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Fedor press conference today in Anaheim
By Zach Arnold | July 29, 2009
It’s 6:45 AM in Los Angeles… and M-1 just sent out a notice for the media to attend the press conference in Anaheim that will take place in 6 hours. So in a timespan of six hours, they are going to have the media sign up for credentials either for live attendance or for a conference call on the phone. I know…
At the hastily-arranged press conference will be Fedor, Vadim Finkelchtein, and Gary “Jerry” Millen. Here’s how the press conference is being described as:
Former PRIDE heavyweight champion Fedor Emelianenko will address the media for the first time since Affliction’s decision last week to cancel “Trilogy.” Fedor will discuss his reaction to the news while also talking about his potential future options. Additionally, the press conference will also include a Q&A session with reporters.
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Anyone have the number? I figure I can at least provide more commentary than the guy who asked BJ Penn about his gay porn career for the UFC 101 call.
And by “commentary”, I mean jokes and jokes and jokes. Maybe “Ralf the Dog” as a pseudonym?
With Millen there it can only mean this (to me anyways):
1. There was no UFC negotiations or very little progress.
2. Dana called Millen a “fucking clown” during negotiations.
3. This is a bad attempt to get publicity and hype for Fedor among the mainstream media.
YES!!!!
The announcement we have all been waiting for!!!!!
“Fighting Fedor-The Series” is finally gonna happen!!!
Which channel will it be on?
If this is about that stupid fighing fedor show, and millen was the producer for it, I’m done with Fedor.
I’m hoping he gets his management in line and just signs with UFC already. If the New England Patriots left the NFL and started a league where all they played were college teams, no one would regard them as the best football team anymore. Fedor should be no different.
I highly doubt it will be for the TV show, but M1 are saying it’s nothing to do with the UFC.
I just hope it’s something substantial.
Another thing, if Fedor-Barnett was to come about on NYE (or thereabouts),would this mean Fedor will fight for SENGOKU?
What do they expect to accomplish with this conference? It’s not as if the UFC (or Strikeforce) are going to feel any more pressured to sign him. If all they’re planning to do is have Fedor answer questions in his typically elusive way, what’s the point? I’d imagine they’ll try to plug the upcoming M-1 show even though Fedor won’t be in it.
Isn’t running a smooth PR operation in the U.S. the whole point of hiring someone like Jerry Millen? A kid out of college could do a better job at handling press releases and conferences.
Don’t say that I have never contributed anything to this site:
Conference Date: July 29, 2009
Participant Dial-in Numbers:
U.S. Toll Free: 888-299-4099
Canadian Toll Free: 866-682-1172
International Toll: 302-709-8337
Verbal Passcode (to be given to the operator): VC38548
Another blow to the Heavyweight Division outside the UFC….
Jeff Monson was required to surrender his passport do to his spraypainting incident.
So the list is:
1. Jeff Monson - No overseas fights.
2. Josh Barnett - Highly unlikely to fight in the states anytime soon.
3. Alexander Emelianenko - Hep B will keep him from fighting in the US.
4. Gilbert Yvel - History of illegal tactics make him unlikely to compete in the UFC or Strikeforce.
5. Tim Sylvia - Has horrible reputation after coming in overweight and being KO’d by Ray Mercer.
6. Andrei Arlovski - Glass jaw completely devalued him.
7. Sergei Kharitonov - Overweight in his last fight, looks to be disinterested in proper training.
Not looking good. A lot of baggage for many of these fighters….
I think it’ll be less of a press conference and more of a glorified interview session… actually, I’m going to go out on a limb here and predict this will be a non-event… but that’s sort of like predicting there’ll be lesbians at Lilith Fair… it’s pretty obvious.
Can we Rick roll the press conference? Actually forget that, Rick Roll is dead.
Maybe play Zack Ryder’s theme and keep yelling “WOO WOO WOO YOU KNOW IT.” into the phone.
…Or play the sound file of Bas Rutten calling Millen “the asshole.”
Nah I’m just kidding I won’t do that.
Fluyid, you rock hardcore. I will be calling in!
45 Huddle, I wish you were wrong…but you\’re not. the heavyweight scene outside the UFC has all but dried out at this point.
Even if there is a huge talent outside the UFC, people like 45 (no offense, but you do this all the time) will discredit them because they\’re not facing \”The best in the world\” in Zuffaland.
Hell, Fedor is undefeated against EVERYONE, and people still pull that talking point out when discussing him and his legacy.
So unless Strikeforce makes some REALLY great business decisions, and somehow builds a deep talent pool in multiple divisions, no one else will even come close to competing.
I like how they\’re showcasing Women\’s MMA because UFC won\’t - that\’s an awesome start - but they need more.
Zuffa was willing to put women’s MMA under the WEC banner. But only if they got Carano.
I really question the staying power of women’s MMA. I have a gut feeling that their will be a drop in interest once Carano/Cyborg takes place. Female athletes are a hard sell.
Dammit…wasn’t let into the call.
Oh well.
“Zuffa was willing to put women’s MMA under the WEC banner. But only if they got Carano.”
Don’t blame them. She’s by far the face of Women’s MMA. It’s Carano, and then everyone else. Even if Cyborg beats her that won’t change (unless Cyborg literally changes her face…then maybe).
“Female athletes are a hard sell.”
True, but there were some very exciting fights with women in Bodog - it’s something I’d like to see more of (whether it stays relevant with the masses or not).
Does anyone have any updates on what is being said at this “press conference”?
Well, now we’ll find out whether the UFC’s threats against non-UFC fighters (ie, that the UFC will never sign them if they accept EA Sports’ money to appear in EA Sports’ MMA video game) apply to Fedor as well. As previously rumored, and as now confirmed by AOL Fanhouse, Fedor is one of the fighters who signed to appear in EA’s MMA game.
The heavyweight division was never really strong anywhere except for 2 years in PRIDE and this year in the UFC. That could quickly change if Brock gets defeated and a few of the new heavyweights don’t pan out. You’ve got a rundown Nogueira, Randy who wants to go back to 205, Kongo who can never get it going, Herring who isn’t convincing anymore, Mir whose training interest is always questionable. And a bunch of rookies who aren’t proven yet so they might not be all they’re cracked up to be for all we know. What happens if 2 or 3 of those rookies are the 2009 Brandon Vera’s? The division is back to boring again.
