Just sign to fight, train to fight and get in the blamed cage and fight

  26. VinRokk says:

    “Here’s a little litmus test — if you were dating a chick who was totally out of your league or even in your league but you really coveted her and she asked you what your interests are, are you really going to say ‘pro-wrestling’? Like, ‘my interests are… uh… pro-wrestling! I’m super interested in pro-wrestling.’ You’ll never get laid! You’d never get laid. And, you know, it’s a stupid litmus test but it’s explanatory on a level of cultural acceptance…”

    Luke Thomas is a friggin copying fool! Champ Creed started using this same exact analogy back in November on the Wrestling Marks of Excellence Radio Show which just so happens to air in the Va/DC/Md area where Luke lives. Coincidence? Hell no!!! Beyond the Pro Wrestling-MMA argument, Luke’s copying proves one thing that I’ve been saying — mainstream MMA writers/journalist (bloggers, etc.) pay attention to the little guys (grass roots media) and steal their material!!!

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