Comments on: Let’s go trick-or-treating at Dana White’s house http://www.fightopinion.com/2008/10/31/lets-go-trick-or-treating-at-dana-whites-house/ Thu, 09 Feb 2012 18:37:07 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: D.Capitated http://www.fightopinion.com/2008/10/31/lets-go-trick-or-treating-at-dana-whites-house/comment-page-1/#comment-54138 D.Capitated Mon, 03 Nov 2008 13:17:18 +0000 http://www.fightopinion.com/?p=2809#comment-54138 Matter of fact, (zach can integrate this and I'd be happy) I fail to see how most of those fighters are markedly worse than Kalib Starnes. Starnes is good enough to beat McDonald and Leben, and he's ragingly mediocre at everything. Matter of fact, (zach can integrate this and I’d be happy) I fail to see how most of those fighters are markedly worse than Kalib Starnes. Starnes is good enough to beat McDonald and Leben, and he’s ragingly mediocre at everything.

]]> By: D.Capitated http://www.fightopinion.com/2008/10/31/lets-go-trick-or-treating-at-dana-whites-house/comment-page-1/#comment-54137 D.Capitated Mon, 03 Nov 2008 13:13:31 +0000 http://www.fightopinion.com/?p=2809#comment-54137 I would consider Prangley a top 15 middleweight going in without any questions whatsoever. Wins over Kondo, Uscola, Lutter, Horwich, and Semenov are all pretty darn good. He got robbed against Horn as well. The other guys are top 20-50 talent, which makes them no different in my eyes than Bisping, Leben, Smith, Belfort, MacDonald, or most of the other subelite in the world. I don't see how, using Quarry again, having two wins over mid level competition in the last 2 years makes him clearly better than any of those guys. IMO, the only thing that separates him from Semenov is activity. I would consider Prangley a top 15 middleweight going in without any questions whatsoever. Wins over Kondo, Uscola, Lutter, Horwich, and Semenov are all pretty darn good. He got robbed against Horn as well. The other guys are top 20-50 talent, which makes them no different in my eyes than Bisping, Leben, Smith, Belfort, MacDonald, or most of the other subelite in the world. I don’t see how, using Quarry again, having two wins over mid level competition in the last 2 years makes him clearly better than any of those guys. IMO, the only thing that separates him from Semenov is activity.

]]> By: 45 Huddle http://www.fightopinion.com/2008/10/31/lets-go-trick-or-treating-at-dana-whites-house/comment-page-1/#comment-54092 45 Huddle Sun, 02 Nov 2008 15:34:33 +0000 http://www.fightopinion.com/?p=2809#comment-54092 What fighters has Santiaho beaten that you would consider upper tier? What fighters has Santiaho beaten that you would consider upper tier?

]]> By: D.Capitated http://www.fightopinion.com/2008/10/31/lets-go-trick-or-treating-at-dana-whites-house/comment-page-1/#comment-54084 D.Capitated Sun, 02 Nov 2008 03:58:23 +0000 http://www.fightopinion.com/?p=2809#comment-54084 <i>Here’s a short list of fighters, in no particular order, that are better than anyone Jorge has beaten in his streak: Silva, Franklin, Hendo, Filho, Marquardt, Leites, Bisping, Quarry, Leben, MacDonald, Okami, Maia, Lindland, Trigg, Lawler, Villasenor, Smith, Mousasi, Akiyama, Belfort.</i> I'd love to know what methodology gets you Nate Quarry in this list. Or for that matter, Jason MacDonald or Vitor Belfort. Aside from that, the simple fact is that he's been fighting mid to upper tier competition constantly for 2 years and beaten everyone. In fact, not only did he beat them, he stopped all of them. But if you think beating Nate Quarry means anything right now, I think we're gonna be on diametrically opposed sides of this argument. Here’s a short list of fighters, in no particular order, that are better than anyone Jorge has beaten in his streak:

Silva, Franklin, Hendo, Filho, Marquardt, Leites, Bisping, Quarry, Leben, MacDonald, Okami, Maia, Lindland, Trigg, Lawler, Villasenor, Smith, Mousasi, Akiyama, Belfort.

I’d love to know what methodology gets you Nate Quarry in this list. Or for that matter, Jason MacDonald or Vitor Belfort. Aside from that, the simple fact is that he’s been fighting mid to upper tier competition constantly for 2 years and beaten everyone. In fact, not only did he beat them, he stopped all of them. But if you think beating Nate Quarry means anything right now, I think we’re gonna be on diametrically opposed sides of this argument.

