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	<title>Comments on: Thursday night notes (1/10/08)</title>
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		<title>By: Dave2</title>
		<link>http://www.fightopinion.com/2008/01/10/thursday-night-notes-11008/comment-page-1/#comment-46241</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2008 03:11:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fightopinion.com/2008/01/10/thursday-night-notes-11008/#comment-46241</guid>
		<description>Also let me make it clear that I&#039;m not Pro-Mark Cuban or anything. Hopefully I don&#039;t give off that impression. Cuban has his positives but in fact I dislike Mark Cuban, in part because of his egoism and his so-called &quot;copyright activism&quot;. He&#039;s also an &quot;objectivist.&quot; :D Though I do feel that competition is good for the sport and that&#039;s why I&#039;d like to see real competition spring up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also let me make it clear that I&#8217;m not Pro-Mark Cuban or anything. Hopefully I don&#8217;t give off that impression. Cuban has his positives but in fact I dislike Mark Cuban, in part because of his egoism and his so-called &#8220;copyright activism&#8221;. He&#8217;s also an &#8220;objectivist.&#8221; <img src='http://www.fightopinion.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' />  Though I do feel that competition is good for the sport and that&#8217;s why I&#8217;d like to see real competition spring up.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave2</title>
		<link>http://www.fightopinion.com/2008/01/10/thursday-night-notes-11008/comment-page-1/#comment-46240</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2008 02:47:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fightopinion.com/2008/01/10/thursday-night-notes-11008/#comment-46240</guid>
		<description>Michaelthebox: Of course they aren&#039;t enough. As for Ayre, he isn&#039;t that wealthy actually. In early 2007, he lost about half a billion dollars in personal wealth because the US government has cracked down on online gambling. He was a billionaire but his net worth has been at somewhere between $400-600 million for a year now. 

Mark Cuban on the other hand has a net worth of $2.8 billion, worth more than both the Fertittas combined ($1.3 billion each). It&#039;s also fair to say that Cuban is a lot more competent than Ayre and seems a lot more serious about promoting MMA. Ayre only really cared about selling the bodog empire brand name. 

Cuban is also playing it smart. He&#039;s not rushing to compete head-on with the UFC. We&#039;ve seen what happened with Bodog when they had the Fedor x Lindland disaster. Fedor costed Bodog seven figures but they brought in like 14,000 PPV buys. Cuban is building up HDNet Fights slowly. 

Just because the UFC has 90% of the market share or whatever they have in American MMA, doesn&#039;t mean that Cuban&#039;s promotion can&#039;t compete with them in the future. I bring up the examples of WWF in pro wrestling and Nintendo in video games. Both businesses had a huge market share in their industry (Nintendo for one had 95% of the console gaming). Both brands were synonymous with the type of product they sold (pro wrestling and video games). But then both businesses got dethroned for a period of time as seen with WCW beating out WWE for 2 years and Nintendo being absolutely mauled by Sony for over a decade. Only recently has Nintendo made a comeback and even then, their Wii system has a 43% market share compared to the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3. I don&#039;t know about you but going from 95+% market share in the late 80s to 43% in 2007/2008 is huge. 

