« Pro Elite SEC statement on relations with Showtime, possible new financial backers | Home | XARM Heavyweight Tournament »
Audio: UFC’s Dana White loses it during Sacramento radio interview
By Zach Arnold | November 20, 2008
UFC President now switching tactics and public stance with Jon Fitch?
Remember what Kevin Iole quoted Dana White as saying about Jon Fitch?
“Affliction is still out there trying to build its company. Let [Fitch] go work with them. Let him see what he thinks of those [expletives]. [Expletive] him. These guys aren’t partners with us. [Expletive] them. All of them, every last [expletive] one of them.”
Yep. Now, check out this radio interview that White did on Wednesday night:
“It doesn’t have to do with Jon Fitch either,” continued White. “I like Jon Fitch. I’ve never had a bad word with Jon Fitch. The problem is with the idiots that run AKA. I won’t use any names; the idiots know who they are.”
But in expressing a big picture concern that extends beyond Fitch, White began to introduce the current state of the economy as a reason why he doesn’t understand why fighters are more agreeable to terms of deals that are being presented.
I think it’s fair to say that White didn’t expect AKA’s representation to say anything other than ‘yes sir’ to him on any business deal, and like the schoolyard bully… once you punch the bully in the mouth, the bully isn’t so tough any more.
“It’s like all the media wants to jump up and go ‘Oh the UFC! The UFC!” Shut up! Shut up. Every one of you shut your mouth. Mind your business. Here’s the deal: the reality is we’re working our asses off to make this thing bigger and better for everybody. The world is a very dangerous place right now with this economy.”
Naturally, one would not think that Dana White would be losing any sleep over Jon Fitch. The sales of UFC’s upcoming video game will not be determined by whether or not Jon Fitch is in the game in the first place.
There is something remarkable to be said here about Dana White and the statements he’s made the past couple of months. Here is a man coming off of a PPV weekend that did $4.8 million USD at the gate in Las Vegas (currently a ghost town), with a brand new UFC Heavyweight champion in Brock Lesnar who the media loves, and Randy Couture (who got into a protracted legal battle with Zuffa) got beat.
If you buy all the media spin coming out of this weekend’s event, how could things be bad in the world of UFC? After all, several media outlets were blushing about how UFC was having great business success when no one else is during this current economic down cycle.
What is it that has set White off? Is it the mediocre TV ratings that The Ultimate Fighter is drawing right now on Spike TV? Is it the report by Dave Meltzer that UFC 90 (Anderson Silva vs. Patrick Cote) did an estimated 300,000 PPV buys? Is the cause of stress the big amount of money that Station Casinos currently lost in Q3 ‘08? Is it financial trouble due to the outstanding loans/revolving line of credit that Zuffa took out to finance their massive expansion operation into Europe? Is Dana as paranoid as Vince McMahon is right now and scared to death that Fitch may open up the flood gates for other fighters to challenge UFC’s authority?
Excuses, excuses
The sad part about Dana White’s media blowback towards Jon Fitch is that he’s falling into the same trap that he’s mocked Bob Arum for falling into the past. “The economy is bad,” “agents are bad,” “they don’t want to be our partners.”
The rationale that the UFC President gives about how fighters or agents who don’t agree with what he says are not ‘his partners’ is amusing. You want your fighters to be your ‘partners’? Give them an ownership stake in Zuffa LLC. That’s how you can make them a business partner. Want to pay them to fight for you only? Then financially treat them as an employee and not as an independent contractor.
This situation is sad because it seems like such a self-inflicted wound on the part of UFC management. Who knew that mild-mannered Jon Fitch would cause the UFC President to freak out in a similar manner to when he faced a labor dispute with Randy Couture?
In a USA Today interview, White is back at it attacking ‘agents’ in the business:
And you know what? This is more than just AKA. There’s other camps out there that we’re having trouble doing business with. And at the end of the day, this is a business. We run a business just like any other business. You come in, you do your job with your company and you get paid.
And the guys that don’t want to do business with you — then go work somewhere else. It’s as easy as that. You don’t have to do business with us. There’s other people out there you can do it with.
So, White is not only railing against agents, he’s publicly laying down a marker against other fight teams by essentially saying to not fight with him on business deals.
A non-exclusive merchandising deal?
Is this an attempt to muddy the waters by Dana White?
No, no. There’s no lifetime deal on merchandising. The merchandising deal is non-exclusive. They can go out and do whatever they want to do, whenever they want to do it. with whoever they want to, and we haven’t pressured anyone to sign that thing. That merchandise deal was an offer — at the end of the day, we’re trying to come up with new ways to make more money for us and for the fighters. That’s what that deal was for.
Up until this point, every media reporter (both pro-UFC and anti-UFC) has basically claimed that the merchandising agreements call for for a fighter to give up their image/likeness for in perpetuity, meaning never-ending. Is White telling the truth here or not?
