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Audio: UFC’s Dana White loses it during Sacramento radio interview
By Zach Arnold | November 20, 2008
UFC President now switching tactics and public stance with Jon Fitch?
Remember what Kevin Iole quoted Dana White as saying about Jon Fitch?
“Affliction is still out there trying to build its company. Let [Fitch] go work with them. Let him see what he thinks of those [expletives]. [Expletive] him. These guys aren’t partners with us. [Expletive] them. All of them, every last [expletive] one of them.”
Yep. Now, check out this radio interview that White did on Wednesday night:
“It doesn’t have to do with Jon Fitch either,” continued White. “I like Jon Fitch. I’ve never had a bad word with Jon Fitch. The problem is with the idiots that run AKA. I won’t use any names; the idiots know who they are.”
But in expressing a big picture concern that extends beyond Fitch, White began to introduce the current state of the economy as a reason why he doesn’t understand why fighters are more agreeable to terms of deals that are being presented.
I think it’s fair to say that White didn’t expect AKA’s representation to say anything other than ‘yes sir’ to him on any business deal, and like the schoolyard bully… once you punch the bully in the mouth, the bully isn’t so tough any more.
“It’s like all the media wants to jump up and go ‘Oh the UFC! The UFC!” Shut up! Shut up. Every one of you shut your mouth. Mind your business. Here’s the deal: the reality is we’re working our asses off to make this thing bigger and better for everybody. The world is a very dangerous place right now with this economy.”
Naturally, one would not think that Dana White would be losing any sleep over Jon Fitch. The sales of UFC’s upcoming video game will not be determined by whether or not Jon Fitch is in the game in the first place.
There is something remarkable to be said here about Dana White and the statements he’s made the past couple of months. Here is a man coming off of a PPV weekend that did $4.8 million USD at the gate in Las Vegas (currently a ghost town), with a brand new UFC Heavyweight champion in Brock Lesnar who the media loves, and Randy Couture (who got into a protracted legal battle with Zuffa) got beat.
If you buy all the media spin coming out of this weekend’s event, how could things be bad in the world of UFC? After all, several media outlets were blushing about how UFC was having great business success when no one else is during this current economic down cycle.
What is it that has set White off? Is it the mediocre TV ratings that The Ultimate Fighter is drawing right now on Spike TV? Is it the report by Dave Meltzer that UFC 90 (Anderson Silva vs. Patrick Cote) did an estimated 300,000 PPV buys? Is the cause of stress the big amount of money that Station Casinos currently lost in Q3 ’08? Is it financial trouble due to the outstanding loans/revolving line of credit that Zuffa took out to finance their massive expansion operation into Europe? Is Dana as paranoid as Vince McMahon is right now and scared to death that Fitch may open up the flood gates for other fighters to challenge UFC’s authority?
Excuses, excuses
The sad part about Dana White’s media blowback towards Jon Fitch is that he’s falling into the same trap that he’s mocked Bob Arum for falling into the past. “The economy is bad,” “agents are bad,” “they don’t want to be our partners.”
The rationale that the UFC President gives about how fighters or agents who don’t agree with what he says are not ‘his partners’ is amusing. You want your fighters to be your ‘partners’? Give them an ownership stake in Zuffa LLC. That’s how you can make them a business partner. Want to pay them to fight for you only? Then financially treat them as an employee and not as an independent contractor.
This situation is sad because it seems like such a self-inflicted wound on the part of UFC management. Who knew that mild-mannered Jon Fitch would cause the UFC President to freak out in a similar manner to when he faced a labor dispute with Randy Couture?
In a USA Today interview, White is back at it attacking ‘agents’ in the business:
And you know what? This is more than just AKA. There’s other camps out there that we’re having trouble doing business with. And at the end of the day, this is a business. We run a business just like any other business. You come in, you do your job with your company and you get paid.
And the guys that don’t want to do business with you — then go work somewhere else. It’s as easy as that. You don’t have to do business with us. There’s other people out there you can do it with.
So, White is not only railing against agents, he’s publicly laying down a marker against other fight teams by essentially saying to not fight with him on business deals.