]]> By: 45 Huddle http://www.fightopinion.com/2008/10/31/lets-go-trick-or-treating-at-dana-whites-house/comment-page-1/#comment-54061 45 Huddle Sat, 01 Nov 2008 20:31:45 +0000 http://www.fightopinion.com/?p=2809#comment-54061 IceMuncher, Great point on Kang. I forgot about him. He, just like Shields, never have business inside the Top 5 until proven otherwise. Robbie Lawler is a Top 10 fighter, but I tend to cringe when people put him Top 5. Jordan Breem made a great point a week ago. And that is Robbie Lawler matches up very poorly with many UFC Middleweights. Guys like Silva can oustrike him. Guys like Marquardt are more well rounded. And guys lke Almeida or Maia could submit him. dave2, The jist of my point is that wins against non-top level fighters don't prove a fighter being top 10. I understand if people disagree on a fighter by fighter basis. But with Santiago, he just doesn't have the wins against better talent to make him a top level fighter yet. IceMuncher,

Great point on Kang. I forgot about him. He, just like Shields, never have business inside the Top 5 until proven otherwise. Robbie Lawler is a Top 10 fighter, but I tend to cringe when people put him Top 5. Jordan Breem made a great point a week ago. And that is Robbie Lawler matches up very poorly with many UFC Middleweights. Guys like Silva can oustrike him. Guys like Marquardt are more well rounded. And guys lke Almeida or Maia could submit him.

dave2,

The jist of my point is that wins against non-top level fighters don’t prove a fighter being top 10. I understand if people disagree on a fighter by fighter basis. But with Santiago, he just doesn’t have the wins against better talent to make him a top level fighter yet.

]]> By: IceMuncher http://www.fightopinion.com/2008/10/31/lets-go-trick-or-treating-at-dana-whites-house/comment-page-1/#comment-54060 IceMuncher Sat, 01 Nov 2008 20:03:50 +0000 http://www.fightopinion.com/?p=2809#comment-54060 45, you forgot Denis Kang. He's probably the best example of a guy getting a ton of wins against mediocre opponents, and then doing poorly against good competition. It's funny to look back and realize that at one point he was widely considered top 3-5. Here's a short list of fighters, in no particular order, that are better than anyone Jorge has beaten in his streak: Silva, Franklin, Hendo, Filho, Marquardt, Leites, Bisping, Quarry, Leben, MacDonald, Okami, Maia, Lindland, Trigg, Lawler, Villasenor, Smith, Mousasi, Akiyama, Belfort. That's 20 right there, and I've got others off the top of my head that I haven't included. I don't care how many #25-#50 fighters Santiago beats, he's not breaking into my top 15 until he beats one or two of the guys I listed. 45, you forgot Denis Kang. He’s probably the best example of a guy getting a ton of wins against mediocre opponents, and then doing poorly against good competition. It’s funny to look back and realize that at one point he was widely considered top 3-5.

Here’s a short list of fighters, in no particular order, that are better than anyone Jorge has beaten in his streak:

Silva, Franklin, Hendo, Filho, Marquardt, Leites, Bisping, Quarry, Leben, MacDonald, Okami, Maia, Lindland, Trigg, Lawler, Villasenor, Smith, Mousasi, Akiyama, Belfort.

That’s 20 right there, and I’ve got others off the top of my head that I haven’t included. I don’t care how many #25-#50 fighters Santiago beats, he’s not breaking into my top 15 until he beats one or two of the guys I listed.

]]> By: dave2 http://www.fightopinion.com/2008/10/31/lets-go-trick-or-treating-at-dana-whites-house/comment-page-1/#comment-54058 dave2 Sat, 01 Nov 2008 19:53:52 +0000 http://www.fightopinion.com/?p=2809#comment-54058 You are being hard on Ben Rothwell. He lost to a top 5 fighter (now 3rd/4th place depending on where you place him versus Barnett) in Arlovski. That doesn't mean that wouldn't be able to hack it in the top 10. Werdum, Gonzaga, Cro Cop, Aleks, Kharitonov are 6-10 on mmaweekly. Sherdog has Overeem and dos Santos (this guy is going to be the second Gonzaga. Overrated most likely.) on their list. You think Rothwell would lose to all these guys? As for Jorge Santiago, he's not top 10. But he's top 15 I guess. You are being hard on Ben Rothwell. He lost to a top 5 fighter (now 3rd/4th place depending on where you place him versus Barnett) in Arlovski. That doesn’t mean that wouldn’t be able to hack it in the top 10. Werdum, Gonzaga, Cro Cop, Aleks, Kharitonov are 6-10 on mmaweekly. Sherdog has Overeem and dos Santos (this guy is going to be the second Gonzaga. Overrated most likely.) on their list. You think Rothwell would lose to all these guys?