It shouldn&#039;t be assumed that the UFC is invisible just because their brand = MMA in North America right now. Nintendo&#039;s brand was (and still is) synonymous with video games but look how much things have changed in that industry. Whose to say that the MMA industry won&#039;t have their own Sega, Sony or Microsoft to compete with their &quot;Nintendo&quot; (the UFC)?  Why is it automatically assumed that the UFC will coast along easily without competitive threat just because they were the first brand to break out in American MMA?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michaelthebox: Of course they aren&#8217;t enough. As for Ayre, he isn&#8217;t that wealthy actually. In early 2007, he lost about half a billion dollars in personal wealth because the US government has cracked down on online gambling. He was a billionaire but his net worth has been at somewhere between $400-600 million for a year now. </p>
<p>Mark Cuban on the other hand has a net worth of $2.8 billion, worth more than both the Fertittas combined ($1.3 billion each). It&#8217;s also fair to say that Cuban is a lot more competent than Ayre and seems a lot more serious about promoting MMA. Ayre only really cared about selling the bodog empire brand name. </p>
<p>Cuban is also playing it smart. He&#8217;s not rushing to compete head-on with the UFC. We&#8217;ve seen what happened with Bodog when they had the Fedor x Lindland disaster. Fedor costed Bodog seven figures but they brought in like 14,000 PPV buys. Cuban is building up HDNet Fights slowly. </p>
<p>Just because the UFC has 90% of the market share or whatever they have in American MMA, doesn&#8217;t mean that Cuban&#8217;s promotion can&#8217;t compete with them in the future. I bring up the examples of WWF in pro wrestling and Nintendo in video games. Both businesses had a huge market share in their industry (Nintendo for one had 95% of the console gaming). Both brands were synonymous with the type of product they sold (pro wrestling and video games). But then both businesses got dethroned for a period of time as seen with WCW beating out WWE for 2 years and Nintendo being absolutely mauled by Sony for over a decade. Only recently has Nintendo made a comeback and even then, their Wii system has a 43% market share compared to the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3. I don&#8217;t know about you but going from 95+% market share in the late 80s to 43% in 2007/2008 is huge. </p>
<p>It shouldn&#8217;t be assumed that the UFC is invisible just because their brand = MMA in North America right now. Nintendo&#8217;s brand was (and still is) synonymous with video games but look how much things have changed in that industry. Whose to say that the MMA industry won&#8217;t have their own Sega, Sony or Microsoft to compete with their &#8220;Nintendo&#8221; (the UFC)?  Why is it automatically assumed that the UFC will coast along easily without competitive threat just because they were the first brand to break out in American MMA?</p>
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		<title>By: John Doe</title>
		<link>http://www.fightopinion.com/2008/01/10/thursday-night-notes-11008/comment-page-1/#comment-46239</link>
		<dc:creator>John Doe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2008 01:04:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fightopinion.com/2008/01/10/thursday-night-notes-11008/#comment-46239</guid>
		<description>Zach, do you have more names of old Pride staff ? Like Shinoda or something ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zach, do you have more names of old Pride staff ? Like Shinoda or something ?</p>
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		<title>By: Michaelthebox</title>
		<link>http://www.fightopinion.com/2008/01/10/thursday-night-notes-11008/comment-page-1/#comment-46238</link>
		<dc:creator>Michaelthebox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 23:22:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fightopinion.com/2008/01/10/thursday-night-notes-11008/#comment-46238</guid>
		<description>Dave2: wealth and connections aren&#039;t enough to guarantee competition, Ayre is rich and BodogFight has scaled back massively.  While Cuban could develop a strong, self-sustaining promotion, I don&#039;t think he&#039;ll be able to challenge the UFC head-on unless the UFC&#039;s growth stagnates badly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave2: wealth and connections aren&#8217;t enough to guarantee competition, Ayre is rich and BodogFight has scaled back massively.  While Cuban could develop a strong, self-sustaining promotion, I don&#8217;t think he&#8217;ll be able to challenge the UFC head-on unless the UFC&#8217;s growth stagnates badly.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave2</title>
		<link>http://www.fightopinion.com/2008/01/10/thursday-night-notes-11008/comment-page-1/#comment-46237</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 17:22:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fightopinion.com/2008/01/10/thursday-night-notes-11008/#comment-46237</guid>
		<description>There is room for competition in the MMA market. The WWF brand was synonymous with pro wrestling for a time too and look what happened with WCW over-taking them for 2 years. The WCW collapse came out via poor management of course but the WCW model shows that it is possible to compete with an established brand. Heck why not look at video games? Everyone still uses the term &quot;playing Nintendo&quot; generically to refer to playing video games. But then look at how well Sega competed against Nintendo in the 16-bit era (even if they lost worldwide, they gave Nintendo a run for their money in America and Europe) and how well Sony&#039;s playstation 1 and 2 competed against Nintendo&#039;s 64 and Game Cube system. Just because you are the &quot;default&quot; brand with a huge market share, doesn&#039;t mean that you are clear from a competitive threat in the future.