A non-exclusive merchandising deal?
Is this an attempt to muddy the waters by Dana White?
No, no. There’s no lifetime deal on merchandising. The merchandising deal is non-exclusive. They can go out and do whatever they want to do, whenever they want to do it. with whoever they want to, and we haven’t pressured anyone to sign that thing. That merchandise deal was an offer — at the end of the day, we’re trying to come up with new ways to make more money for us and for the fighters. That’s what that deal was for.
Up until this point, every media reporter (both pro-UFC and anti-UFC) has basically claimed that the merchandising agreements call for for a fighter to give up their image/likeness for in perpetuity, meaning never-ending. Is White telling the truth here or not?
Robert Joyner at MMA Payout sums up Dana White’s latest actions in one word: brazen. If the Elite XC debacle managed to bring agents like Monte Cox and Ken Pavia together, then I wonder what kind of unity will (or will not) be fostered based on White’s actions.
UFC caught in a shell game with THQ?
Sam Caplan is reporting that UFC is dealing with some issues with THQ involving exclusive rights to all their fighters in terms of image rights and likenesses:
It appears that the UFC may have gotten itself into a bit of a predicament as sources indicate that THQ, who is producing promotion’s upcoming video game release “UFC Undisputed 2009,” operated under the auspices that they had exclusive rights to the likenesses of all fighters on the UFC roster. Five Ounces of Pain has been informed that THQ was none too pleased upon learning that rival Electronic Arts has commenced work on an MMA game of its own and that plans are in motion to involve a great deal of recognizable fighters. The sources have indicated that in addition to names such as Randy Couture, Tito Ortiz, and Frank Shamrock that known UFC fighters could potentially be featured as well.
The fact that THQ had been promised exclusive access to the likeness of the entire UFC roster when the UFC wasn’t in a position to make such an assurance is believed to be a reason why the promotion has acted in haste in regards to demanding its fighters sign over their likenesses for “Undisputed.”
Previous posts:
- Flashback: Rob Maysey talks about Zuffa’s new marketing rights agreement
- Report: Jon Fitch released by UFC
Topics: Media, MMA, UFC, Zach Arnold | 77 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
This whole situation shows how much more the UFC has in common with the WWE business model wise than with boxing or the major sports leagues. In boxing games, EA negotiates with the fighters directly, not the promoters. In team sports games, companies negotiate with the player unions. But for the WWE and UFC games, they negotiate with the promotion. Heck, Dana White even uses the same publisher that WWE does to release their game!
But at least the WWE doesn’t make these guys sign exclusive lifetime likeness clauses. Can you imagine if the WWE still owned the exclusive likeness of Brock Lesnar? Would Dana still say “it’s only business” if only the WWE could profit from Brock Lesnar’s likeness? 🙂
It will be VERY interesting to see who blinked first in regards to the new talks between the UFC & AKA. If it was AKA I’ll be disappointed because I was hoping that this latest gaffe on Dana White’s part would stimulate talks between what remains of EliteXC, Viacom, Affliction & maybe even Strikeforce to combine their assets & efforts to form an organization that could offer an alternative to the UFC.
Obviously the EliteXC experiment failed because they chose really shady people to head the company, but if they took whatever decent parts remain of that outfit & merged it with Affliction ( & maybe Strikeforce depending on what their current deal with NBC is ) along with Affliction’s working relationship with M-1, they’d have an attractive package to offer CBS & Showtime.
I believe that it’s still a good, viable idea to do so even if Dana & the boys do retain their relationship with AKA. Because it’s just a matter of time before the absolute power that Dana operates with causes him to do something else outrageous.
I’m FAR from being any sort of a business wiz, but there must be a good reason that they bust up monopolies.
And here come the other fighter managers to kiss the UFC’s ass: http://mmajunkie.com/news/13298/american-top-team-boss-claims-no-concerns-with-videogame-exclusivity.mma
Saying that Fitch isn’t popular enough to earn more consideration for contract negotiations is humorous when taking into account that it’s half because Zuffa has completely failed to promote him worth two shits. The answer? Sign away your lifeltime image rights to those same people, of course! Likely it hurts Fitch more than the UFC to make the stand, but that doesn’t change the fact that anyone arguing for Zuffa in this case with what is known and doesn’t work for them is being very willfully ignorant.
