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Affliction’s second MMA event rescheduled to January 2009
By Zach Arnold | September 10, 2008
Wisdom and common sense prevailed, as the backers of Affliction’s MMA promotion announced that they are postponing their 10/11 Las Vegas event. The new event date is set for January 2009 in Anaheim at the Honda Center.
The move makes great sense, as UFC is so politically well-connected in Las Vegas that it is impossible to run a big show in that town unless you have someone like Steve Wynn or Ed Fishman on your side with their considerable casino & political muscle.
With that said, ticket sales for the Las Vegas event were predictably and reportedly weak. Sam Caplan claims that only 700 tickets were sold. Kevin Iole claims the number was 800 tickets sold.
Andrei Arlovski’s camp is reportedly “extremely disappointed” by this newest development.
Topics: Affliction, Media, MMA, Zach Arnold | 32 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
This is bad karma for calling it “Day of Reckoning”. I guess that day came for Affliction and they were judged to be crappy promoters.
So Atencio has a “huge” announcement that will “change the sport”? What is it?
I’m not surprised that Arlovski is upset. This is going to be one of the longest layoffs in his career.
Good thing he got such a massive payout for his first fight on that contract, otherwise he might be wondering whether he should have just signed the UFC extension instead of waiting out the remaining eleven months on the contract for UFC to give him his final fight.
“Affliction: POSTPONED”
not quite the same ring as BANNED, but it’ll do.
I personally think Atencio is full of it.
That’s a shame. That event coincided with our trip to Vegas. We figured we might score some free tickets if we loitered outside for a while.
low ticket sales tend to happen when your biggest competitor systemically blocks you from the majority of advertising outlets in the las vegas market
… and good promoters find their way around obstacles.
Sucks for the boys. They only get paid when they fight. Guys like Arlovski and Barnett should have some money in the bank but the mid card and below guys were counting on that check in 4 weeks. Hopefully Affliction does the right thing and cuts everyone a check for at least half their money. All the fighters are halfway through training camp.
Minor league move by Affliction. Makes it hard to take them seriously at all. Very disappointing after a tremendous first show. This is a risk with signing for a company like Affliction or even Elite XC. No guarantee either company will even be in business come January.
I think it is likely that by this time next year only UFC and Strikeforce are promoting shows on a national level in the US. I see Strikeforce moving in to the vacuum on Showtime or getting on one of NBC Universal’s networks and running shows at the level they are now and being to MMA what Showtime is to boxing.
Affliction is claiming that they didn’t spend any money on advertising, so no money lost. Which is total BS, since they have a billboard up in NYC already.
The rumor is that Affliction is partnering with Golden Boy and they are signing Tito Ortiz. If they end up signing Ortiz to the amounts he wants, they will be out of business in no time.
Don’t forget the money they spent on their little NASCAR adventure.
Well, they also have to pay their PR people as well. So they didn’t exactly spend nothing on advertising.
There is a pretty good chance this is a deal with Goldenboy and HBO. If it is, wow. With that kind of backing they would be completely set.
There is no proof HBO is involved at this point. From most credible reports…
Golden Boy & Affliction will be doing a co-promotion with both boxing and MMA on the same card. Golden Boy thinks very poorly of Atencio, which is the main reason the deal previously fell through. Donald Trump’s involvement in Affliction is the only reason Golden Boy Promotions felt comfortable with the current deal.
This is basically an “All-In” play by Affliction. Based on their actions, they lost a lot of money on their first show, were set to lose tons of money on their second show, and are now banking on hoping that Golden Boy will save them. Unless they put a huge boxing name on the same card, my gut feeling tells me Golden Boy will be moderately involved just to get a sense of the MMA market, but not really sink their teeth into it until they actually make a profit. That is typically how smart businessmen do it.
Not to mention that all of Golden Boy’s main stars are fighting from September to December, leaving absolutely NO BIG NAMED fighters for a 1/17 Affliction card. If this is on PPV, it will tank. It can’t survive between two mega MMA shows, and typically people don’t spend much money in January because of debts from Christmas time.
Gotta love MMA fans. Somehow they manage to blame the UFC for Affliction’s ridiculously naive and incompetent business practices.
This is basically an “All-In” play by Affliction. Based on their actions, they lost a lot of money on their first show, were set to lose tons of money on their second show, and are now banking on hoping that Golden Boy will save them. Unless they put a huge boxing name on the same card, my gut feeling tells me Golden Boy will be moderately involved just to get a sense of the MMA market, but not really sink their teeth into it until they actually make a profit. That is typically how smart businessmen do it.
Golden Boy doesn’t run their own PPVs. They also have the majority of HBO’s fighters under contract and nearly every date on the network. The pull they have is enormous. Given HBO’s willingness to do PPVs of other sports recently (“Prelude To The Dream” the last two years being a good example), given who would be involved, and given what would likely occur, the odds are stacked in favor of HBO PPV involvement if you add in De La Hoya.
