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« | Home | »

Comments from UFC judge Doug Crosby who scored Edgar/Penn fight 50-45 in Abu Dhabi

By Zach Arnold | April 12, 2010

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CompuStrike stats for Frankie Edgar vs. BJ Penn fight at UFC 112.

Jordan Breen says this is legitimate and it is Doug Crosby.

This is really a highly sober, rational and mature way for a judge to act after helping torpedo an athlete.

For those asking if it’s really Crosby, yes. He routinely posts on the UG. You can check his post history.

Let’s take a look at (supposedly) his comments:

THE JUDGING GENIUS RETURNS FROM THE MIDDLE EAST

So….Just returned from Abu Dhabi, and I haven’t been in my duplex more than 20 minutes, when the Doorman calls me on the intercom in a state of panic…

Seems there are hundreds of moaning, howling ghouls in “RVCA” and “Prodigy/Hilo Boy” T-shirts surrounding the building like extras from “Zombieland”…

And they’re chanting “50/45!” over and over, and trying to push their way into the lobby…..

Which gives me a little time to talk to you, my dear friends.

So I’m wondering…..Should I tell you how I scored Penn/Edgar, and why, right now, up front?

But that seems kinda like the Pope or the King back in the day, just writing down what he wants to say, and having one of his burly churls nail it to the door of the church for everyone to read…It seems a bit…distant, a bit ‘above it all’, don’tcha think?

Because God knows I have plenty to say and no shortage of burly churls; no dearth of hulking familiars to do my bidding have I….

Perhaps just announcing my presence is enough for now. Perhaps simply allowing some of you, my faithful friends and fellow MMA devotees, to say what YOU want to say is more….Democratic; more…..Enlightened.

A behaviour more consistent with a Progressive such as myself.

After all, isn’t that my job? Isn’t it incumbent upon me, as a Judge, to make myself available for your criticism? If I take the plane ride, and get to the venue, and score the fights, I have a kind of….Contract with the fans; a contract that specifically allows you to criticize me. And I will be glad to defend the terms of that agreement, even if it means I have to take the weight sometimes.

I knew this was coming as I scored the fight. I knew the inescapable inevitability of criticism was waiting back here. I saw the ride; and I bought a ticket.

So what I’m thinking is…… why deny you guys? You earned the right to say what you think by buying the PPV. Don’t I owe you a little time to say everything you want to say? Isn’t that a better way to continue to build a bridge to the fans? By giving them their say? Isn’t that what I owe you?

Shakespeare wrote

“THE TIME APPROACHES, THAT WILL, WITH DUE DECISION, MAKE US KNOW; WHAT WE SHALL SAY WE HAVE, AND WHAT WE OWE….”

And we all HAVE my scores…..

But what do we….OWE???

So allow me to cast up my accounts with you as equitably as possible, won’t you?

Interestingly, I’ve been slightly taken aback by the response my score for the Penn/Edgar fight has engendered…but not in the way (some of) you guys have responded….I kind of expected that.

What’s been surprising is how many people, at the event, in the hotel, at the airport, fighters, production staff, etc., have told me how glad they were that I scored the FIGHT, and not the FIGHTERS.

Are you guys with me on that, even just a little? Can you understand what I mean by that?

May I also mention that I forgive you?

For your anger, your insults, and your crassness? NOT all of you….You know who you are. Yes; YOU: Over there, with the purple Nikes on, waiting for the spaceship in the tail of comet to come take you to a world where everyone agrees with you….and YOU over there…the one who thinks his heroes never lose….

So yes, I forgive you. I started this thread knowing that a percentage of you would behave the way you have. I knew you would when I scored the fight as well. I forgave you then.

And even as I forgave you, I prepared myself to defend your right to criticize me, and make myself available for that criticism. Isn’t that something I kind of…started out by saying?