Robert Joyner at MMA Payout sums up Dana White’s latest actions in one word: brazen. If the Elite XC debacle managed to bring agents like Monte Cox and Ken Pavia together, then I wonder what kind of unity will (or will not) be fostered based on White’s actions.
UFC caught in a shell game with THQ?
Sam Caplan is reporting that UFC is dealing with some issues with THQ involving exclusive rights to all their fighters in terms of image rights and likenesses:
It appears that the UFC may have gotten itself into a bit of a predicament as sources indicate that THQ, who is producing promotion’s upcoming video game release “UFC Undisputed 2009,” operated under the auspices that they had exclusive rights to the likenesses of all fighters on the UFC roster. Five Ounces of Pain has been informed that THQ was none too pleased upon learning that rival Electronic Arts has commenced work on an MMA game of its own and that plans are in motion to involve a great deal of recognizable fighters. The sources have indicated that in addition to names such as Randy Couture, Tito Ortiz, and Frank Shamrock that known UFC fighters could potentially be featured as well.
The fact that THQ had been promised exclusive access to the likeness of the entire UFC roster when the UFC wasn’t in a position to make such an assurance is believed to be a reason why the promotion has acted in haste in regards to demanding its fighters sign over their likenesses for “Undisputed.”
Previous posts:
- Flashback: Rob Maysey talks about Zuffa’s new marketing rights agreement
- Report: Jon Fitch released by UFC
Topics: MMA, Media, UFC, Zach Arnold | | Permalink | Trackback | Share This
I wish every fight team/camp in the country would follow suit with what AKA has done here. The UFC has repeatedly made these insulting offers to fighters and managers who continue to ’suck it up’ and take what they’re given in exchange for exposure. If many others would follow suit and work with other promotions, the UFC monopoly would begin to crack a bit. But as of right now I blame both Zuffa and the fighters management for this situation.
Big big props to AKA for taking a stance even though it could hurt they’re pocketbook in the short term. I am a huge MMA fan and have never missed any UFC’s but due to what I have learned in how they treat fighters along they’re watering down of the competition level, I haven’t purchased a UFC ppv in 2 years.
I bought Affliction and will buy the next one too. Our voices may be small but our money speaks loudly. I may not make a difference but at least I’m not supporting the Zuffa machine and their nasty ways.
And for those that haven’t caught it yet, check out the trailer for the Matt Lindland documentary at http://www.fightingpolitics.com and learn more about Zuffa’s nastiness.
Dana stating how bad the economy is, is him just stating the facts thing are bad in the real world and are getting worse.
It has already had an effect on the UFC to him and my surprise looking at UFC 90 numbers.
And now he’s pretty much had it with AKA and is sending a message that you either play ball or you’re gone.
Expect more f bombs to fly and more guys to get released, Dana to me sounded like he’s had it with everyone at this point who is trying to play hardball with him.
Now with the economy going to hell and Affliction on it’s last legs, guys better smarten up before they end up out of jobs because Dana isn’t playing around.
You don’t have to like how the UFC does business but just like the NFL, you either play by their rules or you don’t play at all.
Last week it seemed the bad economic climate was of no concern to dana. Seems things have changed.
Juat because the economy is bad and there is an increase in competition, doesn’t mean fighters have to aell themselves for a lifetime. White is talking out of his behind and this could get ugly. Keep in mind that White has never liked Bob Cook
They will do what Vera did and leave their poison management and make deals directly with the UFC.
Thousands of whining posts will be made on MMA message board and blog comments sections.
*laugh*
So, someone who has a dispute with Dana White is poison?
Look, you can spin this argument however which way you want to, but to expect a fighter to gladly sign over the rights to his image/likeness for (reportedly) in perpetuity is madness. As Fitch clearly pointed out, his management team said they were willing to give Zuffa up to 10 years *after* his UFC career ended to keep the merchandise rights, and the organization supposedly didn’t want to play ball.
To try to characterize Fitch and others as being ‘greedy’ here is absurd.
Barry Bonds doesn’t allow his likeness to be in video games. Or at least he didn’t a few years ago. He still had a job with a MLB team.
An athletic career and an athletes image rights don’t have to be a joint package.
I don’t think Fitch is being greedy, I just think he’s making a big mistake siding with a management company that just got kicked to the curb by the UFC.
If a management company ends up getting their entire crew of fighters blackballed from the largest MMA organization in the world, I’d think they weren’t doing something right in contract negotiations.
If everybody else is agreeing to it, why can’t they?
(Like I said before, I really don’t think this lifetime licensing agreement is going to hold up in court, no matter how many names they get on the dotted line. It’s almost a given that some of the fighters who are agreeing to it now will fight to have that agreement abolishished should they get cut by the UFC.)
“Welterweight Mike Swick, who also trains at AKA, has contacted the UFC and confirmed his intention to continue to fight for the promotion.”
We’ve already seen one fighter choose UFC over AKA. Will he be the only one?
[...] FightOpinion.com has a great write-up with links an audio interview with Dana White last night. Zach Arnold also gives good insight into the UFC’s past battles with “agents” and “managers”. [...]
