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« | Home | »

Joe Rogan on why Edgar/Maynard III is important & how Fedor lost his competitiveness

By Zach Arnold | August 25, 2011

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500,000 views of Pat Curran’s KO of Marlon Sandro last Saturday in the Bellator cage. One of the many interesting comments Joe Rogan made during this Tapout Radio interview is how he would love to see a lot of the Bellator fighters in the UFC and that he thinks they would do well. For instance, he would like to see Pat Curran, Ben Askren, Hector Lombard, and Eddie Alvarez. In fact, Joe went as far as to say that he thinks Alvarez could be the #1 Lightweight in MMA and that the #1 spot in that weight class can be claimed by several guys right now (both inside and outside the UFC).

“You see how high-level [Eddie's] striking has gotten. He’s a gamer, he goes after you.”

We won’t be seeing Eddie any time soon in the UFC if you believe Tony Loiseleur’s report at Sherdog that Alvarez will get to fight Shinya Aoki in 2012 in Bellator.

Joe Rogan also thinks Gilbert Melendez has the right to stake a claim at the top of the 155 pound division.

“There’s so many fucking good guys in that division. It’s such an exciting time.”

Which leads us to the comments he made on the Tapout radio show about the upcoming Frankie Edgar/Gray Maynard trilogy fight and why it’s such an important fight for UFC’s Houston event.

“Just from a cinematic point of view, that last fight was so fucking dramatic! There was so much going on in that fight, you know, Frankie Edgar getting ROCKED bad in that first round and it looked so close to being stopped so many times. I mean, you wondered like how does a guy come back from this, he’s getting fucking battered and then what he did do? He comes back in the second round and he fucking wins it and then he wins the third and he might have won every round other than the first and the real question became, how much damage did Gray Maynard do in the first? Some people think it was like a 10-5 round, a 10-4 round, it was ridiculous. He knocked him down, he hurt him, I mean is it just 10-8? If that’s just 10-8, that seems a little silly, that’s as close as you can get to stopping somebody and not stopping and beat him up for the whole round? To me, it might like 10-6 or 10-7, you know, it seems like a big round.

“So, then that became the debate, how many other rounds did Gray Maynard win? Did he win one other round? And it’s like, how the fuck did Frankie Edgar come back from that? Frankie Edgar is a MONSTER, you got to put that guy away, his heart is INCREDIBLE! I mean, the beating that kid took in that first round to come back and start teeing off on Gray in the second round was ridiculous, incredible. I didn’t know if it was even possible for him to make it to the finish. I was like, is he going to be able to go five rounds after the first round, is his body just going to give out on him? I mean, that was a crazy first round.

“So, I’m really curious to see what kind of alterations either guy has made, you know, they must have watched that fight 100 times, they must be thinking about the moment what could have been different. For Gray Maynard, maybe if he picked his shots more and didn’t swarm, maybe he could have stopped him. For Frankie Edgar, what was it that caused him to get hit, what silly mistakes did he make, what did he do when he dropped his hands, what was it? They’re going to study those tapes and they’re going to come back and it’s going to be a fascinating fight. So that one I’m looking forward to just from maybe not even stylistically, just as a story, you know, just an amazing fight.

“Plus, that division is so crazy right now. With Ben Henderson’s victory over Jim Miller and then (Donald) Cerrone destroying (Charles) Oliveira, it’s like that fucking weight class is STACKED, God damn what a crazy shark tank that weight class is. You know, everywhere you look at 155 there’s another killer, it’s a weight class filled with savages. It’s almost too competitive, it’s crazy.”

From there, the interview discussion took an interesting turn in regards to how quickly someone’s career can turn on a dime and the name Jamie Varner was mentioned. Guys who were on top of their game just a few years ago now are now often considered ‘washed up’ and finished, both physically and mentally.


Fedor should have had this conversation with Greg Jackson before he fought Werdum

Then the name Fedor came up… and whether or not he will be able to make a come back as a competitive MMA fighter.

“I think Fedor probably got tired of fighting but I also think Fedor never fought the guys that he fought even when he lost before. That Bigfoot Silva guy would have given him a hard time at any point in his career, I firmly believe that. That guy takes a tremendous shot, he’s a legitimate BJJ black belt, and he’s a big fuck. That guy’s big. He’s like 290, cuts down to 265, he’s got giant hands and feet, if he hits you it’s like getting hit by a fucking tree, you know? And he gets on top of you… that legitimate black belt beast and he’s dropping bombs on your fucking head, try peeling that guy off of you, try hip escaping when that guy’s got the mount on you. YOU’RE FUCKED! You know, if a real BJJ black belt mounts you, there’s a certain feeling like, OH SHIT, like this is like let Jean-Jacques Machado mount you, let Jacaré mount you, and you get this creepy feeling like OK, I’m never getting out of this, never, and that’s the kind of mount that fucking big guy has and he’s punching you in the head? If Fedor fought that guy in PRIDE the guy might have beat him. If the same Bigfoot Silva of today fought Fedor in PRIDE five years ago, he might have beat him. I’m not saying he would have but he might of.