As fans, I owe you that. Remember me saying that….Pages ago? That you have the right to criticize me? Wasn’t I the person who brought that up? Wasn’t I the person who gave you the opportunity to be heard? By the person you are angry with?

Should I even mention that most of the virulent criticisms aren’t even consistent with each other? Or is that ‘condescending’? Which is to say…..are the things you’ve written in these last 7 pages available for criticism as well? Or does suggesting that constitute a similar heresy to my scoring in Penn/Edgar?

The reason last question is because I have to make bit of a decision…..Like I said pages ago; do I just lay out why I scored Penn/Edgar the way i did, and leave it at that? Or do I entertain a….dialogue with you (yes, YOU)? Do I go post-by-post and address your issues, both the rational and the ridiculous, for the sake of a democratic dialogue? Do I pick and choose among the posts for the ones (dissenting or otherwise) I feel are worthy of explanation, refutation, argument? Do I respond to ridicule with ridicule? Viciousness with viciousness? Do I pay each and every one of you with your own currency? Or do I just say what I think as far as that fight, and move on?

I posed that question pages ago. What direction would any of you be inclining towards, were you me? I wonder.

I just took a few moments to go back to the beginning of this thread and re-read everything I said, and the responses it engendered. I recommend it to all of you. My intellectual mentor, Dr. Jacques Vallee’, years ago told me “Seek out your enemies, Douglas, and listen to what they have to say. Than go think for awhile.”

Reading over what’s been said, in both tone and content, has been enlightening.

All of that being said…..

I’ve mentioned numerous times on other threads that the scoring criteria exist for a reason, just like the 10-point “must” system exists for a reason; and that the scoring criteria are guidelines within which Judges arrive at a decision on a round-by-round basis.

It is a Judge’s obligation to interpret the fight and use the criteria as guidelines. But a fight is an observed event that does require interpretation, observation, wisdom.

And, in my considered opinion, Edgar dictated the tone of the fight, successfully implemented and executed a strategy, landed better strikes, and basically outworked Penn.

And that is an interpretation by a ringside observer with an understanding and appreciation of MMA, who has Judged numerous (hundreds) of fights.

I re-watched the fight in my hotel in Abu Dhabi and saw nothing that would influence me to score it any differently.

I support and encourage your right to criticize my scoring. And I forgive you for your attacks of both a professional, and, regrettably, personal nature.

From commenter Mortality – “50-45 does not mean a fight was lopsided. Every round could have been razor thin but still had the same winner. Some of you don’t seem to understand scoring at all.”

I just printed this out and dropped it out my window. The RVCA/HILO BOY Zombies read it and they all just walked into the sea. Thanks! DC/NYC

Remember, this man was selected as a judge for the event by UFC management.

Topics: MMA, Media, UFC, Zach Arnold | 27 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |

27 Responses to “Comments from UFC judge Doug Crosby who scored Edgar/Penn fight 50-45 in Abu Dhabi”

  1. 45 Huddle says:

    The judge is delusional. He is on another planet.

    He is also chosen by most of the major athletic commissions.

    I still think Edgar won. Just not 50-45.

    • Zack says:

      Funny…didn’t you say you thought BJ won on the initial thread? LOL

      ” 45 Huddle says:
      April 10, 2010 at 11:08 am

      What up B!tches!! What did I tell you!! Edgar is World Champion.

      I actually had it 3 rounds for Penn, but it was very hard to tell based on some of the camera angles which punches landed.”

      Congrats on constantly talking out your ass.

      • Fluyid says:

        Don’t forget that someone posting under the “45 Huddle” name made a big dramatic post and quit the forum this past April 1st.

        That was almost certainly an imposter. Perhaps we’re dealing with that again.

  2. kjh says:

    I’m sure Dana “Trolls Twitter Fans” White will see nothing wrong in this.

  3. Ultimo Santa says:

    This is the most pretentious, nonsensical series of brain-farts I’ve read since the Ultimate Warrior’s last blog post.

