Comments on: The Fight Opinion Five: The Regulators and The Drug Cheats http://www.fightopinion.com/2009/12/26/the-fight-opinion-five-the-regulators-and-the-drug-cheats/ Thu, 09 Feb 2012 21:47:46 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: ajz123 http://www.fightopinion.com/2009/12/26/the-fight-opinion-five-the-regulators-and-the-drug-cheats/comment-page-1/#comment-72142 ajz123 Mon, 28 Dec 2009 05:28:22 +0000 http://www.fightopinion.com/?p=5327#comment-72142 Thank you. Thank you.

]]> By: Alan Conceicao http://www.fightopinion.com/2009/12/26/the-fight-opinion-five-the-regulators-and-the-drug-cheats/comment-page-1/#comment-72126 Alan Conceicao Mon, 28 Dec 2009 00:34:43 +0000 http://www.fightopinion.com/?p=5327#comment-72126 Rutten tested positive after his WFA fight (final bout ever) for morphine and hydrocodone. He was never put on suspension because he retired after the bout. Rutten tested positive after his WFA fight (final bout ever) for morphine and hydrocodone. He was never put on suspension because he retired after the bout.

]]> By: ajz123 http://www.fightopinion.com/2009/12/26/the-fight-opinion-five-the-regulators-and-the-drug-cheats/comment-page-1/#comment-72113 ajz123 Sun, 27 Dec 2009 22:07:50 +0000 http://www.fightopinion.com/?p=5327#comment-72113 Alan, When was Bas caught with PED's and what did he test positive for? I was not aware of him getting caught with anything. Alan,
When was Bas caught with PED’s and what did he test positive for? I was not aware of him getting caught with anything.

]]> By: theYiffer http://www.fightopinion.com/2009/12/26/the-fight-opinion-five-the-regulators-and-the-drug-cheats/comment-page-1/#comment-72092 theYiffer Sun, 27 Dec 2009 16:35:03 +0000 http://www.fightopinion.com/?p=5327#comment-72092 @Mark: Don't assume I'll be ever holding my breath for reform of athletic commissions. I love to bitch, but that's always too easy. So I made an attempt at proposing a solution, assuming (like in a perfect world) anyone cared. Those people are few and far between. Maybe lighting the commissions on fire would sound more fun... :P I agree that this is more or less a writers' issue to chew over. Writers want and desire more benevolent athletic commissions even though that will never happen. They will hold on to them and continue wishing for better no matter how many times they screw up. (Commissions are made up of bureaucrats, they do not directly care about the people they effect unless it directly benefits them financially or politically.) Unless someone dies, commissions will only do enough just to get by. I also agree with the sentiment from posters here that fans don't really care all that much. Hell, a lot of fans don't even care if fighters use illegal substances like pot. As long as they are entertained, what happens behind the scenes (unless that becomes a form of entertainment like wrestling dirt-sheets) is irrelevant to them. @Mark: Don’t assume I’ll be ever holding my breath for reform of athletic commissions. I love to bitch, but that’s always too easy. So I made an attempt at proposing a solution, assuming (like in a perfect world) anyone cared. Those people are few and far between. Maybe lighting the commissions on fire would sound more fun… :P

I agree that this is more or less a writers’ issue to chew over. Writers want and desire more benevolent athletic commissions even though that will never happen. They will hold on to them and continue wishing for better no matter how many times they screw up. (Commissions are made up of bureaucrats, they do not directly care about the people they effect unless it directly benefits them financially or politically.) Unless someone dies, commissions will only do enough just to get by. I also agree with the sentiment from posters here that fans don’t really care all that much. Hell, a lot of fans don’t even care if fighters use illegal substances like pot. As long as they are entertained, what happens behind the scenes (unless that becomes a form of entertainment like wrestling dirt-sheets) is irrelevant to them.