“I think it’s also him being an undersized Heavyweight that quite frankly is fat, you know? He’s obviously very skilled, you know, you can’t look at the way he came back and won the Brett Rogers fight and not be impressed. You can’t look at the way he timed Andrei Arlovski’s knee and KO’d him, you can’t look at that and not be impressed. You can’t look at the armbar that he nailed (Mark) Coleman with, the fucking kimura that hit (Kevin) Randleman with, you can’t look at those and not be impressed. I’m forever going to be a Fedor fan, he’s amazing, he’s an amazing fighter. But I think when you compare him to the greats of all time, if there was a 225 pound weight class you know he might have been one of the greatest of all time. But as a heavyweight? I think there’s always going to be guys that are like just going to be able to beat him, I think that there’s a few guys that are just too big and too strong and he’s certainly not the same guy that he was back when he was in PRIDE, he doesn’t even physically look like that guy in any more. He’s lost a considerable amount of muscle mass. I know that he doesn’t lift weights any more, he talks about it, but he just does fight training. I need think he needs to life weights, man, I think your body needs to be fucking strong.

“Who am I to question Fedor’s motivations or techniques for training but I just think that strength & conditioning is part of the fucking program, man, you got to be strong to pull shit off sometimes. A lot of it is technique but there’s time where you’re going to rely on your body and if you look at Fedor’s body from 2001 and Fedor’s body from now, he’s a different dude. He always had the gut but he used to be way thicker, he used to look like a guy that’s throwing kettlebells around all the time, he used to look like what he was, this fucking Judo/Sambo champion.

“There is a problem in losing the way he’s lost three times in a row and the last two in really kind of devastating fashion, he was really destroyed and that takes a lot of your motivation away, man, it just does. But, technically, there’s no question about it. He has to get in there and train with a camp of really good guys that are going to test him, that are going to test him hard. He can’t hang out with that Baby Fedor kid and a couple of others and his brother and a few other fighters, it’s not enough. He needs a world-class camp. I mean, he’s going in there against Dan Fucking Henderson, he’s going in there against Alistair Overeem, he’s going in there against a Josh Barnett, he needs a God Damn world-class camp. He needs a strength-and-conditioning coach. He needs someone to push him. He needs someone to feed him correct food, you know. He needs people to monitor his heart rate to make sure that when he gets up in the morning that he’s not overtraining. He needs a lot of shit. There’s a lot on the line when you compete at the highest levels of the game, you know, and Fedor I don’t think is getting the kind of training that he could have. It was enough in the beginning, he’s so fucking skilled, the Sambo, he’s so skilled with striking, he’s such a wild man, he’s so fearless, it was enough to beat a lot of people for a long time but I don’t know if it’s going to be enough to beat the guys of today. I think there’s a different breed today and he’s not the same guy any more.”

Dan Henderson’s name was mentioned as someone who is heading in the opposite direction for his career.

“Dan Henderson is a lot hungrier than him at 40 but Dan Henderson is a fucking savage. Dan Henderson is one of those guys that just, look, you have to remember that he came from a wrestling background, a pure wrestling background with really very little striking training and he went and became one of the most dangerous one-punch knockout artists in the history of the sport and that’s for real, man. That knockout that hit Michael Bisping with, that shit is going to be on highlight reels to the end of humanity. They’re going to carve that in little cartoon blocks on a stone wall after the nuclear holocaust, people that are going to be alive that remember that knockout.

“There’s knockouts that he hit like when he put Babalu away and Babalu’s eyes started rolling in his head, dude… Dan Henderson is a monster. He can fucking punch and he knows he can fucking punch. He knows that all he has to do is clip you one time with a clean one and you’re fucksville, you know, and the fact that he was able to do that Fedor and the fact that he was able to do that to Feijao, how quickly that Feijao fight turned around, he’s a monster, man. At 40. But you know why? Because he still likes to fight.