The heavyweight division will never be as consistently strong as Welterweight and Light Heavyweight, no matter what promotion.
I have said from the start that the UFC is just posturing about their video game ban. LOL @ the idea that Dana would turn down Fedor because he is going to be in a competing videogame. If Dana did do that, he would be the biggest idiot in the history of fight promoting.
Ha ha, the first thing they say is Fedor will be on the cover of the EA Sports game. Well, that answers the UFC question.
I feel like M-1 is handling this all wrong. Up until now they’ve done a decent job screwing with both the UFC and the fans while squeezing money out of the fanbase and growing M-1.
The tide really feels like its about to shift. I remember the Couture/UFC dispute, the majority of fans were on Randy’s side at the start. A year later most fans were against him, and it would have gotten worse had Randy and the UFC failed to reach an agreement.
The tide feels like it is shifting against Fedor and M-1 now. If he takes one more contract outside the UFC, especially if it involves matchups with sub-top-10 caliber fighters, the fanbase is going to shift against M-1 completely. The money will dry up, M-1 will have a permanent black eye, and attempts at using Fedor to promote M-1 will ultimately backfire.
Michaelthebox is correct. I have seen a lot of comments like this lately: “I’ve been a huge Fedor supporter, but if he doesn’t sign with the UFC now, I’m done.”
Mark, relax about the UFC HW division. They’ve basically doubled the size and quality of the division in a year and a half. That isn’t a fluke, its because the quality of talent is simply so much better than it ever has been in the past. With the growth of the UFC, the HW talent will continue to improve, even if Velasquez, Carwin, and Dos Santos all implode.
Just this year, they’ve signed Mike Russow, Todd Duffee, Chris Tuscherer, Rothwell, Gormley, Tim Hague, Stefan Struve, as well as some quality talent on TUF in Schaub, Schoonover, and Wren.
Here is a review of what happened on the conference call according to multiple sources:
1. Fedor made no announcement.
2. Vadim avoided a lot of questions.
3. Vadim tried to promote M-1 a bunch of times.
What are you talking about, the majority of people were never in Fedor/M-1’s favor, certainly not as much as they were in Randy’s. Randy is one of the most beloved fighters in MMA history, Fedor is a guy who has far more people salivating for him to lose so they can immediately hop on their computers and joyously type “SEE! HE WAS NEVER THAT GOOD, I TOLD YOU!”
As soon as PRIDE closed and Fedor was cold on signing with the UFC, immediately he was called a coward and fraud for not proving he’s really #1 by fighting in the UFC. Fedor has more bashing him online than anybody other than Dana White and Tito.
Michaelinthebox, we’ve had the conversation at least once before. I take a wait and see approach with an eye towards past history. You’re clearly an optimist. To continue the debate is pointless since neither of us will waver.
I don’t recall our previous conversation, Mark. Anyway, I don’t deny that Fedor has gotten plenty of ire by UFC fanboys in the past. But he’s also gotten tons of support. That support appears to be dwindling. Just look on Sherdog, one of the prior bastions of Fedor nuthuggers. M-1 is getting crushed.
I haven’t yet decided what I really think about Fedor, but I was sure a while back that Vadim and M-1 were leeches. That seems to be the theme that is taking over in the blogosphere. Just do a cursory glance in the message boards. You’d have to be blind not to see it.
Of course, all this goes by the wayside should Fedor sign with the UFC, just as it did when Randy re-signed.
The tide has definitly turned big time. The UG, Sherdog, & Bloody Elbow are all bashing Fedor and M-1 right now. And almost nobody is defending Fedor, and absolutely nobody is defending Vadim. Even two weeks ago, there were many vocal supporters of Fedor on all of these websites. Not anymore.
Vadim played this one very stupid. The press conference just hurt him with the very hardcore fans who made up Fedor’s core audience. A manager is suppose to do the best he can for a fighter, not knock him down a peg. Just shows where Vadim’s real interests are….
One last point…. Even Josh Gross…. Fedor Emelianenko’s biggest fan (for a journalist)…. Is starting to turn in his opinion as well. He use to be all about co-promotion and the fighters. And his question on the conference call was basically: “GSP & Anderson Silva can sign the UFC contract, why can’t you?”
Fedor is losing credibility by the second. He might still sign with the UFC (which would restore it)… But if he doesn’t… His drawing power in the states will fall below 50,000 PPV Buys if not more.
the only people jumping on Fedor and “turning on him” are the noobs over at BE and Sherdog that were never really fans in the first place. They just couldn’t find an argument to use against him. Alot of those same people are the ones claiming that Fedor has to go beat Lesnar with his 4-1 record to truly be #1 LOL.
BTW 45 Huddle. What did I tell you about your boyfriend MMALogic? He’s a call-center champion and you’re the type of sucker whom he seeks for to whisper quietly into your ear to spread his message.
There is a difference between turning on Fedor and being upset with him for his poor choice in friends and business partners. These deals aren’t happening almost solely because of Vadim.
Even the long term fans from The Underground are turning on him. It’s more then just the newer fighters. I’m talking about pre-TUF fans. Very simply, people use to blame Dana White for not signing Fedor and expecting him to bend over too much. That idea is completely gone now. Some people still think White must be flexible, but not bend over…. And definitely not hurt his business for the “Crazy Russians”….
As for mmalogic…. He has a history credibility. The story still has to unfold. And he is not the only source… Just one of many…. Just like Golden Boy is on The UG… Who Josh Gross is from SI…. Or Dave Meltzer is… Some guys have shown a history of credibility, some have not. But none are 100% perfect with what they have said…. If mmalogic, just like anybody else, continues to show they are wrong more often then not, then they lose that credibility.
[...] If you read Zach Arnold’s FightOpinion site, you know 45 Huddle. If you know 45, you also know he can be a bit hard-headed and that your regular commenters usually don’t agree with him, but he makes an incredibly valid point here: [...]
well it would seem that M-1 still has a hella good grip on Fedor’s nuts. they are still pushing the co-promotion angle. lame!
skwirrl if you think Fedor can continue to avoid fighting in the UFC and namely fighting Brock Lesnar and remain the #1 Heavyweight in the World you are on drugs.
