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	<title>Comments on: Couple of things I noticed about last night&#8217;s TUF Finale show on Spike TV&#8230;</title>
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	<link>http://www.fightopinion.com/2008/12/14/couple-of-things-i-noticed-about-last-nights-tuf-finale-show-on-spike-tv/</link>
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		<title>By: Ivan Trembow</title>
		<link>http://www.fightopinion.com/2008/12/14/couple-of-things-i-noticed-about-last-nights-tuf-finale-show-on-spike-tv/comment-page-1/#comment-56137</link>
		<dc:creator>Ivan Trembow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 09:11:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fightopinion.com/?p=3175#comment-56137</guid>
		<description>In response to Michael Rome&#039;s post, we disagree about Browning, but I think you and I do agree on where TUF needs to go in the future.  I couldn&#039;t agree more when you wrote this on Bloody Elbow:

&quot;I think the show does need to change, but a straight-ahead training version of what they have now would be boring as shit and lose viewers. They need to do about 10-15 of house/training, 15 minutes on background and story of each guy and who they are, and then the fight. All these guys tend to have interesting backgrounds, it’s time to focus on them.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In response to Michael Rome&#8217;s post, we disagree about Browning, but I think you and I do agree on where TUF needs to go in the future.  I couldn&#8217;t agree more when you wrote this on Bloody Elbow:</p>
<p>&#8220;I think the show does need to change, but a straight-ahead training version of what they have now would be boring as shit and lose viewers. They need to do about 10-15 of house/training, 15 minutes on background and story of each guy and who they are, and then the fight. All these guys tend to have interesting backgrounds, it’s time to focus on them.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: dave2</title>
		<link>http://www.fightopinion.com/2008/12/14/couple-of-things-i-noticed-about-last-nights-tuf-finale-show-on-spike-tv/comment-page-1/#comment-56115</link>
		<dc:creator>dave2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 21:14:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fightopinion.com/?p=3175#comment-56115</guid>
		<description>The UFC is going to have some problems with their international expansion after what went done on TUF. Dana was banking on Nover to be their Filipino star and now he lost to an underdog and is no longer undefeated. The fact that Nover now conveniently calls himself Philippe the Filipino Assassin even though he used to pronounce his name in an Americanized way early on TUF and didn&#039;t have the nick name shows just how insincere Nover is. Apparently Vera is popular in the Philippines but I&#039;m still skeptical about how warmly accepted born and bred Americans with Filipino ancestry are going to be accepted over there. The fact that MMA fans on the internet were trying to make it out like Nover could be MMA&#039;s Pacquiao is a joke. Even Denis Kang, who IS accepted by Korean fans, doesn&#039;t come close to the drawing power of a korean national like Akiyama or HMC. Kang is good enough to headline a Spirit MC show but if the UFC is serious about Korea, they need Akiyama. And if the UFC is serious about the Philippines in 2009, they need to find a solid Filipino national fighter. Vera and Nover aren&#039;t going to cut it.

At first I figured that a Efrain victory would be good for UFC expansion in Mexico since Efrain was born in Mexico and is much more genuine than Golden Boy and Huerta. But Efrain fights a very American collegiate wrestling style as opposed to the scrappy aggressive style that Mexican fight fans generally identify with. But at least putting him in Mexico would be OK whereas playing up Huerta&#039;s heritage in Mexico would be a joke almost up there with Marcus &quot;The Irish Hand Grenade&quot; Davis. When it comes to building international stars, the UFC really has their work cut out for them.

