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Debating the future of the WEC
By Zach Arnold | October 5, 2009
So, this Saturday in San Antonio, Texas, the promotion has a show on Versus featuring Donald Cerrone vs. Benson Henderson. This was the show that got bumped from Youngstown, Ohio in early September amidst Versus and DirecTV having their major squabble (which still is lingering). Truth be told, very few people care about Saturday’s WEC event — which prompted Jake Rossen to ask if the WEC still matters or not.
What we know is that UFC had the option of keeping the league around for another year or perhaps doing a merger. In a recent interview on RawVegas.tv, Faber said that he was about to sign a new deal with Zuffa to fight as WEC’s ace in 2010. He also mentioned that WEC would hit PPV next year and that this seemingly will be the core of the promotion’s financial model in ’10.
So, will the WEC be successful on PPV? What would you consider a successful buyrate number for the promotion on PPV? Will the promotion end up merging with UFC?
Topics: Media, MMA, WEC, Zach Arnold | 28 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
I think going PPV is a very risky move for the WEC. We don’t know the details of their current TV deal, but let’s remember a few things:
Small guys don’t draw on PPV as well as bigger guys, and if Fedor can’t draw do serious PPV numbers, Faber definitely won’t.
And what if Faber and Torres lose AGAIN? What happens to their PPV potential (which is small already) then?
FW champ Mike Brown is a damn good fighter but he’s just not charismatic.
The only WEC fight that ever made sense on PPV would have been Faber vs. Torres when they both held their belts. It could have been what Penn vs. St. Pierre 2 should have been. But that’s out the window now.
Then there’s the issue of people being used to getting the WEC for free. After years of watching the WEC without paying, people are going to balk at paying big money to watch the little guys go at it.
UK UFC cards do something like 300K buys – and that’s with big names like Rich Franklin, BJ Penn, Dan Henderson, etc. Can the WEC cards do even half that with much lesser-known fighters? I don’t think so.
I think the WEC would struggle to get 150K buys, and that would be at a much lower price than UFC PPVs. They’d be able to charge $30 at the most.
Sorry for the rambling! It’s early…
No one watches free WEC shows. A WEC PPV would get into like, negative buyrates territory, especially after losing the DirecTV sets.
WEC talking about running monthly shows and PPVs is one of those promotional hype things that is so ridiculously untrue and far from reality that its actually quite funny. I’m sure there’s a lot more people willing to digest that and regurgitate it on *insert forum here* than they were when it was the IFL, for instance, making wild claims about their future.
Time to increase the UFC to 8 weight classes, put on a few more shows per year, and turn the WEC into a feeder system. Doesn’t even have to have running champions. Just good fights.
WEC on PPV won’t work. The UFC has already over saturated the market with 12 Pay Per views a year. So why would soemone dish out more money for a promotion that’s basically a minor leauge UFC?
Could the UFC just be using the prospect of PPV revenue to get Faber and Torres signed to long-term deals?
I love the WEC and would absolutely order the PPVs, but I’m in the hardcore MMA fan minority. WEC shows probably wouldn’t sell much better than Affliction did. Like Alan said, if you can’t get that many people to watch for free why do you think more than 100,000 people would pay $30-$40 to see it? (And I would hope they’d charge cheaper than UFC shows.)
I’ll agree with 45Huddle: merge ’em.
I’m interested in seeing more WEC fights in a single event than the four or so that normally air live on Versus.
I don’t think I would regularly pay $45 to do it…I’d buy the first one and see how it turned out.
With only three weight divisions, how do you successfully pull off a PPV?
That’s the real problem with the upcoming event, you have a fake title in a fake division up for grabs, and your next largest fight on the card is also at lightweight. Neither of WEC’s marquee divisions are on tap.
I can’t imagine WEC even drawing what Affliction did on PPV. Its shows are fun to watch usually. But I never find myself saying I need to see any of those guys fight.
My assumption is that Zuffa saying WEC may go to ppv isn’t a message for the fans. Rather it is a threat to Versus that “we’ll put all our good fights on ppv and leave you with crap”. They’re probably Loki g for a way out if Versus and onto Spike or another partner with those weight classes.