I am glad to see that most people posting realize how unfair and one sided some of the UFC’s business practices are.
The UFC is basically holding the career’s of contracted fighters hostage. But these are the kind of business practices you can get away with, when you don’t have the threat of a major competitive MMA promotion to contend with.
Here’s hoping that the releaesd fighters and soon to be releaesd fighters, can still make decent paydays working for some of the regional promotions.
Dana White proving once and for all that he’s no better than the rest of the “scum [boxing] promoters” he ridicules daily.
Giving up image and likeness rights in perpetuity, basically for nothing other than the privilege to fight in the UFC…what f*@(ing garbage.
And to see people saying his management is screwing him or “just sign like everyone else” is sickening. The hardball tactics that Zuffa uses while trying to claim they’re “good for the sport” and “us” and blah blah blah are defenseless.
I find there to be a heavy sense of irony when Dana White speaks of how corrupt Boxing is and how their business practices have killed the sport and then he does this dumb shit.
I don’t think the fighters would mind giving up their merchandising rights if the money was right but I think just as every promoter seems to do, the fighter’s best interest is never what the promoter is looking out for and they low-ball them and pressure them to hurt themselves financially in the future.
Sad really.
-Rp
“We’ve already seen one fighter choose UFC over AKA. Will he be the only one?”
There probably will be others who will sell their soul to the devil for life. That’s their choice. Though really, I don’t think this clause is going to hold up anyway if agents take this to court.
White seems rather unhinged through all this.
Sounds like the UFC really did royally f*ck up their deal with THQ. What the hell were there lawyers thinking?
I understand alot of the motivations and reasons behind the UFC salary and contract structures (and frankly, I agree with much of it), but this “in perpetuity” thing is simply batshit crazy. I hope the fighters have the balls to stand up to Zuffa.
And I love the line of “we take care of the fighters”…we give secret locker room bonuses, if you’re their butt-buddy or one of someone who is they’ll keep you around forever (i.e. Gurgel), they’ll pay off guys they like with cars and other things during negotiations.
Funny thing is they’re doing it because they’ll make 100x the money off their backs in the long run, but BAH GAWD they bought you a Hummer!
Every other sport, the players sign over their rights for merchandising. So that concept isn’t unique to the UFC. However, those agreements are much more fair towards the athletes. I can’t say the same thing about Zuffa’s deal.
One thing that does bother me is some fans are saying: “See, Fedor was right.” I couldn’t disagree more. What Fedor’s management was doing was using their fighter to progress the managers agenda. So I still do’t feel bad for Fedor.
For a company that is currently smashing PPV numbers between their only two competitors, airing on ESPN, aligning with mainstream music artists, branding out the wazoo, essentially have a lock for NYC commisioning (no thanks to Dana or Marc, thank Melvina Lathen). Dana is gonna have to stop using the “This sport is not big” argument. It maybe only slightly over 15 years old but like kids nowaday compared to back in the day has developed way faster. Times have changed and his sport is huge, as some would argue the biggest in the most important 18-34 demographic. Theres a line between doing good business and just plain fucking someone over.
45:
(a) but those sports sign their likenesses over to the union/PA and they do receive LARGE royalty payments from merchandising etc. They’re [supposed to be] used for the benefit of the players (i.e. pensions, health care, strike funds etc.).
(b) While you’re right that it was just the management using negotiations for their means - people rightly should feel bad for Fedor because he’s just being used as a means to an end by people he trusts. They’re basically just as bad as Zuffa as being, but on the other side of the table.
First, I think it’s complete bullshit what Zuffa has done.
However, this ithe way it is: market power. Zuffa is really the only game in town. There are absolutely no other organizations sniffing the MMA video game business. Signing away your name and likeness in perpetuity may sound bad at first, but think about this: There are no competition to the UFC! You can cry all you want about Affliction, Dream, etc. but these guys are not competition. They just simply aren’t. There will not be a competing video game so what do these fighters lose when they sign away their video game likeness? Nothing. The only thing they lose is their dignity for bending over and take it up the ass by the Zuffa lawyers.
Their video game likeness won’t earn them a dime anywhere else in the next 10-15 years. If in those years, they find that they are losing money through this “contract,” then they can band together and throw a class action lawsuit at Zuffa. Until then, just sign it because it doesn’t change anything financially for them, but perhaps even help them in the long run as new fans are brought in through the video game world.
The sport world has this script played out over and over. When a sport is in its infancy, the owners have market power. When a sport blows up and becomes indispensable, the players gain market power. The original players must pay their dues so that later players reap the benefit. John Fitch and others just need to suck it up and take it on the chin for the next generation of fighters who will benefit later when the sport blows up. This is not the time.
Cyph, the largest video game manufacturer in the world, EA Games, is making an MMA game. That is no reason alone to want to refuse and sign. The reason beign if Jon left UFC and was offered the chance to be on a game after his UFC tenure he would not be able to, since he is owned. Same goes for the whole endorsements, it seems very clouded right now but the jist I get from it is if Nike came to one of these guys like a GSP (luckly he has a good manager) and offered him his own line of training equipment that UFC can block it or take a slice or most of the pie.
