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UFC 12/10 North Carolina event results
By Zach Arnold | December 10, 2008
Update: I assumed that Spike was airing this on a delay on the West Coast per usual, but much to my surprise they aired this live on the West Coast with no delay.
Speaking of the main event… where did Yoshida go after the KO? Did he get stretchered out? The cameras didn’t show…
Addendum: After the Koscheck interview, Spike TV went to a commercial. Coming back from the commercial, Mike Goldberg is doing a wrap-up and a set-up for showing a dark match. While panning the cage, on camera you can clearly see several doctors and attendants over Yoshida on the cage mat. I can’t tell if they were stretchering him out or what kind of medical assistance they were giving to him. I’m not down with UFC and Spike TV not updating their fans on what happened to Yoshida.
With 5 minutes left to go on the Spike TV telecast, Mike Goldberg and Joe Rogan are talking about Fightforthetroops.com. They talked about Mike Swick’s dominating win over Jonathan Goulet and they even showed the knockout of Yoshida a few times. Koscheck was shown signing autographs. You guessed it — there was no update on the medical condition of Yoshida. Nope. Nothing about the health and safety of the ‘random Japanese guy’ who main-evented the show. Goldberg went on-and-on about how what UFC presented tonight was ’sports, it’s not real life.’
Ivan Trembow wrote two articles in 2007 (here and here) about UFC’s handling of fighters knocked out on television/PPV.
There was a horrible irony about the way UFC handled the Yoshida situation on television. They dedicated the entire show to the Intrepid Fallen Heroes fund, which is a charity to help out soldiers who have suffered from brain trauma. Yet, Yoshida suffers what was no doubt a concussion (he was on the ground for at least seven minutes after the KO happened — Koscheck’s knockout was a traumatic blow to the head), and UFC acted as if he didn’t exist — no updates on his medical condition, no cameras to check on his situation, nothing. UFC wants to be treated like a real sport by the sports media, and yet they have shown over the course of several years that when a fighter gets brutally knocked out to not show what happened to the fighter afterwards or give updates on the fighter’s health status (unlike all pro-leagues like the NFL, NBA, etc.). When the Yoshida knockout happened on the Spike TV telecast, there was over 20+ minutes left of TV time to fill. UFC chose to air a dark match (Steve Bruno vs. Johnny Rees). When Goldberg and Rogan did their final wrap-up, they had over five minutes of TV time left. There was no mention of Yoshida whatsoever, other than the brutal knockout by Koscheck being shown over and over again.
I would be interested in seeing other MMA writers comment on this situation (either in favor or against UFC’s policy of the way they cover fighters brutally knocked out on TV/PPV).
There will be critics who will whine about me bringing up this issue, claiming that I’m manufacturing a ‘controversy.’ Nothing could be further from the truth. My thoughts here in this post was real-time commentary on a show that I was watching. If the best ‘defense’ someone online can come up to this situation is ‘you’re just looking to criticize UFC while they’re doing a charity show,’ then that’s a pretty weak defense.
Update: This UFC.com story says that Yoshida was stretchered out, and later added that he was released from the hospital. CBS Sports is reporting that Corey Hill is out for 12-18 months with a broken tibia. His fight is the first fight available for viewing at ufc.com.
For those of you claiming that I am ‘whining’ here, read this response.
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It’s hard to visualize Koscheck fighting Yoshida. I don’t know if it’s because Koshcheck’s never fought Asians or because Yoshida has a history of sending psychic waves to his opponents so they drop out of or throw fights.
Looking forward to seeing Yoshida guillotine choke Koscheck so hard he flops onto the ground, bald, and Yoshida stands up with a clump of multicoloured hair in his hand, screaming in triumph.
Koscheck/Yoshida & Wiman/Edagr interest me. I guess watching Cantwell to see if he can perform in the UFC. The rest of the main card and the entire undercard have no interest to me.
Zuffa is holding 3 cards in 10 days. WEC 37, Fight For Troops, & TUF Finale. Feels like a little bit of overkill…. Especially when there doesn’t seem to be enough talent to fill in all 3 cards….