I know I am in the minority on this, but I’d rather they leave the UFC alone. It is fine just the way it is. 5 divisions is enough.
I kind of agree with you, Fight Opinion Reader. But if they were to treat 145 and 135 the way they treated 155 back in 2003-2005 I’d be fine with it.
What they used to do back then was put one fight from 155 on per event, if that. It slowly built up the guys in the division and led to some interesting fights. I’d rather see Mark Brown vs Urijah Faber than Akiyama vs Belcher as the first fight or second fight on a card. But I don’t want to watch a bunch of jockeys fighting at 125 and below.
I think 135 and 145 can be good filler division. Title fights on Spike and good scraps early on PPVs.
If the UFC gets a network deal for 4 events a year, it allows the UFC to then take bigger title fights like Lesnar vs. Carwin and keep them on PPV. And then take a title fight like GSP vs. Swick and put it on NBC. Right now they don’t have enough title fights to do both.
And a WEC PPV would be a complete and total wreck. The buyrates would be horrible. However, the WEC has to do at least one or two. Why?
1) To lure guys like Faber back.
2) To prove to the little guys they aren’t a draw without the UFC name. It’s hard to say no without trying it. Losing money on one went just to put things in perspective for the little guys would actually be a good business decision in the long run.
If they do a PPV, Faber vs. Torres will be the co-main event. It is still a good fight to see and the best one they can put on for PPV.
I don’t know about all that. What would be a disappointing number? Expectations are going to be so low I don’t think it’s possible for anything to be considered an earth-shattering disaster. Realistically it would get 50,000-100,000 buys even if it’s poorly advertised. And it’s not like the show is going to be expensive to run.
Plus Zuffa’s collective ego is so big they’re not going to create an intentional failure even for the WEC. They’ve got plenty of “You’re nothing without us!” material, they don’t need to create a disaster to get more.
I think the PPV market is oversaturated with wrestling, boxing and UFC. I would merge WEC into UFC and have weekly fights like ESPN2’s Friday Night Fights
I don’t know how representative I am of the market, but I wouldn’t pay to see Faber vs Torres. I’d watch it online for free. If it were on Versus on Saturday or Sunday Night I’m not 100% sure I’d watch it over whatever football game was on. Depends on the game.
Well, I can’t even stay awake through an entire NFL or College football game, so that’s one of us.
Zuffa would have to be stupid to really think the WEC would amount to anything at this point. Who knows, perhaps they really are blind to it. Or perhaps they just act like they think it will get bigger to keep the act going in the media. Hard to tell.
Either way, Urijah Faber signing a 6 fight deal with the WEC is the biggest news in the last 30 days. This guy isn’t a Tito Ortiz in terms of drawing power, but he definitely is a stronger secondary name. If Strikeforce signed him, that would have been a huge signing.
They might as well merge the WEC with the UFC or something. It’s a good way to solve the UFC’s problems of not having headliner fights (to an extent) and people might just buy the PPV simply because of the UFC name and brand.
At least merging gives more opportunity for exposure and success to the WEC stars, and maybe better contracts.
Faber, Brown and Torres could be possible headlining stars with the UFC hype machine behind them. Same with guys like Aldo and maybe the dude with the Legoman haircut.
The UFC brand is what matters, and I think this more has to do with the guys in WEC fighting for their jobs than what Zuffa wants. I think Zuffa is probably giving them a chance to see if the company can do some good, and if not, well, you know.
WEC also has a lot of hispanic fighters, which could easily target that demographic the UFC has a hard time getting a firm hold on.
“Time to increase the UFC to 8 weight classes, put on a few more shows per year, and turn the WEC into a feeder system.”
No network wants to be the home of the “feeder” show to the big show on a rival network.
“Could the UFC just be using the prospect of PPV revenue to get Faber and Torres signed to long-term deals?”
Very interesting point.
“I’d rather see Mark Brown vs Urijah Faber”
Ouch, the champ in their premier division isn’t a house hold name yet, eh?
No network wants to be the home of the “feeder” show to the big show on a rival network.
This is the biggest issue with the WEC. Without the champs at 135/145, its a totally irrelevant organization featuring subpar talent. As it is, they more or less are a minor league show. Pushing them from AAA to single A will not make them any more credible an entity. It will not fix the crappy ratings, sell PPVs, sell tickets in new markets (like Youngstown), and so on. Give us another minor league and its another show I can skip.