The Junie push takes the cake though. Junie will lose to a good fighter, lose his temper and then wash out of the UFC. I just don&#039;t see what&#039;s so amazing about him. Another over-hyped fighter like Nover.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The UFC is going to have some problems with their international expansion after what went done on TUF. Dana was banking on Nover to be their Filipino star and now he lost to an underdog and is no longer undefeated. The fact that Nover now conveniently calls himself Philippe the Filipino Assassin even though he used to pronounce his name in an Americanized way early on TUF and didn&#8217;t have the nick name shows just how insincere Nover is. Apparently Vera is popular in the Philippines but I&#8217;m still skeptical about how warmly accepted born and bred Americans with Filipino ancestry are going to be accepted over there. The fact that MMA fans on the internet were trying to make it out like Nover could be MMA&#8217;s Pacquiao is a joke. Even Denis Kang, who IS accepted by Korean fans, doesn&#8217;t come close to the drawing power of a korean national like Akiyama or HMC. Kang is good enough to headline a Spirit MC show but if the UFC is serious about Korea, they need Akiyama. And if the UFC is serious about the Philippines in 2009, they need to find a solid Filipino national fighter. Vera and Nover aren&#8217;t going to cut it.</p>
<p>At first I figured that a Efrain victory would be good for UFC expansion in Mexico since Efrain was born in Mexico and is much more genuine than Golden Boy and Huerta. But Efrain fights a very American collegiate wrestling style as opposed to the scrappy aggressive style that Mexican fight fans generally identify with. But at least putting him in Mexico would be OK whereas playing up Huerta&#8217;s heritage in Mexico would be a joke almost up there with Marcus &#8220;The Irish Hand Grenade&#8221; Davis. When it comes to building international stars, the UFC really has their work cut out for them.</p>
<p>The Junie push takes the cake though. Junie will lose to a good fighter, lose his temper and then wash out of the UFC. I just don&#8217;t see what&#8217;s so amazing about him. Another over-hyped fighter like Nover.</p>
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		<title>By: IceMuncher</title>
		<link>http://www.fightopinion.com/2008/12/14/couple-of-things-i-noticed-about-last-nights-tuf-finale-show-on-spike-tv/comment-page-1/#comment-56112</link>
		<dc:creator>IceMuncher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 18:34:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fightopinion.com/?p=3175#comment-56112</guid>
		<description>TUF gets exposure for the good fighters by getting people to tune in each week to watch guys like Junie.  

My gf watched it every week with me, mostly because of Junie initially, and by the finale she kept asking when her favorite guys from the house, Efrain and Kristof, would fight next so she could watch them.

That anecdote is pretty spot-on in describing what happened with almost every single person that became UFC fans by watching TUF.  They like the entertainment, but become fans of the best fighters in the house.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TUF gets exposure for the good fighters by getting people to tune in each week to watch guys like Junie.  </p>
<p>My gf watched it every week with me, mostly because of Junie initially, and by the finale she kept asking when her favorite guys from the house, Efrain and Kristof, would fight next so she could watch them.</p>
<p>That anecdote is pretty spot-on in describing what happened with almost every single person that became UFC fans by watching TUF.  They like the entertainment, but become fans of the best fighters in the house.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.fightopinion.com/2008/12/14/couple-of-things-i-noticed-about-last-nights-tuf-finale-show-on-spike-tv/comment-page-1/#comment-56094</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 13:51:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fightopinion.com/?p=3175#comment-56094</guid>
		<description>Luke Thomas is probably the most boring and overly serious person involved in the world of MMA bloggers, quoting him for your money shot is just kinda ridiculous. I&#039;m sure he is a nice dude, but just because other people overreact doesn&#039;t mean you aren&#039;t going overboard yourself.

I don&#039;t get what is so hard to grasp here; TUF made UFC. TUF made UFC through stupid antics, you can basically credit Chris Leben with the MMA boom for his antics. People aren&#039;t watching TUF for &quot;pure sport&quot; or anything else like that. They are watching it to see guys piss on each other&#039;s beds.