Interesting card. None of the bouts have jazzed, but several have the potential to be damn good fights.
It looks like one of those cards that you are more excited about afterwards than you were going in.
Yoshida vs. Koscheck is a very good thermometer for Yoshida. Koscheck has some good wrestling to counter Yoshida’s cage controlling style. I think that’s a fight that will determine if Yoshida can even make a run for a title shot later on.
Farber v Fioravanti will be fight of the night. It isn’t a big name fight, but who cares.
[...] UFC “Fight For The Troops” line-up [...]
Sucks I’m 40 minutes away from this event and can’t attend…and No I’m not bidding on those 30 tickets.
Can’t wait for the McCulley/Sanchez super fight!!
hell yeah, McCulley and Sanchez is going to tbe crazy, both hungry and tough. it is hard to picture koscheck fighting/winning/losing against Yoshida, that is just a weird fight, coming off that loss to Alves, talk of him lealving the UFC, really weird fight for kos. i think wiman is going to get beat, as much as i like the basturd, i think edgar is too good, we’ll wee though.
Was there a visible size difference between Yoshida and Koscheck at the weigh-ins?
I have a feeling Yoshida will have a hard time with Koscheck’s strength and wrestling, but I’d love to be proven wrong.
Yoshida beats Koscheck
In other news - apparently Meltzer is going to be breaking the news story that UFC 91 broke the 1 million buy mark.
I will be the first to admit, I am both completely amazed and stand corrected!
George, don’t wee on me
45, nice to see you taking a little smack about the UFC.
Really I have not been excited about any of the cards Zuffa has put out in a while. I guess Brock/Randy had some interest but for whatever reason there has been a LOT of blah lately.
Gaijin— As Meltzer notes in the story, the UFC was also saying “one million buys” to anyone who would listen (and print it) after Jackson-Liddell. That ended up drawing 675,000 buys. In general, don’t believe any of the UFC’s PPV buyrate estimates until the final numbers are in from cable industry sources as opposed to UFC sources.
They were saying 1 mil buys until Jackson/Liddell wanted their % from the PPV sales.
If I donate $50 to the Fallen Fights fund, will they actually show a fight? 20 minutes so far and no fight.
45 you should know better by now to not watch these shows live…DVR it and start an hour or so late so you can fast forward to the fights. I’m starting right now.
It’s almost sad to see Samuel L. Jackson telling people to donate money…..and showing ZERO emotion, almost like he doesn’t care. It’s like his thought process was “Arrive. Read teleprompter. Cash check. Leave.”. Man “celebrities” suck!
And it’s funny that this show is a charity show for former troops who suffered from some brain injuries…….from a sport that has brain injuries and no medical insurance for fighters. Smell the hypocrisy!
Oh, and it’s fun to watch two fights in a row were the undefeated guys lose to journeymen fighters. You gotta love that.
Oh, and 45 Huddle? Tim Credeur was showing crappy striking (he won BTW). Was that because of “stance changes”? Or because he has NO punching skills whatsoever and was just winging windmills? I go with the later, but what do I know?
Mick Foley? We should be donating money for this brain damage.
As for the stance change… That had nothing to do with Tim. He is just a bad striker. Way to take my comments to the extreme. I think you missed the point, which is that even at the highest level of striking in MMA, the stance itself changes the dynamics of striking enough that it will never look as clean or crisp as boxing.
Goulet has the most exciting chin in all of MMA.
uh… They show a fight that starts off with a nut shot in the first 5 seconds?
I blame it on the groin shot - he never recovered
I blame it on Ben Saunders being a very good prospect.
One word: owned.
Good night of fights…now onto the main event: Lakers vs Suns.
Holy crap Yoshida was knocked out! That is a knock out of the year contender for sure! And I saw the Arlovski kayo over Roy Nelson! And look at that! No stance changes! How about that?
Sorry 45, I am going to bust your balls for a while over that.
