And glad to see that the NSAC is starting to institute their tougher standards.

I don’t want to see MMA realizing the tragedies like those of WWE and professional wrestling in the last 5-10 years. It will do nothing short of completely vilify and marginalize the sport if we have guys dropping dead in their mid-40s.

This further highlights the inadequacy of the system in Japan. It also diminishes the accomplishments of fighters over there because anyone could come under suspicions even if they are legit. That’s too bad.

Regarding, UFC and their testing standard, I absolutely, positively disagree that they deserve the benefit of the doubt. And also with your statement that “it’s not cheating if take steroids and don’t test positive”.

The fact that current and former UFC fighters like Sherk, Baroni, Royce, Belfort, Barnett, Sylvia, Bonnar and Franca have gotten caught — which again puts all their previous positive tests in a much different light — and the fact that that not every fighter on every card is actually tested.

Notice the high correlation in the positive steroid tests and those of headline or title fights? We know for a fact that the only fighters that are *always* tested are the headliners and title matches. This should lead you see that maybe something is there.

We all know for a FACT that you can cycle steroids to pass these tests. And insiders to the sport — people who know way more than the two of us — attest to this fact and the fact that UFC fighters juice and don’t get caught.

Again, look at cycling and Olympic sports. They perform more extensive testing and you’d have to be an idiot not to realize there’s a steroid problem in those sports, which prove that testing does not mean a clean athletes by any stretch of the imagination.

Certainly, this looks to me to be way more damning than mere mindless conjecture (by the both of us) regarding physiques of overseas fighters coming over from Japan.

Some Pride fighters (I’m not accusing all here) have noticeable differences in physical muscle definition visually. Their ability seems to drop off. Their ferocity seems to drop off. They are more prone to injuries over here. They seem to have problems making weight (Filho).

Conclusion: I believe they were juicing and had to get off it. Do I have proof? No, but I’m making a educated guess based on these circumstantial evidence. Can we prove one way or another? No.

Retort 1: But Pride fighters are champs!
However, this does NOT disprove that some fighters were juicing. We could conclude that these current champs (a) improved or (b) were not able to get over the hump of fighting juiced up fighters.

Let me be clear. Just because some Pride fighters juice does not mean that I am accusing all Pride fighters of juicing or that they suck because they juice. That’s a fallacy that causes so many Pride fans to get up in arms about it. Fedor, Rampage, Anderson Silva, Nogueira may or may not have juiced. They physically look the same. Their performance have stayed the same. Conclusion: They probably did not juice. Can we prove it one way or another? No.

Now, why do I not accuse UFC fighters of juicing? There are no circumstantial evidence of that in videos, performance, or any linking evidence. Can we prove that they did not juice? Yes! They pass the drug test!

If Pride had instituted a drug test by an impartial third party, then I’d have to throw all circumstantial evidence out and admit that even with my bias, I have to admit that they have been proven to be innocent. But there was and still no such test in place.

When you pass the best testing system currently available, then you have to give them the benefit of the doubt. When a person is proven innocent in front of a jury, then he’s innocent. You may still suspect he’s guilty, but he deserves the benefit of the doubt. That’s the difference. You can’t accuse someone of murder when he’s proven to be innocent.

I believe the UFC, EliteXC, Strikeforce fighters deserve that benefit if they take the test and pass it, regardless of how inadequate you feel the testing system is.

It just gets boring hearing you mindlessly throw around steroid accusations about overseas fighters, when at the same time you spout nonsense about how “it’s not cheating if take steroids but don’t test positive” and your refusal to apply the same standards to UFC fighters in general.

And all I did was throw a mindless accusation back at you. If you can throw around accusations of steroid abuse with proof, so can I.

I have never said anything about proof. I merely stated that I noticed a great difference in his physique. Classic GKH.

Description of Straw Man

This sort of “reasoning” is fallacious because attacking a distorted version of a position simply does not constitute an attack on the position itself. One might as well expect an attack on a poor drawing of a person to hurt the person.

It’s amazing how you steer a comment like me comparing Thompson’s physiques (which any blind man can see) to your accusation of UFC fighters juicinig? Who’s on a wild tangent now? GKH, you’re no different than the Sherdog fanboys. You like to flame, you like to call names, and you lash out at comments you don’t like but never truly address the original premise.

This is a thread with you involved:

Me: Look at the difference in his physique!
GKH: Machida is a juicer! You UFC fanboy! Testing doesn’t mean shit! Anyone with a brain can pass the NSAC testing!

See how you like to steer comments away from something and then attack something else to draw attention away from it? This what they call a “straw man.”

Testing does not mean shit. As Gaijin mentioned previously, any time a fighter like Sherk tests positive, it puts into question ALL of previous negative tests.

Just because you refuse to acknowledge that the current system of testing is merely an intelligence test does not make it untrue.

And, guess what? “Visual evidence” without actual proof is not “reasoning”. It’s called “conjecture”.

And, again, you can keep ignoring this if you want, but a trusted insider like Dave Meltzer coming out and saying that a shitload of UFC fighters juice is way more convincing to me that your 45 Huddle-like “visual evidence”, which could just as easily be caused by eating too many Krispy Kremes.

And, again, just so you don’t keep going off on wild tangents, I’m pointing out your hypocrisy and UFC fanboyism here, not your stance that the Japanese MMA scene had a steroid problem. You simply have not been applying the same “reasoning” (if you can call it that) to UFC fighters as you do with PRIDE fighters, even though more UFC fighters have tested positive for steroids.