You could also look at the case of PRIDE. PRIDE was the #1 MMA promotion internationally and Japan was the Mecca of MMA. Great Mainstream free-to-air network television ratings (there&#039;s no money to be made in PPV in Japan so free-to-air TV is where it&#039;s at over there), poaching international talent from around the world (including UFC and America in general) and drawing impressive live gates. And then a Yakuza scandal changed all that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is room for competition in the MMA market. The WWF brand was synonymous with pro wrestling for a time too and look what happened with WCW over-taking them for 2 years. The WCW collapse came out via poor management of course but the WCW model shows that it is possible to compete with an established brand. Heck why not look at video games? Everyone still uses the term &#8220;playing Nintendo&#8221; generically to refer to playing video games. But then look at how well Sega competed against Nintendo in the 16-bit era (even if they lost worldwide, they gave Nintendo a run for their money in America and Europe) and how well Sony&#8217;s playstation 1 and 2 competed against Nintendo&#8217;s 64 and Game Cube system. Just because you are the &#8220;default&#8221; brand with a huge market share, doesn&#8217;t mean that you are clear from a competitive threat in the future.</p>
<p>You could also look at the case of PRIDE. PRIDE was the #1 MMA promotion internationally and Japan was the Mecca of MMA. Great Mainstream free-to-air network television ratings (there&#8217;s no money to be made in PPV in Japan so free-to-air TV is where it&#8217;s at over there), poaching international talent from around the world (including UFC and America in general) and drawing impressive live gates. And then a Yakuza scandal changed all that.</p>
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		<title>By: 45 Huddle</title>
		<link>http://www.fightopinion.com/2008/01/10/thursday-night-notes-11008/comment-page-1/#comment-46236</link>
		<dc:creator>45 Huddle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 16:39:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fightopinion.com/2008/01/10/thursday-night-notes-11008/#comment-46236</guid>
		<description>I was referring to when Zuffa purchased the company.

Unless some idiot puts millions into the IFL, it will be gone before the end of 2008.  I think EliteXC will still be in business by the end of the year, but it will be interesting to see how they are doing.  First, they need to minimize their internet website.  I don&#039;t care what type of goals they have for the future, that thing is just eating cash up, and really isn&#039;t gaining any steam in the MMA community.  There is only so much money to go around, and people are more willing to spend that on a UFC PPV (which you can see on your TV) compared to a smaller show telecast being streamed on your PC.

Additionally, they have to find a way to make money with the PPV market.  This is their key.  Without it, they are either a minor league feeder system to the UFC, or just waiting out their time to go out of business.  Potentially both.

With HDNet, it is still going to be an uphill battle.  The UFC IS MMA in North America.  That is the view of the general public.  HDNet could have a lot of fighting on their channel, but to break that cycle is going to take a miracle.  Even a Couture/Fedor or Mayweather MMA fight won&#039;t break that.  It might give them some good revenues for a PPV or Two, but to the casual fan, if they want to see the best, it is still a UFC PPV to see it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was referring to when Zuffa purchased the company.</p>
<p>Unless some idiot puts millions into the IFL, it will be gone before the end of 2008.  I think EliteXC will still be in business by the end of the year, but it will be interesting to see how they are doing.  First, they need to minimize their internet website.  I don&#8217;t care what type of goals they have for the future, that thing is just eating cash up, and really isn&#8217;t gaining any steam in the MMA community.  There is only so much money to go around, and people are more willing to spend that on a UFC PPV (which you can see on your TV) compared to a smaller show telecast being streamed on your PC.</p>
<p>Additionally, they have to find a way to make money with the PPV market.  This is their key.  Without it, they are either a minor league feeder system to the UFC, or just waiting out their time to go out of business.  Potentially both.</p>
<p>With HDNet, it is still going to be an uphill battle.  The UFC IS MMA in North America.  That is the view of the general public.  HDNet could have a lot of fighting on their channel, but to break that cycle is going to take a miracle.  Even a Couture/Fedor or Mayweather MMA fight won&#8217;t break that.  It might give them some good revenues for a PPV or Two, but to the casual fan, if they want to see the best, it is still a UFC PPV to see it.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave2</title>
		<link>http://www.fightopinion.com/2008/01/10/thursday-night-notes-11008/comment-page-1/#comment-46235</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 14:59:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fightopinion.com/2008/01/10/thursday-night-notes-11008/#comment-46235</guid>
		<description>Huddle, when the UFC first started out they didn&#039;t have 5 to 6 shows a year. :D