Zach, what exactly do you expect the UFC to say about Yoshida? He’s not dead, so what is there to say?
He got KTFO. Probably got a concussion and looks like he also got his nose broken.
45, your Goulet comment is pure comedy. And spot on.
Zach…that’s really nothing new unfortunately. I remember being there live at whichever UFC had the James Irvin/Terry Martin & Tim Sylvia/Tra Telligman knockouts…both dudes got stretchered out, and were out hard. No update…we seriously thought Martin may have been the first UFC death. Dude was stiff like Matua.
The UFC did a classy thing tonight by raising money for the Intrepid Fallen Heroes Fund. Unfortunately, they continued their classless policy of how they treat fighters when they have just been brutally knocked out and are unconscious in the cage for an extended period of time.
The things that I wrote in 2007 after the UFC’s classless handling of Rashad Evans’ brutal knockout of Sean Salmon still hold true tonight:
This was a brutal night of fights. Ben Saunders knees, Cantwell’s armbar, and Kos’s KO were three of the most cringe-inducing finishes I’ve seen in months. Apparently, Corey Hill also broke a leg in the pre-lims.
I’m interested to see how much money the UFC manages to raise with this event. It’s nice to see the UFC dedicating a show to such a worthy cause.
Ed. — Dana White told Kevin Iole that over $4 million USD was raised.
Agree about the UFC’s handling of Yoshida’s KO. Its high time they improve their handling of nasty fighter injuries. They talk a big game about being less brutal than football, but you don’t see football hiding from the injuries that happen in its sport.
“They were saying 1 mil buys until Jackson/Liddell wanted their % from the PPV sales.” - Zack (VERY clever response to UFC Management)
ZACH with the ch and all - Great op ed.. and it doesn’t have to only be “mma writers” replying.
I think Yoshida (as in his pre-fight super double quotes -produced- “”interview”", said he wanted to show a good entertaining fight for the fans) was timid and wanted to throw and realized Koscheck was too quick.
He looked great in previous fights.. the whole night was a sham.
WHO THINKS they paid the fighters a “bonus” to order viewers to donate??
Another comment, after reading through the comments before my previous:
Regarding Garcia’s resignation, what is the role of the athletic commissions these days?
1) Newbie Refs (excuse the termanology, it fits) - like Josh Rosenthal (who maintains an awfully awkward quirk when informing fighters of the rules before a fight).
2) Judges
3) Rule enforcement - grabbing shorts, grabbing cage, and most importantly, shots to the back of the head during a flury, I think Swick may have thrown some close calls.
I want to know where the athletic commissions stand in the safety of fighters, obviously nowhere in the promoters broadcast!!
Thanks David. I was wondering who would be the first person to try to turn the charity aspect of this show into a negative remark about the UFC, and your comment about the UFC paying fighters a ‘bonus’ to tell viewers to donate will qualify you.
Not quite as inflammatory as I wanted, but I’ll take what comes.
The real story coming out of 2008 is the downfall of Japanese MMA. I’m not sure what is falling faster… Their organizations or talent. It use to be Japan, USA, and Brazil as the 3 major countries for talent. With recent performances by fighters in the WEC, Yoshida getting KO’d, and Aoki & Gomi losing…. It feels like the highest level of competition is no longer coming out of Japan.
Funny, the only people whining here are you and Ivan.
Head injuries are notoriously hard to deal with and diagnose. Other than saying “He’s not dead”, both of you have extremely unrealistic expectations of what doctors can reasonably and accurately release about a fighters condition 10 minutes after getting KTFO.
You mention the NFL, but it’s clear you’ve never watched a football game in your life if you really think injuries are announced immediately. Sometimes they announce them much later in the game, sometimes days later. Concussions, in particular, are usually NOT announced publicly.
no one’s asking for a thorough medical evaluation here, just some acknowledgement that the fighter is receiving attention as a show of respect
i also didn’t like cantwell celebrating about breaking an arm and saying that he always wanted to do that. that’s royce gracie levels of jerkness.