]]> By: Mark http://www.fightopinion.com/2009/12/26/the-fight-opinion-five-the-regulators-and-the-drug-cheats/comment-page-1/#comment-72086 Mark Sun, 27 Dec 2009 15:47:55 +0000 http://www.fightopinion.com/?p=5327#comment-72086 It's definitely a writer's issue more than a fan issue. It's an easy stance to take to get an easy article out of. "Hey, drug cheats are bad for the sport, we have to stop them." But if blood testing prevented cyclers (and what star hasn't been accused of cycling?) from fighting, fans would be 100% against strict testing. You'd be possibly stuck with nothing but guys who drink their own piss fighting each other. Of course it sucks if a fighter gets beaten by a guy who is juicing, but there's been so many steroid users who lose fights that you can't point to steroids affecting MMA results as clearly as you can in baseball. In baseball you can see countless examples where players go from mediocre to great due to steroids. In MMA it seems like more failed drug tests come from losers than winners. So it's hard to get people behind hardline stances when it really isn't hurting the purity of the sport where like the PSAs used to say "users are losers." Ken Shamrock of all people once attributed steroids being bad for MMA fighters by saying the steroids make you expend too much extra energy in a fight, and I guess he should know. It’s definitely a writer’s issue more than a fan issue. It’s an easy stance to take to get an easy article out of. “Hey, drug cheats are bad for the sport, we have to stop them.” But if blood testing prevented cyclers (and what star hasn’t been accused of cycling?) from fighting, fans would be 100% against strict testing. You’d be possibly stuck with nothing but guys who drink their own piss fighting each other.

Of course it sucks if a fighter gets beaten by a guy who is juicing, but there’s been so many steroid users who lose fights that you can’t point to steroids affecting MMA results as clearly as you can in baseball. In baseball you can see countless examples where players go from mediocre to great due to steroids. In MMA it seems like more failed drug tests come from losers than winners. So it’s hard to get people behind hardline stances when it really isn’t hurting the purity of the sport where like the PSAs used to say “users are losers.”

Ken Shamrock of all people once attributed steroids being bad for MMA fighters by saying the steroids make you expend too much extra energy in a fight, and I guess he should know.

]]> By: Alan Conceicao http://www.fightopinion.com/2009/12/26/the-fight-opinion-five-the-regulators-and-the-drug-cheats/comment-page-1/#comment-72070 Alan Conceicao Sun, 27 Dec 2009 00:54:07 +0000 http://www.fightopinion.com/?p=5327#comment-72070 The testing debate is a complex one. I think in general, fans wouldn't care if athletes are tested or not. If they are however, they clearly enjoy seeing athletes getting busted and seeing the system work. To that end, I think its funny to see MMA writers talk about how the UFC's willingness to quash any demands of more regular testing (as seen in Mayweather/Pacquiao) as a percieved positive in light of the positive tests of those caught, who range from legends like Bas Rutten and Royce Gracie to Josh Barnett and Sean Sherk. The testing debate is a complex one. I think in general, fans wouldn’t care if athletes are tested or not. If they are however, they clearly enjoy seeing athletes getting busted and seeing the system work. To that end, I think its funny to see MMA writers talk about how the UFC’s willingness to quash any demands of more regular testing (as seen in Mayweather/Pacquiao) as a percieved positive in light of the positive tests of those caught, who range from legends like Bas Rutten and Royce Gracie to Josh Barnett and Sean Sherk.

]]> By: Quote of the Week: Keith Kizer on drug testing | FightOpinion.com - Your Global Connection to the Fight Industry. http://www.fightopinion.com/2009/12/26/the-fight-opinion-five-the-regulators-and-the-drug-cheats/comment-page-1/#comment-72069 Quote of the Week: Keith Kizer on drug testing | FightOpinion.com - Your Global Connection to the Fight Industry. Sun, 27 Dec 2009 00:46:52 +0000 http://www.fightopinion.com/?p=5327#comment-72069 [...] The Fight Opinion Five: The Regulators and The Drug Cheats | [...] [...] The Fight Opinion Five: The Regulators and The Drug Cheats | [...]

]]> By: Michael Nome http://www.fightopinion.com/2009/12/26/the-fight-opinion-five-the-regulators-and-the-drug-cheats/comment-page-1/#comment-72067 Michael Nome Sat, 26 Dec 2009 23:59:41 +0000 http://www.fightopinion.com/?p=5327#comment-72067 If New Jersey's Commission hadnt recognized the sport and regulated and accepted it, no matter what Dana and others did, the sport would have never been accepted in Nevada or allowed to mature. If New Jersey’s Commission hadnt recognized the sport and regulated and accepted it, no matter what Dana and others did, the sport would have never been accepted in Nevada or allowed to mature.