Not to mention that all of Golden Boy’s main stars are fighting from September to December, leaving absolutely NO BIG NAMED fighters for a 1/17 Affliction card.
Bullshit. Juan Diaz is healthy enough to be back in the ring in January and the winner of Casamayor/Marquez (who is being set up to fight him) will likely be as well, given that they are fighting this weekend. Did I mention that fight will be on PPV? Toss in a Israel Vasquez title defense and you’ve got your two main boxing matches.
If this is on PPV, it will tank. It can’t survive between two mega MMA shows, and typically people don’t spend much money in January because of debts from Christmas time.
Roy Jones/Felix Trinidad ran the same night as UFC 80 and got 500,000 buys.
Boxing and MMA are oil and water for most people. No way I spend money on a PPV event with a boxing match on it. I don’t watch boxing anymore and haven’t for maybe 15-20 years.
The people who buy Affliction/Boxing will be boxing fans mainly and a few MMA hardcore fans. The boxing fans will hate it, I predict and demand the experiment end. I don’t see this working out.
It’s sad…UFC is the WWE, and at this point, everyone else exists only if Dana McMahon allows them to.
Affliction could have been WCW from the early 90’s (signing Hogan, mounting an offensive against the juggernaut WWF, and eventually becoming the top promotion) but unfortunately Randy Couture killed any chance of that happening.
Now Affliction is stocked with expensive fighters who are not known for drawing huge PPV numbers in the US.
If Affliction took their show to Japan I wonder how they’d do? Zach, would that even be a possibility? How would Fedor vs. Barnett do on Japanese TV, and would it sell 20,000 – 35,000 tickets at the gate?
My advice to Elite XC: sign Mike Tyson to a one-shot deal and have him fight the winner of Kimbo Slice and Ken Shamrock. That’s the only prayer that anyone has of matching UFC’s PPV numbers and creating real competition.
Of course the UFC fanboys would spend months screaming “FREAKSHOW!” on every MMA message board on the internets, and Dana would do his fake-outrage routine on any TV show that will have him. But the mainstream fans – and the mainstream media – would eat it up.
Whether or not HBO is willing to do the PPV is not the question. I doubt Golden Boy will want to risk substantial money on an “experiment” for them.
Roy Jones Jr. & Trinidad are huge stars, so whenever they fight, they will sell PPV’s. Juan Diaz? Not so much.
Not to mention that the numbers don’t make sense.
Fedor, Tito, Arlovski, Barnett…. That is likely already around $4 Million in payroll. Add boxers of any name value to that card, and already you are getting into the $7 Million and beyond region. Chances of breaking even become much more slim.
People always assume that when they hear names like Cuban, Trump, or De La Hoya, that the company will be successful. Yet none of them are willing to lose much money in order to build up the company properly like The Fertittas did.
I feel like a broken record sometimes. I had these same types of arguements with the WFA, IFL, Bodog, & Mark Cuban. Everybody thinks it will be the next big thing. All have been epic failures.
“Boxing and MMA are oil and water for most people. No way I spend money on a PPV event with a boxing match on it. I don’t watch boxing anymore and haven’t for maybe 15-20 years.
The people who buy Affliction/Boxing will be boxing fans mainly and a few MMA hardcore fans. The boxing fans will hate it, I predict and demand the experiment end. I don’t see this working out.”
Fantastic Analysis. Some people would claim that it would get more PPV Buys because it would pull from both audiences. But a lot of people don’t like both. Go to a UFC event and go to a boxing event. They are two completely different crowds. Neither really understands the other very much.
Boxing and MMA are oil and water for most people. No way I spend money on a PPV event with a boxing match on it. I don’t watch boxing anymore and haven’t for maybe 15-20 years.
There were 16,000 people in the Thomas and Mack Center for a mixed card this summer.
Whether or not HBO is willing to do the PPV is not the question. I doubt Golden Boy will want to risk substantial money on an “experiment” for them.
This is all a ton of speculation. I for one would be surprised to see De La Hoya in MMA with Affliction. If it happened and we end up seeing Fedor and Tito, clearly they’re investing money in the project.
Roy Jones Jr. & Trinidad are huge stars, so whenever they fight, they will sell PPV’s. Juan Diaz? Not so much.
So, what? You’re saying the UFC name doesn’t in and of itself sell? Why does the UFC keep running MMA events right after Christmas?
Fedor, Tito, Arlovski, Barnett…. That is likely already around $4 Million in payroll. Add boxers of any name value to that card, and already you are getting into the $7 Million and beyond region. Chances of breaking even become much more slim.