On a related note, as long as the sport of MMA continues to grow & it doesn’t suddenly take a big hit in it’s popularity over the next couple/few years, I think a union of some sort is inevitable.
Many people use the example of boxing as their argument against the likelihood of such a union forming. But, what they fail to realize is that collectively MMA athletes are much better educated than boxers. Especially with so many of them coming from an NCAA wrestling background.
This isn’t a slam against boxers or boxing because that’s the world I come from. But, though it’s becoming less of a fact than it once was, many fighters come from impoverished backgrounds & limited formal educations. Add that to the way that pro boxing is structured with hundreds of different promoters employing said fighters & their being a ridiculous amount of governing bodies all with their own titles …
It’s just always been too difficult to get everyone on the same page.
But, rather than each fighter being from a different gym & each one of them being represented by a different manager with all of them being out for themselves as in boxing, MMA fighters are much more into the team concept. Which, when combined with their better educations will eventually lead to a union of some sort IMO.
And, I think that the powers that be at the UFC knows it & are terrified by it’s inevitability. That’s why we have Dana White trying to strong arm fighters & their representatives now why he still can & why he’s so critical about fighters like Uriah Faber & others becoming involved in their own business affairs outside of the UFC.
Face reality Boys and Girls, this is what happens everyday in the corporate world. Nothing in College or University that will prepare you for one thing: Real World Experience.
There’s seems to be a lot of whining on this thread, especially by socialist sympathizers who want to spread the wealth. The UFC is no different from a typical Fortune 500 company. They’re protecting their interests and forwarding their business objectives with a bullish demeanor.
If you want to get ahead in the business world, you have not choice but to be RUTHLESS. This is why Dana White is driving a Ferrari, while others are stuck paying for their mortgages, whining on blog threads and living paycheck to paycheck. The UFC is simply moving forward and maintaining a near monopoly. Dana may be crude with his statements, but his language is no different from what goes on behind closed doors in a corporate office.
As a successful business person myself, I need to make choices that benefits my endeavors and brings more black to my balance book. You have no choice but to be Ruthless and destroy the competition or risk getting eaten by someone else.
Sure, MMA fans and fighters want to see the UFC spread the wealth. However, they’re not the ones signing the checks or investing millions of dollars in a business (therby assuming all the financial risk). This is why business ownership has its advantages and disadvantages. And this is why some people get ahead, while others get stuck in life.
Overall, unless they have better negotiation leverage, a stake in ownership or pursue additional means of income, a majority of fighters will continue to fall prey to the UFC Juggernaut.
And I really have no problem with it.
Fitch and UFC kissed and made up. This must really ruin Ivan’s day. Down with the evil empire! =)
@Huddle
“All EA needs is Tito Ortiz’s name for the game and it will sell very well.”
Acclaim thought that “Legends of Wrestling” would sell well, too. And they had arguably bigger names in Hulk Hogan, Bret Hart and The Legion of Doom.
It’s the brand that sells…
“All EA needs is Tito Ortiz’s name for the game and it will sell very well.”
That’s the most preposterous line I’ve heard all day.
Dana White’s temper tantrum gives us great insight into the mindset of the business/corporate/industrial tycoons in American history. It’s free enterprise for me, but not for thee!
I’m intelligent, I’m smart, I’m hardworking, but dammit, my station isn’t garaunteed, because I have to get up everyday and compete! I have to work too damn hard! It’s not fair! It’s outrageous that I can lose my important place in life.
Unlike the oil, steel, banking industries, that bribed the government to help them against their competion. Dana has no one else to go to. He’s facing terrifying feeling that he’ll have to work hard everyday, that life won’t be predictable, stress will always be with him.
Thank you Dana! What an ass!
Dana White is such a mark!
