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Strikeforce 6/6 St. Louis (Scottrade Center)
By Zach Arnold | June 6, 2009
TV: Showtime (Saturday night, 10 PM EST)
Dark matches
- Welterweights (170 pounds): Jesse Finney vs. Josh Bumgarner
- Welterweights (170 pounds): Tyron Woodley vs. Sal Woods
- Middleweights (185 pounds): Scott Ventimiglia vs. Lucas Lopes
- Lightweights (155 pounds): Pat Benson vs. Dave Cochran
- Welterweights (170 pounds): Booker DeRousse vs. James Wade
Main card
- Light Heavyweights (205 pounds): Kevin Randleman vs. Mike Whitehead
- Middleweights (185 pounds): Phil Baroni vs. Joe Riggs
- Catch weight (180 pounds): Nick Diaz vs. Scott Smith
- Heavyweights (up to 265 pounds): Andrei Arlovski vs. Brett Rogers
- Middleweights (185 pounds): Robbie Lawler vs. Jake Shields
Topics: Media, MMA, StrikeForce, Zach Arnold | 35 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
Pretty good main card IMO.
War Whitehead!
Randleman/Whitehead and Riggs/Baroni are pointless fights. And actually, Randleman/Whitehead has the potential of being a 3 round snoozefest.
Diaz/Smith and Lawler/Shields are two even match-ups on paper, despite all the weight class moves.
And Arlovski/Rogers has the potential to either build a star or completely stunt the growth of a prospect with bad matchmaking. Arlovski has zero chin, so Rogers has a chance. It’s actually a big risk fight for Strikeforce. They don’t have Arlovski signed to a contract. So they much be banking on a Rogers upset.
Why are they “pointless” fights?
Randleman/Whitehead is actually a very good test for the former UFC champion in order to see if he has anything left to offer the sport. And, Riggs/Baroni has good old fashioned brawl written all over it.
Let’s face it — not all fights can have serious ramifications attached to it. Some bouts are just made for their potential to be entertaining affairs. What’s wrong with that?
This is actually a very fun card. Sure, “pointless” for some fights, but who cares? Phil Baroni is one of the most entertaining fighters alive and they are putting some recognizable names on a card is all.
UFC can put no names on their cards because the individual doesn’t matter, the brand matters. The worst UFC card in history will still do decent numbers because it is UFC.
Strikeforce has no real name value yet and has to do the tough sell with name fighters to build up their brand. How is this a weird concept?
I like this card. But I think Whithead-Randelman is going to be a stinker. And I can’t see that match drwaing any additional viewers.
I would much rather see them air the Tyron Woodley bout. Woodley is a really good prospect and is from that area. The pop that he would recieve from the fans would probably come off well on television.
Pointless because there is really no potential growth for the winners. The verdict is out on Randleman and Whitehead. We all know neither can really break into the Top 20.
At least with a fight like Cavalcante vs. Hamman, it was a fight between two up & coming fighters with the winner earning a title shot. And while we don’t know their futures, at least it is more interesting then watching two guys who really will never go up any further in the sport.
Perhaps it’s just too much fighting on TV, but to me, a fight has to mean something these days. And it’s not just a Strikeforce thing. The UFC has a few of these types of fights. Names like Lytle and McFedries come to mind, where if they win, I don’t care. And if they lose, the winning fighter hasn’t really proven anything.
Well yeah, if Phil Baroni wins at this point it just means Riggs sucks more than people think. If Randleman wins the same can be said for Whitehead.
Strikeforce is just in a position where they have to push anybody who has been on TV before. I mean, Whitehead/Randleman sucks really hard, but former UFC Heavyweight Champion against a former TUF competitor at least somewhat helps with their cred.
I have to say it again, why are Scott Smith and Nick Diaz fighting so damn soon? They just fought back in April, and Smith was in a war against Radach. Even though Smith miraculously won, he took more damage than Radach. Diaz dominated Shamrock and took no damage, so he’s good to go. But Smith should really take a little more time off. Didn’t Smith suffer a cut or two in the fight against Radach?
I’m not sure starting a show off with Whitehead/Randleman is a good idea. They should probably have Baroni/Riggs open the TV portion of the card.
Chuck,
You bring up a great point, and something I have noticed with athletic comissions. They only seem to suspend the winning fighters if they break something. All too often, two fighters beat each other up (Radach/Smith), and only the losing fighter has a long suspension for the abuse their took.
I would like to see that trend be different. For example, a fight like Liddell/Silva, even if neither where KO’d, they shouldbe treated as such and be suspended for a period of time to allow everything to heal properly.
Looks like a really good, fun show.
Much better than tuf infested ppvs the ufc seem intent on runnning.
Lose first round in TUF? No problem that 15mins of tv time will get you a few fight on either the prelim part of ppvs or a mid card spot on fight night card.