  4. David M says:

    If one were so inclined, one would say that this man is a delusional, blind, liar who took a bribe from a sheik trying to cash in on the 7-1 odds. I am far too genteel to make such a remark, but just note that if someone were to make that claim, I would not disagree.

  5. Grape Knee High says:

    Compustrike seems to line up with my own opinion; I thought Penn won 3-2, but I could possibly see Edgar 3-2, with the third round being the questionable one. Both Compustrike and FightMetric show Penn winning the first two rounds. In fact, almost universally, most PBPs had Penn winning the first two rounds.

    The problem is that Crosby was judging the fight with an inferior, obstructed view of the action: at ringside, through a steel fence.

    Judges can’t reliably assess landed strikes because of the angles and the cage. One of the few things they can reasonably make out is “octagon control”, the one criteria from which many controversial decisions seem to stem.

    Joe Rogan is a perfect study as he has a similar view as the judges. How many times have we seen him say a submission attempt was “LOCKED IN!!!!” when it is obvious to us at home it is not. For all his foibles, Rogan knows grappling. He’s not making a error as far as he knows; he just can’t see shit because of the angle and cage.

    We, at home, have an advantage. One is that we don’t have to look through fucking steel fence. Another is that we aren’t limited to a stationary viewpoint. If current TV angle is bad, the producers switch to another, better angle.

    The judges do not have this luxury. If they are stuck at a bad angle, they just have to guess at what is actually occurring, hence why I think the judge place such a premium on “controlling a fight”. It’s something they can still perceive despite the inferior vantage point.

    • dbest says:

      The judges “may” have a inferior vantage point in certain angles, but to judge all the round for Edgar is BS. The judge is a complete ass…

      • Grape Knee High says:

        Sorry, I did not mean to imply that Crosby is not an ass. He clearly is.

        Let me amend my statement above by saying despite the fact that he has a suck-ass view of the fight, only a retard would have score the first two rounds for Edgar.

  6. Shocbomb says:

    Please any thing he says I don’t want to hear all you have to do is look at his past judging record because this is not the first time Doug Crosby has a track record now of just horibble decisions, FRom Jordan Breen here’s some other Doug Crosby specials: Neer 29-28 over Diaz, Belcher 29-28 over Akiyama, Davis 29-28 over Hardy. And hears a few other horrible decisions I found Crosby WAs the one who gave Bisping every round is the MMA classic robbery Bisping vs Hamil and in a more recent robbery Crsoby scored Tim Hauge vs Chris Tuchscherer 29-28 for Tuchscherer. The bottom line is he needs to find a new Job becasue its apparent he has no idea how to score MMA !

  7. Mark says:

    I’m sure Dana will give this clown a call for the next Kimbo fight.

  8. Jeff says:

    Zach-

    When you say remember he was hired by UFC management, do you mean “that’s surprising because he’s a goof” or “So he’s not as dumb as you might think…” ?

  9. JStein says:

    The fight was incredibly close. I had initially scored the fight 3-2 for Penn. After rewatching it, I think a 3-2 Edgar score is probably the right call.

    The compustrike, as has been pointed out by another commentator, seems to indicate that rounds 1 and 2 went to Penn and 3-5 went to Edgar. I don’t, personally, think that a 5-0 score is in any way defensible.

    Also, this guy seems like both a moron and a douche. He may have judged numerous other fights, but (as Zach pointed out) he didn’t judge them very well. He’s also not a very good writer, unless the intent of the piece was to come off like a narcissistic, self-indulgent twit, in which case, he’s a literary genius.

  10. [...] now you’ve seen Mr. Crosby’s online tirades about how he judged the Edgar/Penn fight. He wrote a post online stating that he would defend his [...]

  11. Mark says:

    That was a good article, Zach.

    And you’re right, it’s pathetic that someone is lowering themselves to a common Sherdog troll. If he only posted the last few paragraphs reading

    in my considered opinion, Edgar dictated the tone of the fight, successfully implemented and executed a strategy, landed better strikes, and basically outworked Penn.