Public perception now is that these are clearly the top two guys. Brock will continue to fight in the biggest promotion there is, continue to get exposure and likely will beat most every opponent they throw his way because the guy is a physical phenom and a beast.
Unless his emotions get the best of him and he gets caught in some Mir-like situation, Brock should be able to roll everyone in the UFC Heavyweight Division. And when he gets that record to 10-1? 15-1? 20-1? When will you give him the credit he deserves?
Fedor has nobody left to fight that will help him retain his Top Heavyweight Status. You don’t get to keep such a ranking fighting chumps and unless he goes to Japan to fight Roider (Barnett), or fights far lower ranked guys like Overeem, Rogers or Lashley, UFC will be the only place for him to fight someone of the caliber for him to deserve such a ranking.
UFC is in control here. They have the fanbase, the visibility, the money and most of all the fighters. Fedor has a bunch the cover of an EA Sports MMA Game. :Yawn:
Rp
Fedor is one of the investors in M-1, so yeah. Plus Vadim, his manager is the owner.
I don’t even believe he will be on the cover. At least not alone. Randy Couture will be the center piece of the EA marketing campaign. Nothing else makes sense.
Robert Poole - Yes Fedor must go to the UFC to fight elite fighters like Frank Mir who smashed Brandon Vera… Wait… OH he LOST to Brandon Vera… That’s right… Actually he got demolished by the hype machine Vera.
Outside ZUFFA:
top tier HW’s: Overeem, Barnett (on a cocktail of anything he can get his hands on with the fight taking place in Thailand), Rogers, Werdum, Bigfoot
everybody else: Xande or Roger Gracie, Lashley, Kharitonov, Monson, Arona, Mo Lawal, AA rematch, Mousasi (though Mousasi would never take that fight), Buentello, Soccerjew, Yvel, Schilt, Dave Herman…
ZUFFA: top tier HW’s: Lesnar, Carwin
2nd tier: Dos Santos (he might be tier 1), Cain, Randy, Kongo, Crocop rematch, Gonzaga
Everybody else: Nog (he’s shot), Mir (was never anything to begin with), McCully, Hardonk, Rothwell and all the elite LHW’s in the UFC
Its really even with the best HW competition STILL outside the UFC.
I still think (and know) that Fedor is the number one heavyweight and the number one P4P fighter out there, but to say that I am disappointed with him is an understatement. He has upset me, and he is now the Last Emperor in a isolated, empty kingdom devoid of life.
Fedor, until he has signed with the UFC, has become a non-factor. Will I watch him fight whoever? Yes. But he will lose what it is he had with me.
I actually had a pseudonym and everything worked out and a password sent to me. Too bad I ended up having to do work instead of taking a break.
Did anyone think that something substantative was gonna go down on this call? Seriously. Guess what: There probably won’t be very much substantative that you don’t already know for the Friday call either. People are taking this posturing dead seriously and its hilarious.
Fedor fans don’t seem to realize that Fedor’s claim as the best HW in MMA history is not ironclad for all time. Yes, his accomplishments are better than anyone’s *right now*, but it won’t be long until the UFC has the best stable of HW fighters we’ve ever seen in one promotion (if they don’t already) and eventually there will be a dominant champion, like GSP or A. Silva, and he’s going to have a resume that looks better than Fedor’s (more big wins against top fighters).
Sure, Brock is only 4-1 with two wins against top 5 opponents, but if he can win his next several fights against top 5 and top 10 talent (which looks very possible), he’ll have more top wins than Fedor. It doesn’t even have to be Brock. As long as someone comes into the UFC and goes on a GSP-esque reign of terror in the HW division, Fedor will be known forever as a “could’ve been”.
Vadim is doing his fighter a terrible disservice by not allowing Fedor to cement his legacy in the UFC. You have to look at the big picture. Nog x3, AA, Sylvia and CC will not keep you at the top forever.
Alan, you are commical. This is posturing? This is posturing:
1. Demanding more money
2. Demanding a guaranteed number of fights.
3. Demanding Fedor keeps his likeness without the UFC.
These are examples of posturing. All Vadim did was weaken the public opinion of Fedor. He also tried to promote his own interests with M-1, which actually hurts his credibility.
If you really think that was posturing, then thanks for making me laugh today!!
IceMuncher,
For better or worse, this is what some people will say about Fedor historically if he doesn’t go into the UFC.
1. He didn’t perform on the biggest stage when the level of talent increased.
2. He never competed against a lot of the division at their peak. He never fought Arlovski or Sylvia when they were champions and at the top. He never fought Cro Cop after he won the Grand Prix and was the #1 contender. He never fought Lesnar when he was at top the UFC.
3. He might have been undefeated for years, but there were long gaps between competitive fights.
4. He never beat the big wrestlers of today like Lesnar, Carwin, Cain, and whoever appears on the scene within the next few years.
And then people will look at the career of a guy like Georges St. Pierre by comparison and say he beat basically everybody in his division. Beat them when they were all at their peak, and avenged every loss so convincingly that he will go down as one if not the best Welterweight ever….
The people who write history are the one’s who come out on top at the end. And that is the UFC…. That’s the reality of the situation.
45 Huddle,
You are way off line bud. Way off line.
I could list the reasons, but I’d rather not.
Instead, I’d just like for you to realize that you are way off line.
http://mmapayout.com/2009/07/ea-mma-fedor-typo-or-slip-of-the-tongue/
The Fedorfan turtling here is pretty shocking. There’s nothing to be defensive about. He’s never been signed with the UFC, and based on the fact that this press conference even took place, I’d say there’s very little chance of him signing for UFC now.
Shocker.
Its pathetic that an organization and more specifically one vulgar promoter is 100x more popular then the best athlete in this sports history.
Why don’t we wait and see who Fedor fights next before we crucify him?
I want to see him fight Brock, but outside of that fight the UFC heavyweight roster is just as impressive/unimpressive as the one that is not under ZUFFA contract.
Also, the co-promotion angle is just a bargaining chip for M-1/Fedor. If they can’t secure another multi-million dollar deal from Strikeforce/Dream (doubtful) then they will go to the UFC who can offer the best $ by far.
People are overreacting, they are still negotiating. This sort thing is normal in boxing.