Hustle 45 the zuffa shill.
Why is randleman/whitehead a snoozefest?
Yeah randleman is usually a stinker, but whitehead is 15-1 since dropping to Jardine. And all finishes except a win over sozinski and the loss to bab.
Care to expand on that?
This is a good card. It doesn’t matter what the point is. The point is to see some good fights and be entertained, and this card looks like it is on the right track.
A Couple of Things:
1) Who says Whitehead cannot break into the top 20?
2) This lineup is not updated. Feijao is fighting Kyle as well.
“Feijao is fighting Kyle as well.”
That sounds nice as well.
Good card keeps getting gooder.
I hope Jake Shields won’t be watching Diaz-Smith fight in the backstage. If he sees his teammate stand with a striker, he might end up doing the same and get TKOd.
Can we drop the Arlovski hype yet? I felt like a broken record when I said he hasn’t done enough since the Sylvia losses to earn a top 5 ranking.
Next up is Barnett’s ridiculous #2/#3 ranking.
I agree with IceMuncher on this one. And I’ve been saying the same thing. I think Arlovski is out of the Top 10 with that loss. Having him as high as #2 was comical for so long.
Same thing for Lawler. I have seen him ranked as high as #2. Who did he beat to get such a high ranking? The guy should have always been #8-#10, but some people liek to overhype the guys outside the UFC.
Overall, it was a bad night of fights. The first 3 fights had 1 of the fighters completely gassed after round 1. This was Randleman, Baroni, & Smith.
The last two fights saved the card, because before that, it was very hard to watch.
Oh, and Jake Shields would get wrecked in the UFC at Middleweight (by comparison).
The other three things I forgot to mention:
1. Cavalcante losing was a huge blow to Strikeforce. This guy was supposed to be the next big thing. Heck, Zuffa was after him for a while. Losing to Mike Kyle makes his stock drop from about $100 to $.01.
2. This show really felt like the UFC minor leagues.
3. The camera work was especially horrible.
Incredible performances tonight by Jake Shields, Brett Rogers, and Nick Diaz. I do hope that Shields’ and Diaz’ fights in the future are at either 185 or 170; enough of this catch-weight madness.
Rogers’ win in a nutshell captures why the UFC doesn’t have to chase Fedor. Its seen as a big upset, but it really isn’t; its just another data point in the uprooting of the HW division. Guys like Velasquez, Dos Santos, and Rogers are going to redefine quality in the HW division, the way St. Pierre and Alves have redefined it after the Hughes era. As great as Fedor is, he’s still basically an incredible LHW in a division full of shitty HWs. Thats gonna change very quickly over the next couple years.
Goodness gracious!
How in bloody heck is Arlovski going to box with that chin?!
Its a specifically and exclusively headhunting sport!
How is he going to go 1 round against a decent opponent?
Beautiful performance by diaz!
He was just being silly!
Its good to see him having fun again. Thats what he lost at the end of his UFC run.
UFC is the bigtime, but sometimes, for some fighters its more conductive outside.
I question showtimes actual devotion to their property though.
I missed the first broadcast and I just assumed there would be another rebroadcast afterwards.
Thats standard procedure right?
No rebroadcast in sight.
It played right after. Showtime Eeast, Showtime West, and then they will show it again.
With that hyperbole, I think michaelinthebox = mikegoldberginthebox.
I’m not saying they won’t be greats one day. But wait until they fight top tier opponents until you declare them more dangerous than the all-time best heavyweight fighter in the sport. So far we’ve only got Carwin’s win over Gonzaga to go on. When they take out Cro Cop, Nogueira and Mir, then the hyperbole can begin.
lol@Arlovski. He is the Glass Joe of MMA.
“lol@Arlovski. He is the Glass Joe of MMA.”
Naw, he’s the Von Kaiser of MMA! He still has a winning record. Wait until he’s had 99 losses in a row!
I think there is a lot of validity to what Michaelthebox is saying. Kind of like HW Boxing of the past compared to now. Do we really need them to fight each other to know that the guys of the past were far superior? Not really.
From Middleweight to Bantamweight, it really takes a complete fighter to rise to the top of the division. This is mostly the case with LHW as well, with a few exceptions. However, the Heavyweight Division still seemed to be lagging behind the times. The vast majority of the Top 10 guys had obvious holes in their game, yet were still able to obtain Top 10 status for years. Heck look at the top 10, and it probably has more guys who have been in there for 3+ years compared to any other division. And just look at some of the huge holes in the top guys of the division:
1. Arlovski has absolutely no chin.
2. Nogueira really just used himself as a punching bag until his opponent made a mistake and he capitalized on it.
3. Sylvia has average striking and really was just using his size.
4. Barnett is average at everything, great at nothing.
This list goes on and on. This next crop of talent seems to finally bring to the Heavyweight Division what it has been lacking. Don’t get me wrong, it is still the weakest division in the sport. But the guys are showing a higher level of talent compared to their older counterparts.