Randy looks to have done a line with Everlast while he was out of the UFC, it would be a great question for someone in the media to ask him the terms of the deal and how many concessions had to be made for it.
If you think there won’t be anymore MMA video games in the next 10-15 years, you must not think MMA is going to last long.
The dearth of any sort of true, nuanced discussion of the business side of MMA is disheartening. It’s always black and white, all or nothing with MMA blogs and fans, which is never true in real life.
People should read up on Porter’s Five Forces and Capital Structure Theory of corporate finance to really understand the “why” part of the UFC’s salary structure.
Most MMA fans seem to be under the assumption that the UFC is a charity and that the fighters deserve every single penny that the UFC as long as they are “profitable”. Cost of capital is more important in this case than profitability. Zuffa does not operate to make fighters rich; it operates to be able to return a certain ROI back to equity stakeholders and a certain coupon back debt holders (ie, cost of capital).
The UFC — nor will any other properly run company — just give money away to “do the right thing” by its employees. It will do the right thing to enrich its shareholders, if that means paying employees better, it will do so. That’s why more marketable fighters are paid more and given more leeway in negotiations; marketable fighters have leverage.
The others, like Jon Fitch unfortunately, are just commodities. To be bought, sold, used and thrown away. Is it “right”? That’s not for me to answer. But crying about it will never change this fact.
“The fact that THQ had been promised exclusive access to the likeness of the entire UFC roster when the UFC wasn’t in a position to make such an assurance is believed to be a reason why the promotion has acted in haste in regards to demanding its fighters sign over their likenesses for “Undisputed.”” - That may be the truth behind this all!
BBB,
EA is going up against the UFC license? Forgive me if I’m skeptical about its success. That is a RUMOR by 1UP which should not be misconstrued as FACT. An MMA game without the UFC license, from a business point of view is stupid. I will classify this rumor as false until EA comes out with a press release.
I am so amazed at the MMA blogs getting so indignant about this. It’s nice to hate the evil empire doesn’t it? People are losing their jobs, their homes, and their savings as we speak. So forgive me if I couldn’t care less about John Fitch losing a contract that paid him $169k for the last title fight in addition to the sponsorship money he makes, just because he didn’t want to sign his name away for a video game that in all likelihood will have no competition for at least 10 years.
I guess you really don’t care about the best competing against the best, which is what defines true sport. Every other league facilitates it even though they’re the only game in town.
If the best aren’t fighting the best then there is no need to have only one organization, that is the entire purpose of having everything and everybody under one roof. Fitch may not be a world beater, but he is ranked #2 at welterweight until BJ Penn fights again, so thats a pretty harsh loss to real fans of MMA. Sure it’s apart of the business, but it’s the fans like you and me or are losing out, so maybe you should care abit.
I want the best fighting the best. That’s why I support this single dominant organization. Most of you guys don’t. Many feel that healthy competition is best. I agree it is best–for the fighters. For fans–it’s not and that is the truth.
I have nothing against Fitch. It’s a business deal between Fitch and the UFC and unfortunately for him, he’s not popular enough to get better terms. He has every right to ask for better terms of the deal and the UFC has every right to exercise their right to cut him.
I’m not here to pass judgment other than it being a heavy handed way of handling the situation by the UFC. However, sometimes people have to bend a little and make less money money for a little job security. Life’s not fair and that’s something Fitch found out.
Grape Knee High,
I went to business school. I full understand the angle you are going at. However, Jon Fitch’s point that he only wanted to sign his name away for 10 years maximum is a REASONABLE request. Zuffa would lose ZERO power over it’s fighters and their marketing deals.
This is just power getting to Zuffa’s head. If anything, it is poor business practice because it setting up stations like ESPN, Showtime, and CBS to get a lot of named talent.
[...] Fightlinker (sorry if it’s already been posted) Audio: UFC’s Dana White loses it during Sacramento radio interview | FightOpinion.com - Your G… A non-exclusive merchandising deal? Is this an attempt to muddy the waters by Dana White? No, [...]
Unfortunately the only reason healthy competition is currently required is to galvanize UFC and prevent them from stuffing undercards with TUF fighters, when worst of all everybody starts praising it. I know I’d keep cutting top level talent who earned to desire more and bring inexperienced TUF fighters who have no choice but to fight for peanuts if everybody was happy with my diluted but exciting tough-man challenge undercards, calling it the best card of the year. *gag*
I wouldn’t mind a UFC only MMA game, but they can’t work with quite afew top fighters for one reason or another that it’s just not logical right now. Regardless if it’s cutting someone because they lose one fight, wear the wrong t-shirt, speak their mind slightly, or refuse to sign their life away.
45,
I agree totally on this licensing/Fitch thing as I said earlier. Zuffa is batshit crazy and, you’re right, it is poor business practice. 1) Because being a bully and then flaunting it the way Dana has turns off everyone; 2) This is the kind of event that might really galvanize the fighters to bargain collectively, whether through a union or simply agency cooperation.