“Everyone’s different, man, you know, you got your motivations and it’s different than Tom up the block, everybody’s got their own fucking thing for why they’re doing this sport but a certain point and time some dudes start to question why. They don’t know what their motivations are any more, they don’t know if it’s smart, they don’t know if there’s other things to pursue but there’s money involved in this and so they keep doing it but they lose the passion (for) it. The guys that don’t lose the passion, the Randy Coutures, the Dan Hendersons, they can compete well into an elevated age that we have never considered to be competing at like the highest level of combat sports just a few decades ago. You know, there was no fucking 40 year old bad motherfuckers in 1988, you remember 1988 when (Mike) Tyson was the king? Man, fucking 40 year old dudes were done. If you were 40 you had a gut and you looked stupid and you got your ass kicked always…”

‘Elevated’ is an interesting word choice here. A lot of guys in their 30s and 40s back in 1988 weren’t using Testosterone Replacement Therapy, either. Amazing how that works.

The irony of listening to this radio passage hit me when Geno Mrosko wondered whether or not Fox & mainstream media outlets would investigate issues like TRT & steroid usage in MMA because UFC will soon become ‘mainstream.’ You can read my response here. When FNC is suddenly pushing Dana White & UFC as what President Obama should start studying in order to create new jobs, do you think that big media outlets are going to apply heavy scrutiny in regards to UFC business practices or the drug usage by fighters? Not a chance. Two years ago, Dana White had his infamous rant on Loretta Hunt on Youtube. It sure didn’t hurt UFC’s bottom line in getting $100 million USD a year from Fox, did it? I expect UFC to largely get a free pass from the mainstream media when it comes to potential scandals.

Topics: MMA, Media, UFC, Zach Arnold | 37 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |

37 Responses to “Joe Rogan on why Edgar/Maynard III is important & how Fedor lost his competitiveness”

  1. Wonderjudas says:

    Scott: thank you very much for these transcripts. They are appreciated.

  2. 45 Huddle says:

    1) For somebody who is so critical of judges and the scoring system, Joe Rogan would make one bad judge.

    2) Eddie Alvarez’s wide open style would get him beaten badly in the UFC. We have seen it time and time again. Fighters who look awesome outside of the UFC look average inside it. His striking is too sloppy and he would get grinded out by the better wrestlers. everytime he throw a big strike he plants his feet too much. A simple lower you level and shoot the double leg would make him look bad by UFC caliber fighters.

    3) I often think Rogan is a great MMA Commentator but a wack job outside of it. Some of the things that come out of his mouth during his podcast are of an uneducated variety. Even his views on MMA don’t pass simple logic tests.

    • fd says:

      Alvarez trains with Edgar on a weekly basis.

      I don’t personally think he’d beat Edgar, but the two are not as far apart as you assume.

      • 45 Huddle says:

        Not just Edgar. Maynard, Miller, Henderson, Guida, and a few others would all give him problems based on his style….

        • edub says:

          Alvarez IMO would have no issues with Guida. His takedown defense is worlds better than what Clay has beaten in his last couple fights, and he trains with Edgar routinely who’s wrestling is a league above “the caveman”’s. Miller or Henderson are a level below him, in both wrestling and striking. However, he would have problems with the top two, Melendez, Guillard, Pettis.

          There is a small sect of guys online who have been preaching Alvarez as the #1 LW for a while now. I’m not one of those. The top 5 is pretty locked in with any combination of Maynard, Edgar, Melendez in the top 3, Aoki at #4, and Alvarez at #5.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          Who has he beaten to be currently Top 5?

          His two best wins are Kawajiri and Huerta.

          That doesn’t make anybody Top 5 in 2011….

        • edub says:

          He’s been top 5 since 2008, and hasn’t lost since. Nobody in the UFC besides Kenny Florian, or Gray Maynard have gotten the wins top put themselves above him. Guillard is close, and so is Guida. But guys like Henderson or Pettis were never (and should never) have been ranked above him.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          Correct…. He has been Top 10 since the days people still believed that Japanese MMA still meant something. Many fighters have proven that to be false…. And the rankings should be adjusted accordingly.

          Just not losing is the funniest reason for a high ranking. Strength of schedule here. The same thing you were talking about for how people shouldn’t be down too much on the loser of Shogun/Griffin.

          Alvarez really doesn’t have anything to back up his current ranking.

          And Guillard wrecked Dunham who really should have beaten Sherk if it wasn’t for bad judges. Guillard, Guida, Henderson, & Miller all have more reason to be ranked higher then him. They are in the pressure cooker fighting better competition time and time again. Alvarez just doesn’t have that right now. His ranking should reflect that.