As far as UFC not showing guys on stretchers, I dont really have a problem.
Its certainly better than having situations like when Sylvia KTFO Tra Telligman and as he’s being stretchered out Mike Goldberg screams “Tra ‘TRAUMA!’ Telligman!!!” That was pretty classless.
And as for 45Douchebag’s comment about waning Japanese talent. I only have one thing to say: Typical.
Ivan and Zach,
I think you both have a valid point but I agree with Grape Knee High the only information that can be provided minutes after a knockout (or the brutal injuries of Corey Hill and Razak al-Hassan) is preliminary and presumptious.
I recall the knockout of fellow Texan Sammy Vasquez. Once the fight was over he was taken to the hospital and, although many were genuinely concerned for his health, it was hours before the severity of the injury was apparent.
What can we be told just after a brutal KO or injury? That the fighter is OK? That the fighter is not OK but sorry folks, we’re out of time?
I don’t know if there is an easy answer here. They certainly could show us the fighter being moved to a stretcher or carried out on the shoulders of his teammates but I believe without the context of an informed and reasonable commentary, both of which are impossible only moments after one of these events, the sight of a stretchered fighter is gratuitous and further open to derision and complaint.
Garp
txtestfest.com
I’m still a bit dumbfounded that the UFC would be the organization that would support the Fallen Heroes fund. I mean, they are currently trying to get funds to help out victims of traumatic brain injuries, yet we are trying to donate money by watching people give each other traumatic brain injuries. It kind of rubs me the wrong way, but whatever… it’s all for a good cause I suppose.
Yoshida is obviously hurt badly, and the UFC likely didn’t want it to be a huge deal as they were pushing the Troops fund all over the place. Yoshida basically took a damn “FINISH HIM” shot right in the kisser after he was already KO’d standing.
Sucks for Yoshida, man. He’s a decent fighter.
Last night I finally realized that MMA is not for me. I thank Steve Cantwell and Ben Saunders grotesque post-fight remarks for bringing me to that realization. They both exhibited a lack of basic human respect for their opponents…who were being treated for serious injuries behind them as they bragged and let all of us know how macho they are. I am done. No class or respect. Dana White should require a basic level of professionalism….it separates us from the apes.
Last night was incredibly brutal. Especially Corey Hill’s tibia breaking like that. When Corey Hill recovers he should move to 170. He is way too thin for 155. Having a huge reach at 155 won’t do you any good if you have weak legs. I knew that his skinny legs would be a problem at 155 but I never imagined before that he would break his leg in two with a checked leg kick.
Man what was up with the brutality of this event? Wolff getting a huge knot on his forehead after the knees (hopefully no brain damage), Cantwell breaking Al-Hassan’s arm, Corey Hill’s tibia snapping in two and Yoshida being KO’d brutally and having to go out on a stretcher. So much for MMA being so incredibly safe compared to boxing. And all this happened in an event that raised money for the Intrepid Fallen Heroes Fund.
I think my comments on Japanese talent are spot on. It was a hotbed for the sport for so long, but lately it hasn’t been doing much:
1. Kid Yamamoto: Hasn’t fought in 2008
2. Yoshiyuki Yoshida: KO’d by Koscheck
3. Hiroyuki Takaya: Beaten by Swanson & Garcia
4. Akitoshi Tamura: Submitted by Fabiano.
5. Takanori Gomi: Beaten by Goylaev.
6. Shinya Aoki: TKO’d by Hansen
7. Misaki, Okami, & Akiyama: All solid fighters, but have done relatively nothing in all of 2008.
8. Tatsuya Kawajiri: Lost to Alvarez.
Not to mention the organizations themselves. I have always thought of Shooto being overrated, but at least some fans could hold onto their lighter weight divisions. The WEC is now the central hotbed for lighter fighters. Sengoku always seems one show away from going out of business. And DREAM isn’t exactly doing Pride like shows.
I don’t think England is there yet, but within a few years, it will have surpased Japan as the 3rd most influential country in the sport.