]]> By: 45 Huddle http://www.fightopinion.com/2009/12/26/the-fight-opinion-five-the-regulators-and-the-drug-cheats/comment-page-1/#comment-72064 45 Huddle Sat, 26 Dec 2009 21:43:15 +0000 http://www.fightopinion.com/?p=5327#comment-72064 The problem with having such stringent drug testing and long penalties is that fans don't want it. They want enough testing so they can play dumb that their favorite is clean. And if they do test positive, they still want the athlete back within a reasonable time so they can watch him again. If they did want something more severe, then we would have already seen it in the major team sports. To me, the testing in MMA is on par with those major sports leagues and that is "good enough" for the vast majority of people. The problem with having such stringent drug testing and long penalties is that fans don’t want it. They want enough testing so they can play dumb that their favorite is clean. And if they do test positive, they still want the athlete back within a reasonable time so they can watch him again. If they did want something more severe, then we would have already seen it in the major team sports. To me, the testing in MMA is on par with those major sports leagues and that is “good enough” for the vast majority of people.

]]> By: Mark http://www.fightopinion.com/2009/12/26/the-fight-opinion-five-the-regulators-and-the-drug-cheats/comment-page-1/#comment-72059 Mark Sat, 26 Dec 2009 19:50:14 +0000 http://www.fightopinion.com/?p=5327#comment-72059 People make a big deal about the "Zuffa Myth" because it is a way to make Zuffa inseparable from MMA. Like Vince McMahon's "pro wrestling was only watched by a bunch of blood thirsty yokels in smoke filled tiny arenas before I took over the WWF" yarn (which even throws his own father under a bus) when in fact pro wrestling did huge business in a dozen territories with a family oriented crowd, what this is an attempt to do is claim total ownership of an entire sport (or fake sport in WWF's case) just because your piece of it is more popular than other pieces of it. It's like if McDonald's was taking credit for inventing the hamburger or if Sony was saying they invented the idea of color television.Yes, it doesn't hurt anything outright, but the intentions don't sit well with people who knew of MMA before the Jazzerciser got involved and/or don't feel the need to worship him as a bald deity. . @Yiffer: nobody is going to be motivated to push for reform of Athletic Commissions. They don't push for reform on issues that actually affect their lives, so why would they finally get off their butts to rally for something as unimportant to the world as sports? And even if they did, Athletic Commissions are like Liquor Licensing boards and zoning commissions that are a job people in power give to supporters as a thank you. Those are boats that cannot be rocked no matter how many times you call or petition. I'll bet if you looked deep enough everybody on AC's has been a campaigner or fund raiser or did some kind of favor for a high ranking politician to get the job (Definitely in Nevada.) That won't change because you get 50 people to call to say they're pissed about Forrest's broken foot. People make a big deal about the “Zuffa Myth” because it is a way to make Zuffa inseparable from MMA. Like Vince McMahon’s “pro wrestling was only watched by a bunch of blood thirsty yokels in smoke filled tiny arenas before I took over the WWF” yarn (which even throws his own father under a bus) when in fact pro wrestling did huge business in a dozen territories with a family oriented crowd, what this is an attempt to do is claim total ownership of an entire sport (or fake sport in WWF’s case) just because your piece of it is more popular than other pieces of it. It’s like if McDonald’s was taking credit for inventing the hamburger or if Sony was saying they invented the idea of color television.Yes, it doesn’t hurt anything outright, but the intentions don’t sit well with people who knew of MMA before the Jazzerciser got involved and/or don’t feel the need to worship him as a bald deity. .

@Yiffer: nobody is going to be motivated to push for reform of Athletic Commissions. They don’t push for reform on issues that actually affect their lives, so why would they finally get off their butts to rally for something as unimportant to the world as sports? And even if they did, Athletic Commissions are like Liquor Licensing boards and zoning commissions that are a job people in power give to supporters as a thank you. Those are boats that cannot be rocked no matter how many times you call or petition. I’ll bet if you looked deep enough everybody on AC’s has been a campaigner or fund raiser or did some kind of favor for a high ranking politician to get the job (Definitely in Nevada.) That won’t change because you get 50 people to call to say they’re pissed about Forrest’s broken foot.

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