LOLOLOL 45. Dude, no shit the Fedor thing was posturing. I’m the one talking about how I wanted to prank it and hopefully break some of the seriousness up. All you had to do was claim to be from a media outlet and you could have asked Fedor any question you want: Why does Fedor hate black people? Is a sticking point the need for M-1’s continued indentured servitude of Fedor and his kids? If Jerry Millen got kicked by Bas Rutten, would he think it might hurt?
Interesting to hear that Fedor and his management didn’t have an issue with the champions clause, marketing agreement or sambo tournaments on todays conference call. Could it be that the UFC caved in to those demands?
Cro Cop after the OWGP? You mean the guy who sucked in the UFC? Beating him in 2007 would have been more important than beating him in 2005 when he was at his career peak? Huh?
Even if your theory about Fedor being destroyed by Lesnar or Carwin is correct, it’s not like Fedor is going to be forgotten or shit on by people the same way the late-90s generation of HWs like Kerr/Severn/Coleman/Rodriguez are. He did a great run during what will probably go down as the biggest years in Japanese MMA, beating a impressive list of fighters, and will probably only have his “longest unbeaten stretch” topped by Machida.
I don’t understand the disrespect some MMA fans have about “old school” fighters, which we’re seeing spring on the PRIDE roster from simply 3 YEARS AGO. Babe Ruth played generations and generation ago and already had his record broken twice. But he’s still held in a high esteem by baseball fans. MMA fans can’t wait to write you off for dead and shit on your legacy. 2006 to them might as well be 1906.
I see no reason to argue over this. A bunch of people that have emotional stake in wanting to see the best fighters all fight in the UFC exclusively are upset, and they are making lots of noise right now that its particularly convenient for them. Would I like it to happen? Sure. would it best for the sport at this stage? Probably. But I really don’t care about how Fedor is being screwed when the same people saying he is are the same ones who said that he was imminently about to sign. I don’t believe them anymore than I believe Vadim.
For the record, I do think Fedor will end up signing with the UFC. The EliteXC, Affliction, Bodog, and IFL’s of the world are not around anymore. Strikeforce will not co-promote events with them, Showtime would likely not allow it. And why sign a $500,000 per fight contract with Strikeforce when you can sign a $2 Million one with the UFC (both no co-promoting). Sengoku is not a fit. Which just leaves DREAM… And they aren’t even sure if they will be on TBS next year. I can’t see them being able to offer Fedor much money. The only logical choice is the UFC.
Alan,
If you see no reason to discuss this, then just leave the conversation. There is no point for you to be posting.
Mark,
Babe Ruth played in the same league that is around now. Major difference. And I was just saying how people will bring him up in the future if he doesn’t sign with the UFC….
Here’s what UFC offered to Fedor ccording to Carmichael Dave:
By: Carmichael Dave
CBS Radio MMA Host
Twitter.com/Carmichaeldave
So we all know the deal with M-1 and what they are saying about co-promotion. I’m not here to say who’s right and wrong in this deal, but I can tell you some of the specifics that were offered to Fedor…..
- The UFC offered Fedor a 6 fight, 30 million dollar contract. That’s 5 mil a fight
- The UFC offered Fedor an immediate title shot
- Lesnar/Fedor would be the biggest PPV in MMA history (we assume), and the UFC offered M-1 Global a cut of the PPV on top of Fedor’s purse.
- Fedor was free to wear as many M-1 logoed items as he wished.
- The UFC also relented on allowing Fedor to compete in combat sambo.
Apparently, for good or bad, M-1 refuses to sign a deal unless the UFC agrees to co-promote.
Gonna be difficult for M1 to make that kind of money outside the UFC.
I just read that on The UG… If Fedor does not sign it, he is truly ducking top competition.
UFC is smart to offer 6 fights. They got to figure they can find somebody to beat him within 6 fights and get the linear title off of him and then be done with his BS.
They are paying way above and beyond market value for him, just to please the fans.
5 million per fight…and he turned it down.
Wow…
No way anybody comes even close to matching that offer.
Someone please explain the reasoning behind M1 Global turning down this offer. I can’t seem to fathom their logic.
“They are paying way above and beyond market value for him, just to please the fans.”
JUST to please the fans? As opposed to what - trying to keep popular fighters out of the UFC to intentionally piss off their core audience?
Vince McMahon tried that strategy in the WWE and look how well it turned out for him.
Dana White is a brash, arrogant jack@ss, but he’s better able to set his ego aside for the same of business, and deals with Ortiz, CroCop, Fedor, and others for the good of the company.
If the UFC offer for Fedor is even half-true, it’s absolutely insane for M-1/Fedor to turn it down. His legacy is cemented, but Fedor’s career is essentially over at this point if he can’t come to terms.
Not everything should be taken at face value. It seemed clear to me (they weren’t even subtle about it) that today’s press conference was textbook negotiating. Fedor’s management is presenting one singular issue (co-promotion) as their biggest bargaining chip by far, so that it will seem as though they’re conceding if they give up that one big bargaining chip in exchange for other important things that they want (ie, not being tied into a lifetime contract that auto-renews for life, Fedor being able to represent his country in Sambo, etc.).
It also amazes me that in the eyes of the “clapping seals” who must be proud to put forth the UFC’s agenda on any given issue under the guise of independent journalism, Fedor’s entire legitimacy as a fighter is riding on whether or not he accepts whatever it is that the UFC is offering him.
News flash: Even if Fedor retired from MMA tomorrow and never fought again, he would go down in history as the fighter who was the #1 heavyweight in the world for six straight years (from 2003 to 2009), and arguably the greatest fighter in MMA’s history up to this point (of course, as with any G.O.A.T. in any sport, there’s no assurance that another athlete wouldn’t eventually replace him in that position).
But don’t tell that to the “clapping seals” or Pavlov’s dogs. To them, one successful title defense can prompt questions of who can possibly stop a UFC champion, while Fedor is both illegitimate and irrelevant if he doesn’t sign with the UFC… and he’s not just illegitimate and irrelevant in 2009, but it also means that the last six years never happened.
and lol at the UFC for leaking out such an inflated dollar figure. That’s the easiest thing in the world to leak out in an effort to put pressure on the other side, because of the obligatory, “OMG, he turned down that much money!” response.