In my last post, I was just addressing the usual “Zuffa Pay” garbage that comes out of the woodwork with news like this.
Zuffa wants something for nothing (perpetual likeness rights) in order to make something that will likely be a very profitable enterprise (video games and licensing) and marketing tool and they want to pay nothing for it.
Seems like sound and fair business practices. But they will buy you a Hummer or John Deere.
It’s crystal clear in the USA Today blog interview that what the UFC is trying to do is separate the fighters from their agents.
Dana White is citing Mike Swick as an example of a model employee, a “partner” as he words it, who called White personally and said to forget about his management because he’s with the UFC. In other words (and if what White says is accurate), Swick is willing to sign the merchandising rights deal. That’s what the UFC wants.
White says in the same interview that if Fitch would just call him and do the same thing (ie, separate himself from his management and agree to sign what the UFC wants him to sign), that he would do that in two seconds.
He also puts unnamed “other MMA camps” on notice that he’ll cut off all relations with them just like he did with AKA if they don’t do what he wants.
On a comical note, here’s another quote from the USA Today interview: “We don’t do anything wrong. We treat everybody the right way and we treat people the way that we want to be treated.”
So is he saying Swick is an employee of the company?
That’s what it sounds like to me…
“There are absolutely no other organizations sniffing the MMA video game business. ”
Wow…you’re informed. Most of this is coming about because one of EA’s rivals is going to do an MMA video game of their own featuring big name fighters.
Way to go Dana forcing dissension amongst teammates and probably best friends, he’s putting that entire AKA camp in a position they don’t deserve. I’m laying off UFC prejudice from now on because Dana seems to be doing a great job of bringing negativity to himself currently, I don’t think I’ve seen more then a handful of favorable opinions in this latest maneauver. So it’s time for Big Billy Bob to Stfu.
Glad to see atleast some people here aren’t what I thought they were. My apologies.
We don’t know that there isn’t going to be competition in the MMA video game market in the future. DSE released the PRIDE FC videogame in the North American market despite the fact that PRIDE fanboys were/are a small niche there. Whose to say that FEG won’t come out with a MMA videogame in the future? They released K-1 games every year in Japan for the PS2 and they put out at least one K-1 MAX game.
Even for American orgs, it can happen. You don’t have to be big in order to get into the video game business. ECW released a videogame before they got bought out by WWF. TNA Wrestling has a video game out right now. Whose to say Strikeforce won’t eventually come out with a video game?
And besides, even if these orgs don’t come out with it, EA is planning on an MMA game anyway. And considering how successful the Fight Night series is, I’d say that EA is viable competition for Zuffa and THQ. Though if you ask me, Fight Night is too arcade-ish for my liking but THQ’s games have the same problem.
Wow, how’s this for logic? From Dana White’s interview on the Carmichael Dave Show:
““Let me ask you a question. I’ve got an even better question for you: Jon Fitch takes off and becomes a huge superstar in another league somewhere else. Do you think we are going to keep him in a video game? Do you really think when the new video game comes out that we’re going to have the guy who is a huge superstar somewhere else be in our video game!? It’s common sense! People are so stupid sometimes it actually hurts my brain.”
Of course, that’s not the point, and no one ever said that it was. The issue is that Fitch signing away his likeness to Zuffa for life would be legally unable to ever appear in any other video game. And yes, there is decent money to be paid by appearing in the multi-billion-dollar video game industry (ask Randy Couture and Gina Carano).
An MMA game without the UFC brand attached to it will fail bigger than Elite XC and others competitors have.
How in the world are you going to try and take a piece of the MMA market when you don’t have the backing of the biggest MMA org in the world?.
This just shows how clueless some people are, they fact that they haven’t caught on that The UFC name is what sells not the fighters.
How many bandwagon jumpers are gonna have to find out the hard way that you don’t win when you go up against the big dog in MMA. There is a grave yard full of names of competitors that went up againt the UFC and is gone looks like we have more names to add to that list.
This is not all that different from how a Mafia boss operates: Fear, intimidation, and making examples out of people are their preferred methods of getting what they want.
I wonder where the Fertitta’s learned that trick from.
Well it doesn’t surprise me that Zuffa uses Mafia-like tactics. Take a look at the Fertitta family history.
Read: Z-Files Part II
http://fightsport.com/fightsport/news/2005_03_20_fightsport_archive.html
According to Sherdog, Zuffa and AKA are once again talking.
There is no motivation for Zuffa to talk unless:
1) They fear CBS or Showtime will pick them up.
2) The amount of negative attention was too much, especially when the facts showed that Zuffa is a bully.
Should be interesting to see how this one plays out.
An MMA game without the UFC brand wouldnt be doomed to fail. All depends who would be behind it, what the game was actually like and if they had a deep enough Create mode.
@45Huddle…or maybe the guys at AKA used a little common sense and realized it isn’t fair, but it’s the best offer as of now.