        • edub says:

          Your right Strength of schedule is the most improtant thing in MMA, and I have Melvin Guillard and Clay Guida at #6 and #7 (Kenny was also ranked ahead of Eddie until he dropped down).

          They just haven’t done enough to overtake those guys.

          Japanese MMA has failed at some points in this current landscape, but it’s not the only record that has. Jim Miller and his “amazing” win streak was destroyed by a guy who got beat up by Anthony Pettis three fights ago. The same guy that was beat by Bart Palasweski less than two years ago, and blanketed by Clay Guida who himself lost to Kenny Florian and Diego Sanchez in 2009.

          If Eddie had opponents who were worthy of usurping his rankings like if BJ Penn came back down or Gray Maynard, Gilbert Melendez, and Frankie Edgar (who have all passed him in the past 2 years) then he would be dropped down further. The guys that are right on his tail simply haven’t done that yet.

          Eddie hasn’t been fighting good competition, but has been doing what he is supposed to do in destroying those guys who aren’t on his level.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          In the last 3 years, he is 0-1 against Top 10 guys. And that loss was almost 3 years ago. So you can’t just keep on fighting non-Top 10 competition and expect to stay in the rankings. Especially when so many other guys are constantly fighting better competition.

          And your MMA math isn’t very good. Bart should have never won that fight. It was a bad judges decision by basically everybody who watched the fight. And fighters lose when they are in the UFC because they are constantly fighting good guys. Staying undefeated against non-relevent talent is meangingless.

          He is lucky to be Top 10 based on any respectable standard….

          Once again…. 0-1 against Top 10 guys over a 3 year time period…. Not good….

        • edub says:

          “In the last 3 years, he is 0-1 against Top 10 guys. And that loss was almost 3 years ago. So you can’t just keep on fighting non-Top 10 competition and expect to stay in the rankings. Especially when so many other guys are constantly fighting better competition.”

          Yes, but in the last 3.5 years he’s 2-1 against top ten competition. Not to mention guys like Roger Huerta, Pat Curran, and Katsunori Kikuno are all on the level of guys like Kamal Shalorus, Jeremy Stephens, Rafael Dos anjos, Gleison Tibau, Shane Roller, Waylon Lowe, Takanori Gomi, Shannon Gugherity, Steve lopez, Jamie Varner etc…

          “He is lucky to be Top 10 based on any respectable standard….”

          No it seems to be yours is one of the only standards where he is barely top 10.

          “And your MMA math isn’t very good. Bart should have never won that fight. It was a bad judges decision by basically everybody who watched the fight.”

          I did score it for Pettis, but it was a close fight. It wasn’t an all out robbery along the lines of Kampman-Sanchez, Rua-Machida 1, or half of Leonard Garcia’s wins.

          Either way, it was freaking Bart Palaszewski.

    • smoogy says:

      Try watching a recent Eddie Alvarez fight and suppressing your inclination to dump on anything other than your beloved UFC, and you’ll find that his style isn’t “wide open” at all like it used to be. His hands and sense of distance are tops in the division; any discerning fan can see it.

      • 45 Huddle says:

        I have watched his Bellator fights. I;ve been to 4 Bellator’s already. Hardly hating on Bellator or their fighters.

        But he does fight wreckless, even still…..

  3. Dave says:

    Man, you couldn’t pay me to watch Frankie Edgar or Gray Maynard fight. I fell asleep during both fights and neither guy is a personality that will catch on with the public. Sure, the hardcores love this series of fights, but in the end what does that mean?

    The division might be somewhat stacked, but with either of those guys as champion don’t expect the masses to care. Personality goes far for a champion.

    • 45 Huddle says:

      You fell asleep during Frank Edgar vs. Gray Maynard 2?

      Why even post on a MMA related site or follow the sport if that fight puts you to sleep.

      Even now, it is still Fight of the Year in my opinion and one of the best UFC title fights of all time.

      • edub says:

        If you’re a fan of MMA, then there is no logical explanation of Edgar-Maynard 2 being a less than stellar fight.

        It should win the FOTY award, no question.

      • Dave says:

        Yes, because if someone doesn’t agree with you they clearly have no interest in the sport. Right? That is your running theme.

        The rest of the card was less-than-stellar and the first fight was just kind of there for me. Neither man give much of a reason to care about watching them fight outside of it being for a title.

        I’m sure it was a great fight, but the moment has passed and I’ve tried going back to watch it and as most things, watching it after you know what happens really doesn’t do it justice.

        I’m not sure you got the actual point I was conveying here, it had nothing to do with the fight and everything to do with them being two bland, personality voids of fighters.