Also, that is how fighters are. Fighters are immature jock dudes looking to one up each other. Put them in a house and you get pranks. It happened in the Lion&#039;s Den, why wouldn&#039;t it happen in TUF houses? It is basically just a 13 week frat house.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Luke Thomas is probably the most boring and overly serious person involved in the world of MMA bloggers, quoting him for your money shot is just kinda ridiculous. I&#8217;m sure he is a nice dude, but just because other people overreact doesn&#8217;t mean you aren&#8217;t going overboard yourself.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t get what is so hard to grasp here; TUF made UFC. TUF made UFC through stupid antics, you can basically credit Chris Leben with the MMA boom for his antics. People aren&#8217;t watching TUF for &#8220;pure sport&#8221; or anything else like that. They are watching it to see guys piss on each other&#8217;s beds.</p>
<p>Also, that is how fighters are. Fighters are immature jock dudes looking to one up each other. Put them in a house and you get pranks. It happened in the Lion&#8217;s Den, why wouldn&#8217;t it happen in TUF houses? It is basically just a 13 week frat house.</p>
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		<title>By: Grape Knee High</title>
		<link>http://www.fightopinion.com/2008/12/14/couple-of-things-i-noticed-about-last-nights-tuf-finale-show-on-spike-tv/comment-page-1/#comment-56093</link>
		<dc:creator>Grape Knee High</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 13:47:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fightopinion.com/?p=3175#comment-56093</guid>
		<description>Condemnation of TUF for its idiocy is more of a criticism of low-brow American culture than it is of TUF, in my opinion.  Everyone wants to think that what is &quot;theirs&quot; -- in this case MMA -- is above the gutter trash mentality of most other reality shows.

Regardless of the Fertittas, White or Zuffa say or do, the reality is that TUF is worthless if no one watches.  And sadly, the truth is that if they played TUF straight no one would watch.  And TUF is worth more as a franchise and fan-recruiter for Zuffa as a popular, if low-brow, show than an unpopular one played straight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Condemnation of TUF for its idiocy is more of a criticism of low-brow American culture than it is of TUF, in my opinion.  Everyone wants to think that what is &#8220;theirs&#8221; &#8212; in this case MMA &#8212; is above the gutter trash mentality of most other reality shows.</p>
<p>Regardless of the Fertittas, White or Zuffa say or do, the reality is that TUF is worthless if no one watches.  And sadly, the truth is that if they played TUF straight no one would watch.  And TUF is worth more as a franchise and fan-recruiter for Zuffa as a popular, if low-brow, show than an unpopular one played straight.</p>
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		<title>By: Ivan Trembow</title>
		<link>http://www.fightopinion.com/2008/12/14/couple-of-things-i-noticed-about-last-nights-tuf-finale-show-on-spike-tv/comment-page-1/#comment-56084</link>
		<dc:creator>Ivan Trembow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 08:07:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fightopinion.com/?p=3175#comment-56084</guid>
		<description>Also, on the discussion of Chris Leben and what he is or is not like now, I am glad that he is sober now and I don&#039;t mean to downplay that being a significant accomplishment, because it is.  I&#039;m just saying that the whole portrayal of him in the lead-up to the Bisping fight as practically being a model citizen was a giant stretch, and then it was downright ridiculous for Mike Goldberg to actually say that he &quot;is a model citizen now,&quot; not long after he tested positive for steroids.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, on the discussion of Chris Leben and what he is or is not like now, I am glad that he is sober now and I don&#8217;t mean to downplay that being a significant accomplishment, because it is.  I&#8217;m just saying that the whole portrayal of him in the lead-up to the Bisping fight as practically being a model citizen was a giant stretch, and then it was downright ridiculous for Mike Goldberg to actually say that he &#8220;is a model citizen now,&#8221; not long after he tested positive for steroids.</p>
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		<title>By: Ivan Trembow</title>
		<link>http://www.fightopinion.com/2008/12/14/couple-of-things-i-noticed-about-last-nights-tuf-finale-show-on-spike-tv/comment-page-1/#comment-56083</link>
		<dc:creator>Ivan Trembow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 07:59:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fightopinion.com/?p=3175#comment-56083</guid>
		<description>I spoke out about Leben not being kicked off the show at the time as well.  But comparatively, Leben certainly didn&#039;t do five different things that warranted being kicked off the show.  

On a broader level of whether it&#039;s &quot;okay&quot; or not for all of these Trash TV antics to not only be tolerated by the UFC and Spike TV, but actually encouraged and rewarded, it depends on what you&#039;re looking at the show to do.  If it&#039;s just supposed to be gutter-trash television that draws a 1.3 rating instead of a 1.0 rating, then it&#039;s justifiable.  But using the UFC&#039;s own definition of what the show is supposed to be (as Lorenzo Fertitta said to Spiegel Online, &quot;People were surprised to find out that the fighters work hard, that they&#039;re not crude thugs but great athletes, intelligent and with good manners&quot;), it&#039;s moving farther and farther away from that all the time.