If AKA’s management ends up advising their fighters to sign away the lifetime rights to their own likeness, then the UFC’s Mafia-like tactics of fear and intimidation will have been successful.
That would be a shame if AKA fails or gives up. This is exactly the kind of stunt that the fighters can use to organize and at least put their foot down.
45 Huddle, you forgot the last option…
3. AKA realised that being blackballed from Zuffa is the death of their camp and have come to their senses regarding the contract.
The assumption that an MMA video game from the biggest video game publisher in the world (EA) will automatically be a failure is a stretch.
Also, “video game rights” does not just mean “MMA video games.” Fighters can sign deals to be in non-MMA video games, such as the recent deals for Randy Couture and Gina Carano to appear in Command & Conquer: Red Alert 3.
EA’s Fight Night series doesn’t have any promotions attached to their game. Only the boxers. So why wouldn’t a MMA equivalent work out for EA?
All EA needs is Tito Ortiz’s name for the game and it will sell very well.
This whole situation shows how much more the UFC has in common with the WWE business model wise than with boxing or the major sports leagues. In boxing games, EA negotiates with the fighters directly, not the promoters. In team sports games, companies negotiate with the player unions. But for the WWE and UFC games, they negotiate with the promotion. Heck, Dana White even uses the same publisher that WWE does to release their game!
But at least the WWE doesn’t make these guys sign exclusive lifetime likeness clauses. Can you imagine if the WWE still owned the exclusive likeness of Brock Lesnar? Would Dana still say “it’s only business” if only the WWE could profit from Brock Lesnar’s likeness?
It will be VERY interesting to see who blinked first in regards to the new talks between the UFC & AKA. If it was AKA I’ll be disappointed because I was hoping that this latest gaffe on Dana White’s part would stimulate talks between what remains of EliteXC, Viacom, Affliction & maybe even Strikeforce to combine their assets & efforts to form an organization that could offer an alternative to the UFC.
Obviously the EliteXC experiment failed because they chose really shady people to head the company, but if they took whatever decent parts remain of that outfit & merged it with Affliction ( & maybe Strikeforce depending on what their current deal with NBC is ) along with Affliction’s working relationship with M-1, they’d have an attractive package to offer CBS & Showtime.
I believe that it’s still a good, viable idea to do so even if Dana & the boys do retain their relationship with AKA. Because it’s just a matter of time before the absolute power that Dana operates with causes him to do something else outrageous.
I’m FAR from being any sort of a business wiz, but there must be a good reason that they bust up monopolies.
And here come the other fighter managers to kiss the UFC’s ass: http://mmajunkie.com/news/13298/american-top-team-boss-claims-no-concerns-with-videogame-exclusivity.mma
Saying that Fitch isn’t popular enough to earn more consideration for contract negotiations is humorous when taking into account that it’s half because Zuffa has completely failed to promote him worth two shits. The answer? Sign away your lifeltime image rights to those same people, of course! Likely it hurts Fitch more than the UFC to make the stand, but that doesn’t change the fact that anyone arguing for Zuffa in this case with what is known and doesn’t work for them is being very willfully ignorant.
On a related note, as long as the sport of MMA continues to grow & it doesn’t suddenly take a big hit in it’s popularity over the next couple/few years, I think a union of some sort is inevitable.
Many people use the example of boxing as their argument against the likelihood of such a union forming. But, what they fail to realize is that collectively MMA athletes are much better educated than boxers. Especially with so many of them coming from an NCAA wrestling background.
This isn’t a slam against boxers or boxing because that’s the world I come from. But, though it’s becoming less of a fact than it once was, many fighters come from impoverished backgrounds & limited formal educations. Add that to the way that pro boxing is structured with hundreds of different promoters employing said fighters & their being a ridiculous amount of governing bodies all with their own titles …
It’s just always been too difficult to get everyone on the same page.
But, rather than each fighter being from a different gym & each one of them being represented by a different manager with all of them being out for themselves as in boxing, MMA fighters are much more into the team concept. Which, when combined with their better educations will eventually lead to a union of some sort IMO.
And, I think that the powers that be at the UFC knows it & are terrified by it’s inevitability. That’s why we have Dana White trying to strong arm fighters & their representatives now why he still can & why he’s so critical about fighters like Uriah Faber & others becoming involved in their own business affairs outside of the UFC.
Face reality Boys and Girls, this is what happens everyday in the corporate world. Nothing in College or University that will prepare you for one thing: Real World Experience.
There’s seems to be a lot of whining on this thread, especially by socialist sympathizers who want to spread the wealth. The UFC is no different from a typical Fortune 500 company. They’re protecting their interests and forwarding their business objectives with a bullish demeanor.
If you want to get ahead in the business world, you have not choice but to be RUTHLESS. This is why Dana White is driving a Ferrari, while others are stuck paying for their mortgages, whining on blog threads and living paycheck to paycheck. The UFC is simply moving forward and maintaining a near monopoly. Dana may be crude with his statements, but his language is no different from what goes on behind closed doors in a corporate office.