And this most important story of last night is Carano/Cyborg is NOT on CBS. Kind of shocking.
Haven’t you seen enough “one fight wonders” in MMA History to want to see Dos Santos do more than just beat Werdum and Carwin do more than just beat Gonzaga? Again, I’m not saying they aren’t superior, they very well may be in the future. But they could also be the heavyweight Houston “One Fight Wonder” Alexanders for all we know. I don’t care what endeavor we’re talking about, you need to do more than one impressive fete before you’re deemed an all-time great. After 2 or 3 more impressive wins over class opponents, I’ll jump on the bandwagon with you. But I just want to make sure it’s not a fluke.
A few of these Heavyweights might be 1 hit wonders, but that still doesn’t change the real shift the division is going through. Even if only half of these up & comers pan out, it will still signal basically a new division. One in which the size of the average athlete has increased and the overall talent level has improved dramatically.
But this change will be happening primarily in the UFC, and somewhat in Strikeforce…. Not over in Japan, which has done nothing to harvest the next generation of Heavyweight fighters.
“It played right after. Showtime Eeast, Showtime West, and then they will show it again.”
Really, thats cool. I’m glad to hear that they did. I must have missed both of them. 🙂
I think HW is usually less skilled in general because HW bodies are rarer.
All the other weights are where most average people are at so you have to be a lot more skilled to be the best.
HW’s can rise to the top with just their size and average skills because the available talent pool is smaller.
“But they could also be the heavyweight Houston “One Fight Wonder” Alexanders for all we know. I don’t care what endeavor we’re talking about, you need to do more than one impressive fete before you’re deemed an all-time great.”
What 45 Huddle said. I don’t know for sure that Velasquez, Carwin, Dos Santos, Todd Duffee, Rogers, Chad Corvin, Lesnar, or any of the guys like that will end up being elite fighters over the long term.
But some of them will, and it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that on average, the upcoming prospects now are bigger, stronger, faster, and more athletic than almost all of the superstar heavyweights of yesteryear. Arlovski is the closest to elite HW athlete of all the old school, and he’s got a paper chin and a ten-cent head.
Let me ask you this, Mark: can you imagine a fighter with the talent and skills of Sylvia being a top 5 fighter, five years from now?
Of course not. Tim Sylvia only won the Heavyweight belt because he came in at the right time when Ricco Rodriguez’s life was spiraling out of control, PRIDE cared more about bringing in the best heavyweights than UFC did and Frank Mir’s career was derailed by the motorcycle accident. If Ricco didn’t have substance abuse problems ruining his career he would have easily beat Sylvia, and if Mir didn’t go out to the motorcycle accident he would have won a re-match against Sylvia.
And forget about the guys of the future, Sylvia would have been beaten by all of PRIDE’s HW division in that same time period, including gatekeepers like Kharitonov and Aleks. Maybe he could have beaten Goodridge and Bobbish, but that’s debatable.
A real question, which would actually coincide with my point, would be could a fighter like Fedor be a top 5 fighter in 2014.
“A real question, which would actually coincide with my point, would be could a fighter like Fedor be a top 5 fighter in 2014.”
With the exception of his hairline, he is TIMELESS!! Naw, just kidding about the timeless thing. I don’t know. I think father time will bite him in the ass at that point, so probably not.
“A real question, which would actually coincide with my point, would be could a fighter like Fedor be a top 5 fighter in 2014.”
At LHW? Probably. At HW? Very questionable.
However my original point, which I failed to effectively convey, is that Fedor WILL be surpassed in the next couple years. Whether it will be by Lesnar or Velasquez or Dos Santos or Rogers or somebody else, I don’t know. But one of the prospects will pan out to be a huge, athletic, skilled badass without any enormous holes, which is something that has never existed in the HW division, ever.
Fedor only really matters if he’s the best in the world. If he’s not, all his market value drops through the floor.
The UFC can afford to wait for that to happen.
Wow that takes a lot of balls Michaelthebox. Claiming that a fighter will be surpassed, by someone, sometime, in the future!
That’s like betting the field against Tiger for the next ten years and giving yourself a pat on the back when it inevitably turns out correct.
Lesnar – is pretty much the same age as Fedor with a scintilla of the experience and is pretty one-dimensional at this point, though he can hit hard.
Velasquez – is also right near the same age as Fedor, has little experience, has fought ONLY cans and really isn’t that much larger than Fedor physically at 6’1, 240.
Dos Santos and Rogers – really???
How can you be betting that they’ll surpass him in less than 5 years, especially given the fact that he’s taken relatively little damage over his career?