In fact, dollar figures have never been a major factor in holding up the UFC/Fedor negotiations. In 2007, the UFC offered a guarantee of $1.5 million per fight, and Fedor’s side was understandably happy with that figure. It wasn’t the money that held up the deal, and I’d be shocked if that’s what is holding up the deal now. There are fewer companies making offers now than there were in 2007, so I can’t imagine Fedor’s side wanting more than the $1.5 million per fight that was offered in 2007. There are more important things than dollar figures, such as not having the standard UFC contractual clause that auto-renews the contract for life if you’re a champion, not giving up the right to represent your home country in Sambo events, etc. Leaking out such an inflated dollar figure is very transparent on Zuffa’s part.
Ivan,
The Fedorfanatics are wearing thin on my nerves.
First they complained he couldn’t do Sambo. Well he can.
Then they complained it wasn’t enough money. It obviously is.
Now they are saying it’s not about the money. I say BS.
Co-Promotion means exactly one thing…. $$$$$$$$$. So the only thing holding it up is how much Vadim thinks he can get from Zuffa for himself.
You are smart, but you let your hatred for Zuffa make you have some really dumb posts.
“such as not having the standard UFC contractual clause that auto-renews the contract for life if you’re a champion”
The champion clause does not go on forever. It goes on for 1 year or 3 fights.
“not giving up the right to represent your home country in Sambo events”
Did you read the glorified press release? They said he can do Sambo.
“The champion clause does not go on forever. It goes on for 1 year or 3 fights.”
No, it renews one year at a time, and does it so indefinitely, until the champion loses the title. If it expired after just 12 months, Randy Couture would have been a free agent in August 2008. Were you not paying attention during the Zuffa/Couture case?
Wow, Zuffa leaked out that Fedor can still do Sambo and that means Zuffa really offered that? You mean just like Zuffa said that Fedor’s management wanted Zuffa to build a stadium in Russia? That’s strange. I don’t remember Affliction breaking ground on a stadium in Russia.
Based on today’s conference call, it seems that the game Fedor’s side is playing is to make co-promotion the big bargaining chip that they exchange for other things that Zuffa might actually agree to, like Fedor not being locked into a lifetime contract.
And dollar figures are not what’s holding up the deal. Anyone who was paying attention in 2007 knows that. Leaking out inflated dollar figures is just the quickest and easiest way for the UFC to evoke the desired response from the “clapping seals” and Pavlov’s dogs, and thus far it has worked brilliantly.
Delusional much? All because Zuffa won’t (rightfully) relent to “UFC and M-1 Global present…” Seriously? They’ll pay them a cut of the PPV money, but without the words and a logo on the mat and the advertisements…
Weak sauce.
Ivan,
This has been an enjoyable debate, but this is the end of it….
CHAMPIONSHIP CLAUSE
http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/inside-the-standard-zuffa-contract-9734
“Sherdog.com has confirmed the existence of a so-called champion’s clause, which provides that “if, at the expiration of the Term, Fighter is then UFC champion, the Term shall be automatically extended for a period commencing on the Termination Date and ending on the earlier of (i) one (1) year from the Termination Date; or (ii) the date on which Fighter has participated in three (3) bouts promoted by ZUFFA following the Termination Date (”Extension Term”). Any references to the Term herein shall be deemed to include a reference to the Extension Term, where applicable.” ”
Like I said, it is not indefinite.
So fighting that clause is pointless. He would still be getting $5 Million per fight. For whatever he does within that year.
SAMBO COMPETITION
He is getting a better deal then any NFL player….
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/jul/21/sp-nfl-contract-breaking-down-an-making-sense-of-d/sports-bucs/
“When an NFL player signs a contract, he often signs away some of his freedom. For example, Paragraph 3 of the standard player contract prohibits NFL players from playing football or participating in activities other than football that present a significant risk of personal injury.”
THE REST….
Their is no co-promotion bargaining chip. To bargain with it, the UFC would have to remotely consider it. Since they don’t, they will not be giving anything up for it. It’s that simple.
“No, it renews one year at a time, and does it so indefinitely, until the champion loses the title. If it expired after just 12 months, Randy Couture would have been a free agent in August 2008. Were you not paying attention during the Zuffa/Couture case?”
- “If at any time during the Term, Fighter decides to retire from mixed martial arts or other professional fighting competition,” the clause begins, “then ZUFFA may, at its election, (i) suspend the Term for the period of such retirement; (ii) declare that ZUFFA has satisfied its obligation to promote all future Bouts to be promoted by ZUFFA hereunder, without any compensation due to Fighter therefore; or (ii) elect to provide Fighter with notice of an Acceleration.”
For all practical purposes, sub clause (i) allows Zuffa to retain the rights to a retired fighter in perpetuity. Sherdog.com has confirmed that this clause does not appear in every Zuffa contract; it is believed to be reserved for top fighters.
The term of the contract may also be extended indefinitely for any period when a fighter is “unable, unwilling or refuses to compete or train for a Bout for any reason whatsoever.”
- Sherdog.com has confirmed the existence of a so-called champion’s clause, which provides that “if, at the expiration of the Term, Fighter is then UFC champion, the Term shall be automatically extended for a period commencing on the Termination Date and ending on the earlier of (i) one (1) year from the Termination Date; or (ii) the date on which Fighter has participated in three (3) bouts promoted by ZUFFA following the Termination Date (”Extension Term”). Any references to the Term herein shall be deemed to include a reference to the Extension Term, where applicable.”
http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/Inside-the-Standard-Zuffa-Contract-9734
———
It looks as though Randy was unable to get out of his contract because Zuffa has some discretion over the determination of when that 12 months has elapsed. Especially when a fighter is being uncooperative.
And the champions clause does seem renewable, though it only renews at the END of a year/3 fights when the fighter is champion. I would imagine that it has never gotten to the point where it has been used twice consecutively.
Ivan,
You stated:
News flash: Even if Fedor retired from MMA tomorrow and never fought again, he would go down in history as the fighter who was the #1 heavyweight in the world for six straight years (from 2003 to 2009), and arguably the greatest fighter in MMA’s history up to this point (of course, as with any G.O.A.T. in any sport, there’s no assurance that another athlete wouldn’t eventually replace him in that position).
Here’s the thing that Fedor seems to be failing to realize, or his management doesn’t realize, outside the hardcore fans, very few people know who Fedor is. The only thing that the casual sports fan know of when they think of MMA is the UFC.