He really believes that his fighters should just accept his greatness, generosity and, good will!
In reality, it’s market pressures that are slapping his bald head. It’s fun to watch him squirm. He should act more like typical corporate heads, stoic, at least in public.
The suppliers, the fighters and, their representatives, however, aren’t that impressed.
They want what’s best for them and, should act in their own enlightened self-interest.
Can anyone have a problem with that?
According to Dave Meltzer, Fitch & Wellisch are back in the UFC.
http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/11/20/jon-fitch-claims-dana-white-is-not-telling-the-whole-story-about-mike-swick-accuses-the-ufc-of-strong-arm-tactics-during-negotiations/
Great interview with Jon Fitch. He talks about:
– How Swick’s deal is different
– How White strong armed them
– How it was his decision, not his managements to not sign the deal originally
I’m not sure if Dana White can’t just do business properly, or if he plays bad cop to Fertitta’s good cop. I really think it is the later of the two.
Well he signed so that means his lifetime video game likeness rights are with Zuffa now right? Zuffa bullies their way to getting what they want again. That clause would be shot down though if tried in court. The question though is whether fighters in the future who want to appear on another video game are going to want to go through an expensive, long drawn out process in court to fight Zuffa on this.
“As a successful business person myself,”
Yeah, I call bullshit on this one. You really think any of us are impressed with whatever bullshit you are trying to spew to us? Successful business person…..please! I am going to have to throw toilet paper at you, you are that full of shit.
My newest article about this situation is up now at http://www.ivansblog.com/2008/11/fear-intimidation-and-making-examples.html
The headline is, “Fear, Intimidation, and Making Examples Out of People: UFC Wins Power Struggle, Fighters Give UFC Lifetime Rights to Their Likenesses”
The fighters & their camps may be losing these little fights now, but I’ve got to believe that them & their representatives are keeping a tally. And, when the time is right ( whether it’s next year or five years down the line ) they’ll collectively take a stand.
Isn’t that how labor unions always form? With the slow build up of various beefs against the employer, a few stands here & there snuffed out by management, then secret meetings by the employees, until they have enough numbers & good enough representation to make a big stand that threatens to do the employer serious financial damage should they stop work.
It’ll happen, especially if the growth of the sport begins to attract the attention of agents involved in the representation of athletes in other big time sports.
The money might not be right quite yet as far as what the fighters are earning to stimulate that interest from said agents, but when it is, they’ll sniff it out & come calling …
Jim— I’d like to think that would happen, but this was as good of an opportunity as any, and everyone ran for cover.
Also, there is a high-profile sports agency in the sport now, representing Georges St. Pierre, and the UFC promptly clarified what it thinks about this by saying in an interview with the Canadian Press that “all of these guys [agents] are pukes.”
“Acclaim thought that “Legends of Wrestling” would sell well, too. And they had arguably bigger names in Hulk Hogan, Bret Hart and The Legion of Doom.”
That’s a bad example because so many prospective buyers knew that Legends of Wrestling was going to be the horrible game that it was. The buzz on that game was very bad even from the early previews. Anyone who picked up a video game magazine or read a video game web site, even before the game was released, was likely to know how much that game sucked.
That is very unlikely to the case with an EA-developed MMA game, although of course you never know.
“That is very unlikely to the case with an EA-developed MMA game, although of course you never know.”
Not even EA (who are even more of a dastardly monopoly than Dana White or Vince McMahon can EVER dream of being) aren’t immune to cranking out mediocre games. Just play “Facebreaker” and I DARE you to find more than about three decent things to say about that game!
Legends of Wrestling had a sweet roster. But like Ivan said, the game itself sucked. That’s why it failed. Acclaim wasn’t very good at making pro wrestling games. The only thing that Acclaim has on THQ is that the Smackdown! series is more arcade-like whereas the Acclaim games on the Playstation were more simulation-like. Fire Pro Wrestling is the absolute best though it’s not licensed.