The idea seems to be out there that you need to have these kinds of Trash TV antics or else nobody would be interested in watching, but that is a false choice.  It&#039;s not a black-and-white choice between Trash TV and no show at all.  Luke Thomas on Bloody Elbow put it better than I could: &quot;There is an enormous universe of interesting content between watching fighters train and watching them ingest one another&#039;s bodily fluids. It&#039;s nothing more than a poverty of imagination and reliance on the lowest common denominator that prevents Spike&#039;s producers from delivering that sort of content.  Hopefully some of the pushback from this season will scale back the boorish nonsense we were subjected to this time around.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I spoke out about Leben not being kicked off the show at the time as well.  But comparatively, Leben certainly didn&#8217;t do five different things that warranted being kicked off the show.  </p>
<p>On a broader level of whether it&#8217;s &#8220;okay&#8221; or not for all of these Trash TV antics to not only be tolerated by the UFC and Spike TV, but actually encouraged and rewarded, it depends on what you&#8217;re looking at the show to do.  If it&#8217;s just supposed to be gutter-trash television that draws a 1.3 rating instead of a 1.0 rating, then it&#8217;s justifiable.  But using the UFC&#8217;s own definition of what the show is supposed to be (as Lorenzo Fertitta said to Spiegel Online, &#8220;People were surprised to find out that the fighters work hard, that they&#8217;re not crude thugs but great athletes, intelligent and with good manners&#8221;), it&#8217;s moving farther and farther away from that all the time.</p>
<p>The idea seems to be out there that you need to have these kinds of Trash TV antics or else nobody would be interested in watching, but that is a false choice.  It&#8217;s not a black-and-white choice between Trash TV and no show at all.  Luke Thomas on Bloody Elbow put it better than I could: &#8220;There is an enormous universe of interesting content between watching fighters train and watching them ingest one another&#8217;s bodily fluids. It&#8217;s nothing more than a poverty of imagination and reliance on the lowest common denominator that prevents Spike&#8217;s producers from delivering that sort of content.  Hopefully some of the pushback from this season will scale back the boorish nonsense we were subjected to this time around.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://www.fightopinion.com/2008/12/14/couple-of-things-i-noticed-about-last-nights-tuf-finale-show-on-spike-tv/comment-page-1/#comment-56080</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 05:52:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fightopinion.com/?p=3175#comment-56080</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t really understand Ivan&#039;s goal here. Is there some petition out there to make sure reality television rules are enforced fairly?  If not, perhaps that might be more productive?  The UFC never played fair, bringing Leben back on the very first season because they wanted him to win. Complaining about it when it continues years later with Junie seems odd to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t really understand Ivan&#8217;s goal here. Is there some petition out there to make sure reality television rules are enforced fairly?  If not, perhaps that might be more productive?  The UFC never played fair, bringing Leben back on the very first season because they wanted him to win. Complaining about it when it continues years later with Junie seems odd to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Zack</title>
		<link>http://www.fightopinion.com/2008/12/14/couple-of-things-i-noticed-about-last-nights-tuf-finale-show-on-spike-tv/comment-page-1/#comment-56079</link>
		<dc:creator>Zack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 02:50:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fightopinion.com/?p=3175#comment-56079</guid>
		<description>Ivan is at least consistant with hating everything, not just the UFC. I think he was definitely a lifeguard in another lifetime...enforcing a no fun policy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ivan is at least consistant with hating everything, not just the UFC. I think he was definitely a lifeguard in another lifetime&#8230;enforcing a no fun policy.</p>
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		<title>By: klown</title>
		<link>http://www.fightopinion.com/2008/12/14/couple-of-things-i-noticed-about-last-nights-tuf-finale-show-on-spike-tv/comment-page-1/#comment-56078</link>
		<dc:creator>klown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 01:40:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fightopinion.com/?p=3175#comment-56078</guid>
		<description>Ivan plays the role of watchdog, as does Zach and others endowed with critical thinking capacity. Stick to your guns, brothers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ivan plays the role of watchdog, as does Zach and others endowed with critical thinking capacity. Stick to your guns, brothers.</p>
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