[...] said the event was ‘marred’ by these endings. Zach Arnold was annoyed by the fact that injured fighters were carted off the screen, never to be mentioned [...]
Indeed…it’s not like they can diagnose what happened in 5-10 minutes while still in the cage.
I’ve watched plenty of football, basketball, and baseball games when injuries have occurred. I’ve watched many boxing fights where something traumatic has happened. In each case, the network that the fight was being broadcasted on stayed with the injury. They didn’t cut away from what was happening on the field or in the ring and they didn’t purposely ignore what happened to the athlete injured.
Take for instance last July when boxer Oscar Diaz was fighting in San Antonio (home town area) and he collapsed after trying to get up off his stool at the beginning of a round in his boxing match (which aired on ESPN2). Diaz collapsed and ended up going into a coma. ESPN2 (lead by Joe Tessitore & Teddy Atlas) stayed the entire time with Diaz, from the minute they put him on the stretcher to when he was led out of the arena and to a local hospital. Tessitore promised viewers that he and Atlas would keep them updated throughout the night.
In the NFL, when someone gets carted off the field, it is shown on TV. The announcers show the players huddling up in prayer, the fans standing in silence, and then the player being carted off the field.
You didn’t even bother to address what has become an unfortunate UFC situation where a fighter got viciously knocked out and end up getting stretchered out of the arena, only for fans to not see this take place and not get any further updates on the health of the fighter from the commentators (no statements of “so and so went to a local hospital for further examination”). On last night’s telecast, UFC showed the knockout of Yoshida several times to close the show and yet didn’t discuss the fact that he was stretchered out or taken to a local hospital. The UFC’s only documented attempt so far to address the health of Yoshida is a short line in an official web site report. That’s it (as far as I am aware).
I don’t think it’s necessary to have the cameras dwell on an injury. Are there any sort of HIPPA concerns or anything involved in this either? When you’ve got a three hour baseball game or something, it’s reasonable to expect that if someone who got hit with a ball in the first inning, you’re probably going to get some sort of update by the end of the game. Main event late in a charity fight event? Not so much.
Ignoring it is bad, but obsessing over it seems a bit much too. Expecting more than “Yoshida took a nasty hit, doctors from the boxing authority are making sure he’s taken care of, and when we have more information, you’ll find an update on the UFC website.”
They didn’t give us that, so I’ll ding them for that much, but no more.
While I stand by my statement that the UFC needs to do a lot better when addressing injuries on the live telecast, the number of injuries ironically reinforced my view of MMA as one of the safest contact sports in the world.
I mean, last night’s card was basically as brutal as the sport gets, and after the dust is cleared all we really got were a couple broken limbs and a concussion. Yoshida got knocked out as badly as anybody ever gets knocked out in the sport, and he went home from the hospital that night. The sport is just a lot safer than boxing in terms of brain injuries.
Also pertaining to this Fight Night…. Winner of Fight of the Night was for Wiman/Miller. This was more ground war then standup brawl. Showing once again that the FOTN Award doesn’t have to go to a pure brawl.
December 10th, 2008 at 4:03 pm Zack Says:
They were saying 1 mil buys until Jackson/Liddell wanted their % from the PPV sales.
++++++++++++++
Not true. The Couture situation showed us that the ppv money starts going to the fighters a couple of months after the event, over the course of months.
It is not that the UFC suddenly changed the numbers when they had to write a check. They pay the money as it comes in from the various cable companies.
I remember them predicting it would do one million, but don’t remember them actually saying it did one million. It was a while ago, so I might be wrong.
But there is no reality to what you are suggesting.
We saw a lingering camera and stretchering with Johnny Morton in K-1. No thank you, it is unnecessary to see that.
I agree it might have been nice to get a “He’s okay” message at the end of the night, but the lack of it certainly is nothing over which to get one’s panties all in a bunch.
Steve Cantwell acting like a douche after his victory is more worthy of discussion than the Yoshida non-issue.
