Has UFC ever used “undisputed” in reference to their titles?

The point of the side tangent was regarding to Fedor being dropped from #1 HW, which I was arguing that there are 2 #1 spots to consider: public opinion and the ‘true’ champion. I was simply saying that if one regards Fedor as the ‘true’ champion (which some in the past have argued as they traced the UFC HW title lineage to when Randy Couture left after the contract dispute switching hands to Fedor eventually, making him the ‘unified’ champion of the time) then you can’t simply strip him even if he was fighting the Zulus of the world from now to eternity, just like Floyd Patterson did not lose the lineal HW title just because his management preferred taking a path of lesser resistance than Sonny Liston and the other top contenders who were under the IBC until Patterson was forced to take on Liston in 1962 after winning back the title from Ingemar Johansson. In the court of public opinion, Liston may have been higher than Patterson, but purely from a title lineage standpoint, Patterson was the champion and Liston was the #1 contender.

I’m thinking maybe they used it when there was an interim titleholder who went up against the existing titleholder, but they don’t typically throw it around.

So you’re saying that the WEC belt and the UFC belt are equal?

I’m saying that, by themselves, they are not an ‘undisputed’ claim to being a division champion. In Boxing, you aren’t the ‘undisputed’ champion unless you (a) beat the current one or (b) unify the belts. The WBC Junior Welterweight champion, Junior Witter, for example, isn’t the ‘undisputed’ Junior Welterweight champion as Ricky Hatton beat the last ‘man’ of the division, Kostya Tszyu, and is still fighting (on and off) in the weight class. Given that you (likely) won’t see the UFC and Elite XC groups (for example) unifying belts, you can’t determine on the face value who is truly the ‘undisputed’ champion since all the claimants haven’t been claimed.

You can claim that Anderson Silva is the ‘undisputed’ Middleweight champion as he’s the champion of the most prestigious organization, but it’d simply be a matter of opinion and not a true claim like the aforementioned Hatton has to the lineal Junior Welterweight title since he hasn’t beat the top guys in the other organizations (such as Akiyama) to prove himself the king of the heap.

To me that’s always been a complete sideline for true sport geeks in soccer etc. I regard it as a cheap trick because you end up with countries like Belgium holding a lineal world championship because some other country sent their B squad for a scrimmage.

The reason that we hold tournaments and title fights is that we’re attempting to determine first of all who is actually worthy of holding the championship based on their recent history. Cans can’t win the championship, and we don’t hold other fights to that same standard in terms of expectation that we hold a title fight to. We can forgive a guy for coming in a little out of shape against some guy that he should beat easily as long as he does it. If you show up like that for a national main event…even if you win you’re going to get detractors for that kind of stunt.

I think that’s the real reason that Chuck has fallen so quickly from grace. It had started before his recent loss. It started the second that he hit the mat against Rampage. He didn’t come ready to fight, he didn’t act like a champion, and he didn’t hold up the kind of standard that we expect of a championship calibre fighter in a championship fight.

“True” championship? Couture is the only HWT champ in a major MMA org. Obviously when we’re talking about Fedor being #1, it’s public opinion.

I see the organizational belts as the equivalent of the IBF, WBA, WBC, WBO, etc. Sure, the IBF champion can also be the lineal champion, but the lineal claim is a separate claim entirely than the organizational title. Just because Randy Couture holds an organizational belt does not mean he’s the lineal champion.

“True” championship? Couture is the only HWT champ in a major MMA org. Obviously when we’re talking about Fedor being #1, it’s public opinion.

“I see your truuueee cooollooorrsss shiiining through.”

Because I think Hendo or Filho could *possibly* be better Anderson? Until he beats them, or they lose stock, then I couldn’t sit here and say that without a doubt Anderson Silva is the greatest MW in the world, period, bar none, end of story. I think he is, and he looks like he is. But there’s some doubt, which is why they fight, and that’s why I enjoy watching them fight.

I see your truuueee cooollooorrsss shiiining through.

You don’t have to beat the man to be the man, you just have to beat everyone he’s beat and take it a step further.

That’s only true insofar as public opinion, not in terms of the true championship (if there is one). Just because Sonny Liston crushed most of the late 50s and early 60s HW scene while Floyd Patterson took on (mainly) soft touches and Ingemar Johansson as champion doesn’t mean Patterson wasn’t the champ. He may have been ducking Liston until 1962, but he was still ‘the man’ and the best Liston could claim until his first round KO was being the ‘peoples champion’, not the true champion.