An EA-developed MMA game I don’t think will be any worse than the THQ game. EA’s Fight Night series is very arcadey but the same can be said about THQ’s Smackdown! series and the PRIDE FC video game. I hate it when EA and THQ don’t strive for realism in their games. In a boxing/MMA game, I want the fighting mechanics to be realistic and I want the career mode to be realistic as well. The career mode sucked in Fight Night Round 3 and in all the MMA games up until now.
All the marks who think that the EA game will be good, ask your self this: would you buy an MMA game with Frank Shamrock, Scott Smith, Robbie Lawler, and no UFC fighters?
If you say yes, then either you have a lot of money or your hate for the UFC has clouded your judgment.
I should also add that it was a hypothetical question, since this rumor has a 99% chance of being false as EA actually have business managers who know a bad deal when they see it.
Chuck, whether or not Lester is a “successful business man” or not, your immediately discounting his valid points just show how naive you are.
Do you really think Steve Jobs and Bill Gates became enormously successful because they overpaid their employees and treated their employees like cuddly little teddy bears?
Ruthless is a word commonly used to describe most successful businessmen.
Did you know that psychopaths and people with antisocial personality disorder are over-represented among Fortune 500 business executives? This is well documented and shouldn’t surprise anyone. That’s why successful businessmen are often so ruthless. Does this mean that society should tolerate psychopathic and antisocial behavior from corporate executives? No.
Our society has the right to regulate their activities, just as they do ours, through laws. And I’m pretty darn positive that if you took a UFC contract to court, this clause and some others would be shot down. What the “don’t cross dana” crowd is suggesting is that the whistle blowers in the blogosphere and media just shut up and not bring attention to these things, which could lead to the government getting involved. Though a lot of Pro-Zuffa fans tend to be Gung Ho Ayn Randian types so it doesn’t surprise me that many take the “shut up, how dare you go against Dana” approach. Unless of course we’re talking about Pro Elite. Then government intervention is all fine and dandy then in the eyes of these people.
“Ruthless is a word commonly used to describe most successful businessmen.”
Damn Grape, you are attacking me left and right today!
Trust me, I know how big-business people are. I was just going after Lester for his “I am better than you” attitude over his actual opinion on this matter. If we were talking about boxing, and I interjected my stance with “As a talented boxer myself…” wouldn’t you and other people attack me for a comment like this? I would totally deserve it!
Cyph;
About an MMA game with Frank Shamrock, Robbie Lawler, et al. The thing is if that game would turn out good. I think most of us would buy it if it was good, over if it had our favorite fighters in it. If you check out game reviews for an EA MMA game, then you check out reviews for the upcoming UFC game, and you see the EA game gets mostly eights and nines out of ten, and the UFC game gets mostly five and sixes out of ten, would you still get the UFC game, only because of the brand name? Sure it would sell better, but would that make it a better game? FUCK NO!!!!!!!
As Dave2 was saying, the Fire Pro Wrestling games are the GREATEST wrestling games ever, and they are in 2D and no licensed wrestlers (real guys but their names changed to avoid copyright bullshit). It’s all about quality, or at least it should be…
The bottom line is that the UFC got the AKA guys to sign the video game deal. LOL at anyone thinking that Dana “lost it” because he was so surprised that Fitch “fought back”. Ultimately, Fitch and every other AKA fighter out there caved in on this issue, and it was probably smart for them to do that. The economy IS bad. The number of competing promotions at the level of the UFC IS going to remain small. Dana and the Fertittas merely played “bad guy–good guy” to pressure the AKA management into giving them exactly what they wanted.
These kinds of negotiations happen behind the scenes all the time. The truth is that some of these fighters act like they deserve a lifetime pension because they’ve fought for a company for a couple of years. That is unrealistic and just not feasible. When guys have been fighting for the organization as long as Liddell has, then it might work to be hardball with the negotiations. No one at AKA even comes close to having that kind of clout. I don’t blame anyone at AKA for trying to hold out for a better deal; but the truth is that the UFC was justified in sticking to their guns on this one.
No one should feel sorry for a 30-year-old non-champion who just made $170,000 (that we know of) for his last fight. Fitch is doing OK and will have more opportunities to keep making a good living.