While it may not have been necessary to cover the aftermath of the knockout in its entirety, by not addressing the fighter’s condition of showing any images of Yoshida the UFC certainly opens itself to accusations of obfuscating the violent nature of their product. A shot of doctors examining him and admission by th announcers of the ongoing situation would have been very appropriate.
The problem is that the company is acting like they have something to hide, and this only fuels the fires of the sport’s opposition. As has been stated MMA is very safe in comparison to other full contact sports and to ignore serious situations as they occur damages the UFC’s credibility.
Outside of this website, I’ve never seen the lack of health updates brought up as an issue before. To the vast majority of the fans, as well as the mainstream media, this issue is not seen as a concern.
Comments like “this only fuels the fires of the sport’s opposition” or the general belief that this is hurting the UFC’s image are exaggerating the situation. You can argue the issue from a theoretical business ethics standpoint, but the actual PR implications of this issue is mostly negligible at this point.
I am disappointed, but not particularly surprised, to see how easily so many people can justify to themselves the classless way that the UFC handles it when a fighter is brutally knocked out and unconscious for an extended period of time. The way they handle those situations is unlike any other sport in the United States, and yet here Zach is getting criticized as if he’s the one who is being unreasonable or suggesting something out of the ordinary.
Many of the arguments were addressed in my editorial two years ago about it supposedly shining a light on the negative aspects of the sport unless you ignore the unconscious fighter’s existence:
“Again, even if there was literally no new information to give before they went off the air, they could read two sentences about how fighter safety is the most important thing in the UFC, and that there is a great team of doctors helping Salmon right now, and that there will be updates on the UFC web site later tonight as they learn more about his condition. (Yes, that would have been a plug for their web site, but when it’s a legitimate news story, it’s no different than ABC News saying, “We’ll have more on this developing story throughout the night on our web site.”)
That would have been the decent thing to do. It wouldn’t be “shining a light on the negative aspects of the sport,” because the fact is that viewers could see with their own eyes, whether the UFC acknowledged it or not, that there was a team of doctors in the background trying to help a fighter who was still not moving. All the lack of acknowledgment did was make the UFC look bad for not acknowledging it.
A brutal knockout, in and of itself, does not make the sport of mixed martial arts “look bad.” Brutal knockouts are going to happen in any combat sport, though MMA has a far better safety record than boxing. Serious injuries like those that could have been suffered by Salmon are going to happen in any contact sport, though MMA has a far better safety record than football.
What makes the sport of MMA look bad is when a fighter has been knocked unconscious for several minutes and the promotion in three separate cases doesn’t even acknowledge the unconscious fighters’ condition.”
Chief,
It could go the other way too though. If the UFC starts insisting that anyone that gets knocked out IS OK FOLKS, NOTHING TO SEE HERE! Then they end up being Pollyannas at best or they get the nasty surprise of someone being genuinely fucked up even though they’re walking wounded at worst.
Reporting that someone is ok when they aren’t is worse than not saying anything in my book, but apparently my callous North Eastern ways are rejected by some of the other loud voices here.
Jeremy— I don’t think anyone is suggesting that they happy-face it say, “Nothing to see here, folks, everything is okay.” What’s being suggested is that they treat it just like every other sport in the United States treats similar situations, instead of continuing their classless policy of simply pretending that the unconscious fighter no longer exists. The whole argument of, “What do you want them to say?” is a paper-thin argument that is quickly contradicted by every other sport in America.
45…you’re either a troll or just an idiot. We could do a rundown of all the US based guys who lost this year too. Doesn’t prove anything except that people win and lose fights. That’s what happens in MMA. Big deal.
“It feels like the highest level of competition is no longer coming out of Japan.”
Ah, so the highest level of competition at one time was coming out of Japan? Good to see you admit that.
By the way,I’m sure you don’t want many fights outside of the UFC and are just a fight finder nerd, but Gomi got robbed in his loss last month. Don’t worry, I didn’t expect you to actually watch it or anything though.