I consider myself a knowledgeable fan of MMA, but a lot of my friends who I watch PPV events with knew nothing about any promotion outside of the UFC. The casual sports fan considers any league outside of the UFC as the “minor leagues.” After the UFC 100 ppv, my good friend, who is a noob to the sport, was praising Brock Lesnar. When I told him about Fedor, and how I thought Fedor has the talent to beat Brock, he did not believe me, and stated “If Fedor is so good, why doesn’t he sign with the UFC and prove himself?”
MMA is a sport that is growing in popularity by the day, but to the casual fan, the only league in town is the UFC. If you aren’t a champ in the UFC, you must not be the best in that weight class.
I know, and you know, that this logic is wrong. Ever reader of fightopinion.com knows that there is a plethora of talent outside of the UFC for Fedor to face. Finances aside, if Fedor wants to be considered one of the best fighters of all time by the general public, he has to make a run at the belt while in the UFC.
MMA is here to stay, but I also think that the UFC has established themselves to the point that as long as they are around, the general public (not the hardcore MMA fans) will think that the best fighters are in the UFC.
Will strikeforce co-promote with M-1? Seems like they might be willing to. Can they match the UFC’s offer financially? Doubtful. Will the general public consider Fedor to be the best heavyweight in the world, or even know who he is, if he decides to sign with an organization outside of the UFC? I dont think so…maybe I’m wrong, but it will take one hell of a P.R. push by M-1 to convince the public he is. Also remember that they will have to do this without the rights to show most of Fedor’s fights from Pride (and maybe even affliction).
In short, if Fedor doesn’t sign with the UFC, his legacy as the G.O.A.T. will be heavily debated in the future, and it will appear to the general public that he is ducking credible opposition. If he signs with the UFC, he has the chance to cement his legacy as the best heavyweight fighter in the early stages of MMA, and nobody will be able to argue that. He has the chance to be the Jack Johnson of MMA.
I think M-1 is greatly overstating their bargaining position. I hope Fedor’s management was using this press conference as a negotiating ploy.
The UFC offers Fedor
1) better financial opportunities
2) the chance to cement his legacy as the first true great heavyweight champion of MMA
At this point in Fedor’s career, not signing with the UFC would simply be foolish, and perhaps the biggest case of mismanagement in MMA to date.
Signing with strikeforce, dream, MVR, etc., will do nothing to elevate Fedor’s status amongst the casual sports fan.
45 Huddle— Again, you clearly weren’t paying very close attention during the Zuffa/Couture case. If the champion’s clause only extended for a single one-year term, Couture would have been a free agent in August 2008.
As for the Sambo comparisons to the NFL, you’re absolutely right that an NFL player wouldn’t be allowed to compete in Sambo. But I’m not really sure that you want to start with the NFL comparisons. NFL players are also guaranteed more than 50% of the league’s gross revenue, NFL players also don’t get threatened into signing away the exclusive lifetime rights to their own likenesses for free, and so on…
Wow, the Pavlovian response to the UFC’s leak of inflated dollar figures has worked far better than the UFC could have possibly hoped.
One little leak and now it’s being regarded everywhere as the undeniable truth. That was easy.
The MMA media is basically… You know.
I’m glad Fedor is still fighting for the Freedom of Mixed Martial Arts.
mmalogic strikes again….
Here’s the entire sticking point:
M1 doesnt benefit by Fedor getting 5 million dollars… And Zuffa wont play a part in their stupid scheme. After Fedor gets the money if he wants to throw it away that’s up to him but if theres one thing the Dana hates more than anything else it’s scumbags like this.
So zuffa is making an offer for FEDOR because its FEDOR Zuffa wants and Zuffa wants him to decide where the money goes. Zuffa is also trying to take care of M1 so these leeches get off his back.
Every fucking thing was agreed to until M-1 tried to pull a bernie madoff and insisted a new “structure” for how the payments would be disbursed without involving Fedor.
Like I said the biggest fucking untold story in MMA. The funny thing is Zuffa now has the 1 million per fight contract Vadim negotiated on his own behalf at the expense of Fedor.
Here’s the bottom line and here’s what they mean by “co-promotion”.
“Pay us the money and we will decide what Fedor gets because we are co-promoting (wink-wink)” THIS WAY THEY CAN HIDE THEIR THEFT.
You wanna know how much they want to pay Fedor? About 10% of the negotiated amount.
ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME.
So even if Zuffa offers Fedor 10 million… M-1 dont give a shit unless they decide where the money goes not Fedor.
SO THE ENTIRE STICKING POINT IS M-1 WANTS TO STRUCTURE THE DEAL SO IT’S EASIER FOR THEM TO STEAL.
This is what “co-promotion” means.
Ivan,
Please explain to me how it benefits Fedor at this point in his career to sign with an organization other than the UFC?
Lets say the numbers are “inflated”. Do you really think strikeforce can offer more than the UFC? Or any org for that matter?
If Fedor fights for another org. and wins, will the casual fan really consider fedor to be the best? (No..they won’t)
I’m not saying the UFC runs their promotion like saints but…
I still fail to see any legitimate reason for not signing on with the UFC at this point in Fedor’s career, and you’ve yet to point one out.
Vadim is seriously f’ing up big time
William Holmes— Regarding your point that casual UFC fans are never going to regard Fedor as the G.O.A.T. if he doesn’t sign with the UFC, I can’t disagree with that. Casual UFC fans (and plenty of hardcore fans, too) will believe whatever they’re told by the UFC, so there are probably a lot of casual UFC fans who think that Fedor is not the G.O.A.T., but is actually a fraud, a farce, has never beaten anyone, is out of shape, and is probably headed back to a buffet table in Russia, where he will presumably eat with the other “crazy Russians.”
“I still fail to see any legitimate reason for not signing on with the UFC at this point in Fedor’s career, and you’ve yet to point one out.”
If the Japanese promotions can pool their resources and offer Fedor something in the neighborhood of what the UFC actually offered him in the past ($1.5 million per fight), and if they do so without all of the contractual restrictions, Fedor’s camp might consider that a better offer. They probably can’t right now, though, and Strikeforce certainly can’t.