But I don&#039;t think that ProElite is going to be successful either. They are a lot more financially stable than the IFL (which isn&#039;t saying much) and ProElite will survive longer. But like I said, they are losing a lot of money and their stock is going down. Mark Cuban on the other hand I think will eventually emerge as UFC&#039;s competition in America. Dana White can say what he wants about eating billionaires for breakfast but Cuban and his resources and connections is no joke. The problem with HDNet Fights is that it&#039;s on HDNet, which apparently only has 9 million subscribers (and even that might be an inflated number) whereas Showtime has 15 mil and HBO has 30 mil.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Huddle, when the UFC first started out they didn&#8217;t have 5 to 6 shows a year. <img src='http://www.fightopinion.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>But I don&#8217;t think that ProElite is going to be successful either. They are a lot more financially stable than the IFL (which isn&#8217;t saying much) and ProElite will survive longer. But like I said, they are losing a lot of money and their stock is going down. Mark Cuban on the other hand I think will eventually emerge as UFC&#8217;s competition in America. Dana White can say what he wants about eating billionaires for breakfast but Cuban and his resources and connections is no joke. The problem with HDNet Fights is that it&#8217;s on HDNet, which apparently only has 9 million subscribers (and even that might be an inflated number) whereas Showtime has 15 mil and HBO has 30 mil.</p>
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		<title>By: 45 Huddle</title>
		<link>http://www.fightopinion.com/2008/01/10/thursday-night-notes-11008/comment-page-1/#comment-46234</link>
		<dc:creator>45 Huddle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 12:08:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fightopinion.com/2008/01/10/thursday-night-notes-11008/#comment-46234</guid>
		<description>I think Showtime&#039;s level of happiness with EliteXC has little to do with them keeping the show at this time.

EliteXC is currently losing a lot of money.  At their current pace, it will cost Showtime a good amount of money per year to subsidiaze the company and make it work.  Showtime does it with boxing, but do they have the budget to do so for both boxing &amp; MMA with only 15 Million Subscribers?  My initial thoughts are no.

Either way, that current business model does not allow for enough shows per year to really make it work.  The UFC use to run 5 to 6 shows per year, and it just isn&#039;t enough at that low level. (I&#039;m not counting the lesser shows, because they really don&#039;t do much to attract fans).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Showtime&#8217;s level of happiness with EliteXC has little to do with them keeping the show at this time.</p>
<p>EliteXC is currently losing a lot of money.  At their current pace, it will cost Showtime a good amount of money per year to subsidiaze the company and make it work.  Showtime does it with boxing, but do they have the budget to do so for both boxing &amp; MMA with only 15 Million Subscribers?  My initial thoughts are no.</p>
<p>Either way, that current business model does not allow for enough shows per year to really make it work.  The UFC use to run 5 to 6 shows per year, and it just isn&#8217;t enough at that low level. (I&#8217;m not counting the lesser shows, because they really don&#8217;t do much to attract fans).</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.fightopinion.com/2008/01/10/thursday-night-notes-11008/comment-page-1/#comment-46233</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 09:35:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fightopinion.com/2008/01/10/thursday-night-notes-11008/#comment-46233</guid>
		<description>Speculation Arnold is like Stockgaucho</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speculation Arnold is like Stockgaucho</p>
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		<title>By: Ivan Trembow</title>
		<link>http://www.fightopinion.com/2008/01/10/thursday-night-notes-11008/comment-page-1/#comment-46232</link>
		<dc:creator>Ivan Trembow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 06:30:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fightopinion.com/2008/01/10/thursday-night-notes-11008/#comment-46232</guid>
		<description>Regarding Gary Shaw&#039;s comments in that Fox Sports interview, maybe he&#039;d more credibility to talk about things like that (or anything else MMA-related) if he weren&#039;t booking &quot;Kimbo vs. Tank&quot; main events.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding Gary Shaw&#8217;s comments in that Fox Sports interview, maybe he&#8217;d more credibility to talk about things like that (or anything else MMA-related) if he weren&#8217;t booking &#8220;Kimbo vs. Tank&#8221; main events.</p>
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