Dude, Mark Brown is the greatest Bantamweight Champion of all time!!! WEC 4 Life!!!
I was a little bored and decided to check out Strikeforce’s ticket sales through Ticketmaster:
The $35 & $75 tickets don’t even have 4 seats in a row available. The rest, which is includes $50, $100, $150, $300, & $500 all have blocks of 10+ tickets available. Some as much as 20+. 3rd row seats are still available on the floor…..
And where the heck is the final card? We are 1 month and 2 days away and both Showtime & Strikeforce’s websites only have Fedor/Rogers up there as a fight. We do know that Shields/Mayham is also a fight, and Mousasi is fighting somebody, but nobody worthwhile is available. But they need to get that information out there to the casual fans….
This has to be one of the worst “big fights” in terms of promotions that I can recall in a long time. And that is saying something. Will the gate even break $750,000 for Fedor? If they drew 8,000 paid, they would have to average a $94 ticket in order to even get to $750,000. And that doesn’t even cover Fedor’s known payout. And it’s not like they get all that money, and Showtime doesn’t pay out that much…. Not to mention without Carano, the ratings have the potential to be really bad….
You never know…. Because this stuff is sometimes hard to predict…. But I sense a train wreck happening here….
[…] whatever reason, a handful of posts popped up today discussing the future of the WEC. It seems like the majority of fans think […]
Why would anyone say little guys can’t draw? Have you guys never heard of Oscar De La Hoya or Floyd Mayweather? I know it’s a different sport, but still, people are willing to pay money to see compelling and great fighters, fight. BJ Penn is a big draw, so is GSP; I don’t see why a guy like Faber couldn’t as well. I think if he were in the UFC instead of WEC, and had gotten the kind of hype that he got in the WEC, but on a UFC level, he would be a major draw.
I like the idea of the UFC and WEC being kept separate, but I just don’t see that happening in the near future.
I’ve far much more enjoyed what WEC has put out more than the UFC has recently, but the UFC is all about the bigger weight classes and big stars, and smaller relatively unknown fighters just doesn’t cut it for the average MMA fan.
I already find it sad that Faber is being considered for yet another title shot after 1 or 2 fights. Seriously, he needs to be kept out of the title hunt for some time. Torres and Faber were their aces and with neither of them holding belts, they appear to be doomed. I just don’t see the WEC really getting behind any of their new champions.
I’ll have to agree with the majority on this one, WEC wouldn’t have a prayer on PPV. Your average fan has very little idea as to what WEC is. To hype the show here in San Antonio, they promoted it as “the UFC presents WEC…” Without making any connections to the UFC, this would be another small-time show. On the radio this morning (99.5 KISS), the morning show basically crapped on the WEC and referred to (I believe it was) Reed Harris as the UFO of WEC. I’ve yet to see any commercials on Spike or local TV. Outside of Versus, I never see any hype about any other WEC events. So unless Zuffa is will to put some promotional muscle behind the WEC, it will sadly be rolled into the UFC if not dissolved all together.
You are good for a laugh as always 45 Huddle.
“Mark Brown”
I’ve heard VERY good things in terms of ticket sales for the Nov 7th CBS show. 7-8K tickets have already been sold and there is still a month left for the event. Not bad.
I’ve already cut my UFC PPVs from every month to 1 in 3 or 4. WEC does not need PPV and it does not need to merge,
It needs a new network.
WEC is an opportunity to get the average sport/fisticuffs fan into the sport, it just needs better exposure.
Damacio Page, Dominick Cruz, Joseph Benavidez, Fabiano, Torres, Scott Jorgensen, Aldo…are all exciting fighters that could grow this sport.
Draining the current fan base of more money or burying them on unseen UFC preliminary cards doesnt help anyone.
Get off of Versus and onto a real network.
I keep on seeing that Strikeforce sold 8,000 tickets. Where is this information coming from? I haven’t seen the source.
From what tickets are available on Ticketmaster, it seems unlikely. Unless they had the vast majority of the arena at $35 tickets, in which case they didn’t make any money off the gate, which is still bad….