$7 million is the payroll for a decent boxing PPV and those break even around the 330,000 mark.
People always assume that when they hear names like Cuban, Trump, or De La Hoya, that the company will be successful. Yet none of them are willing to lose much money in order to build up the company properly like The Fertittas did.
What is the difference between De La Hoya and the other guys in this context, 45?
That sucks. Hopefully they are able to work up a lot more hype for their January event.
Fedor & Kelly Pavlik fighting on the same card would be my Christmas.
The mixed boxing and MMA show at the Thomas and Mack arena was FREE and still didn’t sell out.
Think I agree with 45 huddle on this one
The mixed boxing and MMA show at the Thomas and Mack arena was FREE and still didn’t sell out.
It also had such names as Friday Ahunanya and Pete Spratt fighting in the respective main events. It was actually a financial success too. Since people love to talk about how what happens in Japan and how its pertinent to MMA here, well, just watch some of the early PRIDE events. Or any K-1 New Years show.
D.Capitated: if it was free, how was it a financial success? TV rights and sponsorships and the like? If so, I don’t see how that would scale up with more famous and expensive fighters.
De La Hoya is an interesting duck these days. He seems to be dipping his toe into everything, but rarely goes all in. He’s got some minor interest in the soccer team down in Houston (a share of a group owning half the team), but they’ve been exceptionally slow on capital investment.
I wouldn’t count on him to pull me out of a burning car.
D.Capitated: if it was free, how was it a financial success? TV rights and sponsorships and the like? If so, I don’t see how that would scale up with more famous and expensive fighters.
People inside the building paid for food, drink, etc, along with the association/sponsorship with Planet Hollywood. The place was damn near full, and there was no large volumes of booing or anything else. Add in a comparatively small fighter payroll and you’re doing okay.
The point is this: People came to see both and were pretty happy with both products. That it hasn’t been done on a large scale before in the US isn’t an indictment of it being a poor idea. The number of potential ideas that could work borders on limitless because the sport is still embryonic in its development. Would boxing fans eschew buying a PPV with a pair of high action fights because it had MMA on it? Or might you be able to establish a star in the latino market off the back of boxing? Obviously its worked in both Holland and Japan, and those places are as polar opposite as they come.
It has already been confirmed by Affliction that their next show will be on PPV and not HBO.
From Dave Meltzer:
“Even though Golden Boy is involved, HBO is believed to not be part of this package. The current plans are for the show to have both MMA fights and boxing matches, which having seen shows with multiple types of matches on the same card (boxing/MMA, Muay Thai/MMA, pro wrestling/MMA), they almost never work.”
“Golden Boy is believed to not be involved in the MMA aspect of the show as far as matchmaking, signing fighters, or putting up money for that end, but will be involved in the production aspects of the show.”
Vazquez vs Marquez 4
Fedor vs AA
Barnett vs Sylvia
Rothwell vs Nelson
500,000 buys guaranteed
Boxing fans buy PPVs for 1 fight. If you look at the numbers everytime there is a star Mexican boxer on a PPV it does at least 300,000 PPVs.
I think Showtime has the rights to the next Marquez/Vasquez fight. But you could do Marquez/Casamayor v Juan Diaz and draw 300,000 PPV buys on that alone. You have an additional 3 hours on the PPV so you put on the MMA card (and a second boxing match).
The thing is Golden Boy is smart enough to realize what I just wrote and is negotiating with Affliction from a position of strength. Why float Affliction’s money burning operation with what would have been the profits from a nice boxing card unless you are going to end up with a big piece of Affliction’s MMA business. I think that is a sensible method for opening up the Latino market to MMA and building up both sports.
I’ve long been a boxing fan and in the past year I’ve turned a number of MMA fans on to boxing by showing them Marquez/Vasquez I,II and III, Pavlik/Miranda, Pavlik/Taylor I, Cotto/Judah, Cotto/Mosley, Cotto/Margarito and Hatton/PBF. People love a good boxing match. If Golden Boy introduces the MMA crowd to the Mexican style of no defense, rock ’em sock’em boxing that guys like Marquez, Vasquez, Barrera, Juan Diaz, Morales, etc bring every fight, they’ll make money.
Also don’t forget they can hype the hell out of this card during de la Hoya/Pacquiao.
It has already been confirmed by Affliction that their next show will be on PPV and not HBO.
HBO has a PPV wing. Used to be called TVKO.
If this ends up being true, I can’t wait to see Meltzer implode trying to explain the value of Golden Boy Promotions to wrestling fans. the quote about crosspromotion styles never working is hilarious. Its been done successfully for years in other places. That it hasn’t happened here on a significant level isn’t proof that it can’t work, merely a result of kickboxing having no value to US crowd. Well, outside of Hawaii. They seemed to do okay doing mixed cards in Blasdall Arena.