As a successful business person myself, I need to make choices that benefits my endeavors and brings more black to my balance book. You have no choice but to be Ruthless and destroy the competition or risk getting eaten by someone else.
Sure, MMA fans and fighters want to see the UFC spread the wealth. However, they’re not the ones signing the checks or investing millions of dollars in a business (therby assuming all the financial risk). This is why business ownership has its advantages and disadvantages. And this is why some people get ahead, while others get stuck in life.
Overall, unless they have better negotiation leverage, a stake in ownership or pursue additional means of income, a majority of fighters will continue to fall prey to the UFC Juggernaut.
And I really have no problem with it.
Fitch and UFC kissed and made up. This must really ruin Ivan’s day. Down with the evil empire! =)
@Huddle
“All EA needs is Tito Ortiz’s name for the game and it will sell very well.”
Acclaim thought that “Legends of Wrestling” would sell well, too. And they had arguably bigger names in Hulk Hogan, Bret Hart and The Legion of Doom.
It’s the brand that sells…
“All EA needs is Tito Ortiz’s name for the game and it will sell very well.”
That’s the most preposterous line I’ve heard all day.
Dana White’s temper tantrum gives us great insight into the mindset of the business/corporate/industrial tycoons in American history. It’s free enterprise for me, but not for thee!
I’m intelligent, I’m smart, I’m hardworking, but dammit, my station isn’t garaunteed, because I have to get up everyday and compete! I have to work too damn hard! It’s not fair! It’s outrageous that I can lose my important place in life.
Unlike the oil, steel, banking industries, that bribed the government to help them against their competion. Dana has no one else to go to. He’s facing terrifying feeling that he’ll have to work hard everyday, that life won’t be predictable, stress will always be with him.
Thank you Dana! What an ass!
Dana White is such a mark!
He really believes that his fighters should just accept his greatness, generosity and, good will!
In reality, it’s market pressures that are slapping his bald head. It’s fun to watch him squirm. He should act more like typical corporate heads, stoic, at least in public.
The suppliers, the fighters and, their representatives, however, aren’t that impressed.
They want what’s best for them and, should act in their own enlightened self-interest.
Can anyone have a problem with that?
According to Dave Meltzer, Fitch & Wellisch are back in the UFC.
http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/11/20/jon-fitch-claims-dana-white-is-not-telling-the-whole-story-about-mike-swick-accuses-the-ufc-of-strong-arm-tactics-during-negotiations/
Great interview with Jon Fitch. He talks about:
- How Swick’s deal is different
- How White strong armed them
- How it was his decision, not his managements to not sign the deal originally
I’m not sure if Dana White can’t just do business properly, or if he plays bad cop to Fertitta’s good cop. I really think it is the later of the two.
Well he signed so that means his lifetime video game likeness rights are with Zuffa now right? Zuffa bullies their way to getting what they want again. That clause would be shot down though if tried in court. The question though is whether fighters in the future who want to appear on another video game are going to want to go through an expensive, long drawn out process in court to fight Zuffa on this.
“As a successful business person myself,”
Yeah, I call bullshit on this one. You really think any of us are impressed with whatever bullshit you are trying to spew to us? Successful business person…..please! I am going to have to throw toilet paper at you, you are that full of shit.
My newest article about this situation is up now at http://www.ivansblog.com/2008/11/fear-intimidation-and-making-examples.html
The headline is, “Fear, Intimidation, and Making Examples Out of People: UFC Wins Power Struggle, Fighters Give UFC Lifetime Rights to Their Likenesses”
The fighters & their camps may be losing these little fights now, but I’ve got to believe that them & their representatives are keeping a tally. And, when the time is right ( whether it’s next year or five years down the line ) they’ll collectively take a stand.
Isn’t that how labor unions always form? With the slow build up of various beefs against the employer, a few stands here & there snuffed out by management, then secret meetings by the employees, until they have enough numbers & good enough representation to make a big stand that threatens to do the employer serious financial damage should they stop work.
It’ll happen, especially if the growth of the sport begins to attract the attention of agents involved in the representation of athletes in other big time sports.
The money might not be right quite yet as far as what the fighters are earning to stimulate that interest from said agents, but when it is, they’ll sniff it out & come calling …
Jim— I’d like to think that would happen, but this was as good of an opportunity as any, and everyone ran for cover.
Also, there is a high-profile sports agency in the sport now, representing Georges St. Pierre, and the UFC promptly clarified what it thinks about this by saying in an interview with the Canadian Press that “all of these guys [agents] are pukes.”
“Acclaim thought that “Legends of Wrestling” would sell well, too. And they had arguably bigger names in Hulk Hogan, Bret Hart and The Legion of Doom.”
That’s a bad example because so many prospective buyers knew that Legends of Wrestling was going to be the horrible game that it was. The buzz on that game was very bad even from the early previews. Anyone who picked up a video game magazine or read a video game web site, even before the game was released, was likely to know how much that game sucked.