That’s the thing about a de-facto no-compete clause for life. Just because there is nobody else throwing around $1 million+ per fight right now, that doesn’t mean there will never be. If such an offer came up after 4 or 5 or 6 UFC fights and Fedor was the champion, Fedor wouldn’t be able to take that offer, or any other outside offer, until he lost the UFC title.
If he wanted to fight that clause in court as Couture did, there would be a solid 18-to-24 months from the time that the lawsuit was filed to the trial date, and even then, there is no guarantee that he’d win in a Nevada court system with judges like the Xyience/Bergeron case judge who got elected with Fertitta campaign money (that is not a secret, a rumor, or a conspiracy theory, as the judge publicly thanked the Fertittas on his web site for their contributions to his election campaign).
45 Huddle— Thank you for the update from mmalogic. I also loved his recent post where he said that he makes $3,000 per hour, and that his advice is actually worth 10 to 100 times more than that. His $3,000 per hour income explains why he spends so much time posting comments on an MMA blog. I mean, I also spend a lot of time posting comments on an MMA blog, but I’m not claiming to have a job that pays me $3,000 per hour, either.
“Wow, the Pavlovian response to the UFC’s leak of inflated dollar figures has worked far better than the UFC could have possibly hoped.
One little leak and now it’s being regarded everywhere as the undeniable truth. That was easy.”
Don’t be so obtuse, Ivan.
If its a leaked, inflated, bluff figure, its an incredibly dumb ploy. All that is needed is Vadim to call every MMA blog and scream “SETTLE! Settle settle settle settle settle!” Liar Liar-style. Then they either get the ridiculous payout, or the UFC has to admit it was a bullshit figure.
Do you really think the UFC would make such a stupid mistake? Its one thing to make an error in judgement, its another thing to make a bluff that COSTS NOTHING TO CALL. Idiot.
Ivan,
These contractural restrictions are part of the reason as to why the UFC has been able to grow their brand exponentially in the last few years, and in turn the growth of MMA. Good points though.
I still believe fedor (or his management) are overplaying their hand, and Fedor is under horrible management.
If Mmalogic is making 3,000 an hour sign me up!! I just graduated law school, have a crap load if loans to pay off, and my judicial clerkship is about to end…and I have no job lined up.
At this point I’d be more than happy to make 3,000 in a month. The job market is horrible right now. Fedor will turn a lot of fans into haters if rumors of him turning down a 5 mill per fight contract continue to spread.
Michael, I’m well aware that you think I’m an idiot, but the scenario that you described would only apply if the UFC openly said, “This is what we offered him.” They didn’t. Instead, they leaked it out and they can deny that the numbers came from them if Fedor’s camp ever called them on it.
Ivan, if they do that, they still lose. The blogosphere will instantly scream “bullshit!” and turn on the UFC for leaking those numbers. It doesn’t matter if they deny it, because people BELIEVE THEY OFFERED IT. If Fedor and Vadim scream that they accept the offer, and the UFC denies ever offering it, Fedor and Vadim win.
Admit it, there is no way to defend this as a UFC ploy short of thinking they are really fucking dumb.
Hell, even if we assume that people will spontaneously change their minds and say “no, the UFC never offered that!” Vadim and Fedor will still look good as long as they show they’re willing to accept an offer. There is simply nothing to gain from a ploy that cannot be taken away simply by a public display of accepting the offer.
Michael— You mean if Fedor’s camp says one thing and the UFC says another thing that directly contradicts Fedor’s camp (ie, we have no idea where those dollar figures came from and we certainly never offered that to Fedor), people will believe Fedor’s camp? I’m sorry, I couldn’t initially tell that you were joking.
So according to mmalogic, Finkelstein turned down the $5 mil per fight deal, because the money would go directly to Fedor and not Finkelstein/M1, who wanted to keep 90% $4.5m) for himself and give Fedor 10% ($500k). Instead, Finkelstein is going to take a deal from Strikeforce or Dream for $1 mil/fight at most (probably closer to $500k), so that he can keep $900k for himself (at most) and give Fedor $100K, despite the fact that, according to mmalogic, Zuffa was prepared to “take care of” Finkelstein to the tune of $1 million per fight on the side?
Even if Fedor got to keep ALL of the $5 million per fight Zuffa allegedly offered, Finkelstein would still make more money with the $1 million side deal than he would splitting Strikeforce or Dream purses 90/10 with Fedor.
And besides, if Fedor is as stupid or guileless as mmalogic alleges, why wouldn’t Finkelstein just take the $5mil deal for Fedor and the $1 mil deal for himself, and scam a couple of million or so from Fedor through “consulting fees”, etc., and still come out waaay ahead?
If Finkelstein has such Rasputin-like powers that he has Fedor convinced that promoters are offering 1/10 of what they really are, then how difficult would it be for him to come up with legit-sounding schemes to separate poor dumb Fedor from his millions?
Nothing to gain from it? Have you missed the explosion that has occurred and that will continue to occur as more and more media outlets and MMA fans see those dollar figures and have the anticipated reaction of, “OMG! How could anyone turn that money down?!?”
Sorry, that last post (starting with “Nothing to gain?”) was also in response to Michael, it was just a double post because I didn’t see his second post at first.
“Michael— You mean if Fedor’s camp says one thing and the UFC says another thing that directly contradicts Fedor’s camp (ie, we have no idea where those dollar figures came from and we certainly never offered that to Fedor), people will believe Fedor’s camp? I’m sorry, I couldn’t initially tell that you were joking.”
So, in other words, you can’t argue with my point. All you can do is suggest that people will instantly ignore the actions of the people involved, in favor of once again supporting the UFC.
When your argument boils down to “no, people are ignorant and easily led!” maybe you need to rethink the argument.
If Vadim and Fedor say yes to that “fake” contract, what people will see is that Vadim and Fedor are willing to accept a “compromise” contract. Good for Vadim and Fedor, in the public eye. Bad for the UFC.
Of course, if we’re all a bunch of dumbfucks who believe whatever the UFC tells us, what are you doing here, Ivan? Who are you trying to convince?
“OMG! How could anyone turn that money down?!?”
Followed by “ok, they are not dumb, they didn’t turn it down”.
Seriously. Claiming that a bluff that costs nothing to call is a brilliant ploy by the UFC. You can do better than that.