I saw the Gomi fight and thought he lost. It was hardly a robbery and I think 45 has a point, Japan is way down the pecking order for top level MMA talent.
Agree with 45 to an extent. It definitely seems like the Japanese dominance of many of the lighter weight classes is ending. The emergence of the WEC and the consolidation of North American (as well as foreign) talent in the lower weights has much to do with that.
Disagree with some of your examples. I think your ‘examples’ are more or less meaningless though, and not really indicative of anything other than how individual fighters perform, not how the country as a whole performs.
I also find England overtaking Japan as a fighter-producing country pretty laughable. Japan currently has a dozen or so top ten quality fighters with more on the way. England only has two fringe top tenners (Bisping and Hardy), with no real sign of any up-and-comers. Cage Rage or Ultimate Fight UK (forget what they renamed themselves) is a shell of its former self, Cage Warriors barely runs any shows, and FX3 only has a few shows a year. The talent hasn’t really been there, nor have the shows, so I don’t think your prediction will be very accurate.
Finally, people need to quit calling 45 names and insulting him. You may not like the guy or his opiinions, but I can’t recall the last time he called anyone a ‘douchebag’ or an ‘idiot’ for saying their piece.
#1 Heavyweight: Russian
#1 Light Heavyweight: American
#1 Middleweight: Brazilian
#1 Welterweight: Canadian
#1 Lightweight: American
#1 Featherweight: American
#1 Bantamweight: American
#1 Flyweight: Japanese
Telling from that, you can say that the Japanese aren’t doing as well as they used to since they don’t hold the crown at lightweight, featherweight and bantamweight anymore.
The Japanese only hold the flyweight spot, which is a very rare weight class in America. Palace Fighting Championships is one of the rare few North American promotions that holds flyweight fights.
It really shocks me that the WEC is winning the head-to-head war with Shooto right now. If this were a year ago, I would have laughed at anyone who suggested WEC > Shooto. But now it seems like 135 and 145 are really coming together at WEC. It’s unfortunate that Japanese MMA is losing its lustre. FEG and DSE have their corruption and freak shows so in a sense they deserve bad karma but Shooto always presented a more classy, sporting competitive style in Japan. So it’s sad to see that they aren’t what they used to be.
The UFC should not treat injuries like every other sport.
Before MMA and it’s popularity, people were saying the NFL was too violent, because they see guys getting carted off the field.
Because they see guys lay motionless for 10 minutes.
Instead of focusing on that, the UFC is doing the right thing and going about its business.
The guys are being taken care of…does the viewer need to know?
Ivan (and I think he’s a good writer) is straight up assuming, when he says that the “What makes the sport of MMA look bad is when a fighter has been knocked unconscious for several minutes and the promotion in three separate cases doesn’t even acknowledge the unconscious fighters’ condition.”
Nah, what makes MMA look bad IS the knockouts, IS the blood, IS the injuries that occur in nearly every fight. But that’s a part of the sport. That’s why critics hate on it in the first place.
Fans understand that. So lets move on to the next fight.
Yeah, it’s all fine and good if the fighter is okay…but what if it’s serious? There could be a serious injury in every show.
How does that look to viewers and critics if the UFC discusses it later in the show?
The thing is…MMA has that bloodsport stigma. Other sports don’t.
That’s the main issue here
There’s no sugarcoating injuries.
“Nah, what makes MMA look bad IS the knockouts, IS the blood, IS the injuries that occur in nearly every fight. But that’s a part of the sport. That’s why critics hate on it in the first place.”
Using that to justify the UFC not updating viewers on Yoshida’s condition (or Telligman’s condition, or Martin’s condition, or Salmon’s condition, or Reiner’s condition, or Radev’s condition) makes absolutely no sense, given that they replayed those knockouts dozens and dozens of times between them. If the argument was that the knockouts themselves make the sport look bad, then why would they endlessly replay the knockouts?
What looks bad is not even acknowledging the unconscious fighter or updating their condition for the rest of the broadcast, all the while replaying the knockout endlessly and going on and on about what an amazing knockout it was.
