Comments on: Melendez loses in Strikeforce: What’s next for Gilbert?

By: D. Capitated

D. Capitated — Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:08:41 +0000

Let me reword that about the Noguiera fight: They questioned whether or not it was a fluke rather than effective proof of Fedor’s talent. The ducking Cro Cop thing everyone should know about. After all, his next bout in PRIDE after fighting Noguiera, he was nearly knocked out by Fujita.

By: D. Capitated

D. Capitated — Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:06:49 +0000

Fedor was an underdog on the sportsbooks? Are you serious with this comment?

I’m dead ass serious. Olympia Sportsbook had been doing MMA for quite some time. You can keep repeating that Fedor was expected to usurp the throne as often as you want, but anyone who was actually watching knows better. Fedor as “established elite fighter” wasn’t effectively proven until he won the ‘04. Prior to that, people questioned whether the Noguiera fight was a loss and claimed he was ducking Cro Cop with a wide assortment of injuries.

By: IceMuncher

IceMuncher — Sun, 29 Jun 2008 05:53:49 +0000

Guys like Melendez, Kang, and Shields were always question marks to me. They looked great when they fought against lesser opposition, but they have very few fights with top fighters. You really can’t judge a fighter until he gets in there with someone who’s at the same level they are, and even then you need more than 1 or 2 victories.

By: 45 Huddle

45 Huddle — Sun, 29 Jun 2008 04:39:09 +0000

Fedor was an underdog on the sportsbooks? Are you serious with this comment? They barely even had MMA gambling at that stage of the sport.

And people might disagree with me, but I’ve been a fan of this sport a very long time. And it seems like fans concepts of the history gets extremely distorted over time.

By: Zack

Zack — Sun, 29 Jun 2008 03:25:20 +0000

I thought Kawajiri won the Melendez fight. The LW division is stacked across the board and a lot of guys are going to trade wins and losses. A lot of losses may be to unranked guys.

Take someone like Frankie Edgar…the guy has never been ranked top 10 but could really potentially beat almost any LW in the world.

Also…LOL @ 45 Huddle trying to give a history lesson.

By: D. Capitated

D. Capitated — Sun, 29 Jun 2008 03:11:07 +0000

You’d think an “elite fighter” might be considered something more than the overwhelmingly likely loser, then. No one was expecting that he’d beat Noguiera, much less be a dominant champion and the best heavyweight in the history of the sport. If Thomson ends up rolling in his next 6-7 fights and continues to beat top level competition internationally, there won’t be any questions asked, just as no one asks questions of Fedor and whether or not he truly belongs now. If Fedor had lost in his next fight out the gate, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. Instead, we might be comparing him to Ricco Rodriguez or Mark Kerr or Vitor Belfort or any of the other number of guys who were supposed to be massive successes and ended up flashing out, which is why much of this is so inane.

By: Rollo the Cat

Rollo the Cat — Sun, 29 Jun 2008 02:59:49 +0000

“Anyone who says that Fedor was established as an elite fighter is talking out of their ass. He was the underdog in every sports book on the planet. ”

Those two statements have nothing to do with each other.

By: D.Capitated

D.Capitated — Sun, 29 Jun 2008 02:52:21 +0000

Am I splitting hair? Fedor was 12-1 with three years of experience when he beat Nogueira. Thomson is 14-2 with 8 years of experience behind him. Is he a late bloomer?

If Thomson was fighting in an organization where he didn’t get punched in the face any time someone had a point on the mat, he probably would have fought 30-40 times over that period. Thing is, the old school Pancrase and RINGS type rules sets are completely dead and often irrelevant.

Seriously, Valentijn Overeem looked pretty great in RINGS, beating guys like Babalu and Randy Couture and making it all the way to the finals of the 32 man King Of Kings tourney that Noguiera won. But in any company that let him get hit in the face, he flopped and flopped badly.

By: D.Capitated

D.Capitated — Sun, 29 Jun 2008 02:46:20 +0000

Anyone who says that Fedor was established as an elite fighter is talking out of their ass. He was the underdog in every sports book on the planet. Fedor had in fact conquered RINGS, but everyone was also aware that RINGS was not PRIDE in terms of the quality of opposition. Lee Hasdell is and was not Mark Coleman or Igor Vovchanchin. Furthermore, he became RINGS champion after most of their top talent bounced, Noguiera included.

As for it being “unheard of” that he got fast tracked to the title, again, ridiculous. The two titles in PRIDE had existed all of 26 months at that point. Sapp had fought Noguiera after merely two bouts in PRIDE. Schilt got a title shot before Fedor in spite of losing to Fedor. After Fedor won, Kohsaka’s PRIDE debut was against him. Zulu was a whopping 1-0 for the organization prior to their New Years bout. Meanwhile, Silva faced a guy making his MMA debut (Iwasaki) and a guy making his PRIDE debut (Kanehara).

So yeah, you know what? This “Fedor was an established elite fighter and his rise was unique” isn’t supported by, like, any facts whatsoever.

By: Jeremy (not that Jeremy)

Jeremy (not that Jeremy) — Sun, 29 Jun 2008 02:33:29 +0000

If UFC felt that they could do significant damage to Strikeforce by signing away one of their fighters, then they would pay whatever it took, particularly if it was pretty much guaranteed to cost less than 100k per fight.

However, I don’t expect that Strikeforce is riding on any one fighter. They have a solid regional brand, and I don’t think that name brand fighters are a key to their continuing survival.