That is very unlikely to the case with an EA-developed MMA game, although of course you never know.
“That is very unlikely to the case with an EA-developed MMA game, although of course you never know.”
Not even EA (who are even more of a dastardly monopoly than Dana White or Vince McMahon can EVER dream of being) aren’t immune to cranking out mediocre games. Just play “Facebreaker” and I DARE you to find more than about three decent things to say about that game!
Legends of Wrestling had a sweet roster. But like Ivan said, the game itself sucked. That’s why it failed. Acclaim wasn’t very good at making pro wrestling games. The only thing that Acclaim has on THQ is that the Smackdown! series is more arcade-like whereas the Acclaim games on the Playstation were more simulation-like. Fire Pro Wrestling is the absolute best though it’s not licensed.
An EA-developed MMA game I don’t think will be any worse than the THQ game. EA’s Fight Night series is very arcadey but the same can be said about THQ’s Smackdown! series and the PRIDE FC video game. I hate it when EA and THQ don’t strive for realism in their games. In a boxing/MMA game, I want the fighting mechanics to be realistic and I want the career mode to be realistic as well. The career mode sucked in Fight Night Round 3 and in all the MMA games up until now.
All the marks who think that the EA game will be good, ask your self this: would you buy an MMA game with Frank Shamrock, Scott Smith, Robbie Lawler, and no UFC fighters?
If you say yes, then either you have a lot of money or your hate for the UFC has clouded your judgment.
I should also add that it was a hypothetical question, since this rumor has a 99% chance of being false as EA actually have business managers who know a bad deal when they see it.
Chuck, whether or not Lester is a “successful business man” or not, your immediately discounting his valid points just show how naive you are.
Do you really think Steve Jobs and Bill Gates became enormously successful because they overpaid their employees and treated their employees like cuddly little teddy bears?
Ruthless is a word commonly used to describe most successful businessmen.
Did you know that psychopaths and people with antisocial personality disorder are over-represented among Fortune 500 business executives? This is well documented and shouldn’t surprise anyone. That’s why successful businessmen are often so ruthless. Does this mean that society should tolerate psychopathic and antisocial behavior from corporate executives? No.
Our society has the right to regulate their activities, just as they do ours, through laws. And I’m pretty darn positive that if you took a UFC contract to court, this clause and some others would be shot down. What the “don’t cross dana” crowd is suggesting is that the whistle blowers in the blogosphere and media just shut up and not bring attention to these things, which could lead to the government getting involved. Though a lot of Pro-Zuffa fans tend to be Gung Ho Ayn Randian types so it doesn’t surprise me that many take the “shut up, how dare you go against Dana” approach. Unless of course we’re talking about Pro Elite. Then government intervention is all fine and dandy then in the eyes of these people.
“Ruthless is a word commonly used to describe most successful businessmen.”
Damn Grape, you are attacking me left and right today!
Trust me, I know how big-business people are. I was just going after Lester for his “I am better than you” attitude over his actual opinion on this matter. If we were talking about boxing, and I interjected my stance with “As a talented boxer myself…” wouldn’t you and other people attack me for a comment like this? I would totally deserve it!
Cyph;
About an MMA game with Frank Shamrock, Robbie Lawler, et al. The thing is if that game would turn out good. I think most of us would buy it if it was good, over if it had our favorite fighters in it. If you check out game reviews for an EA MMA game, then you check out reviews for the upcoming UFC game, and you see the EA game gets mostly eights and nines out of ten, and the UFC game gets mostly five and sixes out of ten, would you still get the UFC game, only because of the brand name? Sure it would sell better, but would that make it a better game? FUCK NO!!!!!!!
As Dave2 was saying, the Fire Pro Wrestling games are the GREATEST wrestling games ever, and they are in 2D and no licensed wrestlers (real guys but their names changed to avoid copyright bullshit). It’s all about quality, or at least it should be…
The bottom line is that the UFC got the AKA guys to sign the video game deal. LOL at anyone thinking that Dana “lost it” because he was so surprised that Fitch “fought back”. Ultimately, Fitch and every other AKA fighter out there caved in on this issue, and it was probably smart for them to do that. The economy IS bad. The number of competing promotions at the level of the UFC IS going to remain small. Dana and the Fertittas merely played “bad guy–good guy” to pressure the AKA management into giving them exactly what they wanted.
These kinds of negotiations happen behind the scenes all the time. The truth is that some of these fighters act like they deserve a lifetime pension because they’ve fought for a company for a couple of years. That is unrealistic and just not feasible. When guys have been fighting for the organization as long as Liddell has, then it might work to be hardball with the negotiations. No one at AKA even comes close to having that kind of clout. I don’t blame anyone at AKA for trying to hold out for a better deal; but the truth is that the UFC was justified in sticking to their guns on this one.
No one should feel sorry for a 30-year-old non-champion who just made $170,000 (that we know of) for his last fight. Fitch is doing OK and will have more opportunities to keep making a good living.