It would be like a huge hit by a linebacker in the NFL resulting in somebody being unconscious on the ground for over seven minutes, and they never acknowledge the unconscious athlete’s condition at any time, but they do endlessly replay the hit itself and marvel at what a great hit it was.
You will not see this in any other sport in the United States.
Ivan and Zack are right. Zero update on Yoshida after him getting completely starched was classless. If he’s sitting up and talking and can’t make it to the decision so be it, but if the guy just mysteriously dissappears from the decision all you have to say is: Yoshida is still unconscious and being treated by the best doctors in the business folks - we’ll give an update as it becomes available - check UFC.com later for a more in detail report. You don’t have to put the camera in his face and show his REM sleep or dwell on it but acknowledge the guy exists and don’t pretend that he has just walked out of the cage before the decision happened like they did their best to do.
dave2: I think one reason that the WEC is getting one up on Shooto promoters is that they are, more or less, the first org to really consolidate the talent in the BW & FW divisions in North America. GC and KOTC had champs in those divisions, but they never really built up a strong level of talent. Now you’ve arguably got most of that talent under one tent in the WEC and can bring in foreign talent as well.
And of course there is also the money issue. WEC may not pay astronomically high salaries, but the guys fighting in Shooto aren’t exactly making mad cash either.
Shooto’s divisions also suffer from fighters moving on to bigger orgs (like half the top ten LWs in the world, many FWs too). Their BW division took a big hit when Matsune decided to be perpetually injured and Hokazono decided to retire.
Ivan,
What is bad is Steve Cantwell bragging that he’s been waiting for a long time to get the chance to break someone’s arm.
Compared to this, the Yoshida thing is a non-issue.
But, of course, since Cantwell is not the evil robber baron Zuffa, Ivan lets it slide, even though in terms of PR it was 10 times worse.
Ivan, I only watch one other sport in the United States on anything like a regular basis, and add baseball on an even more occasional basis to that, so I’ll have to take your repeated word that the way that UFC does it isn’t the normal way that things are done.
Thanks for letting us all know just how important it is to you that UFC conform to the norm though.
dave2 is correct. and it’s just not the top guys in each division. Japan has very few Top 10 fighters in Heavyweight through Lightweight…. And they are losing ground fast in Feather & Bantam.
As for the UK coming close to Japan in a few years… I was mostly talking about the type of events being run in the country.
What Cantwell said was completely classless as well, but that’s not something that is a company policy and that has happened a half-dozen times now. Also, lol at Jeremy attempting to make it an issue of conformity or non-conformity.
(because the term “conformity” generally has a negative connotation, hence the notion that the UFC’s policy on unconscious fighters is, in part, because of them being “non-conformist”)
No, I just like saying things that rhyme.
Is that a crime?
lol, fair enough
[...] As far as I could tell (based on what I watched of the TUF Finale), there was no update on Yoshiyuki Yoshida at all. I bring this up because Mike Goldberg thanked the fans at the beginning of the telecast for the Fight for the Troops special, mentioned about the charity that money raised went to (brain trauma victims), and left it at that. I first thought about Yoshida when Goldberg did this intro, and was quickly reminded of it when Anthony Johnson managed to knock out Kevin Burns with a left high-kick. Thankfully for Burns, he was able to recover and stand back up for the winner’s announcement by Bruce Buffer. If Burns would have had to been stretchered out of the cage, would UFC have shown it? Not that I guess it matters, since practically no other MMA web sites even touched upon the way UFC/Spike TV covered the aftermath of Yoshida’s knockout at the hands of Josh Koscheck. [...]
[...] Sports or sports entertainment?: The way the UFC handled the situation after the “Fight for the Troops” main event between Koscheck and Yoshida brought a lot of critics to the scene. Koscheck knocked out Yoshida with two crushing blows that left the 34-year-old Japanese veteran motionless on the canvas for minutes. During the remainder of the broadcast, the announcing team did not provide any updates on the condition of the fallen judoka. [...]