““OMG! How could anyone turn that money down?!?”
Followed by “ok, they are not dumb, they didn’t turn it down”.”
Okay…
So far, how many media outlets and message board posters have said, “OMG! How could anyone turn that money down?!?”? A lot.
So far, how many media outlets and message board posters have said, “ok, they are not dumb, they didn’t turn it down” so far? Not very many.
Is your argument really that more people are going to express the latter sentiment than the former sentiment?
I didn’t call anyone a dumbfuck (I’ll leave the name-callin to you, Michael), but if you don’t think that most UFC fans would flat-out believe Dana White’s word over M-1 Global’s word, then you must pay very little attention to the MMA media or to comment posters, and I don’t think that is the case.
Here is the bottom line. Fedor is the best fighter to ever compete in MMA to this point.
In boxing many people believe Muhammad Ali or Sugar Ray Robinson were the best ever. But nobody lists either of them at thetop of the list of active fighters.
If Fedor doesn’t go to UFC he will still be the best ever. For now. But he should no longer be ranked the top current heavyweight.
It is concievable that Brock beats Velasquez, Carwin, nog or Randy again, Cro Cop, Machida, Tito Ortiz and Anderson Silva. That cod be his next three years. Or one of the other guys could amass the same resume. That fighter would then trump Fedor on the all time great list. Fedor avoiding UFC would aid in that argument.
First of all, when is Anderson Silva going to fight Brock Lesnar at heavyweight? But other than that, you do make a good point that there are currently more highly-ranked heavyweight fighters in the UFC than there are outside of the UFC. But let’s not act like there are NO highly-ranked heavyweight fighters outside of the UFC. Even with Josh Barnett out of the picture, other top-15-ranked heavyweights who are not in the UFC include Brett Rogers, Alistair Overeem, Jeff Monson, Fabricio Werdum, and Andrei Arlovski. That’s a stronger heavyweight division than the UFC had a few years ago (a UFC heavyweight division that Dana White now says completely sucked), but you’re right that it’s still not as good as the UFC’s current heavyweight division. Couture, Nogueira, and Cro Cop are all closer to the end than they are to their primes, and Fedor beat Nogueira and Cro Cop in their primes, but Lesnar beating the Carwin/Velasquez winner would indeed be a very big achievement and I would look forward to that fight.
The delusions of Fedor fans continue to amaze me, Fedor is not the greatest anything you can’t be when you are ducking the top mma promotion in the world. It’s like a foreign basketball player being proclaimed the best of all time even though he never played in the NBA. Can’t happen and considering the history of his Pride HW counterparts the Fedor myth is on it’s last legs. His best hope to have any king of legacy is to come to the UFC and make his mark. Because if he doesn’t he’ll be forgotten and be a guy that only hardcore’s ever even think about the UFC is taking over the mma world either you join them or you disappear.
Carmichael Dave always seemed to be very close to Dana White, but I am not sure if thats a positive or negative in terms of him having the right numbers.
If those figures are correct then Fedor would be foolish to not accept them. He will never come close to making $5 million per fight outside of the UFC. Dream or Strikeforce can’t provide even a million dollar contract unless they revert to the PPV model which will fail. Fans are only going to buy PPVs in North America and only if they are promoted by the UFC.
There has to be more to this, maybe those six fights are not guaranteed?
At this point I don’t really see the champions clause as a big deal because fighters will not earn more then $5 million per fight in the next five years. If we look at the UFC PPV numbers, the top guys might deserve $10 million + contracts but ZUFFA will never allow them to earn that much and nothing outside of the UFC will be as lucrative. The only guy who might force them into giving out Tyson type paydays is Brock if he puts on a long winning streak. Fedor will never be the cross-over star that Brock is, even if he beats him.
It wouldn’t make sense for Fedor to go to Strikeforce and only earn 1.5 million. What can they and Showtime possibly offer M-1? Also I don’t see how M-1 made much of a profit from co-promoting with Affliction since the PPVs tanked.
If the offer is real then Fedor’s team will accept and they are just currently haggling over some other points, probably trying to guarantee the contract.
If Fedor doesnt sign with the UFC it doesn’t mean he ducking competition. Would I like to see home in the UFC? Yes. If he never fights there it won’t reduce his legacy.
I’m just glad Fedor is in the EA MMA Game!!
No, if he retires or goes elsewhere, then he becomes the guy who refused to sign the richest MMA contract of all time, regardless of whether the numbers are real or not.
And I don’t see any reason to say they aren’t real.
Maybe 30 mil is based on the fight/win instead of a guaranteed amount, other than that, it’s just silly presuming that it’s a total fiction. UFC is offering him money, it’s a fair bet that it’s more than anyone else has ever made in the sport, and he would be treated as the top fighter in their stable, hands down.
Anything other than that is spin.
The Ruth comparison was more for the “changing of the sport”, as in Ruth didn’t have to deal with the level of pitching Barry Bonds did when he played, just like Fedor didn’t have to deal with the “big guys with better skill” his detractors keep pointing at. It doesn’t mean his run in the first half of the decade should be discredited. Maybe if guys could throw 100 mile an hour fastballs and sinkers Ruth would have stuck out a lot more. But he isn’t a fraud because he couldn’t compete 80 years later. If baseball was MMA, fans would demand the removal of him from the record books, and Hank Aaron. Hell, probably Barry Bonds too since a few years have passed and 2007 is “old” in MMA years.
Also, it’s very interesting to me how when a beloved MMA fighter makes a decision fans don’t agree with, they throw it on someone else. Randy never would have had problems with Zuffa if Kim didn’t get involved in his business affairs. Tito wouldn’t have made outlandish demands for money if Jenna didn’t get in his ear. And now Fedor’s entire life is decided by his manager? All 3 of those men are reasonably intelligent from what we’ve seen, they make the final decision because they want to, not because they’re subservient to a master. Vadim, Jenna and Kim obviously chipped in their two cents to Fedor, Tito and Randy, but they did not make the decision for them. It’s a copout to say “I’ll credit you for your good points but blame the bad ones on somebody else.”
[...] If you read Zach Arnold’s FightOpinion site, you know 45 Huddle. If you know 45, you also know he can be a bit hard-headed and that your regular commenters usually don’t agree with him, but he makes an incredibly valid point here: [...]