        • fd2 says:

          If you can’t enjoy a good fight because you’re not interested in the fighters “personalities”, perhaps you should stick to pro-wrestling.

        • Dave says:

          That.. really wasn’t the point, fd2. I didn’t see the fight, so I can’t speak to my enjoyment of it. The point I am making is I am a dude who has been watching this shit since ‘94 and I find these guys devoid of personality that I couldn’t be bothered to stay up to watch them fight the second time.

          I can only imagine how people who aren’t commenting on the internet feel about them.

        • Jason Harris says:

          “I can only imagine how people who aren’t commenting on the internet feel about them.”

          They probably watched the fight, talk about how it was an awesome scrap, and don’t pose as cool guys by bashing on things they haven’t seen.

    • Chris27 says:

      Sucks you fell asleep, you missed one of the best fights of the year.

  4. Tommy says:

    MMA/UFC is far off the mainstream media’s radar the UFC could easily skate by without them ever noticing any kind of scandal.

    With the Fox deal the UFC is no longer at the kid’s table but don’t hold your breath if your expecting the best investigative mainstream reporters to sink their teeth into the UFC anytime soon.

    Going to have to count on the current crop on MMA media to hold the UFC to task on any potential scandals. Take that for what its worth.

  5. edub says:

    Completely disagree with anybody who says edgar won the third. IMO it’s emotion talking, because although he landed a few more he got rocked again and got taken down twice.

    I think that is the round that screwed Maynard, because all anybody could think about was Edgar “surviving”.

    • EJ says:

      It has nothing to do with emotion several people think he just did more than Gray did in the round just like in the fight overall. To me Edgar laid the blueprint in how to not only beat but outclass Maynard in those last 4 rounds it was a think of beauty to watch really.

      • edub says:

        But he didn’t. That’s what I’m saying: 2nd round he outclassed him, 4th round he outclassed him, 5th round was close and could have gone either way. The third from an MMA scoring perspective was clearly Maynard’s round. It shouldn’t be lumped in with the other 4.

        • fd says:

          I don’t agree with this. The amount of quality punches they landed on each other in round 3 was comparable, and Maynard’s takedowns came at the end of the round and ended with him stuck in a submission as the bell rang. You could argue the round for Maynard but it certainly wasn’t “clearly” his.

        • edub says:

          Yes the quality shots were comparable, but I don’t think anyone could argue that Frankie’s shots were any where close to Gray’s. Whenever Gray landed clean Franke flew backwards, and one landed so hard in the third that the cage was the only thing that kept Frankie on his feet. If the amount of shots are comparable then Gray has to have the advantage because his power is so much greater than Edgar’s.

          Gray landed two takedowns in the round. The last one saw Frankie grab for a guillotine simply because he was going to his back already. I would hardly call that stuck in a submission.

    • david m says:

      I had Frankie winning every round sans the first.

      LOL @ falling asleep at one of the most dramatic mma fights in history.

      The idea of Lay Guida being top 5 is the silliest thing I’ve ever heard. He isn’t top 10. I want to see Guida-Guillard; I wont even watch the fight live; I will tivo it and watch it in slow-mo so I can savor every second before Melvin knocks Lay unconscious.

  6. Crooklyn says:

    Thanks for the props, Fight Opinion. I always feel honored when ya’ll pick up one of our shows to do a feature on. *Respek knuckles*

  7. fd2 says:

    “That.. really wasn’t the point, fd2″

    It might not be the point you meant to convey, but it’s the point you got across.

    • Dave says:

      Or what you chose to interpret.

      • fd says:

        It was a fight that was significant – it was for the UFC lightweight championship and the #1 lightweight in the world spot.

        It was a fight that was good – pretty much every site had it as a FOTY candidate, there’s widespread agreement that it was a terrific fight.

        So, because the personalities of the fighters bored you, the significance of the fight wasn’t enough to keep you awake to watch it, and the fact that it was a terrific fight isn’t enough to get you to watch it after the fact.

        Whatever you meant to convey, what you did convey is that significant fights and good fights are not as important to you as personalities.

        Which is why I suggested that you go watch pro wrestling, where personalities are more important than whether a match is good or significant.

        • Zheroen says:

          It was a decent fight with an amazing first round. After Edgar survived that, it was above-average, at best.

          Way to buy into the hype.

  8. [...] Joe Rogan on why Edgar/Maynard III is important & how Fedor lost his competitiveness | Fight Opinion [...]

  9. [...] Joe Rogan on why Edgar/Maynard III is important & how Fedor lost his competitiveness – Fight Opinion [...]

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