    And that is an interpretation by a ringside observer with an understanding and appreciation of MMA, who has Judged numerous (hundreds) of fights.

    I re-watched the fight in my hotel in Abu Dhabi and saw nothing that would influence me to score it any differently.

    That would be fine.

    Writing the rest of that pretentious douchebaggery? Not so fine.

    But just like the UFC won’t give referees the boot for doing a bad job (unless they say the judging system sucks) I’m sure Doug Crosby will be back on board ASAP.

    • Black Dog says:

      Mark, that was probably the only cogent part of Crosby’s missive that made any damn sense to me.

      Was Crosby drunk when he wrote that garbage? I’d hope so, even though it’s no excuse.

      He has made himself look like a pompous fool, but it seems Crosby already was one.

      Certain industries have it in contracts and bylaws that personnel, from CEO all the way down to the lowest grunt on the totem pole, do NOT post online blogs, or at least must be very careful what they say. I have worked under similar systems in my career, and I understand why those things are in place.

      Crosby, if he’s not actually violated any such standards, necessitates the need for them in MMA.

      His rant, regardless of whether or not he was impaired was downright unprofessional. Something tells me UFC will not be using him again, at least not for a long time.

  12. [...] is back from the Middle East and stirring things up over at the Underground forums. After waxing philosophical about whether to deign us with an explanation for how he called all five rounds for Frankie Edgar, [...]

  13. Shocbomb says:

    Great article Zach and you are 100% right he does owe a apology to the UFC Brass and to all the Fans. I really just can’t get over a Judge who is sapose to be a profesional and works for a goverment athletic commission is getting on a message board like a mad 15 year old kid and having a flame war with fans over a decison he made.

  14. jj says:

    Is that really Doug Crosby writing all of that? It looks more like the writings of an internet Troll. If it really is Doug, and he normally posts on the Underground, do all of his previous posts look like this?

  15. Zack says:

    jj…that’s him. If you click on his name on the UG, it’ll bring up his previous threads.

  16. edub says:

    Man, what a piece of garbage. We wanted a defense of the score; eventhough to most(including myself) it is indefensible(sp?); but what we got is a garbage rant. A fluff piece to yourself and your love of the english language.

    Someone please fire this guy.

  17. David says:

    Dana White is slipping in his promotional prowess!!

    He put Silva vs Leites, and we all knew that was a joke.. and everybody was SUPER pissed for having to sit through that snoozefest!

    When we heard Silva was to fight Maia, we couldn’t believe it. For him to play the heel, in the most AWKWARD and fabricated, during the post-event press conference, was absolutely DISGUSTING and obviously fake. The press is a bunch of pussies for not calling him out.

    Sigh..

  18. Fluyid says:

    I haven’t been to the UG in a few years, but I’ve been told that Crosby posts this caliber of crap all the time.

    A friend who knows him too told me that Crosby is a total asshole on the UG and has been for ages.

  19. JudgeIto says:

    What’s interesting is that during the week before the event, Crosby was offering on the UG his services in terms of doing a MMA judging/reffing seminar in the NYC metro area sometime in the next few weeks. Methinks he’ll be canceling this event.

    Another interesting note is that his supposed mentor is a UFO expert:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Vall%C3%A9e

  20. Shifty421 says:

    Does anyone else think that, shitty judging aside, bj kinda pussed out in this fight? He wasnt his normal self here. Punches werent crisp, no good jiu-jitsu, the fact that hes was taken down…more than once, and he laid down until he got desperate. Not to take anything away from frankie edgar, but it seemed like he was fighting a substandard Penn. The silva fight was bullshit as well, i dont think i have ever seen such a pansy hold a title belt in the ufc, i mean literally running away in the fifth. Both of the title fights in UFC 112 were substandard and a waste of my 45 bucks.

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