As for Jorge Santiago, he’s not top 10. But he’s top 15 I guess.

]]> By: 45 Huddle http://www.fightopinion.com/2008/10/31/lets-go-trick-or-treating-at-dana-whites-house/comment-page-1/#comment-54057 45 Huddle Sat, 01 Nov 2008 15:34:32 +0000 http://www.fightopinion.com/?p=2809#comment-54057 I couldn't disagree more. Time after time in this sport, we have seen fighters beat a long line of solid fighters like Jorge Santiago is doing. Some fighters look very well doing this. However, until they step up in competition, there is no way to rank them higher. Let me give you three recent examples: 1. Nick Thompson - He won 12 fights in a row. Beat guys like Chris Wilson and Eddie Alvarez (Lightweight). As soon as he steps up in talent and fights Jake Shields, he gets beaten quickly. Many people (not including me), had him ranked 10-12 in the world. 2. Ryan Schultz - IFL Lightweight Champion. Looked really solid during his run, including beating Chris Horedecki. As soon as he steps up in competition and goes to Japan, he looks less then average. 3. Ben Rothwell - Another guy who beat up on solid competition but nobody top tier. As soon as he fought a top level guy, he got beat up bad. These are just 3 recent examples. There are many more in the sports history. Beating the likes of Nakamura, Sasaki, Prangley, and Horn is nice.... but he continues to beat a bunch of guys who are around the same level of competition. Until he steps up in competition and fights a better fighter, it is improper to rank him higher. If history tells us anything, his wins over these level of competition doesn't prove he is Top 10 material. I couldn’t disagree more.

Time after time in this sport, we have seen fighters beat a long line of solid fighters like Jorge Santiago is doing. Some fighters look very well doing this. However, until they step up in competition, there is no way to rank them higher. Let me give you three recent examples:

1. Nick Thompson – He won 12 fights in a row. Beat guys like Chris Wilson and Eddie Alvarez (Lightweight). As soon as he steps up in talent and fights Jake Shields, he gets beaten quickly. Many people (not including me), had him ranked 10-12 in the world.

2. Ryan Schultz – IFL Lightweight Champion. Looked really solid during his run, including beating Chris Horedecki. As soon as he steps up in competition and goes to Japan, he looks less then average.

3. Ben Rothwell – Another guy who beat up on solid competition but nobody top tier. As soon as he fought a top level guy, he got beat up bad.

These are just 3 recent examples. There are many more in the sports history.

Beating the likes of Nakamura, Sasaki, Prangley, and Horn is nice…. but he continues to beat a bunch of guys who are around the same level of competition. Until he steps up in competition and fights a better fighter, it is improper to rank him higher. If history tells us anything, his wins over these level of competition doesn’t prove he is Top 10 material.

]]> By: D.Capitated http://www.fightopinion.com/2008/10/31/lets-go-trick-or-treating-at-dana-whites-house/comment-page-1/#comment-54056 D.Capitated Sat, 01 Nov 2008 12:57:59 +0000 http://www.fightopinion.com/?p=2809#comment-54056 Jorge Santiago ended up out of the UFC after the loss to Belcher 2 years ago. Since then, he's beaten Andrei Semenov, Jeremy Horn, Sean Salmon, Trevor Prangley, Yuki Sasaki, Logan Clark, Siyar Bahadurzada, and Kazuhiro Nakamura. That's a pretty damn stout list. It would be pretty tough to justify him not being a top ten middleweight right now, though I'm sure 45 would use this as proof that Leben is the #7 185lb fighter in the world. Jorge Santiago ended up out of the UFC after the loss to Belcher 2 years ago. Since then, he’s beaten Andrei Semenov, Jeremy Horn, Sean Salmon, Trevor Prangley, Yuki Sasaki, Logan Clark, Siyar Bahadurzada, and Kazuhiro Nakamura. That’s a pretty damn stout list. It would be pretty tough to justify him not being a top ten middleweight right now, though I’m sure 45 would use this as proof that Leben is the #7 185lb fighter in the world.

]]> By: sprewell http://www.fightopinion.com/2008/10/31/lets-go-trick-or-treating-at-dana-whites-house/comment-page-1/#comment-54051 sprewell Sat, 01 Nov 2008 00:23:52 +0000 http://www.fightopinion.com/?p=2809#comment-54051 LMAO at Kazuhiro Nakamura finishing ANYONE in the first round that guy couldn't finish Arnold in the first LMAO at Kazuhiro Nakamura finishing ANYONE in the first round

that guy couldn’t finish Arnold in the first

]]>